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#1 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,101
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What if we had $50 million for a new investigation?
Suppose I was an eccentric billionaire. Perhaps for my own amusement I decide to set aside fifty million dollars for the all brand new Truther led investigation into the September 11th attacks that will obviate the hundreds of prior investigations that they don't like.
So the money is there waiting to be spent. How should I spend it? Who can I hire and not have the Truthers claim they are poisoning the investigation from within? What evidence can I use that won't be claimed to be faked or tainted later on? What witnesses can be sourced that won't be claimed to be misled or plants later on? I am all for spending all that money on this I just want to be sure it will be done to the satisfaction of the Truth Movement so that there will be no need to discredit it later. So how do I do it? |
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"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
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#2 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,854
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#3 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,566
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You cannot do it
First problem: Step one must be "Define the Objective" The only objective that truthers may possibly accept is "come up with the answers that we want" So you immediately confront the first barrier - two actually which are: 1) There is no known mechanism whereby truthers will accept any of the forms of due process that our society relies on; AND 2) Truthers are not capable of agreeing among themselves so even if "1)" was possible for some it would not be acceptable to all or even a majority. So "they" could not agree on what answers they wanted even if the investigation was directed/constrained to come up with those pre-determined answers. Second Problem: There is no capable "Truther Leader" So how can it be truther led? The very basics of leadership on a task include: a) Defining the Objective of the task; b) Planning the task processes to achieve the objective; c) Selecting, recruiting workers, partitioning sub tasks, guiding, motivating helpers to achieve their parts of the task whilst ensuring that all the parts fit into a coherent whole; (Remember that no truther has ever put together a coherent overall hypothesis for any of the key technical issues of 9/11 let alone the more complicated politico-socio issues.) I'll stop there. Name a truther who can perform one of those task. Even if you can it is a long way from being able to staff the overall investigation process. your final paragraph shows the fatal premise: How could such a process ever have "credit" so that it could be "discredited later". What part of society is expected to find it creditable but could potentially "discredit it later"? It doesn't even work is you postulate a society of 100% truthers with none of us rational people who are (i)can think, (ii) are allowed to think AND (iii) are willing to do so? How do you construct a society made up of people who cannot think or which has rules which bar rational thinking? How do you change the ethos of the "truth movement" so that it can accept something at one stage and not seek to discredit it later. If you can re-educate truthers so that they behave consistently and rationally by definition they would no longer be truthers. |
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#4 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,080
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I hate to say this, but I can't imagine an investigation that would satisfy them unless it proved CD.
For example: they want full subpoena powers, so it has to be under the umbrella of some government agency. All government agencies are suspect, therefore no investigation will be satisfactory. I did a whole YouTube video on this and I interviewed several 9/11 Truth activists asking them what would satisfy them. None said that any investigation disproving CD would be satisfactory because they know it was CD. None of the ones I talked to wanted any kind of "truth and reconciliation" panel a la South Africa, they wanted grand juries, trials, and the full force of the law (including generous numbers of convictions for treason). My attempts to work with Kevin Ryan on an independent WTC dust study failed utterly and earned me public ad hominem attacks against me and the guy I hired to do the dust study. My more recent attempts to convince Mark Basile and all the Thermite paper signatories to work with me to create a protocol together that we could all agree on for a new WTC dust study was met with a wall of silence. I'm feeling pretty discouraged re my years-long efforts to work together on such things. |
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20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com |
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#5 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,883
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I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too. |
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#6 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,728
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,853
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911 truth followers, believers in the inside job nonsense can't think for themselves, and can't comprehend the many studies on 911. Another study would only expose how much ignorance 911 truth followers have.
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#8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,566
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Agreed - but there are other issues in the politico-social arena and there may be "truthers" who are only interested in MIHOP-LIHOP-LIHOOI
I've never seen any truther say why "subpoena powers" matters....it has simply become one of their parroting phrases without meaning. The two bottom lines are: a) They are untruthful; AND b) They cannot think coherently. blunt and cruel but... Note I said "untruthful" - not "liars". The distinction not all that relevant given that most of them suffer from some level of delusion and truthful adherence to delusion is not "lying" for most purposes. R Gage and T Sz possibly examples who may genuinely believe their delusions. So they may well not be liars. But there can be no doubt that much of what they claim is untruthful. (Note the careful wording avoiding PA ![]() Truthers (and trolls) in general repeatedly demonstrate that they cannot think coherently. The multiplicity of evidence showing limited thinking skills - with the key aspect probably the tendency to rely on "divergent" rather than "convergent" thinking. (Stated so bluntly they look like two opposing schools of thinking - not so but leave the topic for another time. One is "cannot think" and "diverge" is the defining characteristic. The other is "can think" and "converge" is the necessary characteristic of any reasoning from which valid conclusions are to be reached.) And despite the number of references to that problem I have never seen any interest in discussing it on this or other forums. We don't want to "think about thinking" ![]() I comprehend despite my long held concern that your willingness to engage truthers on their own ground would lead nowhere. |
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#9 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,566
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#10 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,566
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![]() Well said. I made the same point but a bit more complicated. "Cannot think" is the botom line. and it is like "blind spots". Just as by definition you cannot see your own blind spots - those with limited thinking skills cannot think outside their limitations. So, also by definition, I don't have any "blind spots' - because I cannot see them... ...I'd better stop before I dig in too deep - some troll is likely to quote mine my bits of humour. ![]() That's why Gage doesn't want another investigation whilst Basile and Ryan run away when Chris Mohr offers to collaborate. Obviously they have at least a gut feeing that they will lose if ever due process is followed. |
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#11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,853
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Most 911 truth followers are transients when they take the time to think for themselves. The old studies will cure most 911 truth followers, as they begin to think for themselves. 911 truth claims are made up fantasy, like the CIA guided the hijacker pilots. Statements made up by failed logic, and paranoid minds. More studies fuel the paranoia. |
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#12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,843
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#13 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 3,092
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You'd have to spend money searching for explosive residue or evidence of CD... And of course prove that fires and a collection of severed columns could not possible fail and cause the top drop. Tony would lead that investigation. I suppose they will want to interview under oath Cheney and Rummy and everyone of PNAC members... all the Neocons etc... and of course the CIA, FEMA and FBI ..then Silverstein, Guiliani and all the MIC corp execs in the twin towers.
I don't think anything would prove CD and so one needs to ask what is this all about in the end? Does the USG and corps lie? You betcha. So what else is new? |
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So many idiots and so little time. |
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#14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 21,050
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I'd say **** the truthers and donate the money to the Afghan and Iraqi people, for what it's worth. Maybe they can be helped by this. Truthers can't be helped.
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#15 |
Man of a Thousand Memes
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,474
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Sorry Travis, but you could be that eccentric billionaire and blow your entire fortune on the proposed independent investigation and it would still be a fool's errand so long as the Truthers don't agree on a theory. And even if they did they would still side against you when, not if, such an investigation fails to produce a result other than 'the government had involvement in the comission of this crime'.
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"There is no special treatment for guns." ~WildCat, confirmed gun owner. |
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,853
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The FAA lies? Do you fly? NTSB lies? Military, all the military lies? The USAF lies? If you got some evidence you have a Pulitzer if you can find a newspaper to team with. Good luck.
So a new study would be a lie? yes, that would be 911 truth.
Quote:
PNAC? that was funny, to see 911 truth blame PNAC, shows 911 truth can't connect the dots.
Quote:
Another study would fail to change 911 truth. 911 truth failed to read before they spread woo the first time. 911 truth would want silly stuff investigated, as you pointed out. A new study will not help 911 truth followers. The stuff that made you drop the inside job nonsense is what cures 911 truth followers, and it start with thinking for yourself, and learning what evidence is. |
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#17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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Rebuild a tower. Fill it with stuff. Crash a plane into it. Take pictures and video. See what happens.
Need more than $50 million, but you can make that up in contributions and selling the movie rights. I suggest Kickstarter. |
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#18 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 17,652
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Give the whole $50 mil to Gage/ae911t. Lump sum, no legal strings attached. The only condition is, the grant will be publicized (including a statement that the intended purpose is for investigating 9/11) and he must publicly acknowledge receiving the money.
All subsequent communication from Truthers can thenceforth be answered with "ask Gage how the investigation is going." |
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A zømbie once bit my sister... |
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#19 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
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Waste of time and money. Flush the cash down the toilet. you'll get the same results.
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#20 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,728
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Sad part is, they've been giving him money for years and don't seem to care where it goes.
Ask a "truther" if they think Gage is a worthwhile investment and watch them dance. To be fair he is doing his job well. He's making money for the company and not doing anything to jeopardize its future. ![]() |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#21 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 303
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#22 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,962
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Nothing will satisfy troofers.
That said, I would spend the money on expensive computer models with cool graphics. Then run every possible scenario. If you want to spend $50 million at least have fun with it. |
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#23 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,058
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Build a steel frame skyscraper with core in core design, or buy an existing one. Try to demolish it using nanobananothermite. Try to see if you can do it without blinding flashes and earsplitting noise.
Cry when you can't. Blame it on sabatoge of your experiment by Mossad ninjas under orders of the (secretly not dismantled) PNAC at the (secretly not shuttered) HAARP facilities. |
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"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
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#24 | |||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,552
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If I were a mischievous billionaire, I would sponsor a conference for the sole purpose of presenting to Congress a coherent proposal for a "new, independent investigation", and invite Steven Jones, Alex Jones, Niels Harrit, CIT, P4T, Gage, Judy Wood, Jim Fetzer, Ace Baker - the whole gang. Plenty of video cameras. It would be pure comedy gold, orders of magnitude beyond the debates of the Judaean People's Front in Life of Brian.
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#25 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,809
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Even if the National Academy of Sciences conducted the investigation, truthers still wouldn't believe a negative result for an inside job.
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#26 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,101
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Now now you cynics.
![]() Come on Truthers tell me how to spend the money. |
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"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
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#27 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,644
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There is no witness that hasn't been tampered with, unless they say something truthers like.
There is no video that hasn't been faked, unless it proves some truther point, There is no scientist that isn't compromised, unless their work validates a truther claim. The best thing you can spend that money on is to produce a spoof video that relies on completely fake evidence to prove whatever piece of stupidity they will lap up most readily, and then make them eat it. I saw this on DIF yesterday: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=122
Quote:
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Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
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#28 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,732
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Truthers are too lazy. Even if they had 50 million to spend towards their investigation, they'd never get around to it.
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Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed. For my complete compilation of evidence showing AAL77 hit the Pentagon -http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/ For my compilation of evidence for UAL93 - http://ual93.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88 |
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#29 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
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#30 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,871
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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#31 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,696
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I know you're trying to discourage the cynical answers, Travis, but you'll notice that we've had a Truther post in this thread, but he did not attempt to answer your query. There's a reason for that, and that reason is, they don't have an answer. They have a vague idea of "subpoena anyone and everyone who is or ever was in the government to find out what lies they've been telling" and "send a bunch of people to jail and/or execution", but outside of that, no one even knows what this so-called "new independent investigation" is supposed to do. It's a stock phrase that sounds plausible on its face, but is really just an excuse for getting to beat up on government figures they don't like and exercise power over the people they feel have been keeping them down.
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#32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,853
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I would get part of the money and pay gravy to write a common sense guide for those to avoid woo. 5 million would do, and 10 percent fee for me... don't tell gravy
911 truth followers will not read a new study, if they do and they have some critical thinking skills, they would not be 911 truth followers. Which they can do now with the old studies if they could stop using google and use their head. |
Last edited by LashL; 1st September 2013 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Copied post to relevant thread; edited to keep relevant parts in relevant threads. |
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#33 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 691
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My 2 cent…I don’t believe the Truth Movement wants a new investigation. They just want to demand one, and when it doesn’t happen, they point to it as evidence of a government conspiracy.
David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, Kevin Ryan, etc., etc. all know that a truly new and independent investigation would never produce any evidence of Control Demolition, so they don’t want one, and make no attempt to fund or organize one. |
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Conspiracy theories are for morons, who like to feel they are smarter than everyone else… |
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#34 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,058
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"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
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#35 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
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#36 |
I AM the Red Worm!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,452
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I'll be the best Congressman money can buy! As usual, he doesn't understand the relevant sciences, can't Google for the right thing, and appears to rely on the notion that a word salad liberally sprinkled with Google Croutons will make his argument seem coherent. -JayUtah |
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#37 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,101
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Surely Truthers will do better in this thread than in the one where I agree there was melted steel but wanted to know what it meant.
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"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
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#38 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,016
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"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein |
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#39 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,883
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9/11 conspiracy cult minions only say they want an investigation because that's what the conspiracy websites tell them to say.
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I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too. |
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#40 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,696
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