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Tags "Bigfoot Files" , bigfoot , Brian Sykes , yeti

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Old 17th October 2013, 02:09 AM   #1
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Sykes: Yeti is a hybrid bear

Oxford Professor of Human Genetics, Brian Sykes, has analysed purported Yeti hair from either end of the Himalayas and reported a 100% match with an ancient polar bear jawbone from Norway. This means that an unknown species or sub-species of bear is still wandering around in the Himalayas, which is incredibly exciting. It isn't any of the 3 known species of bear in the region.

Telegraph

Express

Independent

Quote:
Professor Sykes believes that the most likely explanation is that the animals are hybrids - crosses between polar bears and brown bears. The species are closely related and are known to interbreed where their territories overlap.

The professor said: "This is an exciting and completely unexpected result that gave us all a surprise. There's more work to be done on interpreting the results. I don't think it means there are ancient polar bears wandering around the Himalayas.

"But we can speculate on what the possible explanation might be. It could mean there is a sub species of brown bear in the High Himalayas descended from the bear that was the ancestor of the polar bear. Or it could mean there has been more recent hybridisation between the brown bear and the descendent of the ancient polar bear."
Remember the previous "yeti" hair which Sykes tested? This went from 'unknown' to 'bear'.

Mike

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Old 17th October 2013, 03:44 AM   #2
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I don't know if this will play overseas, but here is Sykes interviewed by the BBC on the subject.
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Old 17th October 2013, 05:10 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Remember the previous "yeti" hair which Sykes tested? This went from 'unknown' to 'bear'.

Mike
Seems they're all bear.
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Old 17th October 2013, 05:16 AM   #4
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That may be so, but the great thing is that it seems to be an un-catalogued species of bear. Sod the yeti legend, we may have evidence here of a brand-new-to-science big mammal, which is brilliant news if confirmed.
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Old 17th October 2013, 05:42 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
That may be so, but the great thing is that it seems to be an un-catalogued species of bear. Sod the yeti legend, we may have evidence here of a brand-new-to-science big mammal, which is brilliant news if confirmed.
It's all very interesting. I know that there are modern polar/brown bear hybrids and if I recall correctly, some claim the polar bear's origins back to brown bears in Scotland; others consider them unique and separate, a debate which I find infinitely more engaging than any concerning bigfoot.
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Old 17th October 2013, 05:43 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
That may be so, but the great thing is that it seems to be an un-catalogued species of bear. Sod the yeti legend, we may have evidence here of a brand-new-to-science big mammal, which is brilliant news if confirmed.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-859218.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...rid-photo.html
http://www.polarbearsinternational.o...rizzly-hybrids
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:28 AM   #7
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly...ar_bear_hybrid
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:31 AM   #8
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We're not talking modern polar bears and brown bears hybridising, if the papers have it correct. This is an old hybrid. But where's your excitement? Even if this is a mundane hybrid of two common species, it is uncatalogued, and one of the species is not known in the Himalayas, or even close to it. A polar bear 20,000 feet up the Annapurna valley? That's a helluva walk from the Arctic........

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Old 17th October 2013, 06:33 AM   #9
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IIRC, polar bears can swim hundreds of miles, so hiking up a mountain doesn't seem like much of a stretch. Heard about this on BBC this morning. Interesting.
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:35 AM   #10
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Come on, get real. There is no way a population of polar bears has made it thousands of miles across Asia, then climbed into the mountains.....and nobody noticed.
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:45 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
We're not talking modern polar bears and brown bears hybridising, if the papers have it correct. This is an old hybrid. But where's your excitement? Even if this is a mundane hybrid of two common species, it is uncatalogued, and one of the species is not known in the Himalayas, or even close to it. A polar bear 20,000 feet up the Annapurna valley? That's a helluva walk from the Arctic........
Multiple hybrids do not make a species.

I am fascinated by the marginal bears--not for the least reason that they illustrate the inescapably arbitrary and contingent nature of the concept of "species").

OTH, this is not an "uncatalogued" new animal, but a known and demonstrated effect of habitat overlap (look up gull "ring species").

OTGH, the articles you cite do a good job of implying that "half polar bear" implies half ursine/half primate "hybrids", when the reality is that hybrid bear hair does not in any way "prove yeti". Hybrid bear hair, no matter how old, proves...

...that Ursus maritimus and Ursus arctos have been observed to produce hybrid offspring, in captivity and in the wild.
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:49 AM   #12
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But they -assuming Sykes' data and their interpretation are correct- are not supposed to be polar bears. A subspecies of brown bears, not polar bears. Or an intermediate form, perhaps something which could bring brown and polar bears to be seen as ring species.

This put, since bears are not exactly unheard in Asia, a different species not being previously noticed by locals is not something that hard to imagine. It will basically depend on how far the "new" species will be, in terms of appearance, from the other ones. Color, size, etc. "Weird bear", may have been what countless hunters thought after killing or seeing one, completely forgetting about it some time later.

ETA: DAMN! Ninjaed by a slowvehicle.
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Come on, get real. There is no way a population of polar bears has made it thousands of miles across Asia, then climbed into the mountains.....and nobody noticed.
1. You are assuming the hybrid bear hair was carried to the mountain by a bear--not a hiker wearing bearskin clothing.

2. You are assuming the "track" was made by a hybrid bear, not a hiker.

3. How is it less likely that an undiscovered population of bears made it to the himalayas without being noticed than an undiscovered populatons of an unknown mammal lives in the himalayas without being seen ( no bones, no tracks, no young, no middens,no scat...). The absence of any indication of either animal in the area suggests the bearskin jacket is more likely...
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Come on, get real. There is no way a population of polar bears has made it thousands of miles across Asia, then climbed into the mountains.....and nobody noticed.
They did not have to climb. Noah dropped them off.
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Old 17th October 2013, 06:59 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
1. You are assuming the hybrid bear hair was carried to the mountain by a bear--not a hiker wearing bearskin clothing.

2. You are assuming the "track" was made by a hybrid bear, not a hiker.

3. How is it less likely that an undiscovered population of bears made it to the himalayas without being noticed than an undiscovered populatons of an unknown mammal lives in the himalayas without being seen ( no bones, no tracks, no young, no middens,no scat...). The absence of any indication of either animal in the area suggests the bearskin jacket is more likely...
I am not assuming anything. I am reporting what Sykes is saying. But:

1: One of the samples was apparently from a "mummified" complete animal, shot 40 years ago by a local hunter. This is nothing to do with a single hair.

2: What track?

3: See 1/. And maybe take the trouble to read some of the links I posted, then I wouldn't have to be simply repeating what is on clear view for anyone to read.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:02 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
OTGH, the articles you cite do a good job of implying that "half polar bear" implies half ursine/half primate "hybrids", when the reality is that hybrid bear hair does not in any way "prove yeti". Hybrid bear hair, no matter how old, proves...
No, they do no such thing. There is no mention of anything half primate, nor is that implied.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:04 AM   #17
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I don't see where the results suggests that there is a *new* bear reflected in the hairs Sykes analyzed. This sounds to me like we just had little idea of the genetic diversity that might be present in bears of the region. I also find it confusing that Sykes is claiming a 100% match to the ancient polar bear material. How can an identical twin of a 120,000 year old polar bear be a hybrid brown bear from Bhutan? I'm assuming we'll find out for sure once the paper is published.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
They did not have to climb. Noah dropped them off.
Don't be silly.

I propose giant dragonflies nesting at the mountain rooftops.

They grab the bears, suck their blood, store the blood on the wings and drop the dry bodies.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:09 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
I don't see where the results suggests that there is a *new* bear reflected in the hairs Sykes analyzed. This sounds to me like we just had little idea of the genetic diversity that might be present in bears of the region. I also find it confusing that Sykes is claiming a 100% match to the ancient polar bear material. How can an identical twin of a 120,000 year old polar bear be a hybrid brown bear from Bhutan? I'm assuming we'll find out for sure once the paper is published.
Well, I also found the 100% coincidence as odd. While reading it I supposed it was a dumbed-down explanation or some SNAFU on article writing. Time will tell.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I am not assuming anything. I am reporting what Sykes is saying. But:

1: One of the samples was apparently from a "mummified" complete animal, shot 40 years ago by a local hunter. This is nothing to do with a single hair.

2: What track?

3: See 1/. And maybe take the trouble to read some of the links I posted, then I wouldn't have to be simply repeating what is on clear view for anyone to read.
Where is the mummy now? Did Sykes see it?
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:19 AM   #21
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Yeah, what's with the 100% match? The ancient polar bear was also a hybrid?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:21 AM   #22
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Provenance of the samples?

This was also touted as significant to human history...
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Don't be silly.

I propose giant dragonflies nesting at the mountain rooftops.

They grab the bears, suck their blood, store the blood on the wings and drop the dry bodies.
Putting the E in JREF.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:23 AM   #24
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Quote:
The sample from Ladakh came from the mummified remains of a creature shot by a hunter around 40 years ago. He considered the animal so unusual, and so alarming, he kept some of its remains. A sample of the hair was passed to Professor Sykes by a French mountaineer who was given it by the hunter around a decade ago. The second sample was in the form of a single hair, found in a bamboo forest by an expedition of filmmakers, also around ten years ago.
The first one sounds a bit iffy to begin with. Given that Abominable-Snowman-ology is something that has been raked over with a fine-tooth-comb-rake, I would presume that many people here will have heard of the case before. Not me, I tend to steer clear of these Big-Foot-Yeti threads.

The second sample came from "a single hair"??? Sounds pretty slender evidence to me.

What do we know about these hunters and film-makers? Do we have any background on them or their claims?
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The first one sounds a bit iffy to begin with. Given that Abominable-Snowman-ology is something that has been raked over with a fine-tooth-comb-rake, I would presume that many people here will have heard of the case before. Not me, I tend to steer clear of these Big-Foot-Yeti threads.

The second sample came from "a single hair"??? Sounds pretty slender evidence to me.

What do we know about these hunters and film-makers? Do we have any background on them or their claims?
So nobody knows where the hair came from.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:28 AM   #26
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Doesn't the Telegraph link (the only one I have looked at) look remarkably like a press release for a new documentary series on Channel 4?

Well, then. It says the research "has been submitted for publication in a peer-reviewed science journal" but it obviously has not been published in the time it took to actually make the documentary series "Bigfoot Files".

Smells like Abominable BS to me.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
I'm assuming we'll find out for sure once the paper is published.
I assume the same. Should be cool.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:30 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
So nobody knows where the hair came from.
And they 100% match a polar bear...
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
So nobody knows where the hair came from.
The article says "The second sample was in the form of a single hair, found in a bamboo forest by an expedition of filmmakers, also around ten years ago."

But I would like to see the response from the peer-reviewed journal before I take these press articles seriously.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:31 AM   #30
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Perhaps this is a silly question, but how would a species of bear explain the legend of the Abominable Snowman / Yeti? Oxygen-deprived climbers saw something they couldn't identify, and it's a bear? Big whoop.
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:35 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The article says "The second sample was in the form of a single hair, found in a bamboo forest by an expedition of filmmakers, also around ten years ago."

But I would like to see the response from the peer-reviewed journal before I take these press articles seriously.
So it could have fallen out of a camera case. A single hair? 'Look chaps, there's a single hair there, amongst the bamboo. It looks like any other strand of hair, but let's pick it up and keep it.'
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:43 AM   #32
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And this is the footprint of the rare hybrid bear?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 071130_yeti_vmed_10a_widec.jpg (22.9 KB, 12 views)
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
So it could have fallen out of a camera case. A single hair? 'Look chaps, there's a single hair there, amongst the bamboo. It looks like any other strand of hair, but let's pick it up and keep it.'
Had they been filming bears earlier? Polar bears, perhaps?
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Old 17th October 2013, 07:51 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
So it could have fallen out of a camera case. A single hair? 'Look chaps, there's a single hair there, amongst the bamboo. It looks like any other strand of hair, but let's pick it up and keep it.'
Well, maybe the film-makers were making a documentary about the Yeti and got extremely lucky!

Do we know anything about these film-makers?

It seems the Asian Black Bear lives in the Himalayas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic_Black_Bear
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Old 17th October 2013, 08:28 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well, maybe the film-makers were making a documentary about the Yeti and got extremely lucky!

Do we know anything about these film-makers?
It's possibly from the cable TV show Destination Truth with Josh Gates. They did go to Bhutan in 2008 and found a single hair suspected to be from the Yeti. That is Josh in the picture I attached with him displaying a "Yeti track". The article says the sample was from ten years ago so maybe it isn't the 2008 DT Gates thing.
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Old 17th October 2013, 08:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
The sample from Ladakh came from the mummified remains of a creature shot by a hunter around 40 years ago. He considered the animal so unusual, and so alarming, he kept some of its remains. A sample of the hair was passed to Professor Sykes by a French mountaineer who was given it by the hunter around a decade ago.
Unusual and alarming how? Did that hunter not know if he had killed an unusual bear or a primate? Why is it described with such vague terms? Is this actually a Yeti hoax and the hunter character is part of the hoax?
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Old 17th October 2013, 09:08 AM   #37
MikeG
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
And they 100% match a polar bear...
....but not a modern polar bear. The ancestor of the modern polar bear. 40,000 to 120,000 year old version. The samples match no living catalogued species.

-

Those thinking up all sorts of tenuous explanations for the amazing DNA result (fell out of a bag, hunter's jacket etc) will have to explain how two samples, one from from either end of the Himalayas, come to match each other, but match no extant species. That's going to be one convoluted story.
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Old 17th October 2013, 09:13 AM   #38
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http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/morons.htm
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 17th October 2013, 09:20 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
....but not a modern polar bear. The ancestor of the modern polar bear. 40,000 to 120,000 year old version. The samples match no living catalogued species.

-

Those thinking up all sorts of tenuous explanations for the amazing DNA result (fell out of a bag, hunter's jacket etc) will have to explain how two samples, one from from either end of the Himalayas, come to match each other, but match no extant species. That's going to be one convoluted story.
First, we will have to know the provenance of the samples.

Would the 120K year old Polar bear be genetically different?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_b..._and_evolution
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 17th October 2013, 09:28 AM   #40
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841953/

Complete mitochondrial genome of a Pleistocene jawbone unveils the origin of polar bear
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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