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5th August 2015, 11:24 AM | #3921 |
Muse
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It is important to understand how the different types of evidence corroborate each other.
The absence of startle reactions to the early shots, certainly proves that those shots were fired from a much weaker weapon than the final ones. But that fact is further corroborated by the large majority of witnesses. The Warren Commission concluded: ..a substantial majority of the witnesses stated that the shots were not evenly spaced. Most witnesses recalled that the second and third shots were bunched together. That's a double edged sword. It not only confirms that they heard the shots at 285 and 313, but it proves that only one of the early shots was loud enough to even be audible. Obviously, those shots did not come from a high powered rifle - Oswald's or anyone else's. |
5th August 2015, 11:27 AM | #3922 |
Fiend God
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And deny that anyone has an explanation for what they perceive are grave problems with the "official" theory, which turn out to be nothing.
Again I offer the moon hoax nonsense as an example: when your main line of argument comes from the fact that you don't know about film exposure, no one is going to take you seriously. |
5th August 2015, 11:27 AM | #3923 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Post 4010, I love this one:
"Why should I? Any idiot can fire a rifle and hit his target in a such a small area as Dealey Plaza. It is ludicrous to think that Marcello would have backed off on his pledge to kill JFK, because one or more rifles were required." I guess that when you asserted in earlier posts that "no one" could duplicate LHO's shots and I reminded you that Howard Donahue had done so, you ran right into the arms of the many-headed shooter fantasy where you remain firmly rooted today. Today, any old shooter could have done the deed. What an odd way to support a theory. |
5th August 2015, 11:33 AM | #3924 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Post 4013:
So, it is not surprising that the people closest to the President were startled by the unsuppressed, high powered rifle shots at the end of the attack. Your problem here is that the rounds impacted before the sound of the muzzle blast reached the impact area. No matter how you want to spin this, the round fired was supersonic. |
5th August 2015, 11:53 AM | #3925 |
Muse
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Of course it was. But the shock wave was the shrillest and most startling component of the noise. It was measured at 130 decibels at a point 10 feet from the path of the bullet, from Oswald's rifle.
Barger, the shock wave was measured by a microphone 10 feet from the trajectory of the bullet and the muzzle blast was measured by the same microphone which was at the same time 30 feet from the muzzle... The shockwave has an intensity of 130 decibels. The shock wave of other high powered rifles was more than twice as loud as that. Watch Kellerman react to the 313 shot. He begins to drop his head at 315, 1/9th of a second later. The muzzle blast had not yet arrived then. He was reacting to the shock wave. Bill Greer further confirmed that when he said he felt the "concussion" of the second shot he heard, which was almost simultaneous with the third. That "concussion" could only have been the shock wave of the passing bullet. Dr. Alvarez was right. He was startled and in his panic, accidentally lifted his foot from the gas. That's why he spun around at such enormous speed, simultaneous with the reactions of the others. |
5th August 2015, 12:59 PM | #3926 |
Philosopher
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The Mafia is a business. Kennedy and his family were an asset to the mafia because of their father's past, and the questionable 1960 Illinois election results, etc. Plus, JFK was already ripe for blackmail. Why kill the most powerful man in the world when he can be so useful to you? Right up until the murder, the CIA was working with the Mafia to take out Castro. This was done with the blessings of the Attorney General, RFK. Throw in the fact that JFK was not likely to get a second term and you have no motive for the mafia to conduct a hit.
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Marcello wasn't a stupid man.
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First, it is silly to pretend that the large majority of witnesses, including the nonvictims in the limo, all suffered from the same delusion.
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You really have nothing. |
5th August 2015, 01:06 PM | #3927 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Post 4028:
The shock wave of other high powered rifles was more than twice as loud as that. Watch Kellerman react to the 313 shot. He begins to drop his head at 315, 1/9th of a second later. The muzzle blast had not yet arrived then. He was reacting to the shock wave. Having had a few rw experiences of this type under my belt, I'd like to know how exactly you came to the conclusion that "the shock wave" caused the automatic "startle response" you assign to Kellerman. Most untrained (and inexperienced but trained) individuals don't react at all to the sound of a supersonic projectile. Back in the 70's - 80's there was a SOT that came up with the best sales demonstration technique ever when he brought folks on a tour of the French Quarter and a certain hotel nearby where he fired live rounds into safe backstops w/ his suppressor designs while the good citizens of the Quarter and the tourists went about their business blissfully unaware of the supersonic/subsonic projectiles that were being fired in close proximity. |
5th August 2015, 01:33 PM | #3928 |
Muse
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I came to that conclusion, based on the fact that the shock wave from Oswald's rifle generated a sound level that was 16 times louder than 90db, the level at which involuntary startle reactions will be provoked, and that other high powered rifles were up to 32 times greater.
He and the others in the limo HAD to have been startled by any high powered rifle shots then, and anyone can see that they were. http://jfkhistory.com/duckstwice.gif
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5th August 2015, 02:28 PM | #3929 |
Nitpicking dilettante
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th August 2015, 02:32 PM | #3930 |
Muse
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Did you figure out why no one reacted to the early shots, the way they did to the ones at the end?
Why are you dodging the question? The reactions following 285 and 313 were vastly different than the ones following 160 and 223. Why don't we see people ducking and spinning around and shielding their ears in reaction to the early shots? Those shots should have been the loudest and most startling, since the limo was much closer to the alleged sniper's nest then. Why didn't they startle anyone? And why is it that most witnesses only heard one of those early shots? The WC correctly concluded that "most" relevant witnesses said they only heard one shot prior to the very end of the attack. How could they have overlooked a 130 decibel, high powered, rifle shot?
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Never mind the fact that Sam Giancana was murdered exactly 5 days before he was supposed to testify about the mob's connections to the CIA, or that Johnny Roselli's dismembered body was found floating in an oil drum, shortly after telling the Washington Post that the mob ordered Ruby to kill Oswald. Or the fact that within 24 hours after HSCA investigators began to call around, looking for Charles Nicoletti, the man was murdered. Or the fact that David Ferrie, who Marcello described as his accomplice, was found dead, within a couple days after it came out in the papers that he was being investigated by Garrison. Or the fact, that Jim Braden, who is in arguably, the best sniper position in Dealey Plaza that day, was rubbing elbows with Jack Ruby the night before, at the Cabana hotel, the same place where Ruby was meeting with Marcello lieutenant, Joe Campisi, who also just happened to be Ruby's first visitor after he shot Oswald. Gosh, how could anyone be suspicious about those little details
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And they carried out that agenda, over and over and over again - when they did everything possible to coverup the fact that Jack Ruby lied, when he was asked during his polygraph test, if he had been involved in the assassination. http://jfkhistory.com/Polygraph/polygraph.html They even went so far as to falsify evidence. This article about CE399 presents a mountain of evidence which proves that. http://jfkhistory.com/bell/bellarticle/BellArticle.html As long as Hoover was in charge of the investigation, Marcello had no worries at all, that he would be caught.
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Any idiot can fire a rifle and hit his target in a such a small area as Dealey Plaza. It is ludicrous to think that Marcello would have backed off on his pledge to kill JFK, because one or more rifles were required.
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Of course, you might be partially right. Maybe they did use people who were not expert riflemen and they thought they needed 2 or 3 people to be sure they got him - especially since some of the shots were obviously fired from suppressed weapons, which are not always accurate. First, it is silly to pretend that the large majority of witnesses, including the nonvictims in the limo, all suffered from the same delusion.
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The second one didn't sound any different much than the first one but I kind of got, by turning around, I don't know whether I got a little concussion of it, maybe when it hit something or not, I may have gotten a little concussion that made me think there was something different to it. And here's another clue for you. He wasn't turned around at 150-160 or 223, http://jfkhistory.com/greer.gif His face is not always clear, but keep an eye on his black tie. Now look at him at 285. http://jfkhistory.com/285.jpg
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But that isn't what happened, is it? Virtually NO ONE heard that shot - not John Connally, not his wife, not Mrs. Kennedy, not Kellerman and not Greer. Would you like to argue that there really was, only one early shot? |
5th August 2015, 02:36 PM | #3931 |
Muse
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Do you understand what "involuntary" means?
It means that those people had no choice. They had to react, and they obviously did. Take a look at the reactions of Roy Kellerman and tell me with a straight face, that he was not startled then. http://www.jfkhistory.com/kellerman2.gif You can also see him reacting here http://jfkhistory.com/royducks.gif |
5th August 2015, 03:26 PM | #3932 |
Nitpicking dilettante
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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6th August 2015, 12:02 AM | #3933 |
Nitpicking dilettante
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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6th August 2015, 03:50 AM | #3934 | ||
Biomechanoid
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-Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Munroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm |
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14th August 2015, 08:04 AM | #3935 |
Muse
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This presentation discusses the shooting from start to finish. It explains much more than just my opinions. It presents the evidence which proves them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvqCtaBkyyE |
15th August 2015, 07:05 AM | #3936 |
Hostile Nanobacon
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These debunk conspiracy theories which proves yours wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7TbB4uxJEk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufFa5xBYPd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeXMoWmu0TU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBfPKIN__SI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxmsyWSQj0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYiyKtx9Y68 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM I can especially recommend the ABC presentation but they all do a good job. I have many more links to YouTube videos if you'd like. |
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