• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend

Status
Not open for further replies.
A tragic accident, or murder. The US doesn't have a monopoly on mindless gun deaths.
 
Awful, awful, awful.......

South Africa has a similar gun culture to America, and just about the highest murder rate in the world. These tragedies are no surprise. Last year a famous rugby player shot his daughter dead as she drove out of his driveway, thinking that it was someone stealing his car.

Mike
 
Well, this one is actually of more than remote interest, partly because it features Pistorius and partly because it's SA which seems to have an extreme law and order problem. Every South African I have spoken to (maybe 2 or 3) cites it as a major reason for not living there any more.
 
anglolawyer said:
Well, this one is actually of more than remote interest, partly because it features Pistorius and partly because it's SA which seems to have an extreme law and order problem. Every South African I have spoken to (maybe 2 or 3) cites it as a major reason for not living there any more.
Click to expand...

Then again the South Africans who have left are a self-selecting group (who presumably have left for a good reason). That's not to say that South Africa is not a dangerous place and I certainly cannot speak from a position of authority (having only spent a month there six years ago) but people who have left a country may not be the most representative bunch (if you look at Mrs Don's American Women Abroad group you's assume that all U.S. women are very liberal ,upper middle class, middle aged and white).

If it does turn out to be an accidental shooting, this isn't the first time that a white South African sports personality has killed a loved one while protecting their home:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/25/southafrica.rugbyunion

A former Springbok rugby player was charged with murder yesterday after he mistook his daughter for a car thief and shot her dead in the family's driveway.
Click to expand...

I guess this once again illustrates the dangers of poorly trained members of the public using guns for home defence. These dangers need to be assessed against the benefits of poorly trained members of the public using guns for home defence.

Personally I feel that the dangers outweigh the benefits but as many, many threads show, it's very difficult to get objective statistics.
 
The Don said:
Then again the South Africans who have left are a self-selecting group (who presumably have left for a good reason). That's not to say that South Africa is not a dangerous place and I certainly cannot speak from a position of authority (having only spent a month there six years ago) but people who have left a country may not be the most representative bunch (if you look at Mrs Don's American Women Abroad group you's assume that all U.S. women are very liberal ,upper middle class, middle aged and white).

If it does turn out to be an accidental shooting, this isn't the first time that a white South African sports personality has killed a loved one while protecting their home:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/25/southafrica.rugbyunion



I guess this once again illustrates the dangers of poorly trained members of the public using guns for home defence. These dangers need to be assessed against the benefits of poorly trained members of the public using guns for home defence.

Personally I feel that the dangers outweigh the benefits but as many, many threads show, it's very difficult to get objective statistics.
Click to expand...
I take your self-selecting group point but I do believe, from newspapers and such as well as anecdotes, that SA has a major crime problem.
 
All in all I've spent over 3 decades in South Africa. Since the mid-90s crime has risen greatly. We are all now affected by crime in some way. Almost everybody knows somebody who has at least been carjacked. Too many know of somebody who has been murdered in the past few years.

A murder case has been opened in the shooting of Reeva Steenkamp. I believe, due to the high crime rate, it's almost a given Oscar's reaction of shooting before he could be sure it was an intruder will be seen as normal here, as wrong and tragic as her death is.
 
I've never been in SA, only talked to a few people, but it seems to me that SA really is the sort of society the US gun nuts think they live in. The sort of place where the odds of being violently attacked are genuinely disturbingly high, and where carrying a gun is arguably in the category of a sensible precaution.

Or is the USA really like that too?

Rolfe.
 
Here is a link to a study of violent crime in South Africa.

I was born in Cape Town and have lived here for almost 6 decades.

If you know which areas to avoid you will be quite safe.

http://www.info.gov.za/issues/crime/violent_crime.pdf

I posted this link in another thread about ethnic minorities and violent crime and it killed the thread instantly.

Hope it doesn't happen with this thread.;)
 
Last edited:
Rolfe said:
Or is the USA really like that too?

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

I have been to the states (California & Nevada & Arizona) regularly (2 to 3 times a year for extended periods) over the last ten years and have never experienced or seen any gun crime (touch wood).

I would comment though that the behaviour of the police in the US can be quite aggressive, possibly because of their need to be prepared for violent attack.

One incident springs to mind from a few years back when we witnessed a bad RTA in Las Vegas. Motorcyclist was taken out by a motorist and, apart from his friend and the car driver, we were first on the scene and called the police etc. His friend was distraught thinking his mate had been killed (he hadn't, but was in a bad way). When the police arrived, instead of trying to calm him down they were startlingly aggressive towards him, lots of shouting, one arm outstretched to keep him back and other hand on holstered weapon.

/anecdote
 
Rolfe said:
I've never been in SA, only talked to a few people, but it seems to me that SA really is the sort of society the US gun nuts think they live in. The sort of place where the odds of being violently attacked are genuinely disturbingly high, and where carrying a gun is arguably in the category of a sensible precaution.

Or is the USA really like that too?

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

Ummm... how do I say this? The US is big. Some places are violent. Some are not. Depends where you go. Hope that helps.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom