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Old 26th January 2013, 01:28 PM   #41
showmevegas
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
Yes. How about " in which lurks an idiotic supernaturalism."

Get it? I am telling you that JREF, and everyone here, is a supernaturalist of the worst kind, hypocritical at worst, gullible at best, skeptic.
Guess I've been told! Never mind the critical thinking now...I'm tellin ya!
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Old 26th January 2013, 01:30 PM   #42
John Jones
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
Yes. How about " in which lurks an idiotic supernaturalism."

Get it? I am telling you that JREF, and everyone here, is a supernaturalist of the worst kind, hypocritical at worst, gullible at best, skeptic.

Thanks for presuming to know what I think. It would have been rude to ask.
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Old 26th January 2013, 02:20 PM   #43
RussDill
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
JREF has a problem, and I was hoping that someone might have spotted it by now. It is that every generation has its dark corners that can only be illuminated by the next. Even JREF has dark corners that dwarf those he rails against.
There is no evidence for community problems. You've merely invented a social category without any physical evidence. Posters frown on community problems and try to get them excised, a dangerous step I think.

Yet these same posters try to claim mental problems don't exist. Madness can come to the door of those who seek solutions in the wrong places. It is not what you ask but who you ask.

However, in some places, community problems, altered opinions, logic, are also accepted. For some posters, these communities are reclassified en masse into the discourse of on-line community pathology whose terms we juggle with today.
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Old 26th January 2013, 02:26 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
I think you might profit by attending to your ignorance of what YOU mean by mental illness, for I am absolutely sure that you, or anyone else you would appeal to, could not frame any answer that would be coherent.

Welcome to the dark corner of our century.

JREF has a problem, and I was hoping that someone might have spotted it by now. It is that every generation has its dark corners that can only be illuminated by the next. Even JREF has dark corners that dwarf those he rails against.

And this is one of them.
This thread a dark corner? Yes, perhaps.
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Old 26th January 2013, 02:36 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
I'm still trying to forget them.
Why? Band on the Run is a fantastic album!
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Old 26th January 2013, 02:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Now, now, you are not supposed to use someone's posts in a different thread (he started) to show the error of his ideas in another. Hardly sporting when it is so easy a shot!!!
Ah, the benefits of "economy of discourse" - making the evidence easier to hide...
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Old 26th January 2013, 04:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why? Band on the Run is a fantastic album!
I'll grant you that, but Mull Of Kintyre, Mary Had A Little Lamb and The Frog Chorus? Unforgivable.

Last edited by dafydd; 26th January 2013 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:04 PM   #48
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Umm, Jonesboy, JREF isn't a person. I think you mean James Randi.
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
Umm, Jonesboy, JREF isn't a person. I think you mean James Randi.
irrelevant and off topic.

Where's your unfounded counter-assertion, hmmmm? (alternatively, you should start a new thread with a whole set of new assertions. This has the advantage of clouding the audit trail...)
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Last edited by Kid Eager; 26th January 2013 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 26th January 2013, 08:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
This thread a dark corner? Yes, perhaps.
Well, the budget's running a little thin and CFLs are expensive. Now if they'd just let us buy some incandescent bulbs, we'd be good, but there's that whole power conservation directive to follow...
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Old 26th January 2013, 09:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
In the societies of the West certain experiences are frowned upon. The unlucky person will look to a doctor to get them excised from his or her mental emporium, a dangerous step I think.

Yet in these same societies the experiences and thoughts of poets, artists, bards, and psychics are allowed some freedom from the treatment mandate, and often found acceptable by the public. Madness can come to the door of those who seek solutions in the wrong places. It is not what you ask but who you ask.

However, in some non-Western countries experiences of dying, and other altered states and perceptions are also accepted. In western society these experiences are reclassified en masse into the discourse of pathology whose terms we juggle with today - depression, bipolar, schizo-x, and the like.

The driving forces of these models are cultural, and always religious. Even the medical model of the West is driven, not by science, but by religion and its off-shoots: Science frowns upon any experience that detracts from the armchair domain of experience bequethed to us by our judeo-christian moral history. It is this model that drives the medical model of experience today and drives the promotion of the "mental disorder" which is, ultimately, a social category whose values are founded on judeo-christian materialism.
1. NDEs are not classified as schizo as far as I can tell. "Secular" classifications usually put them in their own box, but nevertheless as a purely brain-generated phenomenon. I don't think it would be said that NDE experiencers are "crazy". Rather, the NDE comes as a result of the brain being forced into a regime ("near death") well outside its "normal operating parameters".

2. The modern medical model used in scientific medicine is driven by science. If it weren't, then we'd be seeing doctors accepting "demonic posession" as a valid diagnosis. They don't, and for good reason. And what on earth is "judeo-christian materialism"? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
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Old 27th January 2013, 04:30 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no evidence for mental illness. The reason for this is that it is a social category, and can merit no physical evidence.

So, it is up to the mental illness pundits to say what the evidence is for mental illness. And there is none, not least because there is no coherent definition of the term coming from their camp.
Dodge noted!

You made a spurious claim that modern medicine was based on religion instead of being evidence based. You were asked to clearly show any evidence for this claim.

Then, this was your response. For the record, you were not asked To provide "evidence for mental illness". Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension?

Please answer the questions put to you. That's how discourse works, Jonesy.

Last edited by crhkrebs; 27th January 2013 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 27th January 2013, 06:13 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by crhkrebs View Post
That's how discourse works, Jonesy.
Discourse? We should be grateful that the greatest polymath on Earth has deigned to speak to us.
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Old 27th January 2013, 07:05 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by mike3 View Post
1. NDEs are not classified as schizo as far as I can tell. "Secular" classifications usually put them in their own box, but nevertheless as a purely brain-generated phenomenon. I don't think it would be said that NDE experiencers are "crazy". Rather, the NDE comes as a result of the brain being forced into a regime ("near death") well outside its "normal operating parameters".

2. The modern medical model used in scientific medicine is driven by science. If it weren't, then we'd be seeing doctors accepting "demonic posession" as a valid diagnosis. They don't, and for good reason. And what on earth is "judeo-christian materialism"? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
You believe in chemical possession? You said NDE's are "purely brain-generated phenomenon", as if to say other experiences are not.

Judeo-christian materialism brings us Halloween, the mockery of death, the limitation of experiential fauna supplemented by the belief in the existence of only material objects, and its related rejection of altered states that challenge it.
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Old 27th January 2013, 07:06 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by crhkrebs View Post
Dodge noted!

You made a spurious claim that modern medicine was based on religion instead of being evidence based. You were asked to clearly show any evidence for this claim.

Then, this was your response. For the record, you were not asked To provide "evidence for mental illness". Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension?

Please answer the questions put to you. That's how discourse works, Jonesy.
Hardly a dodge. Without evidence for mental illness, nor even a definition that works, there is only cultural forces left.
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Old 27th January 2013, 07:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
I am telling you that JREF, and everyone here, is a supernaturalist of the worst kind, hypocritical at worst, gullible at best, skeptic.
Based on what - how does the OP lead you to this stunning insight?
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Old 27th January 2013, 07:30 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
Judeo-christian materialism brings us Halloween, the mockery of death, the limitation of experiential fauna supplemented by the belief in the existence of only material objects, and its related rejection of altered states that challenge it.
Ah, you're one of those people who believe that mind-altering drugs reveal amazing insights to the nature of the universe, rather than chemically distorting the functioning of your brain, are you?
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