AE911Truth's Shaky Moral Foundation ?

DaveThomasNMSR

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DaveThomasNMSR
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Normally I wouldn't give a lot of credence to alt-med, pro-Truther sites, but this article by Sarah C. Corriher of "Health Wyze," if true, really blows the lid off of the infighting and acrimony within Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

While Corriher is pro-Truther, she is very much anti-Gage. I can't post the lengthy article in toto, so here are a few blockbuster snippets to whet your appetite:

We reported about Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (ae911truth.org) in episode 16 of our audio reports. We worked for them as their systems administrators for almost two years. As a high-level administrator inside the organization, I witnessed a stunning degree of mismanagement and I was privy to everything; including the stuff that nobody was supposed to see.
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In a sense, this aspect of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth may be the most troubling one for some individuals, because a non-profit organization (501c3) isn't supposed to have secret agendas or spend its money in a manner that is not disclosed to anyone, including the very people who are donating to the "charity". Out of a sense of (perhaps misplaced) loyalty to people who were formerly our friends, we are avoiding reporting more about this topic.
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On February 25th, 2012, Richard Gage, AIA, and Kevin Ryan from AE911Truth's Board of Directors gave dual presentations at the annual Nation of Islam's "Savior's Day" convention. Kevin naturally pretended to be completely independent of A&E, as if he were not a member of its secretive Board of Directors, and instead he claimed to be representing "The Journal of 9/11 Studies". Oops, we outed somebody else.

Several long-standing members of AE911Truth left the organization when its Board decreed that AE911Truth would be publicly capitulating with the Nation of Islam. The management unashamedly discarded these members, including one of their most renowned experts, David Chandler, for the sake of prostituting the organization for Nation of Islam donations, which are extremely unlikely to ever materialize.
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AE911Truth's new partner, Nation of Islam, is an all-black, racist and anti-semetic organization that claims to be Islamic, but they warp the Koran to fit their own hate-inspired agenda. ...

The fact that AE911Truth is willing to associate with them, and to sacrifice what remains of its principles for the tiny chance of getting a little more cash is truly disturbing, and it should seal the organization's fate.
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AE911truth is strictly opposed to any alternate theory regarding what happened to the towers.

The topic of the pentagon is forbidden.

The group stalks Judy Wood online, so that they can mount a defense to any of her appearances or videos. Shutting up Judy Wood is an obsession of theirs.They also carefully censor their own videos online, to make sure that there are no negative comments about them, or any alternate theories.
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On a couple of occasions, We Are Change groups invited Richard to speak at their meetings, then asked him questions on topics that he refused to confront. Such groups were then placed on a list of locations that Richard would subsequently avoid.
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The organization resists all attempts to actually accomplish anything. It is as if they exist without any purpose, other than to be self-perpetuating. For instance, when it was suggested that they reach out to senators, that idea was shot down, and nothing was done. Similar attempts at outreach went in the same direction. Richard stated to us that all that really mattered was that everyone was happy, regardless of the dismal results of the organization. Of course, he neglected to mention this to his donors.
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The group refuses to state what it does with its funding, and fundraising appears to be its core operation.
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:jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp

FWIW, Chandler is still listed as a Supporter of AE911Truth. Can anyone verify that he's broken away from Gage's group?
 
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More evidence to support my assertion that the world would be better off without Richard Gage in it.

Hopefully we can heal the Mountain and get him on it, as that's the fate I'd like to see for Gage.
 
DaveThomasNMSR said:
Normally I wouldn't give a lot of credence to alt-med, pro-Truther sites, but this article by Sarah C. Corriher of "Health Wyze," if true, really blows the lid off of the infighting and acrimony within Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

While Corriher is pro-Truther, she is very much anti-Gage. I can't post the lengthy article in toto, so here are a few blockbuster snippets to whet your appetite:

:jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp

FWIW, Chandler is still listed as a Supporter of AE911Truth. Can anyone verify that he's broken away from Gage's group?
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I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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How can someone be off the mark by asking a question? :confused:
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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What a weak attack. You should be presenting evidence to support all your silly 911 truth claims of woo, you are stuck with super weak attacks.

You can't support Gage, as he travels on a budget of 500k/yr, while you get nothing for supporting lies from 911 and spreading false information about the fantasy of CD. Gage wins by default, he found a way to get money by fooling people who can't think for themselves, his followers who believe in CD and thermite based on faith.

You spread lies for free, Gage makes 500k/yr. Why can't you make money like Gage does, are your lies not as good.
 
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gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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He's not the one making the allegations. He qualifies the "blow the lid off" with the italicized, if true.
 
This part is self-evident.

The organization resists all attempts to actually accomplish anything. It is as if they exist without any purpose, other than to be self-perpetuating. For instance, when it was suggested that they reach out to senators, that idea was shot down, and nothing was done. Similar attempts at outreach went in the same direction. Richard stated to us that all that really mattered was that everyone was happy, regardless of the dismal results of the organization. Of course, he neglected to mention this to his donors.
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As for the author of the piece, she comes across as more than a little bit paranoid. Government infiltrators from Homeland Security on Gage's board? A guy dying from blood clots is a "suspicious" death?
 
kid meatball said:
He's not the one making the allegations. He qualifies the "blow the lid off" with the italicized, if true.
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Yeah, gerrycan specializes in putting words in others' mouths that they never said. He's the king of strawmen.
 
I had the experience of being a volunteer for AE911T and then rather quicklyu made a board member in late 2009. I was only a volunteer for a few months at most. Gage wanted me on his board because I was an senior NY architect.

I immediately ran into trouble. When I began as I volunteer I was trying to help Gage organize his group. It had none... no mission statement, no "business plans", no org chart and so on. It was very insular and Gage held all the power, controlled the funds with Tom Spellman... The whole thing from the inside was not what people on the outside thought/think is was/is. I got involved because I was genuinely interested in understand how the building came down.. and I thought architects and engineers might explain it.

I asked a lot of questions and pointed out some bad thinking in their bullet points. AE was not interested in explain the collapses... and not interested in being factually accurate. Most of the bullet points are incorrect or mean nothing and certainly not what they claim they do.

I was asked to sign a statement that I believed nano thermite was used to destroy the towers. I refused. I saw a lot of dirty laundry and was rather quickly ejected from the board and the group in a manner which was not consistent with their own bylaws... SO they held a secret board meeting which i was not at... brought in Kevin Ryan to pack the vote and at the next meeting first agenda item I was tossed out.

AE911T is a really a scam... a cult and Gage has himself a new career, pays himself way more than he could make or did make in the private sector. They do no research.. they exist to to exist and make money to fund Gage.

I don't understand how they've managed to survive as long as they have maintaining the apparently credibility that they do without being "demolished" for the scammery. I was accused of being a spy, a CIA plant.. a cognitive infiltrator and more. What a pathetic operation.

I left them, did my own research and satisfied my curiosity about how those buildings collapsed. The actual details of the mechanism(s) will likely remain unknown with certainty because of the lack of data. But it's clear that those fire, mech damage and those designs meant they were doomed. The details are naval gazing and a waste of time as far as I am concerned. All models and theories are built on too m ay assumptions and too little data... so the debate may never end.

Did NIST make mistakes? Sure they did. Does it matter? Probably not because the fact remains that 19 nuts flew planes into those towers and fire and mech damage and those rather unusual designs were not able to resist. Probably most ardent supporters and leaders believe their own prattle or are so invested in it that they can't back down. A few realize the truthers have nothing and just go away and get on with their lives. And a few remain to debate the fanatics.

Not much will change. Gage needs to be exposed for what a faker he is.

And this suits Gage and the few who are milking this for ego and cash. Of course there are people who are simply not trusting the gov and so they will go with those who claim the gov pulled one over on them. Most of these people are not technically competent to know the physics or the engineering issues on even a basic level. They are easily swayed by Gage's marketing and PR. And this is no different from the old snake oil salesmen selling nothing.

I believe they've cooked their books, likely violated financial laws/ tax reporting and so forth... but they are so insignificant no one wants to waste the resources to shut them down... and ironically it would reinforce the paranoia of the truthers. Judy Wood is clearly a loose canon and all sorts of nut surface with bizarre theories which truthers seem to think of as the next best thing to sliced bread.
 
one of their most renowned experts, David Chandler,
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911 truth followers attacking 911 truth followers and frauds, and they think a 911 truth nut is an expert.

That is shaky
 
JSanderO said:
I had the experience of being a volunteer for AE911T and then rather quicklyu made a board member in late 2009. I was only a volunteer for a few months at most. Gage wanted me on his board because I was an senior NY architect.

I immediately ran into trouble. When I began as I volunteer I was trying to help Gage organize his group. It had none... no mission statement, no "business plans", no org chart and so on. It was very insular and Gage held all the power, controlled the funds with Tom Spellman... The whole thing from the inside was not what people on the outside thought/think is was/is. I got involved because I was genuinely interested in understand how the building came down.. and I thought architects and engineers might explain it.

I asked a lot of questions and pointed out some bad thinking in their bullet points. AE was not interested in explain the collapses... and not interested in being factually accurate. Most of the bullet points are incorrect or mean nothing and certainly not what they claim they do.

I was asked to sign a statement that I believed nano thermite was used to destroy the towers. I refused. I saw a lot of dirty laundry and was rather quickly ejected from the board and the group in a manner which was not consistent with their own bylaws... SO they held a secret board meeting which i was not at... brought in Kevin Ryan to pack the vote and at the next meeting first agenda item I was tossed out.

AE911T is a really a scam... a cult and Gage has himself a new career, pays himself way more than he could make or did make in the private sector. They do no research.. they exist to to exist and make money to fund Gage.

I don't understand how they've managed to survive as long as they have maintaining the apparently credibility that they do without being "demolished" for the scammery. I was accused of being a spy, a CIA plant.. a cognitive infiltrator and more. What a pathetic operation.

I left them, did my own research and satisfied my curiosity about how those buildings collapsed. The actual details of the mechanism(s) will likely remain unknown with certainty because of the lack of data. But it's clear that those fire, mech damage and those designs meant they were doomed. The details are naval gazing and a waste of time as far as I am concerned. All models and theories are built on too m ay assumptions and too little data... so the debate may never end.

Did NIST make mistakes? Sure they did. Does it matter? Probably not because the fact remains that 19 nuts flew planes into those towers and fire and mech damage and those rather unusual designs were not able to resist. Probably most ardent supporters and leaders believe their own prattle or are so invested in it that they can't back down. A few realize the truthers have nothing and just go away and get on with their lives. And a few remain to debate the fanatics.

Not much will change. Gage needs to be exposed for what a faker he is.

And this suits Gage and the few who are milking this for ego and cash. Of course there are people who are simply not trusting the gov and so they will go with those who claim the gov pulled one over on them. Most of these people are not technically competent to know the physics or the engineering issues on even a basic level. They are easily swayed by Gage's marketing and PR. And this is no different from the old snake oil salesmen selling nothing.

I believe they've cooked their books, likely violated financial laws/ tax reporting and so forth... but they are so insignificant no one wants to waste the resources to shut them down... and ironically it would reinforce the paranoia of the truthers. Judy Wood is clearly a loose canon and all sorts of nut surface with bizarre theories which truthers seem to think of as the next best thing to sliced bread.
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Well said - again - Sander. And a valuable contribution to this thread.
 
Sorry about the typos.... did not proof before pressing send... You get the points though.
 
Looks to me like SOP for Konspiracy Kults, all turning on each other in fits of paranoia. The Obama Birthers have come to an ignominious end with one of their "stars" accusing other birthers of being part of the "forgery team". The Sandy Hook Truthers are turning on each other, too. And of course the 9-11 Truthers have had many splits in the past, going back to the Fetzer-Jones split of 2005.
 
I'm more than happy for Gage etc to continue ripping off their supporters. Might teach them a lesson.
 
FenerFan said:
I agree. Anyone who is stupid enough to give any money to an obvious kook like Gage deserves to be ripped off.
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I don't think, Dicky Gage is a kook. Nor are Circus side show operators or any common magician. They are quite calculated......taking money from those willing to hand over their money to be deceived as well as taking advantage of the really gullible that truly believe their fraud.....like the few troofer posters left here. :rolleyes:
 
FenerFan said:
I agree. Anyone who is stupid enough to give any money to an obvious kook like Gage deserves to be ripped off.
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In general I condone caveat emptor. But as has been said, Gage can "easily sway" people with his marketing and PR. When that is coupled with pseudo-engineering that makes people feel smart for believing it, you have a machine that's not readily discerned as kookery. The marketplace of ideas still needs some consumer advocates to help expose deliberate deception and bad thinking.
 
JayUtah said:
In general I condone caveat emptor. But as has been said, Gage can "easily sway" people with his marketing and PR. When that is coupled with pseudo-engineering that makes people feel smart for believing it, you have a machine that's not readily discerned as kookery. The marketplace of ideas still needs some consumer advocates to help expose deliberate deception and bad thinking.
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All of Tony Szamboti's "big claims" rely on pseudo engineering. I first identified the trick back in 2007 wih this bit of a post:
Me said:
The paper referenced as Engineering Reality by Tony Szamboti is typical of many which look impressive in detail to the non-engineer. The complex calculations may even be correct but the base premises are faulty and the resulting conclusions can readily be demonstrated to be totally wrong.
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Later "big claims" - "Missing Jolt"; the multiple claims based on axial impact of columns and the WTC 7 Girder walkoff nonsense currently replaying for its third season all start from totally or partially false premises. And they are good enough to convince quite a few engineers so what hope has the lay-person?
 
Clearly the average person... even college educated does not have the background to evaluate the claims of Gage et al. On the face they give the appearance of rigorous science or engineering. One gives those who make such claims a presumption of honesty and integrity. While we know there are fakes and charlatans out there (such as fake doctors) we assume MOST are straight shooters. This presumption gives Gage et al a leg up with the uninformed. And so these people will rather easily be swayed by slick PR... "credentials" and so forth. So when they hear or read that there was molten steel.. they accept this as fact... or steel was ejected to 600'. No fact checking... no independent verification of these statements. With that out of the way... they simple raise all sorts of BS claims, point to observed phenomena that they jawbone it to be a doubtful process related to a non CD or natural collapse... such as the amount of dust, or the time or form of the collapses and so forth. Once a person accepts the credentials of a person, they then easily accept whatever they say/write about the event. It is at this point that these people refuse to examine any other explanations... especially the "lying" US government and their agents.

Lots of infighting about how to run (and control) the truth operations and little work in revealing what actually occurred.
 
JSanderO said:
Clearly the average person... even college educated does not have the background to evaluate the claims of Gage et al. ...
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Only a grade school education is need to see Gage is full of woo, and avoid joining his delusional inside job nonsense. You might want to get a refund on your college education.


Good OP, finding extra paranoid conspiracy theorists attacking fellow paranoid conspiracy theorists. Priceless.
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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:D :D :D

Not the only thing they've run out of. And quite some time ago. :D
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
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This argument seems to say you've drawn a conclusion and declared a belief, but you admit you have no factual basis or knowledge to support it. Is there any rationale for your belief beyond bald-faced denial?
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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ergo said:
:D :D :D

Not the only thing they've run out of. And quite some time ago. :D
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Despite neither of you being spokespersons for AE911T, the implication is that you strongly disagree with the sentiments quoted in the OP.

Perhaps your personal opinions on the error in those quotes in post#1 would be in order then.
OR
Perhaps JayUtah is correct , that you base your conclusions on simple denial.
 
JSanderO said:
I don't understand how they've managed to survive as long as they have maintaining the apparently credibility that they do without being "demolished" for the scammery.
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Well, really it all comes down to this:



JayUtah said:
In general I condone caveat emptor. But as has been said, Gage can "easily sway" people with his marketing and PR. When that is coupled with pseudo-engineering that makes people feel smart for believing it, you have a machine that's not readily discerned as kookery. The marketplace of ideas still needs some consumer advocates to help expose deliberate deception and bad thinking.
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A&E911 have a very useful niche in the CT ecology; they provide a fig leaf of scientific and engineering legitimacy to all the other 9/11 ******** out there. As such, other 9/11 promoters will not go after them for being scam artists, since their scam supports every other scam out there.

And of course, if the CT believers were inclined to listen to people like us here at the JREFF, they wouldn't be CT believers in the first place.

And I'm sure Gage knows all this quite well, and plays his lucrative role with total self awareness. Why else would he be so resistant to making any positive statements about what he thinks happened on 9/11? It's because he knows that that could only serve to alienate one or more major factions of 9/11 CTers, which is simply not in his own best interest. As long as he can keep the JAQing off going, he's on the gravy train.
 
ergo said:
:D :D :D

Not the only thing they've run out of. And quite some time ago. :D
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Ergo, same question to you: is there any fact behind your denial, if in fact you deny the accusations? You have here two statements from people who have credible claims to being privy to the inner workings of AE911T, and you offer nothing in response except puerile jibes.
 
Why haven't people in the know who are now not a part of that sham report them to the authorities? You can't be claiming 503(c) like that if you're not a charitable organization.

Gage needs to be incarcerated.
 
DaveThomasNMSR said:
FWIW, Chandler is still listed as a Supporter of AE911Truth. Can anyone verify that he's broken away from Gage's group?
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I don't know about Chandler, but here's another 9-11 Troofer who was disgusted at Gage's association with the Nation of Islam:

In fact, it is because of the decision to go to this event that I quit as a volunteer team leader after 2.5 years of working at ae911truth. I was not the only one to leave because of this either, however I will not say who else left - that is for themselves to say.
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IIRC, NorCalTruth is the nom de plume of Brian Romanoff, who financed the 9-11 Troof comic book a few years back.
 
beachnut said:
What a weak attack. You should be presenting evidence to support all your silly 911 truth claims of woo, you are stuck with super weak attacks.

You can't support Gage, as he travels on a budget of 500k/yr, while you get nothing for supporting lies from 911 and spreading false information about the fantasy of CD. Gage wins by default, he found a way to get money by fooling people who can't think for themselves, his followers who believe in CD and thermite based on faith.

You spread lies for free, Gage makes 500k/yr. Why can't you make money like Gage does, are your lies not as good.
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Evidently not.
But things like Gage need a great unwashed of believers, gullible and unpaid
 
ozeco41 said:
You are safe - provided only those of us who are without sins of typing are the ones to throw the first stones. (I think I have plagiarised that theme from somewhere. :blush:)
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Ever notice how those who get all het up about another posters spelling generally have one or more in their reply..... ?
 
Listened to the MP3 at that site; it is a treasure trove of wack. The male host (Tom) claims that Gage asks for donations and within a couple of days, half a million dollars comes in. Of course this is a gross exaggeration; their total revenue didn't exceed $500,000 in either 2010 or 2011.

But based on that false premise, Tom leaps to the conclusion that Gage's outfit is a spook (CIA) operation. See, having the database of petition signers lets the spooks know whom they have to keep an eye on.

Ther's only about 10-15 minutes on AE 9-11T; after that they move on to their zany alternative medicine stuff.
 
Ya Health Wyze is an interesting little corner of the alterna-world - seem to have some incisive criticism of fellow travellers (Mike Adams has been a target worth their ire as well) but yet are also propagators of woo...

If we accept there is a spectrum of woo then maybe these guys are just the closest to us on the other side there - possessing some but not enough critical thinking to be completely free of woo..;) That said I think when used in debates with supporters of Mike Adams or Richard Gage this source may have more potential to pass the filter of a True Believer than say, Popular Mechanics, SBM or NIST.
 
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