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Tags john edward , mediums , psychics

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Old 26th November 2012, 06:53 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.
I'm well aware of the techniques used by self-styled mediums and psychics as well. I've never seen anything that would indicate that Edward is any different from any other fraud who exploits the pain of other's losses for profit.

Quote:
Now suspicious, O'Neill recalled that while the audience was waiting to be seated, Edward’s aides were scurrying about, striking up conversations and getting people to fill out cards with their name, family tree and other facts. Once inside the auditorium, where each family was directed to preassigned seats, more than an hour passed before show time while “technical difficulties” backstage were corrected.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:54 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Communicating with those who have crossed over is not the same as talking to someone on your iphone with a crystal clear connection...and that has been explained in more detail in the comment section of my blog...which is why I will respectfully ask you and all on this thread to ACTUALLY read my blog and ALL the comments because many if not all of your points have ALREADY been addressed there. Then perhaps we can discuss and cover some new ground.
And we have dealt with those concerns numerous times before your arrival. If you doubt us, then pick out tge most salient comments and post them here. I began reading your comments; many are skeptical of your claims and have no effective counter that I saw. I am not in the business of doing your work for you. You have a claim so support it.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:55 AM   #43
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And I am sorry if I didn't follow the proper etiquette on this thread..it is new to me.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:56 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
There's a good P&T BS episode about psychics; in one scene a man realizes that a reading he received about his lost mom from Rosemary Altea was, well, BS.

It's a good touch when Mark Edward points out the tricks in Altea's little schtick.
And in that person's eyes the reading was just as convincing as Robin believes hers to have been.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:58 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
And I am sorry if I didn't follow the proper etiquette on this thread..it is new to me.
No problem. And most of us here are not as rude as we often appear. We are simply more direct and doubting than many who come here are used to. You and your belief are welcome. Simply understand that we will not take your or anyone at your word (for the most part).
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Communicating with those who have crossed over is not the same as talking to someone on your iphone with a crystal clear connection...
I did read your blog. Thus I know that, while the "spirits" who confide in Edward have great difficulty communicating their own names, they seem to have no difficulty with other words like, "refrigerator".
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
...Robin's two main points seem to be that JE knew that she had just bought a refrigerator and that JE mentioned a connection between her brother and Valerie Harper (the brother had tickets to that night's Broadway show starring Valerie Harper).
If you'd read further down into the comments you'd see that her brother posts too, explaining that he hadn't bought tickets, he'd agreed with a friend that they would buy tickets.

So, while Robin's credit card info might reveal the fridge purchase, the Valerie Harper connection would have to be gleaned by some other technique - likely something overheard by a stooge in the queue.

I have no idea how hard it is to get info on someone else's CC purchases, but one of the early commenters is adamant that his son could do this easily. I imagine this is not lawful, so it's a risky thing for them to have done.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:01 AM   #48
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Robin,

The reason so many people are dismissive of your experience is that the human mind in phenomenally bad at recalling events. This is one of the reasons why eyewitness testimony results in false convictions. It's the reason why a couple can argue violently over memories of events in the pass, and both believe themselves to be correct.

I used to work doing fortune telling in Orlando years and years ago. I used classic cold reading, with some hot reading tossed in. (In defense of charlatans, I actually did believe that I had the ability to do readings, even when I was using fraud to get results. It's amazing the ability of the human brain to hold two diametrically opposed views at the same time.) I can tell you first hand how the experiences went down.

Most people don't realize how much information they give when they're talking to someone else. They also don't realize how little of any given conversation they actually remember. I would tell them that I sensed they lost someone close to them recently (a statement that applies to everyone. No matter how much time has passed, we always view the death of a loved one as being "recent".). Many times they would reply with "yes, my Grandfather" or name some other loved one. I would nod and say "yes, it's your Grandfather. I sense it was a problem with his heart or lungs?". You get the idea. Broad guesses, with additional information being provided by the client.

Every single one of them would come out of the readings saying "it's amazing. He knew it was my Grandfather and that he died of a heart attack. How could he know that information if he wasn't psychic?".

These were not stupid people. I gave readings to doctors, lawyers and all sort of folks. Being smart and educated does not free you from the bias of our minds. I have no doubt that you tried to view the encounter skeptically, and to the best of your knowledge the events you relate are exactly as they occurred. It's hard for us to admit that our perceptions can be flawed, and that's why so many people fall for frauds.

Edwards is a fairly decent cold reader, with enough personal charisma to pull it off. He's also known for using audience plants, and for getting information from audience members waiting to get into his shows.

I hope you will have enough of an open mind to read up on cold reading, and the history of mentalisim.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:02 AM   #49
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Not less intelligent just less informed about the tricks of the trade of fraudulent mediums.
And way more trusting.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:04 AM   #50
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Thanks for reading! And what about "Tooth Guy!"
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:07 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
If you'd read further down into the comments you'd see that her brother posts too, explaining that he hadn't bought tickets, he'd agreed with a friend that they would buy tickets.

So, while Robin's credit card info might reveal the fridge purchase, the Valerie Harper connection would have to be gleaned by some other technique - likely something overheard by a stooge in the queue.

I have no idea how hard it is to get info on someone else's CC purchases, but one of the early commenters is adamant that his son could do this easily. I imagine this is not lawful, so it's a risky thing for them to have done.
First, it is important to reiterate that JE did not say "you have (or will buy) tickets to Valerie Harper's show;" rather, he said there is "a Valerie Harper connection." More than one thing could fit that, and so it is not accurate to imply that JE knew about the tickets. (I am not saying you are doing this).

Second, it is important to know that there is no transcript, so we don't really know what JE actually said. It matters.

Third, since JE is known for hot reading and for having aides in the queue, there seems to be little real mystery here.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:09 AM   #52
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Thanks for your response...I have done the research AND i know that my story is SO convincing that the only way for some people to explain it away is by saying I am not remembering it correctly or exactly as it happened. I know I can't convince you everything happened that night as described. But...it DID!
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:10 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Not less intelligent just less informed about the tricks of the trade of fraudulent mediums.
And way more trusting.
Yet they thought they were informed enough and savvy enough just as you do. How can you be certain that you are not just slightly better informed so that you can rule out some of the frauds but not so well informed that you can rule them all out?

This isn't intended as a snarky or insulting question; I ask it legitimately. How do you know that your specific level of knowledge and your specific level of trust or non-trust is sufficient?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:13 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Thanks for your response...I have done the research AND i know that my story is SO convincing that the only way for some people to explain it away is by saying I am not remembering it correctly or exactly as it happened. I know I can't convince you everything happened that night as described. But...it DID!
I don't doubt that you believe it to be true, but forgive us for doubting.

There are two levels of difficulty here. First, you are almost certainly remembering something wrong, regardless how certain you are of your memory. Second, it doesn't matter if you have relayed the events with great exactness; they are still unconvincing given the alternate ways to accomplish this separate from being a real psychic/medium.

GBOB's excellent post is merely a start.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:15 AM   #55
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No, all I was trying to say was that being a librarian OF COURSE I would have thoroughly researched a topic I was so interested in.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:17 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Thanks for your response...I have done the research AND i know that my story is SO convincing that the only way for some people to explain it away is by saying I am not remembering it correctly or exactly as it happened. I know I can't convince you everything happened that night as described. But...it DID!
And yet there are thousands of people who feel the same way about numerous other prominent psychics, mediums and faith healers, including ones whom you no doubt number among the fakes you've mentioned.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:25 AM   #57
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But, Chicken Little, sometimes the sky IS falling!
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:28 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
If I am so personally invested and so then cannot use my critical thinking skills properly why then do I believe that ALL the other mediums I've been to are fakes?
If it had been Van Praagh, Altea, etc., that would have been the cold/hot reading you would have believed.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:30 AM   #59
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Robin, can you be completely certain that none of your party mentioned anything to do with the Valerie Harper show at any time while you were queuing for the John Edward show?

And just out of curiosity, did you happen to purchase tickets for the JE show using the same credit card you used to buy the refrigerator? As I said, I don't know anything about gleaning info from someone else's card, but being a vendor who has a legitimate charge to the card would be an obvious foot in the door.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:31 AM   #60
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O'Neill's description is the total OPPOSITE of what I experienced that day as well as any other John Edward event that I have ever, ever been to!
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:31 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
No, all I was trying to say was that being a librarian OF COURSE I would have thoroughly researched a topic I was so interested in.
I believe that, but I doubt that "thoroughly" is as thorough as you think it is. Allow me a personal example:

I am an amateur magician and mentalist. I have been so all my life. For the past 25 years or so, I have really been far more a researcher and collector than a performer. My library of books, DVDS, lecture notes, monographs, etc., on magic and mentalism is extensive and equal to many professional performers. My collection of professionally made magical items and mentalist items is also extensive. I am a member of multiple online forums that require extensive knowledge of magic and/or mentalism even to join. I have performed the simplest of mental acts and magic acts on the spur of the moment and had people convinced that I am either psychic or in league with the devil. I do not exaggerate; I have been accused of both of those in all sincerity.

And the catch is this: I am not really that good. The people who do this for a living blow me away in what they can do, and it is still possible to fool me. For all of the many thousands of dollars (and it is many, many thousands of dollars) that I have spent acquiring my specialist knowledge, I can still be fooled. Even lesser, unknown performers have occasionally done something that left me scratching my head with no idea how they did it. Sometimes I go out of my way to learn the method; sometimes I let it go and enjoy the wonder.

But never, never, never, do I assume that simply because I cannot figure out how something was done that it must have been REAL magic. I simply assume that I have been fooled by someone whose livelihood depends on the ability to fool people. And then I remember that it really isn't that hard to fool people, not even well-educated laymen.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:35 AM   #62
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Let's assume that this is all true. All of it, including how difficult it is to understand the things that the dead are trying to communicate.

Why would your father be trying to communicate to you that you'd just bought a fridge and that your brother had just bought some theatre tickets? Is there not something more meaningful he could communicate?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:35 AM   #63
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Yes, actually I would love to discuss the ways in which you think John Edward was able to trick me into thinking he could communicate with my deceased Dad...BUT you do need to actually read the blog AND All the comments first before we can actually have that discussion.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:37 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Yes, actually I would love to discuss the ways in which you think John Edward was able to trick me into thinking he could communicate with my deceased Dad...BUT you do need to actually read the blog AND All the comments first before we can actually have that discussion.
What do the comments have to do with your experience?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:42 AM   #65
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Here's the real John Edward.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:44 AM   #66
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Already mentioned on this thread that I've been to Van Praagh and in my opinion he is a fake. I actually even mentioned that in the comment section of my blog which of course you have not read.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:44 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
you do need to actually read the blog AND All the comments first ...
Robin, in all seriousness, if there are any important points raised after the first few hundred comments, please could you save our scrolling fingers and just describe them briefly here?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:45 AM   #68
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The comments explain the experience in greater detail as well as give answers to people who point out the tricks of the trade with regard to my experience.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:46 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Being that I know just as much if not more about the tricks fake mediums use the reason you should seriously examine (and you do need to read ALL the comments for the full picture) my experience with John Edward is the fact that I ACTUALLY had a reading with him whereas I'm guessing most here have not. I have the knowledge of what to look for in a fake medium AND all my experiences with mediums(lots... including James Van Praagh) and in my opinion they were all fake. Except for John Edward. You have the knowledge minus the actual personal experience with John Edward which makes me a more qualified judge.
What is the difference between John Edwards and Van praagh? In other words what does John Edwards do that Van Praagh does not that convinces you that one is a fraud over the other?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:46 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Yes, actually I would love to discuss the ways in which you think John Edward was able to trick me into thinking he could communicate with my deceased Dad...BUT you do need to actually read the blog AND All the comments first before we can actually have that discussion.
I have done so.

Bear in mind that we can only go on your memory of what happened at this reading, and human memory is fallible. Even if you took notes at the time, we would still be relying on something that's been filtered through your perceptions rather than a transcript or an unedited video. That's not a criticism of you, it's just the nature of communication and memory.

You say you've researched fake psychics so you will already know some of the techniques that 'mediums' use to fool people into believing they are in touch with spirits.

Was anything said at your reading that you believe could not have been discovered by Edward or his researchers in any other way than by supernatural means?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:47 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Communicating with those who have crossed over is not the same as talking to someone on your iphone with a crystal clear connection...and that has been explained in more detail in the comment section of my blog...which is why I will respectfully ask you and all on this thread to ACTUALLY read my blog and ALL the comments because many if not all of your points have ALREADY been addressed there. Then perhaps we can discuss and cover some new ground.
Or, you could plow the new ground here, up front...

I respectfully ask you to explain, here, why your experience with a demonstrated fraud proves that this one time, out of all of history, a living person "communicated" with the dead.

Then perhaps we can discuss your contentions.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:48 AM   #72
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It was a different credit card. I am SURE noone with me talked about anything John Edward mentioned! I do refer to myself as being more than a little paranoid in that regard...NO TALKING ALLOWED when I go to these events!
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:48 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Already mentioned on this thread that I've been to Van Praagh and in my opinion he is a fake. I actually even mentioned that in the comment section of my blog which of course you have not read.
Why is he fake and Edward not?

Be specific.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:51 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
It was a different credit card. I am SURE noone with me talked about anything John Edward mentioned! I do refer to myself as being more than a little paranoid in that regard...NO TALKING ALLOWED when I go to these events!
How many of these do you attend?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:53 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
And I am sorry if I didn't follow the proper etiquette on this thread..it is new to me.
Please do not pretend that it is a question of etiquette. Rather, it is a question of experience. Post the salient parts of your claims here. If you document a demonstrable effect, onr that has not been seen before, that stands up to the most rigorous, skeptical scrutiny, then I wlll admit you might have something. Until then, there is no reason, none at all, to even consider JE unique.
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:00 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Robin, in all seriousness, if there are any important points raised after the first few hundred comments, please could you save our scrolling fingers and just describe them briefly here?
Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
What is the difference between John Edwards and Van praagh? In other words what does John Edwards do that Van Praagh does not that convinces you that one is a fraud over the other?
Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
I have done so.

Bear in mind that we can only go on your memory of what happened at this reading, and human memory is fallible. Even if you took notes at the time, we would still be relying on something that's been filtered through your perceptions rather than a transcript or an unedited video. That's not a criticism of you, it's just the nature of communication and memory.

You say you've researched fake psychics so you will already know some of the techniques that 'mediums' use to fool people into believing they are in touch with spirits.

Was anything said at your reading that you believe could not have been discovered by Edward or his researchers in any other way than by supernatural means?
Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
Or, you could plow the new ground here, up front...

I respectfully ask you to explain, here, why your experience with a demonstrated fraud proves that this one time, out of all of history, a living person "communicated" with the dead.

Then perhaps we can discuss your contentions.
Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
First, it is important to reiterate that JE did not say "you have (or will buy) tickets to Valerie Harper's show;" rather, he said there is "a Valerie Harper connection." More than one thing could fit that, and so it is not accurate to imply that JE knew about the tickets. (I am not saying you are doing this).

Second, it is important to know that there is no transcript, so we don't really know what JE actually said. It matters.

Third, since JE is known for hot reading and for having aides in the queue, there seems to be little real mystery here.
Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Yet they thought they were informed enough and savvy enough just as you do. How can you be certain that you are not just slightly better informed so that you can rule out some of the frauds but not so well informed that you can rule them all out?

This isn't intended as a snarky or insulting question; I ask it legitimately. How do you know that your specific level of knowledge and your specific level of trust or non-trust is sufficient?
Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
I don't doubt that you believe it to be true, but forgive us for doubting.

There are two levels of difficulty here. First, you are almost certainly remembering something wrong, regardless how certain you are of your memory. Second, it doesn't matter if you have relayed the events with great exactness; they are still unconvincing given the alternate ways to accomplish this separate from being a real psychic/medium.

GBOB's excellent post is merely a start.
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
And yet there are thousands of people who feel the same way about numerous other prominent psychics, mediums and faith healers, including ones whom you no doubt number among the fakes you've mentioned.
Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
I believe that, but I doubt that "thoroughly" is as thorough as you think it is. Allow me a personal example:

I am an amateur magician and mentalist. I have been so all my life. For the past 25 years or so, I have really been far more a researcher and collector than a performer. My library of books, DVDS, lecture notes, monographs, etc., on magic and mentalism is extensive and equal to many professional performers. My collection of professionally made magical items and mentalist items is also extensive. I am a member of multiple online forums that require extensive knowledge of magic and/or mentalism even to join. I have performed the simplest of mental acts and magic acts on the spur of the moment and had people convinced that I am either psychic or in league with the devil. I do not exaggerate; I have been accused of both of those in all sincerity.

And the catch is this: I am not really that good. The people who do this for a living blow me away in what they can do, and it is still possible to fool me. For all of the many thousands of dollars (and it is many, many thousands of dollars) that I have spent acquiring my specialist knowledge, I can still be fooled. Even lesser, unknown performers have occasionally done something that left me scratching my head with no idea how they did it. Sometimes I go out of my way to learn the method; sometimes I let it go and enjoy the wonder.

But never, never, never, do I assume that simply because I cannot figure out how something was done that it must have been REAL magic. I simply assume that I have been fooled by someone whose livelihood depends on the ability to fool people. And then I remember that it really isn't that hard to fool people, not even well-educated laymen.
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
What do the comments have to do with your experience?
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Why is he fake and Edward not?

Be specific.
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
How many of these do you attend?
Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
Please do not pretend that it is a question of etiquette. Rather, it is a question of experience. Post the salient parts of your claims here. If you document a demonstrable effect, onr that has not been seen before, that stands up to the most rigorous, skeptical scrutiny, then I wlll admit you might have something. Until then, there is no reason, none at all, to even consider JE unique.
These. Your strident insistence that you cannot be fooled is not a convincing argument. What we respect is evidence, not claims.
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:01 AM   #77
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And a nitpick for the skeptics: It is Edward without an S. Not Edwards.
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:10 AM   #78
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What is most obvious to me about Van Praagh in my opinion is his use of cold (perhaps hot too but can't say for sure) reading techniques. Quite disconcerting to witness the fishing and the information which people unwittingly give him and how he tries to turn it around and make it seem new. He gives lots of general info and names and attempts to build on that. Does someone here have a ring of the deceased? And never once saw him give any unusual "he couldn't have known" pieces of information. My brother Occam JR. (see my blog and comments) actually were texting back and forth about just walking out of the event but then it mercifully ended on it's own. Was quite painful..But yes many there were complete believers.
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:12 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Wheres Harry Houdini when you need him?
Hang on a sec, I'll channel him.
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:13 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Considering the rapidity of your response I must guess you did not actually read the blog or any of the comments. The truth is... a completely closed-mind is a very dangerous mindset.
Perhaps you could actually post a valid link? It's not *that* difficult.

Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I suspect we will see little more of Robin. I suspect this is another case of a believer deciding that her perception of skeptics as bitter and nasty people with small intellects has been confirmed.
Or possibly she's just looking to drive traffic to her blog. She's spammed this rubbish elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
If I am so personally invested and so then cannot use my critical thinking skills properly why then do I believe that ALL the other mediums I've been to are fakes?
You're not 100% gullible.

Originally Posted by Resume View Post
How many of these do you attend?
If she attends such events she's probably been sucker listed.
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