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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Tony Abbott

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Old 4th July 2016, 12:47 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you are going to plagiarize my post then you might as well go all the way and include the information that 11 seats are still to be decided.

ETA Assuming that the coalition doesn't get more than 28 seats, they will need an extra 11 votes in the Senate to get a bill passed. (There are 76 Senators in total).
My apologies for failing to see your post. At least we agree on the numbers.

It does appear that Turnbull's gamble has backfired badly on him. He should have known he would not have gained a majority in the Senate. And it would have been very hard for him to have increased his majority in the lower house. I think his future is very unsecure. If his party does not retain government he should resign.
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Old 4th July 2016, 03:33 AM   #362
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Looks like my crystal ball was right.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, my crystal ball is predicting a big win for the Greens/Independents/Xenophones, just because everyone is so bloody sick and tired of all the crap coming from the two major parties.
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Old 4th July 2016, 04:07 AM   #363
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I have my doubts about the intellect of the LNP. Why did they not know that calling a D.D. would only require half the quota of a normal election to get elected to the Senate?
And that this would encourage the election of more indis. and minor parties. Getting a more "Feral" Senate.
Are they fit to govern this country?
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Old 4th July 2016, 04:15 AM   #364
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Well, no, obviously, but that doesn't mean that they're idiots. Turnbull is not stupid.

I assume that they were drawing conclusions from faulty premises. Someone in the Liberal Party backroom - someone with influence - has convinced the party frontrunners that things are a certain way, which is not the way things really are.

It's so reminiscent of the reality-disconnect they displayed through the Abbott years that I'm tempted to say that Credlin is back. But I don't think it's her. I think it's someone who thinks like her.

Remember, Abbott still thinks he's got a chance. And there are a bunch of people in the party who also think he's got a chance.
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Old 4th July 2016, 05:54 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Turnbull is not stupid.
How can you say that? Turnbull squandered away all the good will he had with the voters then called a double dissolution. That is the very definition of stupid.
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Old 4th July 2016, 06:03 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
How can you say that? Turnbull squandered away all the good will he had with the voters then called a double dissolution. That is the very definition of stupid.
His afvisors told him his popularity would carry all. They are the neon idiots. As is Turnbull of course.
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Old 4th July 2016, 07:25 AM   #367
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Is it weird that I can't wait for counting to start again tomorrow?
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Old 4th July 2016, 03:02 PM   #368
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I congratulate Getup! who are being blamed by the Liberals, for the loss of several right wing Liberal members. I think this is the future of influence. Your supporters and opponents on Facebook will be critical in future elections.
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Old 4th July 2016, 03:30 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
His afvisors told him his popularity would carry all.
And no doubt, Kevin Rudd's advisors told him that he was a warm compassionate human being. The buck doesn't stop with the advisors.

Knock him all you want but at least John Howard knew how to read an electoral mood. He even managed to get a GST implemented by sacrificing just enough seats to still win government.

Turnbull was blinded by his own ego. He sacrificed a large number of seats for no purpose whatsoever.
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Old 4th July 2016, 06:07 PM   #370
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Hapless bunch of bedwetters.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...04-gpyi4q.html

Don't hold back Peta.
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Old 4th July 2016, 09:22 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
And no doubt, Kevin Rudd's advisors told him that he was a warm compassionate human being. The buck doesn't stop with the advisors.

Knock him all you want but at least John Howard knew how to read an electoral mood. He even managed to get a GST implemented by sacrificing just enough seats to still win government.

Turnbull was blinded by his own ego. He sacrificed a large number of seats for no purpose whatsoever.
I can't recall knocking him. And you are spot on.
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Old 5th July 2016, 01:52 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
How can you say that? Turnbull squandered away all the good will he had with the voters then called a double dissolution. That is the very definition of stupid.
No it's not.

The definition of "stupid" is "slow to learn or understand" or "lacking in intelligence". Turnbull is neither of those things. You can't be a politician if you're stupid. It's just impossible.

Turnbull is badly informed, disconnected from reality, and operates from incorrect assumptions about the Australian people, but one thing he is absolutely not is stupid.
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Old 5th July 2016, 02:50 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No it's not.

The definition of "stupid" is "slow to learn or understand" or "lacking in intelligence". Turnbull is neither of those things. You can't be a politician if you're stupid. It's just impossible.

Turnbull is badly informed, disconnected from reality, and operates from incorrect assumptions about the Australian people, but one thing he is absolutely not is stupid.
Yes I agree. Not stupid. But not wise.
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Old 5th July 2016, 03:09 AM   #374
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I'm swamped by Asians up here. Fourth and fifth generation Chinese everywhere. Indonesians, Timorese, Phillipinos and more recently Indians and Bangladeshis. A bloke can't find a meat pie or chiko roll for all the laksas, curries and satees everywhere.

Too little too late, Pauline.
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Old 5th July 2016, 03:19 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I'm swamped by Asians up here. Fourth and fifth generation Chinese everywhere. Indonesians, Timorese, Phillipinos and more recently Indians and Bangladeshis. A bloke can't find a meat pie or chiko roll for all the laksas, curries and satees everywhere.

Too little too late, Pauline.
Just suck down a few Darwin stubbies sidey. You'll feel better in no time.....
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Old 5th July 2016, 06:16 AM   #376
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I have now heard on the giggle box a big number of Conservative politicians rationalising their poor showing in the elections. They all, baring no one blame Labor's medicare scare campaign.
I think this campaign had a slight effect, but the massive elephant in the room that the conservatives are ignoring are the hard right. Turnbull is running with the hard right policies. You can't blame the medicare scare on Turnbulls tumbledown the polls from unbeatable in September to 50/50 in July.
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Old 5th July 2016, 10:14 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I'm swamped by Asians up here. Fourth and fifth generation Chinese everywhere. Indonesians, Timorese, Phillipinos and more recently Indians and Bangladeshis. A bloke can't find a meat pie or chiko roll for all the laksas, curries and satees everywhere.

Too little too late, Pauline.
One also wonders why anyone would want a chicko roll when Laksas and Curries are available...
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Old 5th July 2016, 10:17 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Just suck down a few Darwin stubbies sidey. You'll feel better in no time.....
Sadly, it's no longer being brewed except for special occasions.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/business/ca...d673f94c0c517e

A pity. The bottle was fun if nothing else.
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Old 5th July 2016, 04:07 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You can't be a politician if you're stupid. It's just impossible
Pauline Hanson.
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Old 5th July 2016, 05:02 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I can't recall knocking him. And you are spot on.
I didn't mean to imply that you personally were a Howard knocker (although, since he is yesterday's news, the opportunities to knock him don't come very often ) just that there was a lot to knock him over.
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Old 5th July 2016, 09:05 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No it's not.

The definition of "stupid" is "slow to learn or understand" or "lacking in intelligence". Turnbull is neither of those things. You can't be a politician if you're stupid. It's just impossible.

Turnbull is badly informed, disconnected from reality, and operates from incorrect assumptions about the Australian people, but one thing he is absolutely not is stupid.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Pauline Hanson.
The only abilities you need to be a good politician are
1. Be charismatic.
2. Ability to know what people want to hear and then say it.

A deep understanding of issues are not important. Nor is the ability to learn, except to be able to learn the above abilities. There have been many popular politicians whose stated policies are terrible. Pauline Hanson, as previously mentioned, is one. Donald Trump is another good extreme example. John Howard took over many of Pauline's racist policies. It kept him as PM. "Turn back the boats" policy is a descendant of those policies.
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Old 5th July 2016, 11:52 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Pauline Hanson.
I see your Pauline Hanson and raise you a Jackie Lambie.
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Old 6th July 2016, 02:08 AM   #383
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An inability to grasp issues does not make a person stupid. Being caught in a bubble of reality that is out of phase with the rest of the country does not make a person stupid. Being unwise, or badly advised, does not make a person stupid.

I'm kind of tired of people trotting out the word "stupid" to describe people who are clearly not unintelligent. You're using the word as a generic contextless, meaningless, insult. You might as well be calling people fargleblarg. As it is you're stripping a word of every bit of meaning it still has left.

Okay, rant over. Moving on.
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Old 6th July 2016, 02:18 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
An inability to grasp issues does not make a person stupid. Being caught in a bubble of reality that is out of phase with the rest of the country does not make a person stupid. Being unwise, or badly advised, does not make a person stupid.

I'm kind of tired of people trotting out the word "stupid" to describe people who are clearly not unintelligent. You're using the word as a generic contextless, meaningless, insult. You might as well be calling people fargleblarg. As it is you're stripping a word of every bit of meaning it still has left.

Okay, rant over. Moving on.
Well I agree with that. But are you saying that Lambie and Hanson are not stupid? This is where I disagree. I judge people on their statements and behaviour. I'm comfortable with my assessment.
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Old 6th July 2016, 02:43 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well I agree with that. But are you saying that Lambie and Hanson are not stupid? This is where I disagree. I judge people on their statements and behaviour. I'm comfortable with my assessment.
Like I said, moving on.
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Old 6th July 2016, 06:08 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Like I said, moving on.
It's hard to move on when you have painted yourself into a corner.
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Old 6th July 2016, 07:20 PM   #387
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I'm not entirely sure that I'm with Arthwollipot on this one.

While Malcolm Turnbull could not be described as "stupid" least wise, not as how I read the definition/s...

Jacquie Lambie and Pauline Hanson... not so sure.

I've often suspected that "rat cunning" is the defining characteristic of most politicians. Sufficient quantities of this characteristic appear to overwhelm any lack of intelligence or common sense.

One example of this trait may indeed be "telling people what they want to hear"

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Old 7th July 2016, 03:48 AM   #388
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*sigh* No, I don't think that Lambie and Hanson are stupid. There are plenty of adjectives that I would use to describe them, but that's not one of them.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:02 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
*sigh* No, I don't think that Lambie and Hanson are stupid. There are plenty of adjectives that I would use to describe them, but that's not one of them.
Why don't you be honest and admit that you weren't thinking of Hanson/Lambie when you claimed that it is impossible for a politician to be stupid?

I don't know much about Lambie but Pauline Hanson is just a racist who won some admiration for refusing to toe the party line in her maiden speech in parliament. However, everything she has said and done since then has truly earned her the adjective, "stupid".
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:10 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why don't you be honest and admit that you weren't thinking of Hanson/Lambie when you claimed that it is impossible for a politician to be stupid?
Because that isn't true. If you have some insight into what I think that I don't have, well, there's a guy I know with a million dollars...

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I don't know much about Lambie but Pauline Hanson is just a racist who won some admiration for refusing to toe the party line in her maiden speech in parliament. However, everything she has said and done since then has truly earned her the adjective, "stupid".
As ought to be obvious by now, I disagree. No reasonable definition of the word would be suitable, apart from, as I mentioned earlier, defining the word as a generic contextless and meaningless insult, which I do not believe to be appropriate.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:12 AM   #391
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Meanwhile, Katter the loon has committed to the Coalition. They are collecting a strong Tea Partyesque rump. Katter who said something like he would walk backwards to Canberra if there was a gay person in his electorate. Big win Turnbull.

I still predict a hung parliament. Ungovernable, unstable and unlikely to survive. Even if Turnbull scrapes over the line, the Senate will pass nothing of substance. An election within a year.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:24 AM   #392
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Anyone know much about this new conservative group Cory Bernardi is starting up? Isn't that going to be ending up like our Tea Party?
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:36 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Anyone know much about this new conservative group Cory Bernardi is starting up? Isn't that going to be ending up like our Tea Party?
Uncertain. I can't see how it can survive within the Coalition, and I don't see how it can survive without.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:55 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
*sigh* No, I don't think that Lambie and Hanson are stupid. There are plenty of adjectives that I would use to describe them, but that's not one of them.
Ignorant is apt. Ignorant and proud of it too.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:28 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Because that isn't true. If you have some insight into what I think that I don't have, well, there's a guy I know with a million dollars...
So you would have us believe that you considered the merits of Hanson and Lambie before concluding that it was impossible for a politician to be stupid.

I'll tell you what. I'll trade my guy with a million dollars for your guy.
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Old 7th July 2016, 02:39 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Anyone know much about this new conservative group Cory Bernardi is starting up? Isn't that going to be ending up like our Tea Party?
I wonder if it would be any better than his previous attempt? He tried in 2010. Cannot find any trace of it. Link below showing he tried.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1225938379452
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Old 7th July 2016, 06:58 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So you would have us believe that you considered the merits of Hanson and Lambie before concluding that it was impossible for a politician to be stupid.
Are you entirely serious with your line of argumentation here? Because you're not doing yourself any favours going along this track.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:34 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Meanwhile, Katter the loon has committed to the Coalition. They are collecting a strong Tea Partyesque rump. Katter who said something like he would walk backwards to Canberra if there was a gay person in his electorate. Big win Turnbull.

I still predict a hung parliament. Ungovernable, unstable and unlikely to survive. Even if Turnbull scrapes over the line, the Senate will pass nothing of substance. An election within a year.
He has committed to passing supply and siding with them in a no confidence motion. But as he said he is reluctant to and will not tolerate any union bashing. Wilkie and McGowan have also said they will support with confidence and supply.
I think the Coalition will fall over the line. There are six in doubt and Coalition on 73 seats. They should definitely win Forde and the way the postals are going should possibly pick up 2 or 3 more.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:41 PM   #399
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Quote:
ABC election analyst Antony Green says there is no doubt Malcolm Turnbull will be returned as Prime Minister, and the Coalition could secure 77 seats and win majority government.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-0...-as-pm/7580646

In other news, this thread will live another three years, either that or until a Liberal MP in a marginal seat can no longer be a MP.
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Old 8th July 2016, 08:11 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Are you entirely serious with your line of argumentation here? Because you're not doing yourself any favours going along this track.
I'll admit that part of it is the fun of watching yourself contradict yourself.

For the most part, the fact remains that few MPs have what it takes to be a minister. That is why cabinet reshuffles can be so difficult. There is no new talent that can be drafted. The rest are just party hacks and yes men who serve only as a vote during a parliamentary division.
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