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Old 29th October 2012, 07:54 AM   #1
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Jack the Ripper - found

Eduardo Cuitiño, a mathematician from Uruguay claims that Stephen Herbert Appleford, a surgeon from Essex, was the real Jack the Ripper. Cuitiño has used "advanced statistical modeling" to reach his conclusion. Never mind that Cuitiño has never been to London.

I haven't found an English version, but here's the link in Spanish

http://www.elpais.com.uy/121021/pciu...l-destripador/
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Old 29th October 2012, 07:59 AM   #2
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Has anyone kept score, how many Jack the Rippers is that now?
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Old 29th October 2012, 07:59 AM   #3
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I love google translate....

Quote:
Jack the Ripper is still a figure as measured ETHICS as fantasmag? Rich, which is assigned to m? S of 20 identities. Based ac? Calculations and an? Lysis documentaries, a Uruguayan professor says qui? N was really the serial murderer m? S famous of all time.

Eduardo Cuiti Or Stand-teacher? Acoustic at the Faculty of Engineering? With the ORT-have conviction? N have removed the veil by one the mysteries of the history of Criminology? With: the identity of the m? Tico Jack the Ripper. The theory? Exposed to in detail in a paper entitled "Traveling in time to catch Jack the Ripper".

Several factors contributed to increasing the figure of Jack the Ripper: She reached the great popularity? at the time thanks to the peri Physicians Europeans, the sensationalist press that gave their cr? volumes, 1888, photograph? ace and detailed reports on their mutilations, and publication? n of some of the letters I received? the Polic a.

But never m? S was swimming? AFTER namely the murderer? s then. There was m? S letters written in red ink, or cr? Volumes creepy to fill the front pages of newspapers. Jack abandon? crime scene and finally his file archiv?, in 1892, when the caseworker inspector pas? retired.


Scotland Yard jam? S could catch him, and was able to identify a culprit.

Never hall? cum on her v? VICTIMS. He spoke? A man with impotence or repulsive? n towards women. And even a woman.

The truth is that the thesis m? S to trav accepted? S of a years is which? Wing that Jack was a surgeon, the skill shown by the scalpel? to kill their v? VICTIMS.

That matches the Uruguayan Cuiti Or, even gives a name to jam now? S revealed: that of Dr. Stephen Herbert Appleford.
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:00 AM   #4
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Dead bodies exist. Look for all dna on them and look for the dna that shows up everywhere. Why is this a problem?
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:00 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Has anyone kept score, how many Jack the Rippers is that now?
21. One more and they can organize a football match.
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Dead bodies exist. Look for all dna on them and look for the dna that shows up everywhere. Why is this a problem?
Beerina's got the key!
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:04 AM   #7
Professor Yaffle
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Dead bodies exist. Look for all dna on them and look for the dna that shows up everywhere. Why is this a problem?
Go on then, get digging!

http://www.spookyisles.com/2012/09/r...esting-places/
http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rn_graves.html

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Old 29th October 2012, 08:06 AM   #8
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
21. One more and they can organize a football match.
I wouldn't start a Rippers - Rippers match without a few substitutes.
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Old 29th October 2012, 09:42 AM   #10
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Once again, I have to educate everyone. We know who the Ripper was. It was Queen Victoria's third personality. That one had a religious mania about fallen women, and snuck around cutting them up. She was finally stopped by her first and fourth personalities, who were a grizzled Old West prospector and uptight old lady, respectively. Her second personality, Vava la Bo$om, queen of strippers, was very nearly a victim of the Ripper herself. Had Her Majesty cut herself to pieces while wearing nothing but thighhigh boots and silver glitter, well, we'd have quite different notions of the Victorian era.
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Old 29th October 2012, 10:11 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
21. One more and they can organize a football match.
They managed to field a baseball team for a very short duration.

The team folded last spring, IIRC.
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Old 29th October 2012, 10:22 AM   #12
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I was someplace that had a TV on (I think it was the history channel or something) and they were running some sorry cable documentary (as they all are these days) about the Ripper. The premise sounded pretty good, though. If I can remember all of the details, the person they suspected had emigrated to the US shortly after the last murder. There were similar murders, according to this show, committed in New York after his arrival here. I didn't ever see the end of it, but what I saw seemed interesting. Of course, History Channel "Documentaries" can make lot's of things look like compelling cases by leaving conflicting evidence out.
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Old 29th October 2012, 11:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
21. One more and they can organize a football match.
That's true, for either soccer or American football (one of the few things the two games have in common is that both use 11 person teams).
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Old 29th October 2012, 11:07 AM   #14
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I don't know why all murders aren't solved by statistical modeling. It would save a lot of taxpayer dollars.
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Old 29th October 2012, 11:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
I was someplace that had a TV on... and they were running some sorry cable documentary...about the Ripper. The premise sounded pretty good, though. If I can remember all of the details, the person they suspected had emigrated to the US shortly after the last murder. There were similar murders, according to this show, committed in New York after his arrival here.
The show might be referring to Francis Tumblety, a "quack" doctor and con man who was original from the U.S. but was in London around the time of the murders.

Tublety may have been a, well, unusual person (and probably a criminal), but its unlikely that he was the killer
- He was homosexual, and while that might have made him a suspect back then, now they notice that its rare for homosexuals to target members of the opposite sex
- While he was in London, there was no evidence that he was in Whitechaple. Furthermore, his description differs from ones given of Jack the Ripper
- The killings were largely disorganized. However, since Tumblety was a con man, it would have been unlikely for someone to engage in the 'frenzied' killings (especially the last), yet engage with others socially (as a con-man would have to do).

There have been several threads discussing Jack the Ripper on this forum. For example:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=26388

As for the Americian Murders, remember that forensics was not exactly at a high point in the late 1800s. That, coupled by newspapers, etc. trying to get the 'scoop' might explain why they've associated the American murders with Jack the Ripper.
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Old 29th October 2012, 11:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
I was someplace that had a TV on (I think it was the history channel or something) and they were running some sorry cable documentary (as they all are these days) about the Ripper. The premise sounded pretty good, though. If I can remember all of the details, the person they suspected had emigrated to the US shortly after the last murder. There were similar murders, according to this show, committed in New York after his arrival here. I didn't ever see the end of it, but what I saw seemed interesting. Of course, History Channel "Documentaries" can make lot's of things look like compelling cases by leaving conflicting evidence out.
Francis Tumblety - megalomaniac mysogynist, posed as a doctor, supposedly had a collection of female uteri etc. Probably one of the more plausible suspects, but there's nothing very much against any of them. It makes for a good yarn though
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Old 29th October 2012, 11:41 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Francis Tumblety - megalomaniac mysogynist, posed as a doctor, supposedly had a collection of female uteri etc. Probably one of the more plausible suspects, but there's nothing very much against any of them. It makes for a good yarn though
The book Jack the Ripper: First American Serial Killer made a very convincing case for him being the killer. However, it's the only JtR book I read, so I have nothing to compare to. If I was to read other books, I might think they made equally good cases for other suspects.
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Old 29th October 2012, 12:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Quote:
I was someplace that had a TV on... and they were running some sorry cable documentary...about the Ripper. The premise sounded pretty good, though. If I can remember all of the details, the person they suspected had emigrated to the US shortly after the last murder. There were similar murders, according to this show, committed in New York after his arrival here.
The show might be referring to Francis Tumblety, a "quack" doctor and con man who was original from the U.S. but was in London around the time of the murders.
Hate to respond to my own posts but I think I might have been wrong...

The documentary might have been "Jack the Ripper in America", which named James Kelly as the killer.

Kelly had originally killed his wife (stabbed in the neck) and was confined to an insane asylum. He escaped and was on the loose at the time of the Ripper murders (as well as for a couple of decades after that, wandering back and forth between North America and Britain before giving himself up.)

The case against him seems to be based on:
- His hatred of prostitutes
- The fact that he had killed before (his wife)
- His mental illness
However, there is no evidence that places him in London at the time of the murders, nor does he fit witness descriptions

The following blog discusses the documentary. (However, being a blog, I don't blame you for taking it with a grain of salt)
http://murderbygasslight.blogspot.ca...n-america.html
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Old 29th October 2012, 12:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Hate to respond to my own posts but I think I might have been wrong...

The documentary might have been "Jack the Ripper in America", which named James Kelly as the killer.

Kelly had originally killed his wife (stabbed in the neck) and was confined to an insane asylum. He escaped and was on the loose at the time of the Ripper murders (as well as for a couple of decades after that, wandering back and forth between North America and Britain before giving himself up.)

The case against him seems to be based on:
- His hatred of prostitutes
- The fact that he had killed before (his wife)
- His mental illness
However, there is no evidence that places him in London at the time of the murders, nor does he fit witness descriptions

The following blog discusses the documentary. (However, being a blog, I don't blame you for taking it with a grain of salt)
http://murderbygasslight.blogspot.ca...n-america.html
Yes, it WAS Kelly in the doc I saw. The stabbing in the neck and the insane asylum escape are two of the details I remember. Like I said, I didn't see much of the show, and they kept throwing out teasers before going to commercial break, which annoyed the hell out of me. Thanks for remembering!
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Old 29th October 2012, 01:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
I was someplace that had a TV on (I think it was the history channel or something) and they were running some sorry cable documentary (as they all are these days) about the Ripper. The premise sounded pretty good, though. If I can remember all of the details, the person they suspected had emigrated to the US shortly after the last murder. There were similar murders, according to this show, committed in New York after his arrival here. I didn't ever see the end of it, but what I saw seemed interesting. Of course, History Channel "Documentaries" can make lot's of things look like compelling cases by leaving conflicting evidence out.
I think you're referring to the guy in this story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14207581

I saw the same TV show!

It is a compellling case, his ship was in London at the right time. Then he moved to New York where he was caught murdering a woman with a knife.
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Old 29th October 2012, 01:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I think you're referring to the guy in this story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14207581

I saw the same TV show!

It is a compellling case, his ship was in London at the right time. Then he moved to New York where he was caught murdering a woman with a knife.
No, that wasn't the guy on the show I saw, but his case looks better. Segnosaur got it right with his second guess, which is to say he got the correct documentary, but probably not the actual Ripper.
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Old 29th October 2012, 01:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I think you're referring to the guy in this story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14207581

I saw the same TV show!

It is a compellling case, his ship was in London at the right time. Then he moved to New York where he was caught murdering a woman with a knife.
The canonical 5 killings covered ~9 weeks. Not many sailors are in town that long.

I suspect random+copycat killings lumped together by popular hysteria.
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:01 PM   #23
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At least as of 1964, Jack the Ripper was alive and well and generaling an Air Force Base while preserving all of our precious bodily fluids.
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:01 PM   #24
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All of this speculation is irrelevant. Everyone knows that Jack the Ripper's real name was Sebastian, and he was abducted by the Vorlons in 1888.
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The canonical 5 killings covered ~9 weeks. Not many sailors are in town that long.
According to the article, the german ship Reiher was docked at the time. (I assume they would have checked to make sure it was there through all the murders.)

Not that I agree with the article's analysis... just that their time frame may fit.
Quote:
I suspect random+copycat killings lumped together by popular hysteria.
I agree with this.

That's one of the problems with serial killers... either people don't attribute deaths to someone when they should (perhaps because its outside a police force's jurrisdiction) or they try to tie unrelated cases to it.
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:37 PM   #26
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We'll never know who JTR was. Too much time has passsed and too much evidence and documentation has been lost. We can come up with umpteen theories to try to fit the facts but we cannot continue the original investigation.

There is a huge amount of mythology about "Jack" but the crimes themselves are not fundamentally different from other strings of serial murders.

What we do know about the crimes is that they were commited against the only type of victim that would go off into a dark corner with a stranger, no matter how rough he looked. Destitute, middle aged, alcoholic prostitutes in poor health. Women who literally did not have fourpence for a shared mattress in a flophouse. Women who were desperate enough to still be streetwalking in the freezing early morning hours when the streets were mostly empty.

These may have been his preferred victims but given the way he went to town when he had access to a younger prettier woman in a private room, more likely they were the only victims he could get. They were killed in public -alleyways and courtyards surrounded by tall buildings packed like sardines with local residents. They were killed within walking distance of each other. Twice the killer was very nearly caught red handed. He was either an insane risk taker or unsophisticated and not very bright.

If we were making inferences based on what we actually know about his behaviour we could guess that he was poor - he couldn't afford his own vehicle, murder site or use the services of more expensive prostitutes that had private premises.

We could guess that he was local - historically serial killers begin their crimes within a geographical comfort zone. It seems unlikely that an outsider would be familiar enough with the poorest, roughest, most densely populated areas of the city to be comfortable carrying out repeated public murders there.

The "Ripper" killings have passed into popular culture and folklore, from countless books and tv shows to graphic novels and iconic movies. There tends to be an unconscious expectation that there must be some glamour or conspiracy or a shocking twist as to the killer's identity. I think the balance of probability is that "Jack" was ordinary, dull, poor and a bit of a thickie.

Before their arrests, the Yorkshire Ripper or the Suffolk Strangler were outwardly completely unremarkable. Ordinary local men, not Russian anarchists, psychotic Royals, occultists, out of town doctors, Jewish religious fanatics or anything remotely glamourous.

Just losers.
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:57 PM   #27
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Carnivore, your post should be a one-page 'Jack the Ripper: Solved!' website. I've never seen the case so well summarised.

Let me repeat - we will *never* know who he was, and even if we could know, he would mean nothing to anyone still alive, and probably wouldn't have meant much to anyone even back then. He'd be a nobody performing extraordinary acts. Rather like the opposite of Spider-Man (stay with me on this!). In Spider-Man 2 Peter's mask comes off (again) and it simply wasn't a problem, because no-one knew who the hell Peter was ('he's just a kid').
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Old 29th October 2012, 03:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle View Post
I love google translate....
Strange... when I went through google translate I got something at least partly readable...

a name never revealed until now: that of Dr. Stephen Herbert Appleford.
...
"I propose Defendant lived in the area at the time of the events, at number 17 of Finisbury Circus. Was 36 years old in 1888 ... and was left-handed" (a letter Jack the Ripper left wrote a lefty, and doctors of the time also attributed this characteristic, by the direction of the cuts inflicted on his victims).
...
"His knowledge of anatomy... Worked in the area (the attacks were on Friday nights or on a weekend), studied with the best surgeons in Europe (the handwriting of the murderer's letters shows his training) and had a considerable force of arms: swimming champion and participated in rowing competitions, "the teaching of ORT.
...
Analyzed London maps and possible escape routes of the time, identified the murderer Cuitiño always fled in one direction, to the west, where there was then a hospital (where Dr. Stephen Herbert worked Appleford). This surgeon living in the center of the "hot", where the murders were committed in the Finisbury Circus Square.
...
Cuitiño located to all medical residents in the area of ​​crimes, including Dr. Appleford, and collated the writing and the physician's signature on the 1891 census form, and the first known letter attributed to Jack the Ripper: the coincidence was amazing.
...
Another significant detail Cuitiño found in his painstaking research, comes from The British Medical Journal, in its issue of September 14, 1895. In a section called "new inventions" describes and illustrates a compact, pocket, with room to carry medical and surgical instruments, whose invention is attributed to Dr. Appleford
...
"Jack" was marked by an initial traumatic event: the death of his mother in 1881. ... He was also teased by young-a trait typical of psychopathy, being a native of Coggeshall (the inhabitants of that city were always classified as very gross Londoners).
...
To Cuitiño, Appleford "the Ripper" stopped killing because he married and moved out of town.


Ok, here are the problems with his analysis...

- The argument that the killer had surgical skill is probably false. If anything, the killings show that the individual had no real medical knowledge (more of a morbid curiosity about the human body)

- He was supposedly using the first "Jack the Ripper" letter for handwriting comparison. The problem is, that particular letter is a known forgery

- He claims that the "killer always fled west". How did he know that? In the last killing (Mary Jane Kelly) the body wasn't found until hours after the killing. And as far as I know, nobody saw the killer actually run from any of the other crime scenes

- The argument that he stopped killing because he got married does not seem to correspond with what we know of serial killers (especially 'disorganized' ones.) Especially after the last killing, you'd expect the killer to become more anti-social, less able to carry on a 'real' relationship.
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Old 29th October 2012, 07:58 PM   #29
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Nat Geo vid suggests Ripper was Carl Feigenbaum

There was a National Geographic Channel Special, “Finding Jack the Ripper” which featured retired homicide detective Trevor Marriott, and to use most of the description in the video to describe this: Marriott's team combined forensic science, pathology, criminal psychology and virtual 3D recreations of the victims' post mortems.

If I understand from the video correctly, Trevor Marriott was the first to notice similarity of a Whitechapel London murder with one in New York: two crosses carved into the victims. A victim in New York had two crosses cut into her- a large cross on her back, and a smaller cross on her abdomen. The Ripper's 4th victim in London, Catherine Eddowes, had two small crosses carved into her- one on each cheek bone.

Trevor Marriott checked records stored in the Bremen Public Records Office, of merchant vessels docked in London. The Reiher, was docked in London on all dates but one. But Marriott found a second ship from the same German shipping fleet, Norddeutscher Lloyd, was docked the other murder date. Trevor checked for merchant ships because the brother of Carl Feigenbaum, said Carl had been employed as a merchant seaman in the past.

Here's an interesting read describing Trevor Marriott's research, along with information about Carl Feignbaum, and his lawyer who thought Feigenbaum was Jack the Ripper.
CARL FERDINAND FEIGENBAUM: An Old Suspect Resurfaces
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:17 PM   #30
George 152
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
That's true, for either soccer or American football (one of the few things the two games have in common is that both use 11 person teams).

Get the right ref and linesmen and you can cut the numbers playing in a football game back to 18 or 20
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Old 29th October 2012, 09:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle View Post
I love google translate....



That is weird.
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Old 29th October 2012, 10:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
There was a National Geographic Channel Special, “Finding Jack the Ripper” which featured retired homicide detective Trevor Marriott
...
If I understand from the video correctly, Trevor Marriott was the first to notice similarity of a Whitechapel London murder with one in New York: two crosses carved into the victims. A victim in New York had two crosses cut into her- a large cross on her back, and a smaller cross on her abdomen. The Ripper's 4th victim in London, Catherine Eddowes, had two small crosses carved into her- one on each cheek bone.
...
Marriott found a second ship from the same German shipping fleet, Norddeutscher Lloyd, was docked the other murder date. Trevor checked for merchant ships because the brother of Carl Feigenbaum, said Carl had been employed as a merchant seaman in the past.

Here's an interesting read describing Trevor Marriott's research, along with information about Carl Feignbaum, and his lawyer who thought Feigenbaum was Jack the Ripper.
CARL FERDINAND FEIGENBAUM: An Old Suspect Resurfaces
Keep in mind that the reference you gave spends a lot of time debunking the Feigenbaum as the Ripper theory.

It points out that:
- The idea that Feigenbaum was the ripper comes only from a lawyer who was defending Feigenbaum against a murder charge. He may have been planning on using the insanity defense (thus, it may have been a ploy to make him appear 'crazy'). Furthermore, most of the supporting 'evidence' depends only on this one lawyer's claims. (Its even possible that Feigenbaum didn't even speak english.)
- The person Feigenbaum did kill was someone he was renting a room from and had been for several days... not exactly the same victimology as the Ripper's prostitute victims
- There's evidence to suggest the murder Feigenbaum was charged for was from a robbery-gone-bad, rather than the work of a serial killer motivated by death only

Linking murders simply by an 'X' carved into the body seems rather thin. (In fact, the description I've seen was that Eddowes had more of a 'V' carved into her, not as any sort of special symbol, but as a way to peel back the skin (part of the general morbid fascination he had with his victims). Furthermore, there was a lot more cutting and desecration done to Eddowe's body than just the marks on the cheeks. I'm sure certain mutilations would match any murder if you just look at small parts of what was done.
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Old 29th October 2012, 10:35 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
That's true, for either soccer or American football (one of the few things the two games have in common is that both use 11 person teams).
Real football is played with 12 player teams. (I'm of course referring to Canadian football.)
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Old 29th October 2012, 10:44 PM   #34
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It was Jimmy Saville all along, wasn't it? And he would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't fot those meddling kids!
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Old 29th October 2012, 10:48 PM   #35
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Jack the Ripper was an American? Haha take that limeys! USA USA USA!
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Old 29th October 2012, 11:17 PM   #36
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Jack the Ripper found again? Thats the fourth time this year.

Unfortunately a lot of the "revelations", even those from people who should know better, make the mistake of deciding whom they want to be the Ripper and asking only the questions that support their case. This has been the standard MO of nat-geo documentaries recently. It is a shame.
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Old 30th October 2012, 03:06 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Jack the Ripper found again? Thats the fourth time this year.

Unfortunately a lot of the "revelations", even those from people who should know better, make the mistake of deciding whom they want to be the Ripper and asking only the questions that support their case. This has been the standard MO of nat-geo documentaries recently. It is a shame.
Isn't that how the cops do it as well?
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Old 30th October 2012, 03:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
It was Jimmy Saville all along, wasn't it? And he would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't fot those meddling kids!
You sick sick bastard…

Nom'ed!
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Old 30th October 2012, 04:12 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
The "Ripper" killings have passed into popular culture and folklore, from countless books and tv shows to graphic novels and iconic movies. There tends to be an unconscious expectation that there must be some glamour or conspiracy or a shocking twist as to the killer's identity. I think the balance of probability is that "Jack" was ordinary, dull, poor and a bit of a thickie.
That's VERY true. Murders in late 19th Century Whitechapel weren't that unusual. A conspiracy would've had no trouble hiding five or six killings among the many others that occurred around there and then.
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Old 30th October 2012, 08:29 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
You sick sick bastard…

Nom'ed!
Nom'ed? Wow, thank you!
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