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Old 20th January 2013, 07:00 AM   #41
Sparkyryan
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Re: ...the HEART of the EARTH.

Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Look, they've thought about that. There's a sun in the middle of the earth, silly!
Must be what's causing global warming
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Old 20th January 2013, 07:22 AM   #42
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Personally, I love hollow-Earth stories. I don't know of any well-realized fictional versions prior to Jules Verne, but likely there were some.
Mythology has various sorts of peoples and civilizations living underground, and of course various sorts of afterlife scenarios have had the departed living underground in one situation or another.
A throwback to pre-history and cave-dwelling, perhaps? Surely some of our primitive ancestors, living in the accessible parts of huge cave systems, must have wondered what was "down there" in apparently-endless cave systems....
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Old 20th January 2013, 09:28 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
I really gotta move cities.


Inner Perth.

That's where you need to be.
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Old 20th January 2013, 09:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Look, they've thought about that. There's a sun in the middle of the earth, silly!
Nice. Mathematically impossible, but nice all the same.

Shell theorem shows that there's nothing keeping that central sun central. Everything and everyone inside that hollow earth is weightless and if that central sun has any appreciable mass they'll all just gradually drift into it.

And that's ignoring the problems of how you make a planet like that in the first place, how its little 'sun' shines and why the planet shell doesn't immediately collapse under its own weight.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:01 AM   #45
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Morlocks, Mole People or CHUDs?
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Morlocks, Mole People or CHUDs?
No, just the lost tribes of Israel. Maybe someone decided there were just too few conspiracy theories about Jews.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:45 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Personally, I love hollow-Earth stories.
Some folks here may know that I do living history, and several years ago, I needed to develop a portrayal of a slightly batty fictional but typical guy from the mid-19th century, sort of like conspiracy theory folks today. Well, coincidentally, belief in a hollow earth was what I picked.

So I'd run across folks like John Cleve Symmes and Jeremiah Reynolds, who gave the idea a boost in the early 19th century, but never realized that any 19th century Mormons had picked up on it.

But sure enough, here's a website with a lot of original documents by or about John Cleve Symmes, with an emphasis on Mormonism:

http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1818symm.htm

The vast majority of items on that page, as far as I can tell, are just about Symmes and not connected to Mormonism, and are just there to put his theories in context, when mentioned by Mormons.

Searching down the page for the word "Mormon" points out where the LDS church and Symmes' theories intersected. It seems that it was something out on the speculative fringe, promoted by a few members mostly in the very late 19th and early 20th centuries, certainly never even close to doctrine, nor widely believed even among LDS members.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:53 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Pup View Post
Some folks here may know that I do living history, and several years ago, I needed to develop a portrayal of a slightly batty fictional but typical guy from the mid-19th century, sort of like conspiracy theory folks today. Well, coincidentally, belief in a hollow earth was what I picked.

So I'd run across folks like John Cleve Symmes and Jeremiah Reynolds, who gave the idea a boost in the early 19th century, but never realized that any 19th century Mormons had picked up on it.

But sure enough, here's a website with a lot of original documents by or about John Cleve Symmes, with an emphasis on Mormonism:

http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1818symm.htm

The vast majority of items on that page, as far as I can tell, are just about Symmes and not connected to Mormonism, and are just there to put his theories in context, when mentioned by Mormons.

Searching down the page for the word "Mormon" points out where the LDS church and Symmes' theories intersected. It seems that it was something out on the speculative fringe, promoted by a few members mostly in the very late 19th and early 20th centuries, certainly never even close to doctrine, nor widely believed even among LDS members.
Mormonism does tend to have a finger in the wind, ready to change direction when needed to keep the converts coming don't they?
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Old 20th January 2013, 11:09 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Mormonism does tend to have a finger in the wind, ready to change direction when needed to keep the converts coming don't they?
Actually, I think this is evidence of just the opposite. Because the church attracts individuals who are open to non-mainstream ideas about scripture, those same individuals may also be open to other non-mainstream ideas promoted by other people.

The church itself, though, seems to have a finger in the wind which results in a general movement in the opposite direction. In other words, the more mainstream the church keeps its doctrine, the wider the base of converts they can pull from.

So while individual members may promote oddball stuff, the church itself seems like it's gradually becoming more like other mainstream religions. No more polygamy, no more expectation for members to relocate to Utah when they convert, equality for blacks, less insistence on scriptural literalism.

An insistence in the belief--as official doctrine--that the earth is hollow, would drive away more converts than attract them, and I think the church realized that even in the 1890s, and certainly does today.

Of course, that's not unique to the LDS church. One can see most large religions tending toward the norm, as they grow and adapt.
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Old 20th January 2013, 11:18 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Astreja View Post
Am I reading this correctly? Do you, Janadele, actually believe that the earth is hollow and inhabited by "lost tribes"?

I doubt very much that the water from the alleged Noachide flood was hiding down there. If the water somehow magically retreated back down there after the flood, the "lost tribes" are either mer-people or probably drowned. If there was a cavity that previously held enough water to cover the Earth to a depth of 29,029 feet, earthquakes would have cracked the shell open long ago.

(TL;DR version: What???)
I thought the Nazis had their secret submarine base there.
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Old 20th January 2013, 11:29 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Nice. Mathematically impossible, but nice all the same.

Shell theorem shows that there's nothing keeping that central sun central. Everything and everyone inside that hollow earth is weightless and if that central sun has any appreciable mass they'll all just gradually drift into it.

And that's ignoring the problems of how you make a planet like that in the first place, how its little 'sun' shines and why the planet shell doesn't immediately collapse under its own weight.

Plus it'd get mighty hot in there.
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Old 20th January 2013, 01:57 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
There is much of which we mortals have no present knowledge, which is yet to be revealed.
Yep, it's being revealed to you right now.
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Old 20th January 2013, 03:31 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by korenyx View Post
I thought the Nazis had their secret submarine base there.
Wrong end, the secret Nazi base was at the south pole.
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Old 20th January 2013, 03:45 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
So a couple of LDS "scientists" decide, despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary, that the earth is hollow, and you just say "Okay, good, done! Hollow world it is!!" You do realize that even most Mormons that truly accept the silliness of the Book of Mormon still don't accept this nonsense, right?
You are correct Empress, this is just utter nonsense.
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Old 20th January 2013, 03:56 PM   #55
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Ray Palme, Abandonderos, Flying Saucers, Shaver, etc.:

http://www.madladdesigns.co.uk/clien...ollowearth.htm
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Old 20th January 2013, 04:01 PM   #56
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Then: http://ureader.de/msg/11821490.aspx

Note: unless you read German, skip the first 3 or 4 items.....
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Old 20th January 2013, 04:45 PM   #57
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Now I'll admit I don't know a whole lot of physics and all that sciency stuff, but I seem to recall hearing that if the earth were hollow its gravity would not be the same as if it were solid, and since I have heard tell that some scientist types actually know something about gravity and how it works, and that some geologists have gone so far as to figure out the density of the part of the earth we can get to, and a few other niggling details....well, if the earth were hollow wouldn't it be someplace else? And wouldn't we have some different tides? And maybe you could jump really really high. Stuff like that.

And there's some nonsense some math geeks thought up about linear velocities, too. All numbers and arcane stuff, but wouldn't being near to the center make your head spin and your coffee spill on your shirt?
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Old 20th January 2013, 04:55 PM   #58
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Eew.
Coffee stains.
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:05 PM   #59
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Sorry, Janadele, but Guy Maddin does a much cooler version of a similar story:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
Wrong end, the secret Nazi base was at the south pole.
I just can't keep my hollow earth stories straight.
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:37 PM   #61
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Someone fell asleep in front of Superman And the Mole Men as a child, didn't they?
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:38 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Nice. Mathematically impossible, but nice all the same.

Shell theorem shows that there's nothing keeping that central sun central. Everything and everyone inside that hollow earth is weightless and if that central sun has any appreciable mass they'll all just gradually drift into it.

And that's ignoring the problems of how you make a planet like that in the first place, how its little 'sun' shines and why the planet shell doesn't immediately collapse under its own weight.
And if you try to claim that centrifugal force keeps people pushed against the surface, then you have to deal with how everyone on the outside would be thrown off into space. There's less gravity and a faster rate of spin both because we're farther away from the center.
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
There's less gravity [snipped the correct part] because we're farther away from the center.
There's no net gravity in a hollow sphere. That's probably easy to understand at the center where you're being pulled equally in all directions. Same is true elsewhere though because at any off center point the pull of the stuff closer to you is offset by the stuff further away because there is more stuff further away (and in exactly the right proportion).
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:47 PM   #64
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Gotta hand it to Janadele -- with just one post (and not a single thought of her own, just stuff she's copied wholesale from another website) she's started a thread that's already gathered over sixty posts.

Many members start a thread with careful, thoughtful and at time heartfelt opening post, and it withers on the vine after a dozen replies.

Plus, and many posters to this thread have so ably pointed out, the hollow Earth theory really is a non-starter.
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:48 PM   #65
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Plus of course the centrifugal effect is strongest at the equator and zero at the poles, so if you entered this imagined hollow earth at high northerly latitude as described, there would be negligible centrifugal force to help you try to cling to the interior surface.
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Gotta hand it to Janadele -- with just one post (and not a single thought of her own, just stuff she's copied wholesale from another website) she's started a thread that's already gathered over sixty posts.
It's a good point: Janadele hasn't yet offered any opinion on whether she takes the hollow earth fantasy seriously or not. She has said it's 'interesting'.

Last edited by Jack by the hedge; 20th January 2013 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 20th January 2013, 06:45 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Ray Palme, Abandonderos, Flying Saucers, Shaver, etc.:

http://www.madladdesigns.co.uk/clien...ollowearth.htm
Ah. I Remember Lemuria! Richard_Sharpe_ShaverWP

Quote:
Shaver wrote of extremely advanced prehistoric races who had built cavern cities inside the Earth before abandoning Earth for another planet due to damaging radiation from the Sun. Those ancients also abandoned some of their own offspring here, a minority of whom remained noble and human "Teros", while most degenerated over time into a population of mentally impaired sadists known as "Deros" short for "detrimental robots.". Shaver's "robots" were not mechanical constructs, but were robot-like due to their savage behaviour.
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Old 20th January 2013, 07:39 PM   #68
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Hollow earth that inhabits lost tribes, International Internet rules and mysterious golden plates. It's like I'm reading headlines from the weekly world news.
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Old 20th January 2013, 08:29 PM   #69
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Janadele seems to be reluctant to come back to this thread. Maybe she has talked about this to her masters, and they have explained to her that it is not a good idea to try and think for yourself, and please in future just copy and pasta proper Mormon "teachings"

Perhaps the BoM should be labelled, as a health warning (like on cigarette packets) "Thinking is dangerous for your Belief".

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Old 20th January 2013, 09:38 PM   #70
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Lightbulb

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I wonder how this hollow earth stuff fits in with LDS teaching?
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Me too. Janadele, please speak to this.
Though there is much yet to be revealed, much also has been revealed. I refer you to the following post in the LDS Thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post8930643
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Old 20th January 2013, 09:48 PM   #71
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I am so sorry, but this is just not true. You are being lied too.

Seriously, you believe this? Why?

I really feel a sense of pity for people who are this gullible.

Please wake up.

Last edited by deaman; 20th January 2013 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Though there is much yet to be revealed, much also has been revealed. I refer you to the following post in the LDS Thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post8930643
Indeed it has, By science, One of which is that the earth is not hollow.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:15 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Though there is much yet to be revealed, much also has been revealed. I refer you to the following post in the LDS Thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post8930643
Wait.. Are you plugging some form of new LDS-funded Sci-fi/fantasy movie?

I do hope it'll be better than the LAST versions of the jules verne stories, because those movies sucked.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:20 PM   #74
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Janadele, seek help. From a professional.
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:31 PM   #75
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The more I think about it, the better it sounds.

The Heart of the Earth.

Catchy title right there.
Mormon funded, so classical explorer hero type guy (NOT Shia Leboeuf please) hired by Beautiful scientist's daughter (Damsel in distress/love interest during the movie) to find the lost ten tribes underground.
Only to find fleeing Nazi's got there first.
Now there's some classic villains to thwart!
Since the ten tribes either had no technology / were pacificsts the tech level will be WW2.
Skip any technobabble about HOW it works and focus on the adventure story (and hire a good writer for the love story) and you might just revive the adventuring genre of movies like Pirates of the Carribean did for the pirate movie.

When WILL the trailer be revealed??
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Old 20th January 2013, 10:33 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Morlocks, Mole People or CHUDs?
Underpant gnomes.
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Old 20th January 2013, 11:01 PM   #77
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http://www.ourhollowearth.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vadj0Nkby58

Interesting links.
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Old 20th January 2013, 11:06 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
So interesting that you are utterly incapable of doing anything other than linking to them.

Can you think? Or do you just leave that up to your masters?

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Old 21st January 2013, 12:00 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Janadele, seek help. From a professional.
For an amateur, she seems to be hooking plenty of fish.
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
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Old 21st January 2013, 12:05 AM   #80
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
No it's just biblical stuff. That's nothing.
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