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#1 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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NYCCAN - New NY Ballot Initiative 2014
NYCCAN lives to fail another day!
Just got an email from their dusty old email account. "The New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN) is excited to announce the launch of the “High-rise Safety Initiative,” a new ballot initiative that will amend the New York City Charter to require the NYC Department of Buildings to investigate all high-rise building collapses occurring in New York City on or after September 11, 2001, except the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. The Initiative will apply to the collapse of WTC 7 on September 11, 2001, as well as any high-rise collapse that occurs in the future. "As many of you know, the City of New York blocked NYC CAN’s 2009 ballot initiative from going before the voters and becoming law. Five years later, we are sponsoring a new ballot initiative that has been carefully crafted to withstand any legal challenge the City might bring." High Rise Safety Ballot Initiative "For the proposed charter amendment to appear on the November 4, 2014 ballot, we need to submit 30,000 signatures from registered New York City voters by July 3, 2014, and a second submission of 15,000 signatures by September 5, 2014. To be sure we have enough valid signatures, the High-rise Safety Initiative is aiming to gather 75,000 signatures for the first submission, and 35,000 signatures for the second submission." They're expecting they might have a legal battle. Get this: "The petition drive, which will run from May to July 2014, will cost $250,000. The High-rise Safety Initiative is working with a political consulting firm that specializes in field operations to manage the petition drive – which all but ensures that we will successfully gather enough signatures if we meet our fundraising goal. After that, up to $50,000 may be needed for litigation." Ted Walter appears to be managing the initiative. No mention of thermite or controlled demolition in the About page, but stolen steel and "no highrise had ever collapsed from fire" makes it pretty obvious they're not interested in an investigation which confirms what we already know. |
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#2 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,734
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This should be easy.
Quote:
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#3 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 694
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Hey...sent us money...and more money...we are the good guys! [dws]
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Conspiracy theories are for morons, who like to feel they are smarter than everyone else… |
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#4 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,696
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So they want an investigation of WTC7, basically. Even NYCCAN'T has given up on nanothermite and controlled demolition.
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Truthers only insist that there must have been some sinister purpose behind [WTC7] because they already think there's a sinister purpose behind everything. -Horatius |
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#5 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,734
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Quote:
"As you know we screwed up and forgot to read up on state laws. We proposed a law that would have violated the law by side stepping the courts and putting the law in our hands. We know this sounds good but, it's illegal. We appreciate all the money you gave us but, we need more. We will achieve nothing but you will feel good about knowing we can eat tonight. In "truth we trust:. " |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#6 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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IANAL, but I'm betting a court would throw out the retroactive investigation provision. Also, I'll bet they'll get some push-back on the building permit surcharge. Of course, that may be what they want; to a lot of Truthers, there really is no such thing as bad publicity.
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#8 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,733
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I predict Failure.
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Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed. For my complete compilation of evidence showing AAL77 hit the Pentagon -http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/ For my compilation of evidence for UAL93 - http://ual93.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88 |
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#9 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,592
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#10 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
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They know there’s no success like failure
And that failure’s no success at all http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/lov...-zero-no-limit |
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#11 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 3,199
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This group appeals to the naivete of people with no technical understanding whatsoever and a belief that government will always lie whenever they issue official statements about anything. That combination of naive and let's call it distrustful is large enough to raise money to run their organization and to essentially force an official response which will reject the claims and then becomes proof... the self fulfilling prophesy to this group that they were lied to. They can't lose and they return again with the same old same old and more "proof" of conspiracy.
It's pathetic in the face of all the excellent technical analysis which has been done over the years... and which they simply close their minds to. |
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So many idiots and so little time. |
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#12 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 388
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Same Project Coordinator as ReThink911, same web developer. Probably other overlaps, too.
This here is an activity that leans heavily towards the lobbying side, though, so they probably couldn't do it under the tax-exempt umbrella of AE911Truth. |
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#13 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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So, how many high rise building collapses have there been since WTC 7? Zero?
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#14 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#15 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#16 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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That would be the story in some other thread. The story in this thread is about the liars at NYCCAN playing a little fancy free with the law and using sophistry to try to get their pet project on the ballot again. Did you have something to say on this important ballot initiative, or just like NYCCAN are you trawling the old fishing lanes hoping for a nibble?
If they spent several years studying the law, I don't think they did a very good job of it. Any New York lawyers in the house? Does a ballot initiative that has taxation as part of it have any standing under law? In short, are they just hoping for a Pyrrhic victory in getting it on the ballot so they can claim they've done something? |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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IANAL, but, as was discussed in regard to NYCCAN's previous failed initiative, basically, any proposal that costs money is required to include a funding mechanism. This is black-letter law, and is one of several major reasons that said previous initiative was unable to pass judicial muster; the court did not accept that donations would provide a legitimate basis for supplying revenue. ETA: As I mentioned up-thread, I expect there will be some push-back from building contractors who don't want to pay more for building permits, but that's probably just fine with NYCCAN. |
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#18 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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You can see their fundraising tally at the Donate page:
http://highrisesafetynyc.org/donate/ $2,075 so far. Haven't seen a signature tally, but I believe they're being collected on paper. |
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#19 |
Goddess of Legaltainment™
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35,959
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#20 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,726
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Hmmm, no mention yet of this on Flogger or 9-11Truth dot org. Could it be that they're learning from the past debacles?
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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#22 |
beer-swilling semiliterate
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,455
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#23 |
beer-swilling semiliterate
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,455
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Here's the heart of the petition:
Quote:
B) Any building? You mean they could come in my house? Got a Fourth Amendment problem here, guys. C) But WTC7 has already been investigated. They just didn't like the results. |
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#24 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,338
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#25 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,734
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Wouldn't be the ultimate slap if this gets passed and the department votes unanimously to adopt the NIST findings.
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__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#26 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#27 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#28 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,734
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__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#29 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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If the ballot initiative passes, and is found not to violate any provisions of the initiative law, or of the NY State Constitution, it will become law just as if the NYC Council had passed it. Many non-judicial investigative bodies have subpoena power, e. g., the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). |
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 54,815
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How much of a boost did they get from the Truther who crashed the post Superbowl News Conference shouting Truther Slogans?
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#31 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#32 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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Well, they've only raised $3,103 so far ($1,027 in the past 33 hours) so not much.
They're averaging around $1,034 a day. Let's see if they can keep this up. Donation tally here: http://highrisesafetynyc.org/donate/ They say they need $250,000 to $300,000. There are 152 days between Feb 2 when they began, and when the fundraising drive is due to end (July 3). Even if they keep this up, they'll only raise $157,168 and they won't make it. |
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#33 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 40,313
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Still nothing on http://www.911truth.org/
But there seems to have been an article a day or two ago on Flogger by someone called "Joe". http://911blogger.com/news/2014-02-0...ety-initiative One pathetic comment (unrelated to the initiative) so far, by "Orangutan". |
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#34 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 388
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#35 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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Paid gunslingers. They're not going to mis-manage the signatures themselves this time, but hire a public relations consultancy to do it for them. See the OP. They say that if they raise the money, this virtually guarantees them enough signatures. That's about ten bucks a signature which is rather on the high end of the costs for collecting signatures (yes, this is a common practice - there are companies whose business is doing just that).
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__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#36 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 388
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Looks like a lucrative business.
So they are literally buying the signatures? |
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#37 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#38 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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No. They employ paid signature gatherers. If you have enough people collecting, you're virtually guaranteed to meet your quota. To expand on my previous post, if a company hires attractive young women, there will be lots of men who will at least listen to the pitch, and probably go along in an attempt to curry favor with the signature taker, or at least spend more time enjoying the eye candy. ![]() |
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#39 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,229
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__________________
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
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#40 |
Goddess of Legaltainment™
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35,959
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I agree that it's better written than the previous one (which was a complete clusterfail from start to finish) but I think that this do-over still has some fatal problems. I will hold off on pointing those out until the group is beyond the point where the wording of the petition can be changed, though. ![]() |
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