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Tags Arlene Gaal , bigfoot , cryptozoology , flatwoods monster , Ken Chaplin , lake worth monster , loch ness monster , onza , panthers , Trunko

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Old 13th November 2012, 06:58 PM   #41
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I always figured you saw a glowing ember from a fire. I've seen them come floating by when they do controlled burns at the sandhill crane refuge. They can look really weird
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Old 13th November 2012, 07:47 PM   #42
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Well it was mighty huge to be an ember, I didn't see any smoke anywhere from a fire, or smell a fire. But it was related to fire in that it would have been hot.
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:51 AM   #43
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I was inclined too to guess at a burning piece of paper that rose from a trash fire, but I'm guessing it wasn't if it didn't diminish or give itself away while being watched unless it went behind something in its flight.
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Old 14th November 2012, 10:39 AM   #44
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It came up from the ground with a pop and sparks over by an A/C unit. Best I can tell it was some kind of plasma ball/ blob from something wrong the with unit. Only 1 percent of the population has witnessed them but it looked exactly like what was created artificially in labs, they can look like living things.I believe they are more common than one might think and are misidentified as UFO's.

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Old 14th November 2012, 11:03 AM   #45
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it was a cat on fire
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Old 14th November 2012, 11:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Ever notice how cyptozoologists don't discover new species? They claim to want to discover new species but focus on celebrity monsters.
Yep, a shame. I like cryptozoology in principle. Even if there is only a few hundredths of a percent chance of something holding I think it's worth looking into. But being blind to the realities of those odds, and worse poo pooing 'skeptics' on some strawman definition of what a skeptic is, is inexcusable. Skeptics are your friends in these matters and set the bar for what is required to accomplish something unique, and nearly always right to boot.

The label cryptozoology is unfortunately owned by quacks.
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Old 14th November 2012, 12:03 PM   #47
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When was the last time a team of cryptozoologists went looking for some mundane new species like a new type of forest deer in Asia, or a new spider in South America? It always seems to be some goofy mythical animal .
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Old 14th November 2012, 02:12 PM   #48
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Another real problem with crypto types is that they refuse to employ scientific methods, though they'll say they do.
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Old 14th November 2012, 03:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Sonny2 View Post
Another real problem with crypto types is that they refuse to employ scientific methods, though they'll say they do.
"discovered strange hair in the mud, carefully placed it in a ziploc bag leftover from lunch, since cheetos have no DNA there should be no contamination"
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Old 14th November 2012, 03:15 PM   #50
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LOL. Yup, and they used their bare hands to put it in there, the same hands that just recently had been playing with the dog and before that, changed the oil in the old Chevy pickup.
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Old 14th November 2012, 04:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
It came up from the ground with a pop and sparks over by an A/C unit. Best I can tell it was some kind of plasma ball/ blob from something wrong the with unit. Only 1 percent of the population has witnessed them but it looked exactly like what was created artificially in labs, they can look like living things.I believe they are more common than one might think and are misidentified as UFO's.
What happened to it? Did it just stop being there, or did it continue to fly away unchanged? It still sounds to me like something ignited, but having said that I should mention that I am convinced that once very long ago I saw ball ligtning appear over an old well shortly before a big storm, and a second time I saw something like indoor St. Elmo's fire near a shop-based stereo system just before a huge lightning strike hit the well 40 or so feet away, fried a couple of breaker panels, killed the pump, fried the TV in the house and blew the bejeezus out of my shop's 15 inch woofer. So, if electrical storm activity was involved I'm willing to accept the odd.
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Old 14th November 2012, 05:54 PM   #52
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I saw ST. Elmo's fire once when I was a teen. It actually came out of my closet and hovered in the room, a blue ball of electricity. Scared the crap out of me and the dog both. Actually, maybe it was ball lightning, but it was indoors, whihc was odd. But my closet had a big hole in the wall - it was a really old house.

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Old 14th November 2012, 05:57 PM   #53
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Well maybe that was what it was then, I thought it was an electric plasma ball caused by something wrong with the A/C after I ruled out flying amoeba and atmospheric beasts. At the time I walked under it I was too mystified to be scared, just amazed.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:13 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sonny2 View Post
Another real problem with crypto types is that they refuse to employ scientific methods, though they'll say they do.
It's not actually a problem. Nothing really changes with a Bigfoot believer when they employ scientific methodology.

Without scientific method: I found a huge footprint in the woods. I think it's Bigfoot.

With scientific method: I found a 16" x 6" humanlike footprint in a deciduous forest at 11:39am. I think it's Bigfoot.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:14 PM   #55
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You always hear from cyptozoologists that "[insert animal] was dismissed as a legend." This is especially said of gorillas. Where do they get this narrative?
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's not actually a problem. Nothing really changes with a Bigfoot believer when they employ scientific methodology.

Without scientific method: I found a huge footprint in the woods. I think it's Bigfoot.

With scientific method: I found a 16" x 6" humanlike footprint in a deciduous forest at 11:39am. I think it's Bigfoot.
Well, yeah, maybe OK, but the leap from finding footprint to Bigfoot sure ain't very scientific methody in eitehr example, is it?

A REAL scientist would say:

Cogito ergo sum, Bigfoot. Or something more scientific like that. Maybe "a fortiori Bigfoot."
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:20 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
You always hear from cyptozoologists that "[insert animal] was dismissed as a legend." This is especially said of gorillas. Where do they get this narrative?
In general, cryptozoologists get their info and stories from other cryptozoologists.

But it wouldn't matter even if the gorilla was dismissed as legend by some people. We are talking about creatures that cannot be confirmed to exist. The gorilla was never ever in that set.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Well maybe that was what it was then, I thought it was an electric plasma ball caused by something wrong with the A/C after I ruled out flying amoeba and atmospheric beasts. At the time I walked under it I was too mystified to be scared, just amazed.
The first time I saw Ball Lightening it scared me to death At 18 I had no clue what it was and had never heard of it. I saw this at Ft. Polk, LA. Now, I'd love to see it again, it's fascinating.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:28 PM   #59
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I wanted to stay calm so I could really get a good look at it, it certainly looked exactly like a skin cell does under a microscope, or an amoeba. At any rate, I wonder if it had something to do with the freon in the A/C since it wasn't your typical blue color.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:32 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Sonny2 View Post
Well, yeah, maybe OK, but the leap from finding footprint to Bigfoot sure ain't very scientific methody in eitehr example, is it?
When people recommend scientific methodology to cryptozoologists usually they mean in documentation, evidence gathering and proper handling. Yes, you don't just go and declare the footprint to be Bigfoot but there isn't any law saying you can't after you have used scientific methodology to obtain and analyze evidence. That's actually done by a number of Bigfooters. But it doesn't stop them from thinking that what they found is Bigfoot evidence.

Maybe the bigger problems are lack of proper critical thinking, rationality and reason. Without those in place, all the science in the world won't steer you right and we can see that because....



Quote:
A REAL scientist would say:

Cogito ergo sum, Bigfoot. Or something more scientific like that. Maybe "a fortiori Bigfoot."
Jeff Meldrum is a real scientist and he is also a strong Bigfoot believer.
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Old 14th November 2012, 06:49 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
When was the last time a team of cryptozoologists went looking for some mundane new species like a new type of forest deer in Asia, or a new spider in South America? It always seems to be some goofy mythical animal .
Cryptozoology is Monster Hunting. You would have to be a real zoologist to find excitement in looking for "a new type of forest deer in Asia, or a new spider in South America." Unless, of course, we're considering Monster Forest Deer or Spider Giants.
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:00 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Jeff Meldrum is a real scientist...
A PhD does not necessarily a real scientist make.
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:03 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Sonny2 View Post
A PhD does not necessarily a real scientist make.
Stanton Friedman and Meldrum kinda prove this don't they?
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:06 PM   #64
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Don't forget that physical anthro dude who had his skeleton and that of his dog put in a museum, can't recall his name offhand...

And I think Freidman only has a Master's.

Last edited by Sonny2; 14th November 2012 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:13 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Sonny2 View Post
Don't forget that physical anthro dude who had his skeleton and that of his dog put in a museum, can't recall his name offhand...

And I think Freidman only has a Master's.
you are correct (per Wiki) i coulda swore i remembered a little "PHD" being stuck after his name on various UFO shows.... hmm
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:16 PM   #66
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Wouldn't be the first phid not really earned. Maybe it was bestowed on him as an honorary phid by the University of UFO Studies down in Roswell. (If there isn't one, there should be.)
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Old 14th November 2012, 07:34 PM   #67
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Jodie,

Reading your first post, I imagined this scenario, but more airborne:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A672...eature=related

You are leaning towards this, or something else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vV3...eature=related

To bring it back to cryptids -- would you like to reintroduce your father's "woolly booger" encounter? I would appreciate it if you may.

Last edited by jerrywayne; 14th November 2012 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 14th November 2012, 08:56 PM   #68
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Right you are Jerry Wayne, I thought bag, then WTF, but I'm pretty sure it's some kind of electrical plasma, not blue like St. Elmo's fire, not as bright as the ball lightening. The reddish color of the blobs inside the blob made me wonder about the freon.

As it relates to cryptids, I misidentified this thing as a living creature. If it happened to me it can happen to anyone because I'm cool headed when faced with emergencies and I have an eye for detail since I draw and paint.
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Old 14th November 2012, 09:36 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
As it relates to cryptids, I misidentified this thing as a living creature.
As with Bigfoot, you then must understand that there would be breeding populations... and if you are able to see that (living) thing right there then many others before you would have confirmed its existence as a living creature.

Right?
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Old 15th November 2012, 05:10 AM   #70
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Because there were hardly any reports of anything like this, I knew it couldn't be anything living, so I kept looking for any other explanation that fit. Considering the circumstances from which the thing originated from, around a high voltage unit, it has to be an electrical phenomenon, even if that phenomenon is poorly understood.

Same with bigfoot, especially these new cases where people report them on all fours. We are talking about fleeting glimpses at night most of the time. It would be very easy to misidentify something like that. Mix that with the folk lore of bigfoot and the legend continues to morph into what it is today. My only question is how much further can people go with this before it becomes "just a legend", when do the sightings stop?

If people are hallucinating, misidentifying things one would think it would include a wide variety of various types of creatures that we already have that are mythical, why a hairy hominid?
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Old 15th November 2012, 08:40 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Sonny2 View Post
Don't forget that physical anthro dude who had his skeleton and that of his dog put in a museum, can't recall his name offhand...
Grover Krantz, Meldrum's Rasputin. Both Meldrum, and Krantz before him, attained the academic rank of "full professor"; they are/were not merely PhDs. To attain that highest academic rank (short of honorary designations), the faculty member must be recognized as a scholar of international prominence. In other words, your PhD alone can't even get you tenure. You've got to be very well respected to reach the rank these men have/did.
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Old 15th November 2012, 10:20 AM   #72
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That's it. Thanks, Shrike. Yes, it just shows to go ya that even the most respected have compartments in their brains that the woo can filter into. We're all human.
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Old 15th November 2012, 02:13 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Jodie,

Reading your first post, I imagined this scenario, but more airborne:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A672...eature=related

You are leaning towards this, or something else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vV3...eature=related

To bring it back to cryptids -- would you like to reintroduce your father's "woolly booger" encounter? I would appreciate it if you may.
Regarding the second youtubbie, better be careful with it.

It starts with a video from Varginha; the video is actually the "Capão Redondo UFO", filmed at São Paulo and suspected of being a hoax. There's a thread about it somewhere here at JREF. Other segments are also suspect. Not to mention the alleged footage of lab experiments. Ever seen someone working at a lab wearing sandals?
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Old 15th November 2012, 06:10 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Regarding the second youtubbie, better be careful with it.

It starts with a video from Varginha; the video is actually the "Capão Redondo UFO", filmed at São Paulo and suspected of being a hoax. There's a thread about it somewhere here at JREF. Other segments are also suspect. Not to mention the alleged footage of lab experiments. Ever seen someone working at a lab wearing sandals?
I admit to lameness here. I looked around for a good ball lightning video (don't know if such exists) and kept finding myself back at this one. It is suspect, or most of it seems to be. Like the music though, and it is spooky.
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Old 15th November 2012, 06:36 PM   #75
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1977 Mission, B.C. Bigfoot Sighting Hoax

Here is a Bigfoot hoax in the land of the Sasquatch (British Columbia) that probably exceeded even the wildest dreams of its four perpetrators.
They apparently fooled a few on-site folks, including an up-close encounter by a respectable citizen, as well as local authorities and a famous Bigfoot hunter.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/art...nadianhoax.htm

When I brought this up at BFF, two responses puzzled me. One was of the "you have to prove all sightings are hoaxes or misidentifications to disprove Bigfoot" line of uncomprehending dogma. The other was simply to call the mundane explanation for this sighting (a hoax) ridiculous, so that the mundane becomes the incredible and the incredible becomes the mundane. This feat is doable only if you have become so acclimated to the idea Bigfoot is real, that you have forgotten just how improbable the Bigfoot saga really is.

Last edited by jerrywayne; 15th November 2012 at 07:34 PM. Reason: link to bigfootencounters
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Old 15th November 2012, 07:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
If people are hallucinating, misidentifying things one would think it would include a wide variety of various types of creatures that we already have that are mythical, why a hairy hominid?
Good observation. A single explanation won't do the trick. A confluence of various effects, maybe: knowledge of real, past Darwinian forms; popular entertainment, from Edgar Rice Burroughs' "Apeman" to campfire stories of wildmen in the woods, the "boogie man" and such; best "monster movie" monsters are bipedal and man-like, such as Frankenstein, Wolfman, Mummy, Vampires; the talent of the chroniclers, such as Sanderson and Green, Coleman, Keel, etc.; the spreading of the meme from working class men's entertainment magazines (TRUE, Argosy, Saga, not Playboy) to a larger press and to television and cable and film; professional advocate class largely free of counter-balancing criticisms and forces; the superficial credibility of the saga as just a wildlife issue; and the innate attraction to believing in something very much like us, but not us.

Since most people know what a Bigfoot is supposed to look like, there is little variety in what is alleged to be sighted. Just think of how most Bigfoot sightings claim the beast is 7-8 feet tall, and then ask yourself how the height was determined in the cases of fleeting glimpses, or quick road crossings yards ahead, etc. The meme kicks in, and keeps it "real."
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Old 15th November 2012, 09:46 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Here is a Bigfoot hoax in the land of the Sasquatch (British Columbia) that probably exceeded even the wildest dreams of its four perpetrators.
They apparently fooled a few on-site folks, including an up-close encounter by a respectable citizen, as well as local authorities and a famous Bigfoot hunter.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/art...nadianhoax.htm

When I brought this up at BFF, two responses puzzled me. One was of the "you have to prove all sightings are hoaxes or misidentifications to disprove Bigfoot" line of uncomprehending dogma. The other was simply to call the mundane explanation for this sighting (a hoax) ridiculous, so that the mundane becomes the incredible and the incredible becomes the mundane. This feat is doable only if you have become so acclimated to the idea Bigfoot is real, that you have forgotten just how improbable the Bigfoot saga really is.
Nice.

The witness who chased the actor gave testimony that he smelled a horrible odor like rotten meat. So I wonder if the hoaxers went so far as to plant something, or whether this is exaggeration/ignorance.

There are many times in the woods where we have rotten smells depending on season, moisture, sunshine and heat, or whatever. You can disturb cover that is over some pretty wretched stuff.
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Old 16th November 2012, 07:57 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Here is a Bigfoot hoax in the land of the Sasquatch (British Columbia) that probably exceeded even the wildest dreams of its four perpetrators.
They apparently fooled a few on-site folks, including an up-close encounter by a respectable citizen, as well as local authorities and a famous Bigfoot hunter.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/art...nadianhoax.htm

When I brought this up at BFF, two responses puzzled me. One was of the "you have to prove all sightings are hoaxes or misidentifications to disprove Bigfoot" line of uncomprehending dogma. The other was simply to call the mundane explanation for this sighting (a hoax) ridiculous, so that the mundane becomes the incredible and the incredible becomes the mundane. This feat is doable only if you have become so acclimated to the idea Bigfoot is real, that you have forgotten just how improbable the Bigfoot saga really is.
I kept running across this attitude in other bigfoot threads even among people who seemed to be rational in other areas. It goes even a little further. An obvious hoax not only leaves intact all other sightings, but it oftebn leaves intact even the sightings of the person doing the hoax. The argument is that they had to resort to hoaxing because the real evidence was not accepted. Sort of like when the TV network put explosives in a Chevy truck to prove they gas tanks would explode. Except that in Bigfoot land, they get away with it even after the exposé.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:13 AM   #79
foxholeatheist
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Nice.

The witness who chased the actor gave testimony that he smelled a horrible odor like rotten meat. So I wonder if the hoaxers went so far as to plant something, or whether this is exaggeration/ignorance.

There are many times in the woods where we have rotten smells depending on season, moisture, sunshine and heat, or whatever. You can disturb cover that is over some pretty wretched stuff.
I wanted to ask you because of your experience in the North:

Do you ever find bear carcasses? That's a oft repeated bigfooter claim that they never do but my woods experience has generally been in low-density bear areas. I'm sure that in an area where there are bears you would.

In Eastern WA I once found a bear's jawbone.

You are correct sir: Many times I have been picking mushrooms or looking for a tree stand site or just walking through the woods and you get that death smell from somewhere. Once my wife and I were trout fishing along a stream in Missouri and caught that scent. The water was falling after a good spring rain and the browns and bows were biting good. Up on a gravel bank upstream from where we filled our water bottles was a massive bloated dead cow on the bank.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:50 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by foxholeatheist View Post
I wanted to ask you because of your experience in the North:

Do you ever find bear carcasses?
Sort of. Shot five of them. Mostly grizzlies charging in order to steal my moose kill. But unlike Justin Smeja I have skulls and hides. Lots of pictures too, live and dead.

We run across a lot of animal carcasses or bones but I don't recall running across a bear. Other people do occasionally.

Some pretty rancid smells come from vegetative matter too. There's one smell I have never located the source to because you just catch whiffs of it as air masses are moving around. I'm certain it isn't an animal, but a person not familiar with vegetative vs carcass smells might attribute it incorrectly.
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