ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags apollo hoax , moon landing hoax

Reply
Old 10th May 2013, 11:52 AM   #321
Peter May
Graduate Poster
 
Peter May's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by FatFreddy88 View Post
You talk as if your word were proof. It's not proof as you might be lying.

I maintain that this is such a basic, self-evident issue that nobody has to ask an expert to confirm it. If anyone wants to, I guarantee the objective expert will find the pro-Apollo camp's position laughable.

Here's an example of billowing dust in atmosphere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6FH7x0wB_I
(4:30 time mark)

Your position is that, if some dust-free sand is transported and placed, the erosion caused by transporting and placing it will be enough to create enough dust to cause dust clouds when it's driven over. The fact that this is wrong is very self-evident. The sand would have to be beaten with sledge hammers for hours and hours to create that much dust. Any twelve-year-old could explain this.

You people aren't fooling anybody. This issue is simply too basic.

Wrong.
If you do not understand this you should.


The truth has no political affiliations or aspirations, it cannot be bent by belief, it has no masters, nor is it open to debate. It remains simply the truth.

Ergo.
There can be no "clouds" as you suggest as there is no air. The dust is not supported by this medium, therefore the dust follows a trajectory determined by the action of the wheels with the dust and the local lunar gravity etc. OK
Think of it as many thousand of tiny golf balls being played by many thousands of number 9 irons.

Do you get it?

Last edited by Peter May; 10th May 2013 at 12:10 PM.
Peter May is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 11:58 AM   #322
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by LaurelHS View Post
He went "off-script" at least one other time when he walked over to Little West Crater for photographs. He thought geologists would be interested and it was a very short trip.
The geologists were ecstatic. This is why we get better science when we send intelligent, creative, curious humans on exploration missions.

Especially on Apollo 11 where there was no precedent for lunar surface operations, the flight plan wasn't etched in stone. According to Aldrin's debriefing
Originally Posted by Buzz Aldrin, Apollo 11 Technical Debrief, p. 10-12
No matter how many times you run through an EVA prep, to the best of the instructor's ability to put things in a logical sequence, when you're faced with doing these things there is a natural tendency to deviate somewhat from the printed sequence that you have. It's a rather complex operation. Nobody writes a checklist to tell you in the morning when you get up all the sequences you go through to put your clothes on, brush your teeth, shave, and all that. If you had one sitting there you wouldn't follow it the same every day. You would make small deviations just based upon what seems appropriate at that time. It is a very difficult thing to build a checklist for.
Each astronaut then goes on to describe many departures from the checklist order and the reasons for it. This was absolutely invaluable, and the reason for debriefing. The mission planners and instructors needed this feedback regarding what worked and what didn't. Armstrong and Aldrin were the first to try these checklists on the lunar surface, and NASA trusted them to note things that may have made sense back in someone's office on Earth -- or in the training rooms in full gravity, artificial light, and so forth -- but which didn't make sense once everything was apparent.

In this case Armstrong found that the LEC (the system of straps and pulleys used to ferry equipment down from the LM cabin) didn't work too well in lesser gravity, and was hard to use. The lesser weight of the straps meant there was too much slack, which meant they tangled more. So once he got it sorted out and working, he wanted to get all the equipment down at once. Otherwise he would have had to tie off his end of the strap and go do the contingency sample in daylight, then walk back and figure out the LEC all over again. That meant getting the camera down earlier than expected, and the only place to put the camera safely was on the RCU (chest unit). Hence he took a brief pan while the camera was attached.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 12:20 PM   #323
LaurelHS
Muse
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The geologists were ecstatic. This is why we get better science when we send intelligent, creative, curious humans on exploration missions.
And better photographs, like the unscheduled Earthrise photography on Apollo 8.
LaurelHS is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:33 PM   #324
Dcdrac
Philosopher
 
Dcdrac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,141
Do not need to wait the LRO has shown the pictures:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/revisited/
Dcdrac is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:35 PM   #325
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
What is this, a pissing contest.
Apparently so. You have taken it upon yourself to offer corrections.

Quote:
How exactly the Apollo era systems in effect computed a double integration is beside my point which is not open to contention.
I was speaking specifically of the Apollo guidance system. If you're going to offer an incorrect correction, don't tell me it's suddenly beside the point when you're wrong.

Quote:
This is what the systems must do by definition.
No. Orbital models do not double-integrate an acceleration.

Quote:
And of course in the Apollo era, the earth based dishes provided the location of spacecraft at moon range distances to within tens of feet. The accelerometer systems became in effect back ups.
No, the MSFN did not provide seamless coverage. The inertial system was the primary system, which was corrected every so often from MSFN downtracks. And it could operate autonomously.

Quote:
Just kidding there Jay. Read your posts. I am assuming you are a guy. Quite capable young man, complimenti!
Yes, as I said I do this for a living. What exactly do you do?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:37 PM   #326
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Maybe they got so upset because stamps so examined could be shown to have not been irradiated. Perhaps the radiation would not be much, but stamps taken into space would show a signal, etched into the backing gum, paste , of the stamp.
No, that's not how radiation works.

Quote:
Love to hear some feedback.
My feedback is a recommendation to take some remedial physics classes.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:41 PM   #327
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Sure it is how radiation works.
Nope. Irradiated objects do not "store up" the radiation.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:43 PM   #328
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Sure it is how radiation works. We can do the experiment here on Honolulu today. I'll take one stamp and put it out in the RADIATION, out in the sun, gum side up. I'll take another and keep it in my room for the rest of the afternoon. It is 12:40 now and will report back tomorrow.

Science begins with observation.
That has as much to do with how "radiation" works as putting a stamp next to a RADIO.
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:43 PM   #329
FramerDave
Muse
 
FramerDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 819
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
My friends and I came up with a new conspiracy angle on Apollo sitting around the wall at Haleiwa last evening. Recall how upset everybody got when the Apollo 15 astronauts took the stamps into space and sold them on earth? Maybe they got so upset because stamps so examined could be shown to have not been irradiated. Perhaps the radiation would not be much, but stamps taken into space would show a signal, etched into the backing gum, paste , of the stamp.

I personally think we'll have to wait until 2026 to settle this, but anybody out there have a comment on this one? Love to hear some feedback. Our first original foray into such a field of suggestion.

Cheers!
I'm sure Oahu has some good home improvement stores. You may want to head to one over the weekend and pick up a good sturdy ladder.
__________________
"You're likely to be the next one to get sucked up in a spaceship and butt-diddled and dropped off at the Seven Eleven." mayday

"If you want to see what baby oil does to lactating breasts pm me your email." mayday
FramerDave is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:44 PM   #330
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
You could say that our claim is stamps taken into space on a 9 day trip would have telltale features that stamps remaining here on earth would not have.
Such as?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:47 PM   #331
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
HonoluluFilly, I can't help notice you backing away from the guidance and navigation question. You do realize that vast majority of space flight is unaccelerated, don't you? You do realize that the vast majority of state-vector manipulation is integrating an orbital model, don't you?

I also can't help notice you backing away from the Armstrong photography question. Did you finally locate the crew debriefing and realize that the flight plan and checklists were not as sacrosanct as you told us they must have been?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:47 PM   #332
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
I may be wrong, tough I doubt it. Do you honestly believe that stamps taken into space could not be shown to have features different to stamps remaining on earth due to more electromagnetic exposure?
First you're talking about radiation, then you're talking about sunlight and now you're talking about electromagnets? What, exactly, are you thinking "radiation" means?
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:49 PM   #333
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
See, I got you thinking.
No, I'm calling you on your hopelessly naive physics claim. You are claiming that irradiated postage stamps would somehow be detectably altered. I'm going to pin you down on what exactly you think those alterations would be. My guess is that you don't have the faintest clue and that you're going to continue to wave your hands in the hope of avoiding scrutiny.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:51 PM   #334
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
For example, X rays are filtered by our atmosphere. Would X-rays leave a mark on stamps? YES THEY WOULD!
Describe exactly what "marks" they would leave on the stamps. I'm a professional engineer, so be very specific.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:52 PM   #335
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Even though I am doing the stamp experiment, it is running right now, it was proposed a bit tongue in cheek, but the X-ray angle is deadly serious and a great point.
You didn't answer his question. Please describe exactly what you think "radiation" would be in this case, and exactly what effects you think would be observed in an irradiated object.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:54 PM   #336
LaurelHS
Muse
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
Apollo 15 was not the only mission that carried objects to the Moon that were later distributed to people on Earth. Michael Collins wrote about this in Carrying The Fire (Chapter 11). He said he carried mementoes in his Personal Preference Kit that belonged to other people, including a half-inch long container with 50 tiny ivory elephants in it that an unnamed man would give to his co-workers later. HonoluluFilly, why wasn't "everybody" upset about this? Maybe because your theory doesn't have merit? Just asking.

P.S. The word is "moi," not "muah." And we have no obligation to respect your credentials if you refuse to say what they are.

Last edited by LaurelHS; 10th May 2013 at 03:55 PM.
LaurelHS is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:55 PM   #337
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
The person that posed the original query was asking about inertial systems. ALL INERTIAL SYSTEMS WORK THAT WAY.
No, they don't.

Quote:
My post was one to emphasize that and it is a point above reproach.
No, you spoke of "the computer" in response to the poster's question about how Apollo did it. Here's your rapprochement:
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Another idea for you. Integrate the accelerations twice. X one give the velocity, X 2 gives the position. The computer did just that, integrated the accelerations X 2 to give the position.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:56 PM   #338
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
I am irradiating my stamp now. Unfortunately, I don't have an X-ray source. Nevertheless, more to come.
You aren't answering any of the pertinent questions. What do you consider applicable "radiation" in this case, and what effects do you believe you will observe?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:58 PM   #339
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Well I am not going to tell you what I am, but I outrank you.
Nope. You patently don't know what you're talking about.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:59 PM   #340
LaurelHS
Muse
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
Yeah, but "outrank" is such a vague term. He could be better as chess than you, for example. Or maybe he wears more expensive socks.
LaurelHS is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 03:59 PM   #341
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
HAve it your way. I'd suggest that you take it up with Sir Isaac.
As I said, I do this for a living. Sir Isaac and I are on very good professional terms.

I will point out again that most spaceflight is reckoned according to orbital models and trajectories that do not exercise the accelerometers, and that accelerated flight is relatively rare in a spacecraft's mission. Therefore reconcile that with your claims that all guidance and navigation systems must double-integrate the acceleration.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:00 PM   #342
Erock
Muse
 
Erock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Debunking Linkbarf
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
For example, X rays are filtered by our atmosphere. Would X-rays leave a mark on stamps? YES THEY WOULD!
X-rays from where? The sun? How exactly do soft x-rays penetrate anything thicker than a tissue paper?

Sounds like more poop to me. Ask your friends/wife/girlfriend/blah blah zzzzzzzz tedious and obvious, under what circumstances stamps would get any radiation of any note whilst inside the Apollo space craft.
__________________
The less they know the more they blow.
Erock is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:02 PM   #343
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
An X-ray source equivalent to that provided by the sun and other electromagnetic emitters...
Other "electromagnetic emitters" such as what?

Quote:
...that would hit stamps traveling from the earth to the moon during an Apollo emission of course.
And produce what visible or measurable effect? Be specific.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:03 PM   #344
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
An X-ray source equivalent to that provided by the sun and other electromagnetic emitters that would hit stamps traveling from the earth to the moon during an Apollo emission of course.
Can you quantify for us the amount of x-ray emissions that a) are put out by the sun and b) would get through the attenuation of the spacecraft? Then c) what effect x-rays would have on postage stamps? In light of the paucity of your case I would be willing to allow for effects on either printing or glue.
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:04 PM   #345
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Am I supposed to be intimidated? distance is acceleration twice integrated.
What does an accelerometer measure in an unaccelerated orbit?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:05 PM   #346
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Am I supposed to be intimidated? distance is acceleration twice integrated.
A state vector is more than just "distance." Do you really expect to convince people here you know what you're talking about?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:06 PM   #347
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,276
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Perhaps there would be no telltale findings.
So in other words you have no clue what you're talking about.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:13 PM   #348
Erock
Muse
 
Erock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Debunking Linkbarf
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
Perhaps there would be no telltale findings. presumably they have done it with Apollo. I would grant today the missions may well be real. I have no major reason to doubt. Do have some minor ones. No one has done the experiment here on earth. We can ask and maybe even try to do the experiment. that is the thing to do, an actual experiment.
There is no "perhaps" about it. Solar x-rays are as strong as a baby's fart*.

You are as obvious as you are tedious. Do you come from Alabama and do you ride a bike with a banjo on your knee? Doesn't being wrong so often and so badly, ever register with you?





* absent of CME activity
__________________
The less they know the more they blow.

Last edited by Erock; 10th May 2013 at 04:15 PM.
Erock is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 04:23 PM   #349
slyjoe
Graduate Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins
Posts: 1,651
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
An X-ray source equivalent to that provided by the sun and other electromagnetic emitters that would hit stamps traveling from the earth to the moon during an Apollo emission of course.
This clinches. Body fluids again.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2013, 05:01 PM   #350
frenat
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 482
Originally Posted by HonoluluFilly View Post
See, I got you thinking. Not sure yet, but looks like team Haleiwa is really on to something.

I want to emphasize this is not an argument for hoax in and of itself. It is an interesting hypothetical though.

We can make a general statement, claim. Objects taken into space for 9 or more days would show signs of being in space due to radiation exposure not incurred were the same stamps left at home here on earth.
the only thing Heiwa is onto is a complete misunderstanding of al physics involved.
__________________
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
-Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
-There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.
frenat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 01:38 AM   #351
threadworm
Graduate Poster
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,571
If you are going to try and reproduce the alleged effects on stamps you need to reproduce the same conditions.

Put your sheet of stamps in a tin can then leave them outside. Report back.

You could even be really brave and get a hospital to x-ray the tin, see how that works. Oh if only you had access to medical facilities...
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 02:05 AM   #352
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by Neutiquam Erro View Post
In all seriousness [gulp], haven't we already heard that about the silver-painted boots in some of the Mercury and/or Gemini publicity photos?
Yes.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 03:48 AM   #353
SpitfireIX
Illuminator
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
Posts: 4,618
Originally Posted by frenat View Post
the only thing Heiwa is onto is a complete misunderstanding of al physics involved.

You misread what the sock/troll wrote; Haleiwa is a town on the opposite side of Oahu from Honolulu. (I only knew that due to my having seen Tora! Tora! Tora! and having read At Dawn We Slept several times each. Haleiwa was the location of a small US Army Air Force satellite airfield that the Japanese didn't know about, and thus failed to attack.)
__________________
Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 04:53 AM   #354
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,166
Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
If you are going to try and reproduce the alleged effects on stamps you need to reproduce the same conditions.

Put your sheet of stamps in a tin can then leave them outside. Report back.

You could even be really brave and get a hospital to x-ray the tin, see how that works. Oh if only you had access to medical facilities...
I could do it for him. We have several different Dental Xray systems we use for training and testing. We can turn them right down low if we need to. Not as low as he would need to simulate Cisluner space though.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 06:47 AM   #355
cjameshuff
Critical Thinker
 
cjameshuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
You misread what the sock/troll wrote; Haleiwa is a town on the opposite side of Oahu from Honolulu.
Right, from the latest iteration of his "we were just talking about this" scenario: "My friends and I came up with a new conspiracy angle on Apollo sitting around the wall at Haleiwa last evening."

I'm really wondering where this idea that stamp gum can be used as a sensitive radiation detector came from. The closest thing I can come up with is the "gum printing" technique which requires mixing with a dichromate salt followed by fairly intense UV exposure, like extended exposure to bright sunlight. Looking around online, it otherwise looks like gum arabic is actually known for tolerance of ionizing radiation (to be specific, gamma radiation at very high doses for sterilization purposes) with little effect.
cjameshuff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 07:03 AM   #356
matt.tansy
Muse
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 991
I vaguely remember that all or most Moon landing missions carried stamps authorized by the government but the Apollo 15 guys carried extra to sell for their own profit. Anybody else recall that?
__________________
Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000
probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess
matt.tansy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 08:52 AM   #357
nomuse
Muse
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 779
So....."Radiation" is bad for the adhesive gum on the back of postage stamps, eh? Good thing aerospace technology doesn't use adhesives anywhere, right? It is all assembled in the same ways as consumer goods and stuffs...no adhesives there, no sir!
nomuse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 08:55 AM   #358
nomuse
Muse
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 779
This reminds me a lot of the interminable "The film would have melted!" arguments. Because of course it is perfectly natural to expect a roll of photographic film to melt, catch fire, turn so radioactive it glows, etc., etc....while in a camera held by a far more fragile astronaut.
nomuse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 09:36 AM   #359
threadworm
Graduate Poster
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by matt.tansy View Post
I vaguely remember that all or most Moon landing missions carried stamps authorized by the government but the Apollo 15 guys carried extra to sell for their own profit. Anybody else recall that?
And lots of other things besides. The issue was not taking stamps, it was taking unauthorised stamps.

http://www.spaceflownartifacts.com/f...lo_covers.html
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2013, 09:57 AM   #360
Call Me Crazy But
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
What does an accelerometer measure in an unaccelerated orbit?
I am probably going to get shot down on this but here goes. I took 'A Level' physics back in the day (UK exam taken at 18) but I am just a little lost, possibly due to translation. I do not back Honolulufilly and yes I think that P1K is back but I don't quite follow the acceleration argument. I thought that an object in orbit was always under acceleration due to the vectors involved because of gravity. Am I missing part of the argument here or have I just misread a post? For the record I watched the moon landings aged 10 on a tiny mono TV. I believed it then and I believe it now.
Call Me Crazy But is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:53 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.