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Tags Connecticut incidents , gun issues , Sandy Hook , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 14th December 2012, 09:03 AM   #1
Travis
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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

CNN reporting a school shooting.
How dare they mention guns might be involved. Do they just want us to turn into the USSR with guns banned and everyone forced to worship Obama?
That's my prediction of a reaction on at least one gun forum before the day is over.

So the question is: why are guns the one subject that cannot be discussed civilly?


Holy crap: someone on CNN just said it couldn't be a student reacting to bullying because it isn't a high school so bullying doesn't happen there!
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Old 14th December 2012, 09:07 AM   #2
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I don't understand why you don't just arm all the teachers.
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Old 14th December 2012, 09:10 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
CNN reporting a school shooting.
How dare they mention guns might be involved. Do they just want us to turn into the USSR with guns banned and everyone forced to worship Obama?
That's my prediction of a reaction on at least one gun forum before the day is over.

So the question is: why are guns the one subject that cannot be discussed civilly?


Holy crap: someone on CNN just said it couldn't be a student reacting to bullying because it isn't a high school so bullying doesn't happen there!
Who said that? Did they ever go to elementary school?
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Old 14th December 2012, 09:47 AM   #4
Travis
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Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
I don't understand why you don't just arm all the teachers.
Don't stop there. Arm the kids. Make bringing an auto pistol with safeties disabled to school mandatory.

Originally Posted by LibraryLady View Post
Who said that? Did they ever go to elementary school?
Someone they had on the phone. I didn't catch what their association to all this was.
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Old 14th December 2012, 09:54 AM   #5
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The news says they recovered a Sig and and Glock from the shooter. They haven't given any details about the shooter other than that he or she is dead; but they have mentioned that the school is K - 4th, which although not definitive makes me extremely skeptical that it's a student, "bullying" aside.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
So the question is: why are guns the one subject that cannot be discussed civilly?
I believe it can.

However, when threads on the topic begin with speculation about the other side, strawmanning, and well-poisoning, the odds decrease precipitously.

Our thoughts at the moment should be with the victims. It's an old discussion, it can wait for a few hours at least.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:26 AM   #7
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It was mentioned that the shooter is both adult and currently dead, and it seems the target was the principal.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:27 AM   #8
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Post Retracted based on sensitivity of severity of developing situation. Interesting this "discussion" thread was created not in context to discuss it, but in context of bitching about bitching about gun control.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The news says they recovered a Sig and and Glock from the shooter. They haven't given any details about the shooter other than that he or she is dead; but they have mentioned that the school is K - 4th, which although not definitive makes me extremely skeptical that it's a student, "bullying" aside.
I haven't heard, but I'd be willing to bet money the shooter had a Y chromosome.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
It was mentioned that the shooter is both adult and currently dead, and it seems the target was the principal.
I just read that the principal and the school psychologist are both dead. (And the vice principal was shot in the leg or foot.)

ETA: One witness said, "The principal, vice principal and the school psychologist went into the hall. Only one person came back. It was the vice principal. The vice principal was shot in the leg or foot and came crawling back from the hall."

Does this mean the shooter was the school psychologist?

ETA: No it doesn't. I read now that the 3 went out into the hall in response to the sound of gunfire. So apparently the shooter was an outsider (or at least someone else).
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:35 AM   #11
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I heard at least 1 child was also dead. There is supposed to be a news conference at 1PM EST.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
I believe it can.

However, when threads on the topic begin with speculation about the other side, strawmanning, and well-poisoning, the odds decrease precipitously.

Our thoughts at the moment should be with the victims. It's an old discussion, it can wait for a few hours at least.
I believe it can, too. I'm willing to participate, but we need to keep the matter within the confines of valid arguments. I believe that the main reason for the disparity of opinions with regards to gun use come from ignorance about firearms themselves. It is important for people to be educated about guns before making arguments about them.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:37 AM   #13
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One witness says something like 100 rounds were fired.

Oh man. . . that does not bode well.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:46 AM   #14
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1010 WINS is saying that 27 people, 14 of them children were killed?
Anyone else saying that, or is this just CBS?

I hope to heck this is wrong.

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Old 14th December 2012, 10:48 AM   #15
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Fox just reported they are getting numbers between 12 and "in the 20's" wounded or killed.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
school psychologist
You have school psychologists these days? My primary school didn't even have a nurse. If you were sick the secretary looked after you.

Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Fox just reported they are getting numbers between 12 and "in the 20's" wounded or killed.
I think it's pretty clear at the moment that nobody has the foggiest; other reports are saying that it's "just" 3. I certainly hope it's the latter.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:51 AM   #17
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Fox confirmed at least 5 dead kids and 4 dead adults.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:53 AM   #18
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Fox News says the shooter was the father of one of the children. BBC also just now reported the 27 dead figure.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:54 AM   #19
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Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.
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Old 14th December 2012, 10:59 AM   #20
R.Mackey
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
One witness says something like 100 rounds were fired.

Oh man. . . that does not bode well.
Out of two service pistols??

Let's not join the speculation, guys.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:01 AM   #21
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This is just awful. No one should ever have to live through such an event...that goes double for children.

WTF is wrong with people?
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:03 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.
There are fire alarms and escape routes with plans, don't make a ridiculous comparison and then draw a conclusion from it as if it were legit.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.
Guns make it damn easy to kill people.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
This is just awful. No one should ever have to live through such an event...that goes double for children.

WTF is wrong with people?
I agree completely. I am sick inside over this.

I am vehemently pro-gun ownership but I am thinking I need to rethink my position.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
This is just awful. No one should ever have to live through such an event...that goes double for children.

WTF is wrong with people?
Random nuts in a gun culture with easy access to guns. It's not something predictable though or easily stopped.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
This is just awful. No one should ever have to live through such an event...that goes double for children.

WTF is wrong with people?
Most people are OK, Sabretooth. Keep this in perspective. Also, violence is always a choice and never the result of only emotion or motive.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:06 AM   #27
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One more thing -- I heard the hospital was on lock-down and that they sent all unnecessary staff home. I couldn't figure out why, but I bet it is because they had to take that many deceased individuals to the hospital.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:06 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.
Quite frankly I'm fed up with ******** like this. It seems about 20, including 10 kids, were killed. Please take your cavalier, sarcastic attitude and shove it.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Guns make it damn easy to kill people.
I thought the grenades bit was the give away...?
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.
I imagine it's quite a bit easier to escape a burning building with adequate fire detection than it is to escape a crazed gunman. Also, matches and gasoline are considerably cheaper and easier to get ahold of than guns are. Since, as you say, the potential body count is also higher with those, why do you think those aren't used for crimes nearly as often as guns are?

We don't suffer tens of thousands of grenade deaths a year, and I imagine we don't have the world's highest rate of private grenade ownership or grenade violence, so that seems a silly issue to bring up.

ETA: Ok, I'm obviously not familiar enough with your posts to know whether this was sarcasm or not. Chalk it up to the fact that I have heard genuine arguments of the same level reasonableness made in favor of guns.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:08 AM   #31
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My God, it's Dunblane all over again but worse! These poor people!

Rolfe.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:08 AM   #32
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I suspect the biggest factor in why these shootings have become almost commonplace in the US is the saturation media coverage (combined with relatively easy access to the means). I doubt the media (and the public it feeds on) will ever take this in and act upon it though.

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/901518-aurora.pdf
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.

You know, I'd have thought that by now people on this forum were accustomed enough to your style of black irony to understand this post, but apparently not.

Rolfe.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:09 AM   #34
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Hold on, are grenades legal in the US? I am a bit lost now??
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:10 AM   #35
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STOP confusing the issue. FACT is he could've killed just as many people with darts or ninja stars!
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:10 AM   #36
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What a terrible, tragic event.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:11 AM   #37
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Oh Christ, another ruddy Dunblane.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
STOP confusing the issue. FACT is he could've killed just as many people with darts or ninja stars!
Oh, now I got it. I think. Quoth the Raven...
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:14 AM   #39
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Terrible news. I cannot fathom what could make a person take a gun into a school full of young children.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:16 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Delscottio View Post
Hold on, are grenades legal in the US? I am a bit lost now??
Yes they are. They are controlled as a destructive device requiring registration in accordance with the NFA of 1934. A person can make or buy them without a license by paying a $200 tax on each. They are not a propular item among the shooting crowd.

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