ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 30th December 2012, 09:26 AM   #161
Andrew Wiggin
Master Poster
 
Andrew Wiggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,914
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The folks who are actually dancing in blood are the manufacturers and retailers. Every slaughter of innocents helps pump up sales.
Given the sequence of events, a logical observer would conclude that rhetoric about banning something pumps up sales. I bet liquor stores did a brisk business as the Volstead act began to be enforced too.
__________________
"Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the
world." - Arthur Schopenhauer

"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled,
the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in
them?' " - H. G. Wells
Andrew Wiggin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 09:35 AM   #162
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,965
How about 15 round assault weapon!!



LOL!! Nice, you've outlawed the two of the most popular handguns in America!!

Nice going!! Now what will those maniacs use to go on armed shooting sprees??



Oh ****. Holds 8 rounds No waiting period.

Now what? Go back to black powder rifles?

Wanna try again at this definition of an assault weapon????

Last edited by triforcharity; 30th December 2012 at 09:38 AM.
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 09:35 AM   #163
Fast Eddie B
Master Poster
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 2,077
Meet The Press had an interesting segment about 40 minutes in.

It included Tom Brokaw holding up a Shotgun News and saying he subscribed.

Plenty there to agree or disagree with in the discussion - just putting it out there. There's a Meet The Press app that you can watch it on, possibly after some delay.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 09:50 AM   #164
Nessie
Philosopher
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,167
The more I read, the more I think trying to ban weapons is not the way to go in the USA.

The only agreed on issue is to keep guns off criminals and nuts, so why not concentrate on getting the guns off them?
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 09:58 AM   #165
shawmutt
Squirrel Murderer
 
shawmutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The more I read, the more I think trying to ban weapons is not the way to go in the USA.

The only agreed on issue is to keep guns off criminals and nuts, so why not concentrate on getting the guns off them?
Yep. Enforce the laws already on the books. I say free those incarcerated on non-violent drug charges. Legalize pot--extra revenue and just might chill us Americans the hell out. All the extra space that just opened up in the prisons can be used to put away those with firearm charges. Stop this nonsense:

"Eighty-two percent of all jail time imposed by Baltimore’s Criminal Courts for gun offenders charged with [misdemeanor gun] crimes this year was suspended." http://www.baltimorecity.gov/Residen...tatistics.aspx

Last edited by shawmutt; 30th December 2012 at 10:00 AM.
shawmutt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 10:01 AM   #166
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The more I read, the more I think trying to ban weapons is not the way to go in the USA.

The only agreed on issue is to keep guns off criminals and nuts, so why not concentrate on getting the guns off them?
That's what the NRA keeps saying, and yet it's not working. This is because access to guns is so easy here because of the lax restrictions.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 10:22 AM   #167
Nessie
Philosopher
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,167
Originally Posted by shawmutt View Post
Yep. Enforce the laws already on the books. I say free those incarcerated on non-violent drug charges. Legalize pot--extra revenue and just might chill us Americans the hell out. All the extra space that just opened up in the prisons can be used to put away those with firearm charges. Stop this nonsense:

"Eighty-two percent of all jail time imposed by Baltimore’s Criminal Courts for gun offenders charged with [misdemeanor gun] crimes this year was suspended." http://www.baltimorecity.gov/Residen...tatistics.aspx
The non violent drug users in the UK are primarily in prison because they failed to pay fines, do community service or failed drug testing and treatment orders. They are not there for the original charge. I don't know how it works out in the USA, but if it is the same then it is not a simple matter of releasing such criminals as they they go on to ignore even more the original punishment.

People who commit a crime whilst in possession of gun, commit a gun crime such as illegal possession or act as illegal dealers should be looking at long term prison sentences, in all cases.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 10:25 AM   #168
Nessie
Philosopher
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,167
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
That's what the NRA keeps saying, and yet it's not working. This is because access to guns is so easy here because of the lax restrictions.
It appears to be more to do with failure to enforce and punish that the actual laws. If you start by enforcing the laws as they are, switching to the maximum punishments available, you will then see which ones work and which ones do not and then start to look at any changes needed.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #169
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It appears to be more to do with failure to enforce and punish that the actual laws. If you start by enforcing the laws as they are, switching to the maximum punishments available, you will then see which ones work and which ones do not and then start to look at any changes needed.
I don't think you understand the gun show loophole. In the USA, a person can resell their gun, legally, to anyone without any background check.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 11:17 AM   #170
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 18,490
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
I don't understand this part. You're basically trying to use a variation of the No True Scotsman argument. The issue of gun violence (and accidental discharges) is at the very heart of this debate, so no, that's not off limits and I'm not going to spot you points to make it easier. The problem is that once again, up until he let his kid fire that uzi, he was part of that group of "responsible gun owners" we keep hearing about. And then he wasn't. And in this case, he lost his own kid. But the kid could have easily killed someone else, like your kid, or your wife, or your mother. And that's because guns are deadly, and we don't have laws that say "you can't let your damn eight year old fire an uzi". So I don't grant your parameters, sorry.
Again, you're trying to make them magically disappear. We were talking about a workable solution. Accidents happen, I'm not trying to make light of this but on the same note we could bring up hundreds of ways people get killed that we also have no real way to control. You keep trying to make this emotional, I'm trying to discuss a practical solution.
__________________
Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join Team 13232!

"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 01:54 PM   #171
Nessie
Philosopher
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,167
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I don't think you understand the gun show loophole. In the USA, a person can resell their gun, legally, to anyone without any background check.
I do understand it. It was not talking about it, I was talking about existing laws.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 01:57 PM   #172
Kestrel
Philosopher
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,275
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
How about 15 round assault weapon!!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...ESOS/GLOCK.jpg

LOL!! Nice, you've outlawed the two of the most popular handguns in America!!
Also one of the most popular guns in the criminal trade. Go ahead and ban the damn things. Too damn handy for killing sprees.
Kestrel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 02:01 PM   #173
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I do understand it. It was not talking about it, I was talking about existing laws.
It's this loophole that allows people to buy gun that probably shouldn't buy them. The loophole should be closed. All gun sales should be through a licensed dealer with background check and waiting period required.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 02:03 PM   #174
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Also one of the most popular guns in the criminal trade. Go ahead and ban the damn things. Too damn handy for killing sprees.
I can live with that.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 03:15 PM   #175
Fast Eddie B
Master Poster
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 2,077
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I give a Krugerrand to my neighbor in exchange for an AR15.

In the world some are painting here...

1) Do I go to jail, and is it a misdemeanor or a felony?

2) Does he go to jail, and is it a misdemeanor or a felony?

3) What mechanism is involved that a private transaction like this would ever be discovered by law enforcement, assuming that the weapons are never used in a crime.

There's a lot of devil in a lot of details in this imagined scenario. Short of a police state, private transactions will always be "below the radar". And will make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

Be careful what you wish for!
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 03:42 PM   #176
Unabogie
Philosopher
 
Unabogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,688
Originally Posted by NOT Fast Eddie B View Post
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I give a Krugerrand to my neighbor in exchange for some kiddie porn.

In the world some are painting here...

1) Do I go to jail, and is it a misdemeanor or a felony?

2) Does he go to jail, and is it a misdemeanor or a felony?

3) What mechanism is involved that a private transaction like this would ever be discovered by law enforcement, assuming that the kiddie porn is never discovered.

There's a lot of devil in a lot of details in this imagined scenario. Short of a police state, private transactions will always be "below the radar". And will make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.

Be careful what you wish for!
I changed your hypothetical to show how we deal with that very question and how silly it is to throw your hands up just because something is under the table. If you got busted, you'd be prosecuted, the same way you would if you got caught with something else that society restricts.
Unabogie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 04:43 PM   #177
Fast Eddie B
Master Poster
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 2,077
Got it.

The number of Americans involved in "illegal behavior" will increase geometrically - I predict tens of millions new felons will be created overnight if some of the laws suggested ever come to fruition.

Not sure that's what we need, but if you want to build the prisons for all these new criminals, which would include perhaps a majority of my friends and neighbors, then go for it.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 04:53 PM   #178
Unabogie
Philosopher
 
Unabogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,688
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Got it.

The number of Americans involved in "illegal behavior" will increase geometrically - I predict tens of millions new felons will be created overnight if some of the laws suggested ever come to fruition.

Not sure that's what we need, but if you want to build the prisons for all these new criminals, which would include perhaps a majority of my friends and neighbors, then go for it.
I'm not sure either. I haven't come out in favor of an all out ban. But I still reject the idea that we can't ban a few/some/most/all guns if we decided we needed to. The question should move to the second half of what you wrote, which is SHOULD we?
Unabogie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:09 PM   #179
Fast Eddie B
Master Poster
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 2,077
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
I'm not sure either. I haven't come out in favor of an all out ban. But I still reject the idea that we can't ban a few/some/most/all guns if we decided we needed to. The question should move to the second half of what you wrote, which is SHOULD we?
I would answer with a firm NO.

But I'm pretty sure all the rote arguments are out there, and this is a case of "never the twain shall meet".

You can search my posts if you'd like my position fleshed out.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:10 PM   #180
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
 
rikzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Got it.

The number of Americans involved in "illegal behavior" will increase geometrically - I predict tens of millions new felons will be created overnight if some of the laws suggested ever come to fruition.

Not sure that's what we need, but if you want to build the prisons for all these new criminals, which would include perhaps a majority of my friends and neighbors, then go for it.
that didn't stop the architects of the "drug war"

and BTW, personally I'd feel much easier living next door to my neighbor the pot smoker than I would to my neighbor the weapons hoarder.

-z
__________________
"Man, if Socrates thought like Rick, I don't think Socrates would have ever written a word." - "Red" (@ Red Pill Philosophy FB page)
rikzilla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:16 PM   #181
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
 
rikzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Hahaha! You're equating the awesome things in society like libraries and schools to your stupid guns? I've thought I'd heard it all, but that's just the best. You're precious. You think you and your guns are anything but a blight on the rest of us who don't hoard weapons like you do? We all gain from educated citizens. It fuels our economy. It provides skilled and dependable labor to our businesses. It's just a net plus all around. Guns are instruments of death and cost us $155B every year.

"Guns are the same as libraries and schools." Just totally sig material.
This is a religion to these people. Canada also won their west at the point of a gun, and yet...

I would pose this question to the gun "enthusiasts" on the board; "How, or in what ways would your life change if you no longer owned a weapon?"

-z
__________________
"Man, if Socrates thought like Rick, I don't think Socrates would have ever written a word." - "Red" (@ Red Pill Philosophy FB page)
rikzilla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:26 PM   #182
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
 
rikzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007


BTW; a t-shirt available at a gun show. 0_o
__________________
"Man, if Socrates thought like Rick, I don't think Socrates would have ever written a word." - "Red" (@ Red Pill Philosophy FB page)

Last edited by rikzilla; 30th December 2012 at 05:29 PM.
rikzilla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:39 PM   #183
Quad4_72
AI-EE-YAH!
 
Quad4_72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,265
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
This is a religion to these people. Canada also won their west at the point of a gun, and yet...

I would pose this question to the gun "enthusiasts" on the board; "How, or in what ways would your life change if you no longer owned a weapon?"

-z
Well one of my hobbies would be taken away. My life would not really change, but my ability to defend myself and my family would be taken away. What kind of answer did you expect?
__________________
Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
Quad4_72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:42 PM   #184
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,906
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The folks who are actually dancing in blood are the manufacturers and retailers. Every slaughter of innocents helps pump up sales.
Not really. It is the politicians that get on camera to promote a stupid gun ban that will not prevent any significant amount of crime and merely serves to make more victimless crimes. The same idiots who promoted the 1994 AWB are promoting this ban.

Remember when Obama was first elected and people were talking about a new AWB and guns and ammo flew off the shelves? It was an election and not a mass murder. The same kinds of misguided individuals that bought up guns and ammo back in 2008 are doing it again.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:57 PM   #185
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,906
Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
Gee, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize how difficult the past couple of weeks have been for you. Here is a link to a place that I'm sure can refer you to a counselor. Be sure to explain to them how traumatic it's been for you.
Actually it has been the last ten years or so. You ever read the banner at the top of the page? It says that this forum is "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way". That is the way it normally is.

But when guns come up for discussion, even not related to politics, people who discuss guns in a positive manner are open to personal attacks, libel and accusations of law breaking. I was sexually harassed on the forum for discussing guns for a year before the mods could be bothered to take any action to stop it. Some people who can be expected to be rational at most times will make up any bizarre claim they feel like and expect the others here to be stupid enough to believe it as long as it is about firearms. The mod team has told me that this is perfectly acceptable behavior, but criticizing it is not allowed.

On the JREF forum is it politically correct to bash gun owners just for discussing a hobby or when we correct the usual misconception that guns are illegal in the USA. If you do not believe me, ask Scrut, Crossbow, Tricky or any of the mods.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 05:58 PM   #186
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
 
rikzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
Well one of my hobbies would be taken away. My life would not really change, but my ability to defend myself and my family would be taken away. What kind of answer did you expect?
Personally speaking I can think of a lot of ways to continue to offer myself and my family protection enough from most dangers. Actually I have been doing this since about 1986.

-z
__________________
"Man, if Socrates thought like Rick, I don't think Socrates would have ever written a word." - "Red" (@ Red Pill Philosophy FB page)
rikzilla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 06:03 PM   #187
rikzilla
Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
 
rikzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Actually it has been the last ten years or so. You ever read the banner at the top of the page? It says that this forum is "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way". That is the way it normally is.

But when guns come up for discussion, even not related to politics, people who discuss guns in a positive manner are open to personal attacks, libel and accusations of law breaking. I was sexually harassed on the forum for discussing guns for a year before the mods could be bothered to take any action to stop it. Some people who can be expected to be rational at most times will make up any bizarre claim they feel like and expect the others here to be stupid enough to believe it as long as it is about firearms. The mod team has told me that this is perfectly acceptable behavior, but criticizing it is not allowed.

On the JREF forum is it politically correct to bash gun owners just for discussing a hobby or when we correct the usual misconception that guns are illegal in the USA. If you do not believe me, ask Scrut, Crossbow, Tricky or any of the mods.

Ranb


Seems to me that gun owners are well represented here,...more so than they once were back in the before time...
__________________
"Man, if Socrates thought like Rick, I don't think Socrates would have ever written a word." - "Red" (@ Red Pill Philosophy FB page)
rikzilla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 06:18 PM   #188
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,906
Things are improving. But why make up crap when the truth works better? We don't stand for it as a group when accusations of Obama's alien birth come up; ditto for claims that Bush let 9/11 happen on purpose. It just makes the forum look bad.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:45 PM   #189
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 6,225
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I've stated this before in other threads, but I would be more concerned if I encountered an armed adversary with a Marlin Guide Gun (lever action, 45/70)

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firear...bore/1895g.asp

Than the same adversary with an AK or AR platform rifle.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:48 PM   #190
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Personally speaking I can think of a lot of ways to continue to offer myself and my family protection enough from most dangers. Actually I have been doing this since about 1986.

-z
Murderers can always find a way to kill, even without guns. Self defense, however, is gun dependent....
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:52 PM   #191
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,965
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Also one of the most popular guns in the criminal trade. Go ahead and ban the damn things. Too damn handy for killing sprees.
Really? You have proof of this?

Too damn handy, but yet, the most recent killings being discussed, used "assault rifles".

LOL!! Wanna try again?
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:53 PM   #192
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,965
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
I changed your hypothetical to show how we deal with that very question and how silly it is to throw your hands up just because something is under the table. If you got busted, you'd be prosecuted, the same way you would if you got caught with something else that society restricts.
Um....guns are legal, kiddie porn is not. What a dumb attempt at being clever.
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:56 PM   #193
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,965
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
http://i.imgur.com/QNRXO.jpg

BTW; a t-shirt available at a gun show. 0_o
Head I get tail
Tails I get....

Hilarious!! Do you have a link to where I can get one?
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:57 PM   #194
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,965
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
This is a religion to these people. Canada also won their west at the point of a gun, and yet...

I would pose this question to the gun "enthusiasts" on the board; "How, or in what ways would your life change if you no longer owned a weapon?"

-z
I'd be a defenseless person for one, without the major component I would use to defend my life and that of my family for one.

I'd have a lot more money and time on my hands too. I'd be bored to tears on the weekends.....

That's a clown question....
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 07:58 PM   #195
Quad4_72
AI-EE-YAH!
 
Quad4_72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,265
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Personally speaking I can think of a lot of ways to continue to offer myself and my family protection enough from most dangers. Actually I have been doing this since about 1986.

-z
And in the event an armed robber enters your home?
__________________
Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
Quad4_72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 08:02 PM   #196
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 6,225
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
This is a religion to these people. Canada also won their west at the point of a gun, and yet...

I would pose this question to the gun "enthusiasts" on the board; "How, or in what ways would your life change if you no longer owned a weapon?"

-z
I can not envision a time where I would be denied the right to own and possess firearms while residing in the United States.

Nice scare quotes though.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 08:09 PM   #197
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
And in the event an armed robber enters your home?
I have locks on my doors.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 08:18 PM   #198
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 6,225
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I have locks on my doors.
So do I, as well as a steel front door and door frame, a dog, and an alarm service.

All of those things are nice and my homeowners insurance carrier likes them, I receive a discount, but they do not guarantee safety anymore than a firearm will.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 08:19 PM   #199
shawmutt
Squirrel Murderer
 
shawmutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Personally speaking I can think of a lot of ways to continue to offer myself and my family protection enough from most dangers. Actually I have been doing this since about 1986.

-z
Anti-gun argument #672: "Nothing bad has ever happened to me, therefore guns aren't necessary."

Standard rebuttal: Not everyone is as fortunate as you.
shawmutt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th December 2012, 08:23 PM   #200
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,740
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
So do I, as well as a steel front door and door frame, a dog, and an alarm service.

All of those things are nice and my homeowners insurance carrier likes them, I receive a discount, but they do not guarantee safety anymore than a firearm will.
Strange, i thought guns were effective for self defense against robbers.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:11 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.