Alternative medicine - What's the harm?

zakur · 21st June 2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

On the morning of June 12, Charlene Dorcy loaded 2-year-old Brittney and 4-year-old Jessica into her white Toyota and drove them more than 80 miles to an abandoned rock quarry. She made them sit on the ground and then shot them with her husband's .22-caliber rifle.

[...]

In 1997, she was interviewed anonymously by The Columbian newspaper in Vancouver for a feature on the stigma of mental illness. The story called Charlene a "success story" because she had managed to keep her schizophrenia in check through medication.

But soon after the article was published, Dorcy — with her husband's encouragement — stopped taking Tegretol, an anti-psychotic drug.

"The side effects included liver damage and losing your eyesight," Robert said. "I said: This isn't good."

Instead, she switched to St. John's Wort, an herbal remedy commonly used to treat depression. Studies suggest the herb can exacerbate psychosis in schizophrenics.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 21st June 2004, 04:52 PM

Sigh.

~~ Paul

HarryKeogh · 21st June 2004, 04:58 PM

I have a feeling (just a feeling, no evidence) the main cause would be her not taking her prescription medicine rather than the herbal medicine excaberating her mental illness.

either way, goddamn shame.

Sloe_Bohemian · 21st June 2004, 05:08 PM

I've listened to 'believers' who begin a paragraph describing how wonderful it is for each person who dies... to be dead... because it must have been their time... and the soul lives on and and and and it's all good and all wonderful all the time...

... and before they finish the paragraph, they backtrack with loads of clarification that they never said you shouldn't go to a doctor too... it's just nice to be able to supplement medicine with something you feel good about. Or some variation of this "crap" that involves not blaming me for flushing your pills just because I told you cancer could be cured through prayer.

People don't usually get mad at the fireman who tells them that gasoline and candles are not a good way to soften babies skin and light the nursery (respectively). Yet they still resent rational thinkers.

HopkinsMedStudent · 21st June 2004, 05:37 PM

Husband should be charged with wreckless endangerment.

He knew his wife was having trouble coping and yet he did nothing to try and help.

Shame on him.

Art Vandelay · 21st June 2004, 10:26 PM

Wreckless endangerment? How is it wreckless endangerment? Sounds to me like to me like the woman was a wreck.

yersinia29 · 22nd June 2004, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Art Vandelay
Wreckless endangerment? How is it wreckless endangerment? Sounds to me like to me like the woman was a wreck.

yes, and a mother in charge of full time care of 2 children who is a "wreck" is a threat to her children's well being.

Husband ignored that and pretended like everything was fine

Therefore he's guilty of wreckless endangerment on behalf of the kids.

Doc Dish · 22nd June 2004, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yersinia29 yes, and a mother in charge of full time care of 2 children who is a "wreck" is a threat to her children's well being.

Husband ignored that and pretended like everything was fine

Therefore he's guilty of wreckless endangerment on behalf of the kids.

I'm guessing Art's making a pun on your misspelling of reckless

Quote:

"The side effects included liver damage and losing your eyesight," Robert said. "I said: This isn't good."

Not good? As opposed to the side effects not taking the Tegretol being the death of your wife and children, I suppose.

This is plain sad.

Benguin · 22nd June 2004, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarryKeogh
I have a feeling (just a feeling, no evidence) the main cause would be her not taking her prescription medicine rather than the herbal medicine excaberating her mental illness.

either way, goddamn shame.

I suspect it rather hinges on whether she'd decided she could manage without her medication or whether she was (had been?) convinced the St John's Wort would be just as good.

It also seems to have an interesting list of side-effects

Eos of the Eons · 22nd June 2004, 06:47 PM

I have founds dads are quite brainless when it comes to kids being left in the care of ill moms. They just don't believe the moms could hurt them. All parents need to learn more about the dangers of mental illness. No child should be left with an unmedicated schizophrenic.

Jeff R · 23rd June 2004, 08:17 AM

I'm not willing to blame this one on either faith or herbs. I'll give the husband most of the blame for not doing everything he could to protect his children, but I think conventional medicine and society can share the blame with him.

Would this have happened if conventional medicine had better treatments for schizophrenia? Some sources suggest Tegretol is a last resort for schizophrenia treatment used when every other option fails. I have to wonder if it was really as effective for this woman as the article implies.

Should we as a society allow seriously mentally ill people to reproduce, and to raise children? This woman may successfully plead insanity. If a mentally ill person is not responsible for her own actions, how can we allow her to be responsible for two children?

Should we as a society do more to prevent mentally ill people from owning guns?

HarryKeogh · 23rd June 2004, 10:36 AM

and remember Alternative therapies can be pretty awful as well

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...7783414B7F0000

plus this came out today (WHO warns of alt. medicines)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5270111/

21st June 2004, 04:01 PM	#1
zakur Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,264	Alternative medicine - What's the harm? Woman kills children Quote: On the morning of June 12, Charlene Dorcy loaded 2-year-old Brittney and 4-year-old Jessica into her white Toyota and drove them more than 80 miles to an abandoned rock quarry. She made them sit on the ground and then shot them with her husband's .22-caliber rifle. [...] In 1997, she was interviewed anonymously by The Columbian newspaper in Vancouver for a feature on the stigma of mental illness. The story called Charlene a "success story" because she had managed to keep her schizophrenia in check through medication. But soon after the article was published, Dorcy — with her husband's encouragement — stopped taking Tegretol, an anti-psychotic drug. "The side effects included liver damage and losing your eyesight," Robert said. "I said: This isn't good." Instead, she switched to St. John's Wort, an herbal remedy commonly used to treat depression. Studies suggest the herb can exacerbate psychosis in schizophrenics.
zakur Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,264

21st June 2004, 04:52 PM	#2
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 19,133	Sigh. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny, Tim

21st June 2004, 04:58 PM	#3
HarryKeogh Guest Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,319	I have a feeling (just a feeling, no evidence) the main cause would be her not taking her prescription medicine rather than the herbal medicine excaberating her mental illness. either way, goddamn shame.
HarryKeogh Guest Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,319

21st June 2004, 05:08 PM	#4
Sloe_Bohemian Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 350	I've listened to 'believers' who begin a paragraph describing how wonderful it is for each person who dies... to be dead... because it must have been their time... and the soul lives on and and and and it's all good and all wonderful all the time... ... and before they finish the paragraph, they backtrack with loads of clarification that they never said you shouldn't go to a doctor too... it's just nice to be able to supplement medicine with something you feel good about. Or some variation of this "crap" that involves not blaming me for flushing your pills just because I told you cancer could be cured through prayer. People don't usually get mad at the fireman who tells them that gasoline and candles are not a good way to soften babies skin and light the nursery (respectively). Yet they still resent rational thinkers.
	__________________ ----------------------------- Every event in life is more complex and intricate than is bourne out in the results. Like the Mona Lisa, the portrait is often simple and straight forward... but the painting of it shows true genius. And thus is such as is this letter, the sending of which involved more than just the simple words strung together here.... I yelled at the monitor too.

21st June 2004, 05:37 PM	#5
HopkinsMedStudent Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 210	Husband should be charged with wreckless endangerment. He knew his wife was having trouble coping and yet he did nothing to try and help. Shame on him.
HopkinsMedStudent Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 210

21st June 2004, 10:26 PM	#6
Art Vandelay Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4,787	Wreckless endangerment? How is it wreckless endangerment? Sounds to me like to me like the woman was a wreck.

22nd June 2004, 05:05 AM	#7
yersinia29 Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 165	Quote: Originally posted by Art Vandelay Wreckless endangerment? How is it wreckless endangerment? Sounds to me like to me like the woman was a wreck. yes, and a mother in charge of full time care of 2 children who is a "wreck" is a threat to her children's well being. Husband ignored that and pretended like everything was fine Therefore he's guilty of wreckless endangerment on behalf of the kids.
yersinia29 Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 165

22nd June 2004, 06:01 AM	#8
Doc Dish Scholar Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 92	Quote: Originally posted by yersinia29 yes, and a mother in charge of full time care of 2 children who is a "wreck" is a threat to her children's well being. Husband ignored that and pretended like everything was fine Therefore he's guilty of wreckless endangerment on behalf of the kids. I'm guessing Art's making a pun on your misspelling of reckless Quote: "The side effects included liver damage and losing your eyesight," Robert said. "I said: This isn't good." Not good? As opposed to the side effects not taking the Tegretol being the death of your wife and children, I suppose. This is plain sad.
Doc Dish Scholar Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 92	__________________ Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate

22nd June 2004, 06:56 AM	#9
Benguin Too Chilled For The Anti-Homeopathy Illuminati Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,897	Quote: Originally posted by HarryKeogh I have a feeling (just a feeling, no evidence) the main cause would be her not taking her prescription medicine rather than the herbal medicine excaberating her mental illness. either way, goddamn shame. I suspect it rather hinges on whether she'd decided she could manage without her medication or whether she was (had been?) convinced the St John's Wort would be just as good. It also seems to have an interesting list of side-effects
	__________________ It has been said cats have nine lives which, if true, makes them great candidates for experimentation. 100,000 medical doctors say go read this before quoting their articles. Probably. Voltaire "Atheism - the vice of a few intelligent people"

22nd June 2004, 06:47 PM	#10
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 13,749	I have founds dads are quite brainless when it comes to kids being left in the care of ill moms. They just don't believe the moms could hurt them. All parents need to learn more about the dangers of mental illness. No child should be left with an unmedicated schizophrenic.
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

23rd June 2004, 08:17 AM	#11
Jeff R Scholar Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 98	I'm not willing to blame this one on either faith or herbs. I'll give the husband most of the blame for not doing everything he could to protect his children, but I think conventional medicine and society can share the blame with him. Would this have happened if conventional medicine had better treatments for schizophrenia? Some sources suggest Tegretol is a last resort for schizophrenia treatment used when every other option fails. I have to wonder if it was really as effective for this woman as the article implies. Should we as a society allow seriously mentally ill people to reproduce, and to raise children? This woman may successfully plead insanity. If a mentally ill person is not responsible for her own actions, how can we allow her to be responsible for two children? Should we as a society do more to prevent mentally ill people from owning guns?
Jeff R Scholar Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 98

23rd June 2004, 10:36 AM	#12
HarryKeogh Guest Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,319	and remember Alternative therapies can be pretty awful as well http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...7783414B7F0000 plus this came out today (WHO warns of alt. medicines) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5270111/
HarryKeogh Guest Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,319