Has anyone done an experiment using a large volume of molten metal and pouring it from a height in bright daylight conditions to try and replicate the molten metal seen pouring from the south tower before it collapsed and to see what color it would be in bright sunlight? This could then be tried with various molten metals to try to get a match for what was seen falling from the tower. Would such an experiment even be possible?
A Question About the Molten Metal Seen Pouring From the South Tower
- Thread starter Georgio
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And why would anyone want to do what you are suggesting ?
I thought it wasn't known what that metal was; whether it was iron from thermite or aluminum from the melted airplane or something else. Wouldn't such an experiment be able to determine what it was by matching the color in daylight conditions?
Surely this would be a job for truthers ?
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
It was likely a combination of metal and organics. Good guess would be caused by a failure of the UPS batteries in that area.
Seymour Butz
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There's no way that it was steel. The metal pouring out is red-orange. Steel at those temps is solidified and NOT in a liquid state. Therefore it cannot be steel.
It can only be aluminum or lead or a mixture of metals and glass and carpets and organics that have been heated beyond their melting point.
Remember that aluminum and lead can be heated beyond their melting points and will change color in accordance to black body radiation laws.
The problem that most people have is that their experience with melting things is limited to ice/water. In our common experiences, water doesn't change color as it is heated. Therefore it runs contrary to our "common sense" that metals, when heated beyond THEIR melting points, would. This why the insane claims of truth leaders and truthy YouTube posters are able to gain any traction with under educated troofers when they make statements about how melted aluminum and or lead isn't orange red......
It can only be aluminum or lead or a mixture of metals and glass and carpets and organics that have been heated beyond their melting point.
Remember that aluminum and lead can be heated beyond their melting points and will change color in accordance to black body radiation laws.
The problem that most people have is that their experience with melting things is limited to ice/water. In our common experiences, water doesn't change color as it is heated. Therefore it runs contrary to our "common sense" that metals, when heated beyond THEIR melting points, would. This why the insane claims of truth leaders and truthy YouTube posters are able to gain any traction with under educated troofers when they make statements about how melted aluminum and or lead isn't orange red......
Actually by 'anyone' I meant anyone in the world rather than anyone on JREF, but in answer to your question I would say, 'Yes, absolutely.'
I've read a fair bit about this issue and concepts like reflectance and emissivity and other things I only partially understand keep cropping up, and I just thought a more efficient way of settling it once and for all would be to actually heat up large quantities of different metals and combinations of metals, organic materials etc., in bright daylight until they glow orange then pour them out of the container and see if they stay orange as they are being poured like the 'whatever it was' did as it fell from the tower.
Also is it not correct to say that 'whatever it was' had to be at its melting point or very close to it since it was not in an enclosed container and so started falling out as soon as it became a liquid?
No, the color talks about temperature, not composition. And it proves it was not steel, see http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9711471&postcount=75
ETA: Oops, Seymour Butz already noted it but I think the link expands on it.
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Redwood
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It's not certain that it's even metal, though it's a pretty good bet. These glowing cascades from the Madrid Windsor fire almost certainly weren't metal.
The problem for Truthers is that this is mere idle discussion unless one can show that the glowing substance was crucial to the collapse, let alone that it was evidence of nefarious action.
The problem for Truthers is that this is mere idle discussion unless one can show that the glowing substance was crucial to the collapse, let alone that it was evidence of nefarious action.
Attachments
Animal
Master Poster
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
All they have to do is also match the lighting conditions and white balance and luminance levels of the cameras that caught the event. 
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Because they have a political world view that demands large conspiracies?
Al, you can see it turn silvery as it falls. Use your eyes Luke.
What else could it be? It was Al and other metals which melt below 1000C with slag from all the other stuff burning.
To replicate this you need an aircraft and a building; crash the aircraft at 590 mph into the building such that the aircraft and all the debris on one acre of the building end up in the corner, where fires melt not only the aircraft parts (aka Al), plus cladding that was dragged into the building by the impact, a Cladding of Al.
But if you like fantasy, go to Gage and Jones and they will tell you it is thermite because Jones is insane, and Gage is a liar. If you like liars, it is thermite, if you like reality, it is metals that melt in office fires, the biggest office fires in history.
19 terrorists did 911, as 911 truth does the Gish Gallop mocking the dead.
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ergo
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And how is any of this going to prove if thermite was used on 911
Fires get hot and things melt.
Epic fail is right, you show bronze, and some white hot steel. Oops. Did you mean to include bronze, miscellaneous metals, and slag, which kind of supports it was not steel pouring out of the WTC?
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Seymour Butz
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Well, I guess I shoulda written more about how under educated troofers are easily fooled into believing things that go against the laws of physics.
Maybe you woulda thought a little more and not posted something that makes you look like a fool.
Animal
Master Poster
NoahFence
Banned
Pretty safe to say it wasn't iron from thermite. Since there was no thermite present.
Most likely culprit is aluminum from the airplane mixed with lead from the UPS battery bank that we know for a fact was at that location. When the floor collapsed, it simply created a ramp that allowed it to exit the building.
Yes, the aluminium has flames, the steel doesn't. Since there were no flames visible in 9/11, it had to be steel.
[/woo]
NoahFence
Banned
OOH!!
One is pouring out, the other is BEING poured out.
One is pouring out, the other is BEING poured out.
If those two pictures hadn't been labelled I would have said they were the same material. However the photos appear to have been taken in low light conditions, as do the other pictures posted in the thread.
I would like to know what these materials (aluminum, steel, iron, aluminum+lead from batteries, aluminum+organic materials) look like when they are subjected to, roughly speaking, the same conditions as whatever it was we saw coming from the tower. That is to say:
1. A fairly large volume heated so it glowed orange outside in bright sunlight
2. Poured out and allowed to fall from about, say, 10 meters outside in bright sunlight.
By the way that picture from Yosemite National Park is amazing - I've never seen that before.
I would like to know what these materials (aluminum, steel, iron, aluminum+lead from batteries, aluminum+organic materials) look like when they are subjected to, roughly speaking, the same conditions as whatever it was we saw coming from the tower. That is to say:
1. A fairly large volume heated so it glowed orange outside in bright sunlight
2. Poured out and allowed to fall from about, say, 10 meters outside in bright sunlight.
By the way that picture from Yosemite National Park is amazing - I've never seen that before.
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Do you think it will help you establish if thermite was used ?
NoahFence
Banned
It's an exercise in futility, man.
These were some of the largest high-rise fires on record. There is going to be many, many unexplained things which does not indicate anything nefarious. It simply means that an event that has never happened before causes things we've never seen before. This should be as plain as the nose on your face.
These were some of the largest high-rise fires on record. There is going to be many, many unexplained things which does not indicate anything nefarious. It simply means that an event that has never happened before causes things we've never seen before. This should be as plain as the nose on your face.
ergo
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It also was showing as much white hot as the comparison pictures of molten steel. It's just a smaller volume.
Thermite is a fantasy made up by Jones who appears to lie about a lot of stuff, and might be insane. If you like fantasy dumbed down for idiots, go with thermite; wonder if fraud expert Gage goes with thermite.
More likely it was various metals and junk heated to 1000C and falling out the side. Don't forget there were oxygen generators in the mix from flight 175; how many oxygen generators were on board? Why not look up something and contribute more than recycling lies and fantasy from delusional 911 truth nuts?
Steel:
Aluminum:
See the difference?
Yes. Apparently, steel is copyrighted and people who use its picture without permission might get sued.
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NoahFence said:
That might very well be true (!) but it could help to settle certain things, e.g., if you took a load of pure aluminum, outside in bright sunlight, heated it until it melted and glowed orange and poured it and it went instantly silvery in mid air then you could rule out pure aluminum, then if you did it again but adding organic compounds and it stayed orange then it would strengthen that theory and so on.
spanx said:
I'm not actually trying to do that but if you did the above experiment and the only thing that was able to replicate what was seen coming out of the tower happened to be pure melted iron then yes it would strengthen the case for thermite being present, if not actually used to demolish the building.
The fact is I don't think I've ever seen a large volume of any molten metal being poured from a height, outside in bright sunlight. I suppose this stands to reason - why would anyone do it? I just think that if it were possible to do something like this it would be a more efficient way of trying to figure out what that material most likely was.
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
One can tell iron from aluminum plasmas with a spectrophotometer, but the human eye doesn't have near enough resolution or optical range to do this. Even if it did, films and videotape aren't designed to faithfully reproduce the electromagnetic spectrum of these elements.
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John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
How did you calculate the volumes?
NoahFence
Banned
Its a waste of time, money and intelligence to even begin such an experiment. You would have to both be really rich, and extremely bored. It serves no useful purpose.
19 terrorists did not bring thermite. You are chasing a delusional Gish Gallop, and that is all you present, one failed lie after another from idiots in 911 truth - when will you do some debunking?
The case against thermite is the nut who started it; Jones made it up.
Looks like you have fallen off the fence into 911 truth pig pen of woo.
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
Can you find any examples anywhere of thermite being used to create the same size mass of pouring steel?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
"I'm looking at these photos taken by audience members at the Westminster Dog Show, and I can't identify the breed of one of the contestants. Has anyone tried to reproduce the lighting conditions of the exhibition hall, and photograph various breeds, so that we can conclusively know whether it was a velociraptor?"
In fact the problems with the Westminster Velociraptor theory are so numerous and insurmountable, that the possibility of a velociraptor in audience photos may be safely ignored.
In fact the problems with the Westminster Velociraptor theory are so numerous and insurmountable, that the possibility of a velociraptor in audience photos may be safely ignored.
tsig
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If the steel beams were molten what was holding up the building?