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Tags rejected , perpetual motion , mdc , kirk gustum , challenge application

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Old 1st September 2004, 12:18 PM   #1
KRAMER
Former challenge facilitator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,443
GREETINGS AND WELCOME TO THE FIRST POST!!!

Well, it's been quite a day here at JREF, and I cannot imagine a better way to introduce all of you (though many of you don't need any such introduction) to the way Challenge applicants handle themselves when confronted with the Challenge rules, and how they behave when JREF insists they adhere to them.

This applicant's name is Kirk Gustum, from Wisconsin. If he kills me, I want you all to chip in so I can have a nice funeral, cuz' I can't even afford flowers.

I will post the entire email I received from him today, but first, here is the claim letter that accompanied his August 10th, 2004 application (I have included it here verbatim, with all grammatical errors intact):

"The device is a perpetual motion motor. The kinetic energy making the motor run is gravity. The motor is a free-running device that will not require any electric, or fuel other than its own mas which gravity will make a shaft turn. In the testing I will produce at least 1 amp dc power from the small proto type at the voltage of 12 volts, or more. The generator is in no way needed for the operation it is only to show a measurable output from the device. I will show the motor running with out the generator, which will be attached to the outside of the generator by means of a belt and pulley, and a see-thru plexi glass bracket. The generator can be fully inspected and looked over by anyone wanting to check it out, but not the perpetual motion gravity motor. I will allow the test to last as long as needed to prove that the motor is generating its own power and that there are not out side powers other that gravity making the perpetual motor run. I would hope a period of less than one week would be good for the test, but, if you need more time I will allow how ever much time you need to feel conmfortable giving the prize for (with in reason). You will be allowed to weigh the machine, and measure the output. But at no time will I allow anyone the internal viewing, X-ray, or other way of trying to see inside the box the motor is enclosed in."

The motor is a perpetual motor by the definition of, once running it will continue to run unless, it is stopped by a out side means such as a brake, a load to big for the motor, or, the mechanical wearing out of the parts of the machine. This is the definition that this perpetual motor will be run according to, andf the motor itself will not be touched, picked up, or will there be any contact of said motor unless I give permission to that person, and they say what it is they are going to do, and they only do as they say they would.


OK, folks, here's what I received today after advising Mr. Gustum that if he would not allow inspection of his device, it would likely be impossible to test it (unless of course we ran it perpetually).
================================================== ====
----- Original Message -----
From: kirklynn
To: Kramer
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: kramer here


Exactly what are you talking about.. Not being paranormal?? etc.. I would suggest you read this EMAIL very carfully.. As, I will present you a motor that is fully perpetual by the defintion given on my accepted application.. I will warn you As, I have lawer on this now, and you need to watch you Ps, and Qs as it were, as you guys have yourself in a very touchy situation, and you don't want me to start pushing things, that I can prove in writing from you, James Randi, and other I have written to involved with JREF.. I kept it all.. WATCH YOURSELF..

I'm not doing anything to you yet nor will I if I'm tested as you stated.. If you now think the testing option I have given is unfair, you will need to state very clearly why, and to what you would now accept for this perpetual motion motor to be something that would win the prize, and I may work with you on that, as I do have 21 different styles all of which work and some of which do not require gravity, first, I need you to answer all the things I'm asking in this email... And I tell you this, I'm not out of this testing, and you will see why after you read this.. AGAIN.. READ IT VERY CARFULLY.. I told you before, I was taking the prize money home, even if I have to use my lawer to get the testing you promised, and said all it has to do is work, What, affraid I may have something that does, and you don;t want to give out the $1,000,000.. I have enough on JREF to win a court case already.. I know this, and it is more evident when the lawer says, no need to pay him, He will take money directly from what we get from you guys..

I'm not threating you, don't get me wrong.. I was this.. Clear answers on why now a motor that runs on Gravity is bing called not paranormal.. Any Judge in the country would agree that it is..

Definition of paranormal is,
[adj] not in accordance with scientific laws; "what seemed to be paranormal manifestations"
[adj] seemingly outside normal sensory channels
You see scientific laws clearly state that something as my gravity motor can not work, and even nature as we know it.. So, by definition by it working it would be "paranormal"

The LAWS:
The First Law of Thermodynamics
The energy of an isolated system is constant

or

dU = dq + dw (The change in internal energy = heat change + work done on system)

Other state functions
H = U + PV :Enthalpy

The Second Law
The entropy of an isolated system increases in the course of a spontaneous change

No process is possible in which the sole result is the absorption of heat from a reservoir and its complete conversion into work

The Clausius inequality
For an irreversible process dS > dq/T

Other state functions
A = U - TS Helmholtz function

G = H - TS Gibbs function (Free energy)

NOW MR. KRAMER you say now that if the device runs on gravity is not paranormal?? If there were another device as such we would not be paying for electric for our homes, or driving cars that used gas, fuels etc.. That sounds pretty paranormal.. I beleive a judge would tend to side with me here and so would a JURY.... And you, and Mr. JAMES RANDI did also, as I have your emails, and letters clearly stating you did... So, what changed?? I'm all ears??

Infact, I have saved every email that has been exchanged, and letter, and there was no problem with this before.. What your worried you may have to pay out the money.. Oh, no.. isn't that what you claim the money is a prise for something that works, as such.. I save your web links, and printer them saying that a perpetual motion would fit into this catagory.. and again, I will say it again YOU accepted my device..
Infact, I will tell you an exact quote from The letter I have from JAMES RANDI that also quotes from my letter along with his reply and his accepting this to my terms..

"Mr. Gustum:
In your overly-long summery of your claim, received yesterday. you state:
The motor is a free running device that will not require any electric, or fuel other than its own mass which is gravity, will make a shaft turn.... I will allow the test to last as long as needed to prove that the motor is generating its own power and that there are not outside powers other than gravity making the perpetual motor run.... This motor is perpetual motion by the definition of, once running it will continue to run unless, it is stopped by a outside means such as a brake, a load to big for the motor, or the mechanical wearing out of the parts of the machine.
In other words, you are claiming that you can construct a machine that can run forever (with the exceptions you stated) without any force other than gravity being the motive agent. Is that correct? It is also not clear weather you already have such a device constructed, or weather you already have such a device constructed, or whether you only intend to construct it. If the latter, we would want to await that even, or course.
Your application, if that is correct, and you have a demonstration ready to go, is accepted. We are not interested in why you think this will work, nor are we interested in why you think it will work, nor are we interested in testing for any output. We are only concerned with the claim as stated above. You will produce a motor that turns a shaft perpetually without the input of any external power; if you do that under proper observation, you will win the prize.
Please deal now with Mr. Kramer, who will handle your application from this point on.
We await your responce. copy: Mr. Kramer, JREF"
Then it is signed by James Randi President

I have printed out all emails including the one you Mr. Kramer said that my motor is accepted, because I stated that I had it and was ready for testing, .. And, also the Emails where you mocked, and riddiclued me saying many have tried, and never ever made it past the first test, and that I should just decline and save myself of embarasment.. etc. etc.. The court will like these emails let me tell you.
My Lawer really likes these letters, and Let me just say it nice.. Your and JREF are in DEEP, DEEP trouble unless you do as you say you would, Come see this motor yourself, or you do something that makes me happy so, I don;t need to press charges.... You agreed to my testing, I have a signed paper saying that it is accepted, and I have been told by you and Mr. Randi that you are not at all interested in the workings, in seeing them, or even understanding how they work.. I even told you I was in the procces of patenting them, and you said that was not a problem as you only need to see it work, YOU, NOR JREF is interested in how it works, nor knowing, or seeing the inner workings..

A direct quote from Jeff Kramer email said this..

and I quote:

"You "machine" either works, or it doesn't. The only difficulty I can foresee is in finding someone within reasonable proxinity to your location who will agree to assist us in conducting the test."

I have lots more proof, you want me to list it all?? I think a nice website would do you some good maybe? And maybe connect it with lots of search words some high powered search engines??.. I tell you, not only will you get laughed at, you will make the news after I start taking this thing to court.. You should have maybe did alittle research on who your dealing with, and who I'm related to?? I bet you would love to be interviewd by Twenty-Twenty or others? I did what I was to to, I applied, I told you exactly what I was claiming in my overly long as you put it summary.. You accepted it, and agreed to my claims..

Now, I get this email saying this..

"Forgive me, but am I to understand that you will NOT allow any inspection of the insides of your device?

If so, your claim cannot possibly be tested, and we would have no choice but to REJECT your application and close your file"

Boy, This shocks me..

Really, after Mr. James Randi himself accepted my device on the terms that I stated one being that I would not allow any one to see the inner workings of the motor..

So, what happens if someone is truely a psychic.. Are you going to claim that a person who is, and test to be a psychic is not.. I'm affraid you may be in over your head.. with me.. I may not be at spelling, but, my IQ will blow your mind.. Just test me and see how far I take this.. I'm into winning.. That is part of why I applied, I'm a winner, and I have t motor that will win your prize.. In fact 21.. And, yes, some many of which don't need gravity if you want to play that game.. But, really can you tell me what gravity is.. I can tell you, but that is right, you dont want and I quote "We have no interest in theories or explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if you provide us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded." So you now, you say that you need to see the workings of my motor to know that it works.. Ahhh way wrong answer.. !! You already agreed to the fact that they would not need to be seen.. (I may if you really really need to see them let one person involved in testing see.. On at the first test, and one at the last test, and that person will SIGN non disclosure agreement, and the workings will not be discussed, other than if I have a cheat such as a battery and a motor, or something would be considered a cheat.. Then after this person discussed with me how they can prove I'm cheating (which I am not, then I would with draw my device, If I'm not cheating, and you still feel I am I would have a outside party not picked by me or JREF who is qualified inspect it (after again signing a NDA, and they will be the deciding factor of if this works with out cheating.. At no time will the internal parts be disscussed with other people, filmed or other..

In fact me doing this for you is a would be a nice gesture on my part as your rules clearly say..

"No part of the testing procedure may be changed in any way without the agreement of all parties concerned. JR may be present at some preliminary or formal tests, but will not interact with the materials used" Something more from your rules.. "This preliminary test is to determine if the applicant is likely to perform as promised during a formal test. To date, no applicant has passed the preliminary test, and this has eliminated the need for formal testing in those cases. There is no limit on the number of times an applicant may re-apply, but re-application can take place only after 12 months have elapsed since the preliminary test.

Now, My lawer would have to ask hmm, I wonder why no one ever makes it to the 2nd test.. maybe because, If they look like they could win you try changing the rules, which you can't unless I agree.. I would strongly suggest working with me and again very carefully watching your mouth.. I told you, and I will tell you again, I have a perpetual motion motor and I will go home with the prize, I did not get in this to loose, I did not bluff, and I do have what I say, and more.. And if need be, and you play alittle game now and pretent that somene else all of a sudden wins the prize, real or staged, I will still get my money.. Your changing things to protect your ever precious prize money is not going to work with me, I have the power behind me... The only way you will get out of this, is to find that I do not have a working motor.. And that I do, and gain 21,, let me say that one more time.. 21.. Ok.. I do not like to act this way, but let me tell you, when you set something up like your prize account, and do not do as the terms stated, and try to change things after accepting the testing.. I will tell you your at risk of losing all.. JREF can be treminated, sued, and or fined etc.. Let not go down that road...

And yes, my motor can and will be tested, and unless you can not prove that it does not run because gravity, I will be the prize, and I quote from MR JAMES RANDI " If you do that under proper observation, you will win the prize" , it will be still be tested, and if you want to work in something totaly off the wall, I may accept your extra challenge, but again in NO WAY can the internal parts or workings become public knowledge you want me use another type of force other than gravity, I may even do that, but again as your test states it must be agreed upon.. If not.. YOU WILL BE REQUIRE TO TEST ACCORDING TO WHAT I CLAIMED, YES, I have copies, hey , I sent one to Mr. Merten up.. I don't through away any infomation.. To bad for you huh..

You want idaes on how to test my motor, It can be tested by time, and power output, or what ever example would qulify it as not getting a outside power (except for gravity or other power if I agree to change the vary thing that makes it work).. If it passes up say a battery powering a motor that puts out aprox the same output of the gravity motor or other even the best batteries on the market, and having motor combination (in close weight tests and power) with these batteries of the same output, and after the battery and electric motor are dead you will fing that the gravity motor or other does not stop, but keeps right on going.. And, does not lose power over the same time periond as the battery and electric motor does, then you see the gravity motor or other is truly putting out power, and working on its own no electric, batteries, combustion fuel.. In fact this motor will out run you, and I.. It is a perpetual motion motor and as stated in the accepted terms will run until it wears out (long time) or is tipper out of alignment with gravity, it must sit close to level..

So, yes, my motor is a n your terms "paranormal" As even the USA patent office will not patent with out seeing a proper working proto type, which I might add they have not that pass as of yet, call them and see what they have to say, It did this because, it was sick of people wasting their money, because even though they had patents (over 600) none of them work, and None of them still work today.. Even the many claims that pop up and say they are working, In time they are proven to be frauds, and according to the laws of physics such as the laws of theromo dynamics etc. my motor is said to be impossible, and many other laws, and such.. And todate, other than mine there is now true working motor as such.. Some claim they are, but a good scientist, allowed to really research them will find they are not a working perpetual motion motor.. I have one, and I will prove it.. You can be part of that.. You know something I don't?? lay it on me..

So, after saying my claimed motor is accepted, your now trying to call it "nothing paranormal" I would watch what you say, my lawer would like nothing more than for me turn him loose on this one.. You would be a nice trophy on his wall to put it bluntly, Let me tell you that.. Good thing I keep all my information in a important matter like this huh..

Now, lets talk ...Why are you now trying to change things a round an try to wiggle your way out of not testing me ?? You affraid you will not have your $1,000,000.00? I told you I will win it.. What you think you found some one who claims they have such a thing as I, they have been doing that for over 300 hundred years, what now your a believer, and are affraid being wrong?? Well, guess what, I'm still going to be tested If I'm not, or you meaning paid off test people, or other wrong, and you will be wiching you never started such a test.. Loosing the $1,000,000 will be the easy part, and the fact that the gravity motor was accepted that will be tested.. you want me to have another of my motors that does not need gravity tested I may do that too, but, I better hear some REALLY GOOD REASONS, and it will still be my option to agree or not.. I'm hear to WIN that !,000,000 and I will.. I would have never signed up not to win, why waste my time.. I'm not a joke as you will soon see, and I'm not joking about any thing in this email, I may sound a little mad, and you would not even begin to know, nor, do you want to see just how far I will push the fact that you acting lig a little child, and you see your going to loose, so you try to change or lie your way out of this.. The BUCK stops here, I don't play games, and if I'm holding the winnings card lik I am right now, you will see that I will call your bluff, and I can and will push this just as far as I need to.. I will let you decide just where that line will be.. I will take you right to court, and beyond if you would like me to, and I will do what ever I have to, have you make you make good on you agreement.. I know that is how you rich people get to the top, by stepping on other people toes..

I'm ready for testing, are you?? I expect a answer back in 48 hours, or I do just as I have promised and just let my lawer go for it, he likes good easy money, and he will get it if need be..

You say, that the testor is ready, I'm gone until Wednesday next week as I'm on vacation.. Anyday after Wednesday is fine for me..

If you have woke up, and realize what I am talking about, then lets hear exactly what you need for testing, and what kind of perpetual motor you want, but, again, You already agreed If I decide to allow you to test one of my other motors that is up to me, but, guess what I just may do what you as, but, there will be no viewing of the internal motor parts, unless I have a NDA signed, and not cameras, or other of that area, and the person will not allowed to be telling anyone what he saw, And if anythig does getout about my technoogy, then you JREF, and anyone involved will be paying for all lost mone do to this, and patenting is something that must be kept confidential.. And you DID AGREE TO THIS..

Ok, I'm done

Now that was a long Summary.. Don't make this any worse than you have already.. It is just a contest, and I'm going to take the $1,000,000 home.. No funny stuff, as you are now under watch.. Yes, Government.. Places as yourself must not try to bend rules.. VERY BAD!! Plus, it makes for awful websites, people who can see the truth in black and white, tend to spread the very fast.. Negitive is not good business..

Hey, And if I'm not real, your off the hook.. But, If you see a working running motor, I would not try to cheat me.. I'm the wrong person to try that one on.. I'm not just hot air.. I will Do as I say, much like I did make my motor, and it does work...

And I Mr Jeff Kramer, I expect a reply back from you, and Mr. Jame Randi.. I don't get it, or your still trying to cheat me out of the prize I am entitled, I stop talking, and I push this for all that is possible to get out of it.. And JREF I'm sure JREF will be history.. And if not totaly the name will be as the saying goes MUD..

This email is in no way a threat.. It is only a warnig that if things go as you agreed, then I will be forced to act to protect my rights, and the rights of others, and to expose you as a FRAUD.. Not a FRAUD.. ?? PROVE IT, and stop changing the rules..

You DID agree that my terms, condtions, motor, and application was accepeted, and All I need to win the prize money is have this perpetual motion motor tested, and if it worked running on GRAVITY while sitting level (not upside down), and with out outside power (electric, gas, wind, solar, heat, ) then, I win.. It can, and I win, now you just have to confirm this, and Pay me the millon prommised..

Get Back to me ASAP.. And you know WHAT. I HAVE A PHONE.. CALL xxx-xxx-xxxx.. You said I will not have to come down there, And your right, But, If I am required to I will have you come up here, and I will a professional website made just for you, and I will not lie, I will tell the truth, and QUOTE your emails, letter etc..

Now, why did this have to come to this? Greed??? That is what I think.. All of a sudden you got worried that what I have May really work.. DUH.. I told you that,, YEP works,,

And you know what else, GOD is real, and someday EVERY KNEE shall bow, and every tonge confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD... You can doubt all you want, someday you will stand before him.. I would get to a United Pentecostal Church and learn of him.. And I will say, not GOOD to try to ripoff GODs people.. He keep track..

Too paranormal for you.. We people are dumb to see our selves as more than we are, look up to the stars, and all the universe, Think it is impossible for GOD to always have been here?? Well think of this, if he can't be.. Then, how did you get here? If it were not possible, then there would be nothing.. But your here, you can not deny that now can you... So, can you see such proof and deni GOD, even though history shows very clearly he is GOD..

Just some food for thought..

GET BACK TO ME A.S. A.P.

I don't like waiting.. I need to know what step I sohld be taking next..
=============================================

Grumble, Grumble, Groan. Threats and more threats. Talk of lawyers, but never a materialization of one.

Yes, folks, this is what normally happens when people refuse to adhere to the Challenge rules, which clearly state that a demonstration of their claim under "proper observing conditions" will win the prize money. It also clearly states that test protocol must be mutually agreed to by both parties.

This is what I deal with every day. Usually, the only people who
know how to behave like human beings are the dowsers. There are exceptions to this, but not often. Dowsers accept their failures, offer an excuse for why they failed, and then they go away. But people like this, well, they're all too common.

By the way, Professor Gerry Mertens of St. Cloud University plans to visit Mr. Gustum this weekend, should Mr. Gustum chose to receive him. We are ready to look at his "device", if he'll deign to allow it.

And so ends the debut entry in the MILLION DOLLAR CHALLENGE
log. More tomorrow, if the Hurricane isn't here yet.
__________________
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JREF Paranormal Challenge Desk
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Old 7th September 2004, 11:24 AM   #2
KRAMER
Former challenge facilitator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,443
More on Kirk Gustum

Last week, before the hurricane hit, I got an apologetic email from Mr. Gustum, explaining that he was in the midst of passing a kidney stone when he wrote the angry, threatening email to me.
His excuse was offered in all seriousness. He even elaborated.

Today, I received THIS:
=====================================
Hi Kramer,

I just wanted to know I will get back to you guys in a few weeks.. The company that is paying for my patenting does not want me showing any internal designs until they have all the paper work sent in and secured.. Then no problems with that.. So, after they do all that I will send a email letting you know I'm ready for testing.. I will say plan for about the the first week of Oct.

So, just put me on the side for now, and I will get back with you..

Thanks,

Kirk G
========================================
We've heard this one before, too, Kirk. We've heard it all.
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JREF Paranormal Challenge Desk
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Old 7th September 2004, 11:30 AM   #3
KRAMER
Former challenge facilitator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,443
OK, I found the apologetic email. Enjoy.
============================================
Hi, I would like to appoligize.. I never had any lawer, The fact was I was having a rough time, turns out I was am passing a size 4-6 kidney stone, having some majoe blockage, and pain, and thought I was going to die.. So, after getting your email I went off at the mouth, And that is all it was... I'm very sorry for my actions.. I was out of line, and really talking stupid.. I do ask for JREFs forgivness.. I was a total butt.. I understand your anger at me as you are just doing your job, and JREF is just trying to do a honest testing.. And I know you are really a group of people trying to good, and was a jerk... Plain and simple..

As for testing.. Of my device.. I really want to do this I do, and I want you to be satisfied.. So, question is.. If you must inspect the workings, can we keep the workings secret? As, if I were to have the internal working made public knowledge it would defeat the purpose of the prize money because It would no longer be able to have a international pattent.. So, can we have the testors sign a NDA and keep the internal workings under wraps, at least for 2 years??

Also, you said you now do not wnat the gravity powered perpetual motor, or is that still ok? The reason I ask is I have a motor that works on another form of power that is not gravity.. So, would you prefer that instead? Or can we continue with the gravity one.. Just let me know what you require, and I will have to produce what your looking for, other wise I will never have a chance at the prize right..

Let me know your thought on testing, the NDA, and the type of motor you would best like to test.. And I will take it from there..

Again.. For what is is worth, i'm sorry for my last email, and I would really never go after JREF, and would not make a website, as that would be as mean as my dumb email..

Thanks for your time..

Kirk
==============================================
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Old 30th March 2005, 10:53 AM   #4
KRAMER
Former challenge facilitator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,443
Vanishing Act

We have not heard from this applicant since September, 2004.

I guess he really doesn't have a device that will change the world.
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