ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Connecticut incidents , gun issues , Sandy Hook , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

Reply
Old 14th December 2012, 04:09 PM   #361
Dr.Sid
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 455
Something has to happen, I guess something will happen. If you tighten gun control you wont get safer country overnight. But in 50 years, who knows.
And yes, I know Breivik had his guns legal. But we here have a lot less such incidents than you do.

I mean bans cannot prevent this .. but maybe they can lower the chance. Every live counts.
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:09 PM   #362
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
Then I suppose America and Americans should stop telling other countries what to do with their laws?
yep, I wouldn't sit here and tell people in the UK what they should or shouldn't do with their laws and/or PM's ...etc none of my bidness

Unless a country messes with us to the extent we have to engage in conflict, or request aid, I am not in favor of telling other countries what they should or shouldn't be doing in their own backyards.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:10 PM   #363
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,570
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
and pardon me for saying this, but anyone who doesn't live in the USA has no business telling us what we should or shouldn't be doing in regards to our constitution.
Why?

I personally think more input from various sources helps.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:10 PM   #364
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 33,964
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Would you be saying the same thing about rifles or shotguns if those types were used? If I recall, there is no shortage of those kinds of fireams in the USA and where you live.

Ranb
Personally, I'd like to see all guns banned, but can accept that there are some legal uses for them. Legal uses do not include self defence. And, compared to the US, I would say that there is a relative shortage.

Automatics and semi-automatics have been banned since the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, and there has been a lack of multiple killings with firearms since.

ETA, just checked. Around 5% of the population of Australia own firearms, modtly for either hunting of killing feral animals.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill

Last edited by lionking; 14th December 2012 at 04:14 PM.
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:12 PM   #365
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,570
Originally Posted by Chris L View Post
If you are a law abiding citizen there is. If you aren't, not so much.
Because laws don't affect criminals?
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:13 PM   #366
Niggle
Basement Cat's
Evil Twin Skippy
 
Niggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 663
I grew up in Newtown. This happened down the road from my father. I still live about a half-hour away. These were not my children, but they could easily have been the children of my classmates.

Right now, it doesn't matter how he got the bloody guns. He had them, and he used them, and twenty children and at least six innocent adults are dead.

My sincere condolences to the parents and relatives of the victims, and to the responders who have to deal with this horrible tragedy as well.
__________________
Niggle is correct...
Niggle is extremely correct.

-Remirol
Niggle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:13 PM   #367
joesixpack
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If having a gun was illegal, it would be easier to identify if a crazy person was going to use a gun to kill people.
That's not actually an answer to the question. At least, not a sound answer.

I'll certainly allow that access to firearms makes certain crimes easier, answering the questions of why people wish to commit these crimes and how they can be identified before doing so would probably be much more productive than a blanket ban on guns.
__________________
Generally sober 'til noon.
joesixpack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:15 PM   #368
scarlettinlondon
Critical Thinker
 
scarlettinlondon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 399
I think our differences are because of what we consider to be 'normal'. Because I come from the UK I see a gun free country as normal and therefore the pro gun lobby as irrational. Because I am frightened about a gun toting culture I am struggling to see it as normal.

It may be the case that you see gun ownership as normal, and my insistance that it's dangerous as bizarre.
Perhaps you are as frightened by the concept of your guns being taken away from you by law as I am by the prospect of living in a country full of guns.

Because I was frankly bemused as to why I am called delusional, silly, and irrational for insisting that a gun free country is better. I don't have any experience of living in a gun carrying culture. Perhaps it feels as safe to you as a gun free society feels to me.

Do you feel protected personally by guns? Or are they for recreational shooting? (which we also have in the UK by the way, safely and freely, in gun clubs)

So here in the UK you can carry a gun if you want for hunting. For protecting your land from predators if you are a farmer. For recreational target shooting. You can keep guns locked up in a case at home securely if you are any one of thos people. Some policeman who are specially trained can also carry them if the situation warrants.

What we don't have is guns available for those who cannot demonstrate one of the above. Ie, if you are carrying a gun for any other purpose. You cannot carry a gun to defend yourself. There is no need because there aren't guns about to defend yourself from.

Are you so frightened of your fellow citizens that you feel the need to protect yourself with fire arms?

In london, lots of people have a readily available bat, rolling pin or similar behind their front door. Not most, but enough. I carry a maglight in my camper van for the same reason, but not in my house.

I understand the need to feel secure in your own home. Luckily in the UK I will likely never need my maglight. This is because burglars don't go about armed in general. A swat to the head will be enough.

Can you see that I am trying to see your points of view?
I understand the need to feel safe. From experience, in a gun free culture, I feel generally safe walking about the streets of London. I take care not be in truly unsafe situations. I would really really hate to have a gun at home. I would hate to feel it was neccessary. I will feel very scared if I felt that I needed one.

Do you feel that unsafe in your own country?
scarlettinlondon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:15 PM   #369
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Personally, I'd like to see all guns banned, but can accept that there are some legal uses for them. Legal uses do not include self defence. And, compared to the US, I would say that there is a relative shortage.

Automatics and semi-automatics have been banned since the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, and there has been a lack of multiple killings with firearms since.
It's hard to compare the two countries though. Australia has one 15th the population of the USA and has no border really, so any illegal guns shipped in have to come on ships and that's a lot tougher to pull off then just paying the border cop off and driving 20 semi trucks filled to the brim across the vast border of Mexico and the USA.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:16 PM   #370
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,445
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
As I've said elsewhere; Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns just make it a hell of a lot easier.
That got a laugh on Drop The Dead Donkey. True as well.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:16 PM   #371
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 8,745
Suppose it could be demonstrated that stricter gun control laws would lead to significantly fewer homicides per year. Would any of the pro-gun people present then support stricter gun control laws?
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:17 PM   #372
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,738
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Legal uses do not include self defence.
There is a law there that says it is illegal for anyone to use a gun to defend themself? What is it?

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:17 PM   #373
Chris L
Graduate Poster
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,317
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Because laws don't affect criminals?
For someone planning to rob a liquor store (or kill a kindergarten class), the idea of having to break any local firearms statutes to do it wouldn't stop them.
__________________
"The lie is different at every level."
Richard C. Hoagland
Chris L is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:17 PM   #374
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,570
Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
That's not actually an answer to the question. At least, not a sound answer.

I'll certainly allow that access to firearms makes certain crimes easier, answering the questions of why people wish to commit these crimes and how they can be identified before doing so would probably be much more productive than a blanket ban on guns.
I think doing both would be even more effective.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:18 PM   #375
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,738
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Suppose it could be demonstrated that stricter gun control laws would lead to significantly fewer homicides per year. Would any of the pro-gun people present then support stricter gun control laws?
Maybe. Can you present any examples that have worked?
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:19 PM   #376
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,570
Originally Posted by Chris L View Post
For someone planning to rob a liquor store (or kill a kindergarten class), the idea of having to break any local firearms statutes to do it wouldn't stop them.
Therefore, let's make it easier for criminals to get guns.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:20 PM   #377
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 33,964
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
It's hard to compare the two countries though. Australia has one 15th the population of the USA and has no border really, so any illegal guns shipped in have to come on ships and that's a lot tougher to pull off then just paying the border cop off and driving 20 semi trucks filled to the brim across the vast border of Mexico and the USA.
The problem in the US is not illegal guns, and I don't see the relevance to my post.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:20 PM   #378
CplFerro
Graduate Poster
 
CplFerro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,906
Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
I don't understand why you don't just arm all the teachers.
Dear Dr,

Yes, I agree entirely. Are they worried the elementary students are going to tackle a teacher and snatch a pistol?

Cpl Ferro
CplFerro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:20 PM   #379
Chris L
Graduate Poster
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,317
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Therefore, let's make it easier for criminals to get guns.
Ah Mr. Strawman, a pleasure to see you again.
__________________
"The lie is different at every level."
Richard C. Hoagland
Chris L is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:21 PM   #380
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
I don't own any guns. I don't hunt nor target shoot, there have been a few times I wish I owned a gun (my house was burglarized while I was home just 6 months ago). But I defend the rights of my fellow Americans to own guns. I also know that a ban would just be another Prohibition, with the underworld battling to control the gun market and probably increase violence rather than stop it.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:23 PM   #381
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The problem in the US is not illegal guns, and I don't see the relevance to my post.
I am saying that IF the USA adopted the gun laws of Australia the result would not be the same due to the differences I posted.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:23 PM   #382
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,155
Originally Posted by scarlettinlondon View Post
You cannot carry a gun to defend yourself. There is no need because there aren't guns about to defend yourself from.
And how do you defend yourself against a knife if you're physically weak?

Quote:
Are you so frightened of your fellow citizens that you feel the need to protect yourself with fire arms?
Are you so frightened of your fellow citizens that you feel the need to deprive even the law-abiding ones of guns?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:23 PM   #383
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 33,964
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
There is a law there that says it is illegal for anyone to use a gun to defend themself? What is it?

Ranb
There are a range of legal reasons to own firearms, hunting and controlling feral animals are the main ones. You cannot register or own a firearm if you give the reason "self defence".
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:24 PM   #384
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,570
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
CNN reporting a school shooting.
How dare they mention guns might be involved. Do they just want us to turn into the USSR with guns banned and everyone forced to worship Obama?
That's my prediction of a reaction on at least one gun forum before the day is over.

So the question is: why are guns the one subject that cannot be discussed civilly?


Holy crap: someone on CNN just said it couldn't be a student reacting to bullying because it isn't a high school so bullying doesn't happen there!
As someone from the state in question, humor just seems weak. Very, very weak.
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:25 PM   #385
Chris L
Graduate Poster
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,317
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
There are a range of legal reasons to own firearms, hunting and controlling feral animals are the main ones. You cannot register or own a firearm if you give the reason "self defence".
Why is self defense in quotes? You don't believe in the concept at all?
__________________
"The lie is different at every level."
Richard C. Hoagland
Chris L is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:27 PM   #386
Kilaak Kommander
Critical Thinker
 
Kilaak Kommander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 338
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
and pardon me for saying this, but anyone who doesn't live in the USA has no business telling us what we should or shouldn't be doing in regards to our constitution.
Nobody is holding a gun to our head and telling us how we should live. They're suggesting possible alternatives from the perspective of one who lives the alternative.

Originally Posted by StankApe
It's a terrible tragedy, and there will be others. It's the price we pay to have the freedom to go where we want, say what we want, own what we want and do what we want.

It sucks, but the alternative is worse
Is it? Have you seriously given thought to the alternatives? Is life really so terrible outside the good ol' USA? I'm a gun-owning American, mind you, but there are any number of other places I'd be proud to call home. I don't think I'd miss the gun. But they'd better damn well have Keurigs.
Kilaak Kommander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:27 PM   #387
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 35,431
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Where is your evidence that I or my guns have ever been a danger to anyone?
I didn't say they were.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:28 PM   #388
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 33,964
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And how do you defend yourself against a knife if you're physically weak?
I can't speak for Scarlett, but I don't live my life worrying that something like this is even remotely possible. It must be debilitating to live with such fear.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:29 PM   #389
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
the alternative I am referring to is having our various freedoms taken away to "protect the public". IMO, once you start cherry picking the parts of the Constitution you like and ditching the parts you don't, you've lost.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:30 PM   #390
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 33,964
Originally Posted by Chris L View Post
Why is self defense in quotes? You don't believe in the concept at all?
I don't believe in owning guns for self defence.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:31 PM   #391
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I can't speak for Scarlett, but I don't live my life worrying that something like this is even remotely possible. It must be debilitating to live with such fear.
amusing hyperbole noted


very few people live in fear here, gun owners or not, the USA is a wonderful place to live. (except for South Dakota)
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:31 PM   #392
DDWW
Muse
 
DDWW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 640
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Personally, I'd like to see all guns banned, but can accept that there are some legal uses for them. Legal uses do not include self defence. And, compared to the US, I would say that there is a relative shortage.

Automatics and semi-automatics have been banned since the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, and there has been a lack of multiple killings with firearms since.

ETA, just checked. Around 5% of the population of Australia own firearms, modtly for either hunting of killing feral animals.
Just a question. When those firearms were banned were the owners compensated at retail value?

DDWW
DDWW is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:32 PM   #393
Chris L
Graduate Poster
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,317
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I don't believe in owning guns for self defence.
What would you approve of owning in order to defend oneself?
__________________
"The lie is different at every level."
Richard C. Hoagland
Chris L is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:32 PM   #394
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
 
Halfcentaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,645
Why stop at welfare and service industry jobs? Let's have mandatory regular drug tests for gun owners as well as initial mental health check ups for every purchase of a fire arm as well as annual mental health exams as a follow up. Weeee.
Halfcentaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:33 PM   #395
Alferd_Packer
Philosopher
 
Alferd_Packer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,550
That evil bee-atch, Orly Taitz couldn't help herselt on this subject.

Quote:
I believe by now you understand, we have to exercise our right to bear arms and defend ourselves from criminals and terrorists. It takes time for the police to arrive. Police cannot protect you. If only one teacher were to carry a gun, were to exercise his right to bear arms, 18 children and 8 teachers would have been alive. It is more and more clear: the government cannot protect us from criminals, the judiciary cannot protect us from criminals. Corrupt and treasonous judges allowed a criminal with forged IDs and a stolen SSN in the White House. We came to the point, where the government is there mostly to take from us the fruit of hour work, where from Jnuary 1 until August we work to feed the government. Is that the government the founders of this nation envisioned and fought for?
Warning, don't go to her site without protection if you surf with windows.


http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=366213

Feel free to leave a comment, don't expect her to approve it, but feel free to tell her what a brainless idiot she it.
__________________
No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post
Alferd_Packer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:36 PM   #396
Safe-Keeper
Philosopher
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,872
Originally Posted by Chris L View Post
Again you seem to equate not being able to own a gun legally with not being able to own a gun.
Again you generalize. Google "deterrent".
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:37 PM   #397
joesixpack
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I think doing both would be even more effective.

"We could prevent spree killing by banning the means"

"We could prevent spree killing if we understood better why people do it"

This discussion (and every other discussion) seems to be about only doing one of them. Can you tell me where the work is being done to determine the other? Do they have a lobbying organization? A celebrity spokes-person? What laws are being proposed that will address the questions that I've asked? None, as far as i can tell. It seems that most commentators on this issue wish to see guns deeply restricted or banned, and most don't even bother to pay lip service to the question of "Why?". I'll be happy to talk about gun control once my question has been seriously addressed.
__________________
Generally sober 'til noon.
joesixpack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:37 PM   #398
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,643
I DO think having an armed security officer at each school would be a good idea though....

Maybe excessive and expensive, but I notice none of these shootings happen at inner city schools where there is an armed officer on site.
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:38 PM   #399
Alferd_Packer
Philosopher
 
Alferd_Packer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,550
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I DO think having an armed security officer at each school would be a good idea though....

Maybe excessive and expensive, but I notice none of these shootings happen at inner city schools where there is an armed officer on site.
The have Chicago Police officers AND metal detectors at all CPS schools.

The kids just wait until after school to shoot each other.
__________________
No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post
Alferd_Packer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 04:39 PM   #400
joesixpack
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I don't believe in owning guns for self defence.
Then you shouldn't buy a gun for self defense. Other people feel differently, so they still have the right to "believe in owning guns for self defense", and act on that belief.
__________________
Generally sober 'til noon.
joesixpack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:06 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.