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Old 23rd October 2012, 06:55 PM   #1
PeaceCrusader
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The prophecies of Ama

20121024.1135

We can discuss here the prophecies of the spirit of Ama that have happened, are happening, or conceived to have not happened at all.

Ama is the spirit who we (plural) cannot see or touch but can hear and talk to Him in our sessions with Him. Since there is a sound, we can record on audio tape our sessions.

The physical body that He uses is that of the blind 73-year-old woman Maria Liwayway Alvaran, also known as Ka Apaz, of Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 07:00 PM   #2
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Oh this should be good.

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Old 23rd October 2012, 07:07 PM   #3
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Can we have an example of one such prophecy?
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Old 23rd October 2012, 07:13 PM   #4
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As an example, here is 100 pages' worth of discussion of Ama's prediction that the 2012 Summer Olympics would not be held because a very short World War III would happen before or during, killing 2/3 (or so) of the world population. I don't recall either of those happening, do you?

And just to short-circuit complaints, note that PeaceCrusader will manually timestamp each of his posts, and if he quotes someone, will manually add the username and post number as well. He will not answer any questions about this.

He (singular) will also note that we (plural) is plural every time he (singular) uses the word.

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Old 23rd October 2012, 07:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can we have an example of one such prophecy?

Oh come on. The poor guy just got here and already you are asking him such a difficult question.

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Old 23rd October 2012, 07:24 PM   #6
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Next time you talk to Ama you tell him that he still owes me $500 over the Cubs blowing it in 2003
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Old 23rd October 2012, 07:35 PM   #7
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I'd like to hear PeaceCrusader explain why he lied to the members of this forum when he said that he would denounce Ka Apaz/"Ama" as a false prophet if the London Olympic Games prophecy failed, why he lied again after that failure saying he would stop discussing Ama's prophecies, and why after that debacle we should take anything else that he or Ama says seriously.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
20121024.1135

We can discuss here the prophecies of the spirit of Ama that have happened, are happening, or conceived to have not happened at all.
There you go. Everything that you say that this stupid old crone supposedly said is false prophesy, and none of it has ever happened, including WWIII, your beautiful free house, ten wives, schools up the road and the Zoo that everyone could visit (providing that all the animals were kept inside for three days and nights after the war started.

7 Billion people are still alive that you wished dead.


Norm

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Old 23rd October 2012, 08:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can we have an example of one such prophecy?
Abaddon has already compiled a sample list here.

I'll reprint it for the readers of this thread.

Originally Posted by abaddon
OK. There is a sinister attempt going on right here and now to disavow what was previously espoused, by dint of a divide and conquer methodology.

PC fervently hopes that all will forget the failures of all previous threads by focussing on the minutia of the current point of discussion.

I cry foul. When each of the crackpot theories is presented in toto, one might wonder about the mindset, but it is easy to present in teeny weeny bits, and have everyone arguing about aspects of the minutiae.

Well, blow that. When one considers the body of work as a whole, one will find a whole pile.

Without further ado, here is a list of claims(with links to the OP's).

Consider them well.

This is from approx the first 25% of the first 2012 thread, yet has not reached the worst claims yet.

I could continue...maybe...

1. China will occupy the Philippines, also

2. There's going to be three eyed babies

3. Humans give birth to cats, cats give birth to humans.

4. Judge Floro of the Philippines consults three dwarves.

5. The London Olympics will be cancelled due to the outbreak of WWIII (and onwards throughout that thread)

6. WWIII will cancel the London Olympics and 2/3 of the human population will perish.

7. Specific dates for the birth and death of jebus have been determined by PC

8. If the Olympic prophecy fails, PC will repudiate the false prophet, yet didn't when the failure came
9. China has amassed an army 200 million strong
10. WWIII will break out on a Wednesday before or during the London Olympics.
11.
12. It's gonna be worldwide nuclear war (bet the 200m chinese troops won't be pleased)
13. China is firing lasers at US sattelites to disable them.
14. The I-Ching and Nostradamus confirm WWIII
15. This is all straight from the holey spook.
16. 3 days food is sufficient to survive nuclear war
17. Although 2/3 of the population will perish, the ratio of men to women afterwards will be 1 to 10. Every chap gets a harem.
18. Nuclear winter will last only three days and three nights.
19. After the nuclear holocaust, houses will have endured intact and the survivors can pick which they like (big enough for your 10 merry widows)

20. After nukes barter, no currency. Did I mention this supposedly all happened last July?
21. Jebus: born 33BC, died 1 BC, because...well why not? Makes as much sense as anything else.
22. First mention of St. Evangeline and Angeline Imden.We shall be returning to that odd diversion later.
23. Draught excluders and tape are all you need to survive nuclear holocaust.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 09:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
I'd like to hear PeaceCrusader explain why he lied to the members of this forum when he said that he would denounce Ka Apaz/"Ama" as a false prophet if the London Olympic Games prophecy failed, why he lied again after that failure saying he would stop discussing Ama's prophecies, and why after that debacle we should take anything else that he or Ama says seriously.
Yes please

This forum needs a forced push option when people continue to avoid answers in order to start new threads
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Old 23rd October 2012, 09:27 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
This forum needs a forced push option when people continue to avoid answers in order to start new threads
In the absence of such an option, I've reported this thread to the mods.

I will not be participating further in this discussion. I've had quite enough of this "Ama" nonsense, thankyouverymuch.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 09:35 PM   #12
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I am making a prediction that PC won't be visiting this thread very often, if at all.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 09:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Abaddon has already compiled a sample list here.

I'll reprint it for the readers of this thread.
Oh, goodness.

What happened to prophecy #11?
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Old 23rd October 2012, 10:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, goodness.

What happened to prophecy #11?
Prophecy eleven was that there would be no prophecy eleven. Prophecy eleven divided by zero and imploded.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 10:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
20121024.1135

We can discuss here the prophecies of the spirit of Ama that have happened, are happening, or conceived to have not happened at all.

Ama is the spirit who we (plural) cannot see or touch but can hear and talk to Him in our sessions with Him. Since there is a sound, we can record on audio tape our sessions.

The physical body that He uses is that of the blind 73-year-old woman Maria Liwayway Alvaran, also known as Ka Apaz, of Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines.
http://www.crap.fi/images/archive/7254.gif
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Old 23rd October 2012, 11:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Astreja View Post
In the absence of such an option, I've reported this thread to the mods.

I will not be participating further in this discussion. I've had quite enough of this "Ama" nonsense, thankyouverymuch.

As frustrating as it can be, I do enjoy the threads in some weird perverse way. I sometimes feel a bit guilty about it though.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 11:45 PM   #17
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Hi, PC.
As you see, no-one here believes Maria Liwayway Alvaran channels any spirit at all.
Just out of curiosity, could you post up any articles about her that you've seen in the press?
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Old 24th October 2012, 02:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Abaddon has already compiled a sample list here.

I'll reprint it for the readers of this thread.

@Foster Zygote, #9

Thank you, Foster Zygote, for posting the list of prophecies of Ama prepared by abaddon. The list was posted at the thread “The crucifixion of Jesus”. The mod may not like that we go off-topic in that thread so I opened this new one where we can discuss the topic properly.

1. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.
2. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.
3. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.
4. Not Ama’s prophecy. I mentioned this before. Judge Floro consults dwarves. Their names are Luis, Armand, and Angel. I consult a spirit who we (plural) call Ama, the Filipino word for God the Father when capitalized. I wish to emphasize that the experience of talking to a spirit, tape recorded, is not exclusive to me. Anyone present may talk to Him that is why I say "we (plural)".
5. Ama’s prophecy. Failed. Ama mentioned that the world war would start from the Philippines before (or during) the 2012 Olympic Games (OG) in London on a Wednesday. I gave my interpretations. The OG successfully ended on 08-12 but the tensions at the Spratly Islands remain.
6. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.
7. Ama’s revelations which I first heard in 1983 – May 23 birth and August 17 crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. The crucifixion is being discussed in this Religion and Philosophy forum. Afterwards, the birth will be discussed.
I found the August 17 crucifixion true and correct in my study from 1999 to 2003. The results are in http://aristean.org/crucifyidx.htm .
I also found the May 23 birth true and correct in my study from 2004 to 2006. The results are in http://aristean.org/birthmay23.htm .
8. I said this. I also said to pick up what will be good for your soul and discard what is evil. Just because Ama was wrong, do I just discard about Him altogether? No, I will not.
9. Not Ama’s prophecy. I picked out this number from the Holy Bible, Revelation 9:16. It is only now that this can be realized. Only China has this capacity.
10. Ama’s prophecy. Failed. Same as #5.

To be continued.

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Old 24th October 2012, 04:26 AM   #19
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Note the lack of successufl prophesies.
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Old 24th October 2012, 04:49 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
I'd like to hear PeaceCrusader explain why he lied to the members of this forum when he said that he would denounce Ka Apaz/"Ama" as a false prophet if the London Olympic Games prophecy failed, why he lied again after that failure saying he would stop discussing Ama's prophecies, and why after that debacle we should take anything else that he or Ama says seriously.
...this...
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Old 24th October 2012, 05:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Note the lack of successufl prophesies.
But the one's that offer no time deadline can be counted as successes because, of course, they will happen at some point in the future. So we can dismiss trivialities like the failure of WWIII to disrupt the 2012 Olympic Games and focus on the successes such as the assurance that a cat will give birth to a human baby, which we know is true because it hasn't happened yet.
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Old 24th October 2012, 05:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by peacecrusader View Post
1. Ama’s prophecies - failed

eot
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Old 24th October 2012, 05:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
@Foster Zygote, #9

Thank you, Foster Zygote, for posting the list of prophecies of Ama prepared by abaddon. The list was posted at the thread “The crucifixion of Jesus”. The mod may not like that we go off-topic in that thread so I opened this new one where we can discuss the topic properly.
As I've already explained, your continual citation of Alvaran in support of your claims in the Crucifixion thread makes her past prophetic failures very much on-topic as they establishe her lack of reliability as a source.

Quote:
1. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.

2. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.

3. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled.

4. Ama’s prophecy. Failed. Ama mentioned that the world war would start from the Philippines before (or during) the 2012 Olympic Games (OG) in London on a Wednesday. I gave my interpretations. The OG successfully ended on 08-12 but the tensions at the Spratly Islands remain.

4a. Ama’s prophecy. Not yet fulfilled. [Actually, this is a failed prophecy. WWIII did not start during the Olympic Games. The 2/3 dead figure related to the prediction that WWIII would have started months ago.]
Above we have only four actual prophetic statements.

The first three are temporally indefinite. You will cling to them as though they are as good as proved because you can always rely on them to be impossible to disprove. If you lived a thousand years you could still declare that they are simply, as yet, unfulfilled. Prophecies of this nature are useless because it is impossible to test them to establish the reliability of the prophet. However false the prophecy may be, its open-ended nature allows the false prophet to simply claim that it will happen some time in the future.

The fourth prophecy is an unmitigated failure and is all we need to establish Alvaran as a false prophet.


Quote:
Just because Ama was wrong, do I just discard about Him altogether? No, I will not.
Then you lied. You said, "If the prophecy fails, then He must be a false god, an impostor". The prophecy did fail. Even the Bible, which you cite as the authoritative word of God, tells you this:
Quote:
Deuteronomy 18:21-22 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a word that the Lord has not spoken?’ If a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it.
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Old 24th October 2012, 06:02 AM   #24
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I always thought believers were forbidden by scripture from consulting with spirits, mediums, seers or those that channel the dead.

Leviticus 19:31
'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.'

Leviticus 20:27
"Men and women among you who act as mediums or psychics must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense."

Deuteronomy 18:10-13
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

1 Chronicles 10:13-14
Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

2 Chronicles 33:6
He [King Manasseh] sacrificed his sons in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger.

Isaiah 8:19
When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
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Old 24th October 2012, 06:47 AM   #25
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A good point.
Why do you give a second thought to the utterances of someone who claims to offer mediumship to a select clientele?
PC, you claim this woman becomes possessed by the spirits of the dead- how do you square this with Christianity?
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Old 24th October 2012, 06:52 AM   #26
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I think the Angela Imden stuff is my favourite. It's hard to choose from such a rich selection though.
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:13 AM   #27
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Ama's prophecies suck, IMO.
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
20121024.1135

We can discuss here the prophecies of the spirit of Ama that have happened, are happening, or conceived to have not happened at all.


What's to discuss?

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
20120719.2110

@Marcus, #1978

Yes, Marcus, I will apologize to all of you once the 2012 Olympic Games start on 07-27 and admit that it was not the Holy Spirit who we talk to.


Games (plural) over.
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:45 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
What's to discuss?


Game over.
Yeah, good luck with that...
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:48 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
I'd like to hear PeaceCrusader explain why he lied to the members of this forum when he said that he would denounce Ka Apaz/"Ama" as a false prophet if the London Olympic Games prophecy failed, why he lied again after that failure saying he would stop discussing Ama's prophecies, and why after that debacle we should take anything else that he or Ama says seriously.
If nothing else, PC has shown us once again that nothing can stand in the way of blind faith. If the complete failure of the Olympic Apocalypse didn't shake him, even after he promised it would, nothing will.
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:58 AM   #31
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You need to have some tme limit on open-ended prophesies, otherwise it's just fishing. Anyone can list a bunch of things that might happen, especially based on projections of current world affairs.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 24th October 2012, 08:42 AM   #32
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
If nothing else, PC has shown us once again that nothing can stand in the way of blind faith. If the complete failure of the Olympic Apocalypse didn't shake him, even after he promised it would, nothing will.
Am I in time to coin the word 'Olympocalypse' and the phrase 'Olympocalyptic Fail'?

I always wanted to coin something.

Last edited by P.J. Denyer; 24th October 2012 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Stupid fingers
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Old 24th October 2012, 08:57 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Am I in time to coin the word 'Olympocalypse' and the phrase 'Olympocalyptic Fail'?

I always wanted to coin something.
With its own musical genre: Olympocalypso! (I wonder how soon Jamaica could host the Games...)
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Old 24th October 2012, 09:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader View Post
20121024.1135

Just please tell me why you encode the date and time of your posts? The information is logged automatically.
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Old 24th October 2012, 09:39 AM   #35
HansMustermann
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Hi, PC.
As you see, no-one here believes Maria Liwayway Alvaran channels any spirit at all.
Just out of curiosity, could you post up any articles about her that you've seen in the press?
Actually, even if I were to believe devoutly in the Bible and believe that that woman actually has a spirit that reveals stuff to her, that's someone with a familiar spirit according to the OT. As such, it's something that the OT God REPEATEDLY warns against consulting (or even letting live) and makes threats even against those consulting them, ranging from turning his face from them and separating them from him (i.e., you're going to Hell, dude) to delivering whole nations to their enemies for practicing and allowing that kind of thing.

(I posted a couple of verses about it in the crucifixion thread, so I'm not gonna spam by repeating them verbatim.)

If I were to believe that the bible is the word of God, then the warnings against seeking those who have a spirit telling them stuff, are also the word of God. The idea that God is sending new official information through exactly the people he told you not to seek, is patently absurd.

Furthermore, God said exactly how he'll send information to the prophets. 'Through a dead person's spirit' is not what he said.

The whole notion is as absurd as, dunno, if mommy warned you not to trust people giving candy from the back of their van, and told you not to take any from them, to accept that one of them is giving you new info from mommy. Why would she do that through exactly the persons she told you to avoid?

If I believed that the Bible is the word of God, and some woman is channelling the spirits of the dead, then actually what I'd think God wants me to do is get her stoned. Well, ok, I'm not religious, but I'll get her some weed if she's ever around here

ETA: dang, Tony99 beat me to it. Just shows I should read the whole thread before jumping in to shoot my mouth.

Last edited by HansMustermann; 24th October 2012 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 24th October 2012, 10:08 AM   #36
pakeha
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To be fair, the Philippines has a rich tradition of mediums and so on;
http://www.artipot.com/articles/3451...hilippines.htm

http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com/...no-boogie-men/
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Old 24th October 2012, 11:06 AM   #37
HansMustermann
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Maybe. But you can use them for other stuff than getting messages from God.
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:01 PM   #38
pakeha
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Absolutely.
Maria Liwayway Alvaran is also a faith healer with over 50 years experience and I've asked repeatedly if she's a psychic surgeon.
Does she have experience in exorcism, lifting of the evil eye, or love cantrips?
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:20 PM   #39
HansMustermann
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Well, it's not the 'ALSO' part that is surrealistic to me.

I mean, in my tasteless example, the guy with the van and the candy bars near a primary school, may also be a respected priest the rest of the time, and great at doing your taxes too. I would see no inherent contradiction or problem if you go to him to book a funeral or have him do your taxes. My problem is strictly with the internally contradictory scenario where a kid would believe that that guy is sent by mommy to give him new rules (like, say, "it's ok to get in a stranger's van for some candy") although he's exactly the person mommy tells him to avoid.

Now move that to adults, and it only baffles me more.

If person X tells you explicitly and in no ambiguous terms to not trust person(s) Y, not have anything to do with Y, and even that he'll kick your ass sky high if you ever have anything with Y. I dunno, maybe you're a soldier and you're strictly forbidden to talk to the press about military stuff. What kind of insanity is required to then believe that exactly an Y is sent to give you new rules from X?

If you were an officer and a soldier shot his mouth to a reporter about classified stuff, would you buy an excuse like, "oh, the reporter said you sent him to tell me it's ok"? You know, instead of getting such a permission through the established channels?
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Old 24th October 2012, 04:24 PM   #40
Akuma Tennou
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Well, it's not the 'ALSO' part that is surrealistic to me.

I mean, in my tasteless example, the guy with the van and the candy bars near a primary school, may also be a respected priest the rest of the time, and great at doing your taxes too. I would see no inherent contradiction or problem if you go to him to book a funeral or have him do your taxes. My problem is strictly with the internally contradictory scenario where a kid would believe that that guy is sent by mommy to give him new rules (like, say, "it's ok to get in a stranger's van for some candy") although he's exactly the person mommy tells him to avoid.

Now move that to adults, and it only baffles me more.

If person X tells you explicitly and in no ambiguous terms to not trust person(s) Y, not have anything to do with Y, and even that he'll kick your ass sky high if you ever have anything with Y. I dunno, maybe you're a soldier and you're strictly forbidden to talk to the press about military stuff. What kind of insanity is required to then believe that exactly an Y is sent to give you new rules from X?

If you were an officer and a soldier shot his mouth to a reporter about classified stuff, would you buy an excuse like, "oh, the reporter said you sent him to tell me it's ok"? You know, instead of getting such a permission through the established channels?
well, he also told that mommy lied and the info provided by the guy in the van proves mommy is perfect (wtf?)
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