Hillary Clinton is Done: part 2

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Travis

Misanthrope of the Mountains
Travis
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Trakar said:
Can't see a word I disagree with.

I do not support Sanders because I think he is an amazingly special individual, I support Sanders' Policies and trust that he would willingly and eagerly fight to realize these policies and even if he couldn't get them passed, he wouldn't trade them away for opposing compromises that were worse than doing nothing.

As for Hillary, I don't think she's ever seen a conservative economic plan or a neoconservative foreign policy where she could not find a lot to like.
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I have yet to see Hillary propose to end all federal support for public transportation projects.

I have yet to see Hillary propose defunding all federal research into climate change.

I have yet to see Hillary propose to dissolve the FDA.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will dissolve the EPA.

I have yet to see Hillary propose ending fiat money.

I have yet to see Hillary propose a flat tax.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will do away with the IRS.

I have yet to see Hillary support allowing oil drilling in federal wildlife sanctuaries.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will sell off national parks to the highest bidder.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will end all subsidies to new green energy programs.

Actually, it would be easier if you would just list what conservative economic policies you think she does support. Then it might be instructive to weigh them against the almost uncountable ones she demonstrably does not support.

Cleon said:
Out of curiosity, when did you start becoming concerned about GS' money in politics?
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I find it so weird that any association with Goldman Sachs is so poisonous. It's a huge company that does many things.

To hear the way some people talk about it you would think every dollar they spend on candidates comes with a picture attached of a baby sloth they intend to kill for the evulz.

dudalb said:
Elf Grinder got the hammer dropped on him by the mods about three months ago.
TO be fair, most of the Anti Hilary voices we have been hearing from lately have been those on the Left who think Hilary is way too moderate....and odd that they end up often sounding like the right wing Hilary haters.
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It's very weird. I'm a Bernie supporter but I also like Hillary and just can't wrap my head around this bizarre venom some have for her.

Continuation of this thread.
Posted By: zooterkin
 
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Travis said:
I have yet to see Hillary propose to end all federal support for public transportation projects.

I have yet to see Hillary propose defunding all federal research into climate change.

I have yet to see Hillary propose to dissolve the FDA.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will dissolve the EPA.

I have yet to see Hillary propose ending fiat money.

I have yet to see Hillary propose a flat tax.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will do away with the IRS.

I have yet to see Hillary support allowing oil drilling in federal wildlife sanctuaries.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will sell off national parks to the highest bidder.

I have yet to see Hillary say she will end all subsidies to new green energy programs.

Actually, it would be easier if you would just list what conservative economic policies you think she does support. Then it might be instructive to weigh them against the almost uncountable ones she demonstrably does not support.



I find it so weird that any association with Goldman Sachs is so poisonous. It's a huge company that does many things.

To hear the way some people talk about it you would think every dollar they spend on candidates comes with a picture attached of a baby sloth they intend to kill for the evulz.



It's very weird. I'm a Bernie supporter but I also like Hillary and just can't wrap my head around this bizarre venom some have for her.
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A much slower slide right is still losing ground, not a path forward.
 
Trakar said:
A much slower slide right is still losing ground, not a path forward.
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I would have thought the question in this little exchange is not whether or not Hillary is too far right for you, or any number of other qualities Hillary has or has not. Nor is it whether Travis is right about any of a number of things. Do not fall into the same trap as some of the most conservative folks around here of never acknowledging hyperbole. The fact, which Travis notes, is that even if Hillary is way too conservative for many tastes, and even if her core values are a moving target, she has certainly not espoused every conservative idea in the book.

I too find it odd that so many people here are so polarized, and that being a Bernie supporter (I am too, of course, because I think Bernie holds values that I like, and because I think he's a more effective politician than some believe, and because I think as long as we can we should support people who hold values we like rather than to count the seats left on the bandwagon), but I do not see why that requires that one despise Hillary.
 
16.5 said:
"delusional individuals." Say, we have a "skeptic" posting.

:rolleyes:

Three? I see two (this one and "hillary indicted") which has been inactive for a couple of days (and the leading poster was "bernie supporter" and fanatical shillary, Tony Stark)
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Unlike you, I voted for Bernie. As I proved.

Edited by zooterkin: 
<SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.
 
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Tony Stark said:
Unlike you, I voted for Bernie. As I proved.
Edited by zooterkin: 
<SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.
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16.5 seems to think that if you vote for Sanders then you must believe that he'll win. Apparently if you think Hillary will win anyway, you're wasting your vote away by not voting with the crowd. Or something.
 
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Argumemnon said:
16.5 seems to think that if you vote for Sanders then you must believe that he'll win. Apparently if you think Hillary will win anyway, you're wasting your vote away by not voting with the crowd. Or something.
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I think it's more along the lines of Karl Rove: if enough Republicans pretend to support Sanders, they can have the easier candidate to run against. As Rove (and other conservatives) are only pretending to support Sanders, they are primed to believe that everyone else claiming to support Sanders is also only pretending.
 
You could vote for Bernie to send her a message: more socialism! Bernie has been pulling her left the whole time.

No Bernie suppoer will come and vote for Trump or Cruz. They will vote for Hillary in Nov or stay home.
 
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Travis said:
I have yet to see Hillary propose...
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Facts are irrelevant, it's the narrative that counts.

I find it so weird that any association with Goldman Sachs is so poisonous.
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Before 2009 many people would have agreed with you. But now we know that all banks are evil. Goldman Sachs are at the top of that list because they are the most evil of all, and anyone who didn't disassociate from them before the crash was obviously in on it.

They say hindsight is always 20-20 and nobody could have known just how evil they were, but this simply isn't true. The signs were there for all to see. here are some blatant examples:-

Goldman Sachs:
During 2001-2009, the Goldman Sachs Global Leaders Program (GSGLP) identified 1,050 exceptional undergraduate students from 100 participating universities and colleges around the globe, awarded them "Global Leaders" in recognition of their academic excellence and leadership potential. Global Leaders study a diverse range of fields from economics to medical science.

In November 2007, Goldman Sachs established a donor advised fund called Goldman Sachs Gives that donates to charitable organizations around the world, while increasing their maximum employee donation match to $20,000. The firm's Community TeamWorks is an annual, global volunteering initiative that in 2007 gave over 20,000 Goldman employees a day off work from May through August to volunteer in a team-based project organized with a local nonprofit organization.

Goldman Sachs has received favorable press coverage for conducting business and implementing internal policies related to reversing global climate change.

The company also has been on Fortune Magazine's 100 Best Companies to Work For list since the list was launched in 1998
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And as if that wasn't bad enough,
In March 2008, Goldman launched the 10,000 Women initiative to train 10,000 women from predominantly developing countries in business and management
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Here is the smoking gun, direct evidence of Hillary's evil influence! Foreign women being turned into evil banksters! No doubt the goal was for them to infiltrate the US banking system and cause a financial meltdown - and it worked!!! :eek:

It's very weird. I'm a Bernie supporter but I also like Hillary and just can't wrap my head around this bizarre venom some have for her.
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They are victims of a very effective right wing smear campaign.

If You're Liberal and You Think Hillary Clinton Is Corrupt and Untrustworthy, You're Rewarding 25 Years of GOP Smears

But it's nothing personal. Hillary was targeted for one reason only - she's a Democrat.
 
Trakar said:
A much slower slide right is still losing ground, not a path forward.
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In 2000 we got Bush. In 2009 we moved left with Obama. Hillary is to the left of Obama.

But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative. Support Bernie, split the democrat vote and see what a real slide right looks like. Trump for President!
 
Almost all of the Bernie supporters will vote for Hilary in November for one reason: Trump.
If it was another Mainstream GOP candidate like McCain or Romney I could see them sitting this one out, but sheer fear of what Trump would do as President will bring the Bernities to the polls in November.
 
dudalb said:
Almost all of the Bernie supporters will vote for Hilary in November for one reason: Trump.
If it was another Mainstream GOP candidate like McCain or Romney I could see them sitting this one out, but sheer fear of what Trump would do as President will bring the Bernities to the polls in November.
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I believe that you are correct. A few of them might choose to vote for Jill Stein, though.
 
Travis said:
I doubt anything I say will convince you that I am a Bernie supporter. So I'll leave that alone.

But, what strawmen? Everything I listed is or was a part of a mainstream conservative politicians policy goals in recent years. In fact I just listened to Ted Cruz promise to do away with business regulations!

Demonstrate this slide to the right. I mean don't just say there is actually demonstrate that there is a slide to the right. Give me some evidence.
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We've been through this before and you tended to handwave it away by agreeing with her positions (just because it seems like a good idea to you doesn't mean that it isn't a traditionally conservative/rightward direction from typical progressive positions and constructs).

So which do you want to talk about:

International trade treaties

military adventurism

Corporatocracy

Oligarchy

all of the above energy policy

there are more internally, and globally...
 
Thread has been split, and is being taken off moderated status.

Please keep to the thread topic, and lay off the bickering.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: zooterkin
 
BenBurch said:
IF she did allow material that even she should have known was sensitive on a server that I would testify in court was vulnerable (even without seeing it, given the time and the now-known APTs) then she is indeed in serious legal trouble. Supposedly some of this material was of a nature to reveal sources or methods. There is no more damaging disclosure possible.
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BenBurch said:
Oh, the details of the server I am privy to. Because I know that class of server and what zero day defects were yet to be revealed in it. That's one of the things on my CV.
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Hmmm...

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/0...how-no-evidence-of-hacking.html?_r=1&referer=

WASHINGTON — A former aide to Hillary Clinton has turned over to the F.B.I. computer security logs from Mrs. Clinton’s private server, records that showed no evidence of foreign hacking, according to people close to a federal investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s emails.
 
bruto said:
I would have thought the question in this little exchange is not whether or not Hillary is too far right for you, or any number of other qualities Hillary has or has not. Nor is it whether Travis is right about any of a number of things. Do not fall into the same trap as some of the most conservative folks around here of never acknowledging hyperbole. The fact, which Travis notes, is that even if Hillary is way too conservative for many tastes, and even if her core values are a moving target, she has certainly not espoused every conservative idea in the book.

I too find it odd that so many people here are so polarized, and that being a Bernie supporter (I am too, of course, because I think Bernie holds values that I like, and because I think he's a more effective politician than some believe, and because I think as long as we can we should support people who hold values we like rather than to count the seats left on the bandwagon), but I do not see why that requires that one despise Hillary.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you. However, there seems to be a primary misunderstanding here. I don't dislike Hillary because I like Bernie. My Dislike of Hillary goes back a long time. I supported her against another presidential candidate I didn't like in 2008 because she was then the lessor of two evils, since then, her actions have removed the "lessor" part of the equation. If Senator Sanders had not run in this election I would have likely never even considered voting for the Democratic presidential candidate in 2016 at all. My only contributions to political threads this campaign would have probably been about the need to assure that we all vote for and elect progressive Senators.
 
16.5 said:
Yeah, Chez is a well known screamer and simpering Shillary who despises Bernie with the white hot passion of a thousand suns..

May I rebut?

The Problem With Hillary, Chez, Is I Don't Vote Republican
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Let's see.

From the first one
There are reasons you may choose not to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, but one would hope they're policy issues rather than problems with her personality
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From the second

Those are 25 pretty good reasons why we Democrats don't vote for Republicans, don't you think?

So why would we vote for Hillary Clinton, the Rockefeller Republican who exemplifies every one of those 25 statements?
Click to expand...


Sounds like policy reasons to me.
The second is rebutting a point the first want really making.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
In 2000 we got Bush. In 2009 we moved left with Obama. Hillary is to the left of Obama.

But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative. Support Bernie, split the democrat vote and see what a real slide right looks like. Trump for President!
Click to expand...

Obama did not shift us to the left, He basically left us where we were and continued the more gradual incremental shift to the right in many key areas that were along the same path that Bush had been dragging us along for the last eight years. A path rightward that Bill Clinton's triangulation started the Democratic party on eight years before Bush stole the presidency. Even the ACA is a warmed over version of the Republican corporate welfare for the Health insurance industry plan proposed against Hillary care in the '90s.

Hillary talked the left of Obama talk in 2008, but as soon as she got the chance she proved that she was to the right of Obama and wants the chance to prove that she can work to find middle ground with those who are even further to the right in the Republican party to demonstrate her bipartisanship. A problem that enamored and was the focus of Obama when he first entered the White House, and which was just as much of a mistake. We don't want or need a president who is going to work out a negotiated compromise with the crazy people. We need a good strongly progressive spokesman in the Bully pulpit who will spend the next eight years travelling the nation electing progressives, properly defining from a progressive understanding the problems that we face and promoting progressive policy solutions to our nation's problems.
 
dudalb said:
Almost all of the Bernie supporters will vote for Hilary in November for one reason: Trump.
If it was another Mainstream GOP candidate like McCain or Romney I could see them sitting this one out, but sheer fear of what Trump would do as President will bring the Bernities to the polls in November.
Click to expand...

Trump really doesn't scare most people as much as he seemingly does establishment Republicans and establishment DNC Hillary supporters,...for some reason. I personally don't agree with his idiocy but he's more Reagan crazy (without the California governorship to help him learn to hide it) than Cruz crazy. If Cruz was the GOP nominee I couldn't be as cavalier about not ever being able to vote for Hillary.
 
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Maya22 said:
...A few of them might choose to vote for Jill Stein, though.
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That is my most likely course of action, and who I probably would have voted for at the top of the ticket in this election if Senator Sanders had not run.
 
dudalb said:
Almost all of the Bernie supporters will vote for Hilary in November for one reason: Trump.
If it was another Mainstream GOP candidate like McCain or Romney I could see them sitting this one out, but sheer fear of what Trump would do as President will bring the Bernities to the polls in November.
Click to expand...

Hopefully they will also be so motivated if Cruz wins the nom.
 
Trakar said:
I don't disagree with you. However, there seems to be a primary misunderstanding here. I don't dislike Hillary because I like Bernie. My Dislike of Hillary goes back a long time. I supported her against another presidential candidate I didn't like in 2008 because she was then the lessor of two evils, since then, her actions have removed the "lessor" part of the equation. If Senator Sanders had not run in this election I would have likely never even considered voting for the Democratic presidential candidate in 2016 at all. My only contributions to political threads this campaign would have probably been about the need to assure that we all vote for and elect progressive Senators.
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You really need to consider you are caving to the undue influence of a false narrative about Clinton.
 
Trakar said:
We've been through this before and you tended to handwave it away by agreeing with her positions (just because it seems like a good idea to you doesn't mean that it isn't a traditionally conservative/rightward direction from typical progressive positions and constructs).
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Objective analysis shows that Hillary is to the left of Obama, so your 'slide to the right' is a fantasy.

Hillary Clinton on the Issues

FactCheck: Ranked 16th most liberal in Senate. (Feb 2008)
Voted with Democratic Party 96.7% of 304 votes. (Sep 2007)

International trade treaties:
I absorbed new info and changed my mind to oppose TPP. (Oct 2015)
TPP must produce jobs, raise wages, & protect security. (Apr 2015)
Global trading system isn't up to standards of fairness. (Jun 2014)
China benefits from WTO and should play by WTO rules. (Jun 2014)
Though Bill supported it, Hillary opposed NAFTA. (Oct 2007)
Voted against CAFTA despite Bill Clinton’s pushing NAFTA. (Oct 2005)

military adventurism:
Balance lower military & higher diplomacy budget. (Jun 2014)
Smart power: combine civil society & traditional diplomacy. (May 2014)
Would use very vigorous and bipartisan diplomacy. (Feb 2008)
Dems believe in fighting terror with cooperation. (Jun 2006)
Iraq war vote was meant to be used as coercive diplomacy. (Jan 2008)
No troop surge: no military escalation in Iraq. (Jan 2007)
Deploy UN multinational peacekeeping force in Darfur. (Jul 2007)
Require Congress' approval before military action in Iran. (Oct 2007)

Corporatocracy:
Reverse gun manufacturer immunity; let them get sued. (Nov 2015)
Investigate "shadow banks" and break up big banks. (Oct 2015)
World Bank should impose rules on sovereign wealth funds. (Jan 2008)
Enough with corporate welfare; enough with golden parachutes. (Jun 2007)
End no-bid contracts, end revolving door in government. (Aug 2007)
Cut gov’t contractors and end privatization of government. (Feb 2007)
Businesses play social role in US; gov’t oversight required. (Sep 1996)

Oligarchy:
Consider Constitutional Amendment against Citizen's United. (Jul 2014)
Fight obstacles to voting disguised as election fraud claims. (Aug 2013)
Stand for public financing and getting money out of politics. (Jan 2008)
Right to vote is precious & needs protection. (Sep 2005)
Soft money ban & independent ad ban for Senate campaign. (Feb 2000)

energy policy:
Take opportunity of climate change to raise our economy. (Oct 2015)
Get tough with energy speculators and with OPEC cartel. (May 2008)
Investigate gas price manipulation; add windfall profits tax. (Apr 2008)
Investigate & move toward energy efficiency and conservation. (Oct 2007)
Invest in alternative energy; jobs that won’t be outsourced. (Aug 2007)
End Big Oil tax break.(Jul 2007)
Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us. (Jun 2006)
Need to move toward energy efficiency and conservation. (Jan 2006)
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025. (Jan 2007)
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Objective analysis shows that Hillary is to the left of Obama, so your 'slide to the right' is a fantasy.

Hillary Clinton on the Issues

FactCheck: Ranked 16th most liberal in Senate. (Feb 2008)
Voted with Democratic Party 96.7% of 304 votes. (Sep 2007)

International trade treaties:
I absorbed new info and changed my mind to oppose TPP. (Oct 2015)
TPP must produce jobs, raise wages, & protect security. (Apr 2015)
Global trading system isn't up to standards of fairness. (Jun 2014)
China benefits from WTO and should play by WTO rules. (Jun 2014)
Though Bill supported it, Hillary opposed NAFTA. (Oct 2007)
Voted against CAFTA despite Bill Clinton’s pushing NAFTA. (Oct 2005)

military adventurism:
Balance lower military & higher diplomacy budget. (Jun 2014)
Smart power: combine civil society & traditional diplomacy. (May 2014)
Would use very vigorous and bipartisan diplomacy. (Feb 2008)
Dems believe in fighting terror with cooperation. (Jun 2006)
Iraq war vote was meant to be used as coercive diplomacy. (Jan 2008)
No troop surge: no military escalation in Iraq. (Jan 2007)
Deploy UN multinational peacekeeping force in Darfur. (Jul 2007)
Require Congress' approval before military action in Iran. (Oct 2007)

Corporatocracy:
Reverse gun manufacturer immunity; let them get sued. (Nov 2015)
Investigate "shadow banks" and break up big banks. (Oct 2015)
World Bank should impose rules on sovereign wealth funds. (Jan 2008)
Enough with corporate welfare; enough with golden parachutes. (Jun 2007)
End no-bid contracts, end revolving door in government. (Aug 2007)
Cut gov’t contractors and end privatization of government. (Feb 2007)
Businesses play social role in US; gov’t oversight required. (Sep 1996)

Oligarchy:
Consider Constitutional Amendment against Citizen's United. (Jul 2014)
Fight obstacles to voting disguised as election fraud claims. (Aug 2013)
Stand for public financing and getting money out of politics. (Jan 2008)
Right to vote is precious & needs protection. (Sep 2005)
Soft money ban & independent ad ban for Senate campaign. (Feb 2000)

energy policy:
Take opportunity of climate change to raise our economy. (Oct 2015)
Get tough with energy speculators and with OPEC cartel. (May 2008)
Investigate gas price manipulation; add windfall profits tax. (Apr 2008)
Investigate & move toward energy efficiency and conservation. (Oct 2007)
Invest in alternative energy; jobs that won’t be outsourced. (Aug 2007)
End Big Oil tax break.(Jul 2007)
Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us. (Jun 2006)
Need to move toward energy efficiency and conservation. (Jan 2006)
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025. (Jan 2007)
Click to expand...

Changing your mind because Democratic voters won't vote for you if you don't change the words you use to describe your position (at least until after you are elected to office) does not equate to a change of understandings and beliefs so much as a change in the strategy she is using to get elected.
 
Trakar said:
Trump really doesn't scare most people as much as he seemingly does establishment Republicans and establishment DNC Hillary supporters,...for some reason. I personally don't agree with his idiocy but he's more Reagan crazy (without the California governorship to help him learn to hide it) than Cruz crazy. If Cruz was the GOP nominee I couldn't be as cavalier about not ever being able to vote for Hillary.
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Gibberish of a high order. Besides that you generate labels at a rate that dwarfs an industrial label printer, your application of said labels is often nonsensical.
 
Trakar said:
Changing your mind because Democratic voters won't vote for you if you don't change the words you use to describe your position (at least until after you are elected to office) does not equate to a change of understandings and beliefs so much as a change in the strategy she is using to get elected.
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Come on Trakar, be honest. Sanders was against gay marriage and only voted against DOMA because he was pro-states rights. In his own state he supported civil unions only. Sanders was against gun controls until Clinton pointed it out then he modified his position. Sanders was pro-corporate subsidies for the corn industry under the false cover of claiming it was about environmentalism when it was more likely pandering for the Iowa vote.

Stop with the double standard and just be honest. You can be pro-Sanders without falsely demonizing Clinton.
 
Travis said:
It's very weird. I'm a Bernie supporter but I also like Hillary and just can't wrap my head around this bizarre venom some have for her.

Continuation of this thread.
Posted By: zooterkin
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Not necessarily directed at you, Travis, but I see a huge difference in political leanings depending on age.

I'm 48 and I remember Bill and Hillary very well. I've watched them over the years and have come to view them as power hungry scumbags who aren't afraid to show it. My opinion.

People that are younger just can't fathom the hatred for Hillary because they didn't see as much of this as people who are older.

The same goes for lack of concern over privacy. Younger people aren't nearly as concerned over privacy, in general, as are older folk. Do they still teach poli-sci in high school? Are students reading Orwell?

This is all just my opinion and I'm generalizing. From my side, I can't fathom how anyone could even entertain the idea of voting for any Clinton ever again. It boggles the mind, save for the explanation I've provided.
 
mgidm86 said:
... From my side, I can't fathom how anyone could even entertain the idea of voting for any Clinton ever again. It boggles the mind, save for the explanation I've provided.
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People who stop at the headlines and never look at the facts see the Clintons as bad people. Those of us that look at the actual details beg to differ.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Bull! It's the narrative and you are ignoring evidence to the contrary posted in this very thread.
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I'm not ignoring the quotes, or the votes, I just don't see these selected examples as accurately reflective the full breadth and volume of Hillary's statements and actions over the last 4-5 decades of her life, yet alone any indication of her actions were she to be elected to higher office.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Come on Trakar, be honest. Sanders was against gay marriage and only voted against DOMA because he was pro-states rights. In his own state he supported civil unions only. Sanders was against gun controls until Clinton pointed it out then he modified his position. Sanders was pro-corporate subsidies for the corn industry under the false cover of claiming it was about environmentalism when it was more likely pandering for the Iowa vote.

Stop with the double standard and just be honest. You can be pro-Sanders without falsely demonizing Clinton.
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You are free to follow the narrative that makes it easier for you to vote for and support Hillary if you like, but it does not accurately reflect my motivations or actions,

If Hillary were to adopt Sanders' policies in full, and I could trust her to earnestly fight to promote and pass them, I would easily support her candidacy. As I don't trust her to even fight for the half-step compromise policies she has adopted over the last year trying to co-opt the Democratic left, however, if Sanders is not the Democratic nominee, I won't be voting for the Democratic nominee for president this year.
 
mgidm86 said:
People that are younger just can't fathom the hatred for Hillary because they didn't see as much of this as people who are older.
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Hmm, I'm in my mid 40s, I've seen plenty of both Hillary and Bill, and I can't fathom the hatred for them either.
 
Trakar said:
I'm not ignoring the quotes, or the votes, I just don't see these selected examples as accurately reflective the full breadth and volume of Hillary's statements and actions over the last 4-5 decades of her life, yet alone any indication of her actions were she to be elected to higher office.
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I'm not talking about selected examples/samples. I'm talking about the whole picture. For example, this chart has been cited. Both Clintons are higher on the truthful statements chart than Sanders. And the article cited, If You're Liberal and You Think Hillary Clinton Is Corrupt and Untrustworthy, You're Rewarding 25 Years of GOP Smears, is extensively detailed covering false accusation after false accusation.

What is it about Clinton except all those false accusations that makes her so evil? It's ludicrous!
 
Seismosaurus said:
Hmm, I'm in my mid 40s, I've seen plenty of both Hillary and Bill, and I can't fathom the hatred for them either.
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Because for the last 25 years the media and GOP have been throwing mud and as they say, throw enough and some of it sticks.

It's funny watching the mindset though...

I don't trust her because she lies and so what she says and what she believes are different, and I know this because she's a lair who says things she doesn't believe.
 
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