ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags airplane incidents , government conspiracies , Malaysia incidents

Reply
Old 8th March 2014, 11:18 PM   #1
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Malaysia Airlines MH 370 Hoax

The stolen passports seem real, yet the incident itself smacks of a hoax, as a media diversion from the Ukraine situation.

"Malaysia Airlines flight MH 370

... After the airline released a manifest of the 239 people on the plane, Austria denied that one of its citizens was on the flight as the list had stated. The Austrian citizen was safe and sound, and his passport had been stolen two years ago, Austrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Martin Weiss said.

Similarly, Italy's foreign ministry confirmed that no Italians were on the flight, even though an Italian was listed on the manifest. Malaysian officials said they were aware of reports that the Italian's passport was also stolen but had not confirmed it." -- http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/08/wo...html?hpt=hp_t1

"(Reuters) - Radar tracking a missing Malaysia Airlines flight indicated that it may have turned back from its scheduled route to Beijing before disappearing" -- http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0M605320140309

Only now they found out that the airliner had turned back? Surely those who tracked the plane's flight path live would have noticed that.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th March 2014, 11:44 PM   #2
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 33,817
It's not unusual for passports to be stolen.

And air traffic controllers have one set of information, the military have another, and civilians have yet more. It takes a while for the information to be shared, and more time for it to be known to the media.

Unlike a few seconds to say "hoax" without doing any thinking.
__________________
Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Australasian Skeptics Forum.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th March 2014, 11:47 PM   #3
Hans
Illuminator
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,545
The smart thing to do would be to wait for more information instead of speculating.....oh wait it's Anders.........please babble on sire, as the crowd awaits your comedy routine
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th March 2014, 11:53 PM   #4
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
It's not unusual for passports to be stolen.

And air traffic controllers have one set of information, the military have another, and civilians have yet more. It takes a while for the information to be shared, and more time for it to be known to the media.

Unlike a few seconds to say "hoax" without doing any thinking.
Notice the numerous so-called 'mysteries' popping up in the news reporting. Those are deliberately planted as smokescreens and media attention baits, such as:

"Many questions, no answers in disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

... The latest revelation added to the questions that have puzzled authorities since the commercial jetliner, carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew members, went missing early Saturday while flying from the Malaysian capital to Beijing: what happened to the plane, why was no distress signal issued, and who exactly was aboard?" -- http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/09/wo...html?hpt=hp_t1

The interesting question is if this apparent hoax is meant to be more than just a media diversion. Could be. We will see what happens in the near future.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th March 2014, 11:58 PM   #5
Hans
Illuminator
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,545
If you wait more things will happen in the world to divert the people away from this story..as a matter of fact there is a high chance of things happening ALL the time ....so clever these ultra evil elite.

Lol
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:18 AM   #6
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
If you wait more things will happen in the world to divert the people away from this story..as a matter of fact there is a high chance of things happening ALL the time ....so clever these ultra evil elite.

Lol
I meant that the deeper purpose of a staged hoax in this case can be to stir up a debate around fakery in general. For example, was there a real plane at all?
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:20 AM   #7
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
It's not unusual for passports to be stolen.

And air traffic controllers have one set of information, the military have another, and civilians have yet more. It takes a while for the information to be shared, and more time for it to be known to the media.

Unlike a few seconds to say "hoax" without doing any thinking.
Anders thinks it's funny when people die. It's too much to hope that he'd show any restraint.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:22 AM   #8
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,105
It never takes long for them to come out of the woodwork.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:23 AM   #9
Hans
Illuminator
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,545
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
I meant that the deeper purpose of a staged hoax in this case can be to stir up a debate around fakery in general. For example, was there a real plane at all?
Yes there was a real plane...you really need to calm down and realize that accidents or other things happen the real world.

How do we know you are real and not an illusion or an evil elite's hoax?

Lol
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:25 AM   #10
Hans
Illuminator
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,545
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Anders thinks it's funny when people die. It's too much to hope that he'd show any restraint.

Oh but you see he knows because his Andervisionator allows him to see that which mere mortals cannot...like no real humans were involved

It's truly amazing

Anders why not question the existence of Malaysia too.....lol

Last edited by Hans; 9th March 2014 at 12:29 AM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:27 AM   #11
Hans
Illuminator
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,545
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
It never takes long for them to come out of the woodwork.
When you need attention just say something unfounded and the adults here will correct you..........
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:29 AM   #12
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 21,828
Quote:
... Only now they found out that the airliner had turned back? Surely those who tracked the plane's flight path live would have noticed that.
And you are familiar with over-water ATC procedures in that airspace?



Where were they? Who is tracking the flight? Have you flown as a crew member or are you familiar with ATC procedures? You seem to make up stuff based on no facts, no evidence, and zero knowledge of the systems involved.

The new reports may not be accurate, and flying there is not like flying in the states.

As more is released I cringe at what sick fantasy you will concoct to spread lies and paranoia conspiracy style.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:34 AM   #13
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yes there was a real plane...you really need to calm down and realize that accidents or other things happen the real world.
"However the flight disappeared, the mother of Philip Wood - one of three Americans on the flight - was resigned that he was gone. "You want to know how it feels to lose a son at the age of 50? It's devastating,'' Sandra Wood said. She saw her son, an IBM executive who worked in Malaysia, a week ago." -- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...o-far/6221949/

That seems to be a real person, but he could have been in on the hoax and be safe, still alive, hiding somewhere! It could even be a vicsim.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 12:56 AM   #14
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Edited by kmortis:  Removed previously moderated content


But where is the supposed plane? Gone, it is!

"SEPANG, March 9 — Nearly 38 hours have gone by since MH370 disappeared from radar, but despite the massive search and rescue effort by Malaysian and foreign military, there is still no sign of the missing aircraft." -- http://www.themalaymailonline.com/ma...-sign-of-mh370

"(CNN) -- How can a Boeing 777-200ER passenger jet go missing for more than a day? Turns out, it's not so easy.

That's not just because the state-of-the-art jetliner has a wing span of nearly 200 feet and a length of more than 209 feet. It's also because it's bristling with communications gear, including radios, automatic beacons, GPS and computer communications systems, according to CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest.

In addition to carrying UHF and VHF radios, the planes -- which cost more than $250 million apiece -- are equipped with Aircraft Communications and Reporting System technology. Embedded in the plane's computers, it tells the airline how the aircraft is performing -- speed, fuel, thrust. "If anything fails, it will send a signal to Malaysia Airlines," Quest said." -- http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/08/wo...html?hpt=hp_t1

Last edited by kmortis; 10th March 2014 at 10:09 AM.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:14 AM   #15
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 25,804
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"However the flight disappeared, the mother of Philip Wood - one of three Americans on the flight - was resigned that he was gone. "You want to know how it feels to lose a son at the age of 50? It's devastating,'' Sandra Wood said. She saw her son, an IBM executive who worked in Malaysia, a week ago." -- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...o-far/6221949/

That seems to be a real person, but he could have been in on the hoax and be safe, still alive, hiding somewhere! It could even be a vicsim.
Anders,
Every tragedy in the world does not need to bring out your Chuckles the Clown conspiracy persona. Would you care to meet the families of some of the victims you accuse of complicity or being made-up entities. I'm sure it could be arranged. Jerry Springer would come out of retirement to do the show. Hell, Allen Burke would come back from the dead to do so.

Let 'em find the wreckage before you start your sick fantasies going, why dontcha? Why not drop into the RT comments section. More of your ilk on there alternating blaming China, blaming the US, blaming Russia. Like you, they've already solved it and it's the usual culprits: Some group I don't like.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]
Foolmewunz is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:27 AM   #16
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Anders,
Every tragedy in the world does not need to bring out your Chuckles the Clown conspiracy persona. Would you care to meet the families of some of the victims you accuse of complicity or being made-up entities. I'm sure it could be arranged. Jerry Springer would come out of retirement to do the show. Hell, Allen Burke would come back from the dead to do so.

Let 'em find the wreckage before you start your sick fantasies going, why dontcha? Why not drop into the RT comments section. More of your ilk on there alternating blaming China, blaming the US, blaming Russia. Like you, they've already solved it and it's the usual culprits: Some group I don't like.
"Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Even if a wreckage is found, it could have been a plane without passengers or crew, like TWA 800.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:30 AM   #17
Hans
Illuminator
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,545
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"However the flight disappeared, the mother of Philip Wood - one of three Americans on the flight - was resigned that he was gone. "You want to know how it feels to lose a son at the age of 50? It's devastating,'' Sandra Wood said. She saw her son, an IBM executive who worked in Malaysia, a week ago." -- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...o-far/6221949/

That seems to be a real person, but he could have been in on the hoax and be safe, still alive, hiding somewhere! It could even be a vicsim.
........or you are just making stuff up
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:30 AM   #18
Cool Hand Luke
Muse
 
Cool Hand Luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman;9886621,
the planes -- which cost more than $250 million apiece -- are equipped with Aircraft Communications and Reporting System technology. Embedded in the plane's computers, it tells the airline how the aircraft is performing -- speed, fuel, thrust. "If anything fails, it will send a signal to Malaysia Airlines," Quest said."
.
The ACARS system is VHF-based so it has limited range and does not work during trans-ocean segments unless the airline also invested in a satellite uplink for the aircraft.

As this was a 777-200 I would suspect that it would have a sat link, but you never know. Some airlines do not fit them on anything that isn't used on trans-ocean routings.

And even if it did have a sat link the messages from the ACARS system are little bursts of data that usually indicate a reading is outside of normal operating range on a particular system. It's not like they'd get a 100Mb data dump. You would, at best, get some engine performance and system failure indicators that tell you that something was going wrong with little to no real indication of why.

So the airline may or may not have data from the plane and if they do it may or may not include anything useful.

Yet another CT knocked in the cold, hard ditch of reality.
__________________
.
Say what you want about the tenets of International Skepticism, but at least it's an ethos.
.

Last edited by Cool Hand Luke; 9th March 2014 at 01:32 AM.
Cool Hand Luke is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:42 AM   #19
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 33,935
The sad thing about threads like this is that, ridiculous and stupid as they are, they will provoke responses which, while reasonable in their criticism, will get people in trouble. Just like this post.

Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound. This is an utterly stupid thread.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:49 AM   #20
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Even if a wreckage is found, it could have been a plane without passengers or crew, like TWA 800.
Don't be silly, you don't have an argument.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:50 AM   #21
cjnewson88
Graduate Poster
 
cjnewson88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,599
Seriously? Go away.
__________________
Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed.
Over 140 pieces of evidence showing American 77 hit the Pentagon http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/
http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88
cjnewson88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 01:59 AM   #22
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 25,804
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Even if a wreckage is found, it could have been a plane without passengers or crew, like TWA 800.
Why should I care about logical fallacies? I'm trying to see where in the MA it says that I can't argue from emotion. Emotion is a very handy thing for those of us who have it. It's the cause of sympathy and empathy which do not cancel out logic, but actually enhance it.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]
Foolmewunz is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:07 AM   #23
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Why should I care about logical fallacies? I'm trying to see where in the MA it says that I can't argue from emotion. Emotion is a very handy thing for those of us who have it. It's the cause of sympathy and empathy which do not cancel out logic, but actually enhance it.
If emotions prevent one from looking into possible conspiracies, then that's a logical fallacy.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:11 AM   #24
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
.
The ACARS system is VHF-based so it has limited range and does not work during trans-ocean segments unless the airline also invested in a satellite uplink for the aircraft.

As this was a 777-200 I would suspect that it would have a sat link, but you never know. Some airlines do not fit them on anything that isn't used on trans-ocean routings.

And even if it did have a sat link the messages from the ACARS system are little bursts of data that usually indicate a reading is outside of normal operating range on a particular system. It's not like they'd get a 100Mb data dump. You would, at best, get some engine performance and system failure indicators that tell you that something was going wrong with little to no real indication of why.

So the airline may or may not have data from the plane and if they do it may or may not include anything useful.

Yet another CT knocked in the cold, hard ditch of reality.
"Malaysia's air force chief, General Rodzali Daud, citing radar data, says there "is a distinct possibility the airplane did a turn-back, deviating from the course," but Malaysia Airlines chief executive Ahmad Jauhari Yahya said the Boeing 777's systems would have set off alarm bells if it did." -- http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...6-21929428579e

Surely, the Malaysia Airlines chief by 'alarm bells' meant radio signals from the plane.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:12 AM   #25
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
If emotions prevent one from looking into possible conspiracies, then that's a logical fallacy.
You evidence of your claim now.

ETA being justifiably disgusted by your disregard for human life is not a fallacy.

Last edited by Craig4; 9th March 2014 at 02:14 AM.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:17 AM   #26
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You evidence of your claim now.
Fake radar report:

"Radar signals show a Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than 24 hours may have turned back, Malaysian officials have said." -- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26502843
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:19 AM   #27
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
Fake radar report:

"Radar signals show a Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than 24 hours may have turned back, Malaysian officials have said." -- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26502843
That is not what you were instructed to produce. You show nothing indicating this is fake. What was unclear about my instructions to you?

ETA: What about this is funny to you? Is it that picture on the lead of the story of the anguished relative? How about the obvious pain the Air Force Chief is in as he delivers to terrible news? How about the thought of the last moments for the passengers and crew before the end? I'm just curious which sort of suffering amuses you more.

Last edited by Craig4; 9th March 2014 at 02:27 AM.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:24 AM   #28
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You show nothing indicating this is fake.
"An Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200, registration 9M-MRO performing flight MH-370 from Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) to Beijing (China) with 227 passengers and 12 crew, was enroute at FL350 about 40 minutes into the flight about 90nm northeast of Kota Bharu (Malaysia) over the Gulf of Thailand in contact with Subang Center (Malaysia) just about to be handed off to Ho Chi Minh Air Traffic Control Center (Vietnam) when radar and radio contact was lost at about 01:22L (17:22Z Mar 7th)." -- http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b

No turning of the plane according to that radar data. I would say both radar reports are fake, not only conflicting.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:29 AM   #29
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"An Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200, registration 9M-MRO performing flight MH-370 from Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) to Beijing (China) with 227 passengers and 12 crew, was enroute at FL350 about 40 minutes into the flight about 90nm northeast of Kota Bharu (Malaysia) over the Gulf of Thailand in contact with Subang Center (Malaysia) just about to be handed off to Ho Chi Minh Air Traffic Control Center (Vietnam) when radar and radio contact was lost at about 01:22L (17:22Z Mar 7th)." -- http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b

No turning of the plane according to that radar data. I would say both radar reports are fake, not only conflicting.
You would say? So what? What value does that have?

Why are you having such a hard time following my very simple instructions? I'll invite any other forum member to chime in if they believe I was in any way unclear.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:34 AM   #30
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You would say? So what?
"We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar." -- http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03...ing-23-people/

In some parts corroborated by civilian radar? Does that sound plausible to you?
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:39 AM   #31
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar." -- http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03...ing-23-people/

In some parts corroborated by civilian radar? Does that sound plausible to you?

Do you see those two things at the end of those sentences? Pay attention here because this is important. Those would be questions marks. A key indicator that what you're producing in not evidence is that the sentence ends in a question mark. Now are you capable of following my instructions or not?
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:54 AM   #32
chrispy
Scholar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
"Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Even if a wreckage is found, it could have been a plane without passengers or crew, like TWA 800.
Okay, now prove that. No one dies on TWA 800. Great. Evidence?
chrispy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 02:55 AM   #33
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
A key indicator that what you're producing in not evidence is that the sentence ends in a question mark.
Inconsistent radar data = fakery. Now, you can try to come up with a special case to explain it away. Be prepared to come up with lots of improbable exceptions in your defense. Your combined argument will end up far off the end of the statistical bell curve. That's my guess at the moment.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 03:00 AM   #34
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Okay, now prove that. No one dies on TWA 800. Great. Evidence?
That's in this other thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=594
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 03:07 AM   #35
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
Inconsistent radar data = fakery. Now, you can try to come up with a special case to explain it away. Be prepared to come up with lots of improbable exceptions in your defense. Your combined argument will end up far off the end of the statistical bell curve. That's my guess at the moment.
I'm not making the claim young man, you are. Now prove inconsistent and fake are the same thing.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 03:36 AM   #36
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm not making the claim young man, you are. Now prove inconsistent and fake are the same thing.
This video shows the straight flight path: "The plane, which was carrying three Americans, went off radar without sending out a distress signal, meaning that whatever happened likely happened quickly." -- http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...tely-baffling/

Compared with:

""We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar." -- http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...ve_turned_back

It's unlikely a mistake. Therefore fakery. Because it's a trick to hugely widen the search area.
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 03:41 AM   #37
Anders Lindman
Penultimate Amazing
 
Anders Lindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,833
Morgan wrote: "Incredible in the modern age that a large hi-tech passenger plane can just 'disappear'. Praying for a miracle for the 239 people on board."

Nizar responded: "@piersmorgan @bobkurus new bermuda triangle detected in vietnam waters, well equipped sophisticated devices are of no use!"

From: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-mal...demned-1439486
Anders Lindman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 04:07 AM   #38
threadworm
Muse
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 844
Where was that thread about an obnoxious posters conspiracy...
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 04:07 AM   #39
abaddon
Philosopher
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,204
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
This video shows the straight flight path: "The plane, which was carrying three Americans, went off radar without sending out a distress signal, meaning that whatever happened likely happened quickly." -- http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...tely-baffling/

Compared with:

""We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar." -- http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...ve_turned_back

It's unlikely a mistake. Therefore fakery. Because it's a trick to hugely widen the search area.
Because everyone knows that disintegrating aircraft fragments cannot rotate, ever.

Sickest JREF thread ever.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2014, 04:13 AM   #40
Craig4
Philosopher
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 7,681
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
This video shows the straight flight path: "The plane, which was carrying three Americans, went off radar without sending out a distress signal, meaning that whatever happened likely happened quickly." -- http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...tely-baffling/

Compared with:

""We are trying to make sense of this," he told a media conference. "The military radar indicated that the aircraft may have made a turn back and in some parts, this was corroborated by civilian radar." -- http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...ve_turned_back

It's unlikely a mistake. Therefore fakery. Because it's a trick to hugely widen the search area.
So what I'm reading here is that there is no possible justification for the sadistic glee you take in the deaths and suffering if others.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:17 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.