Obama is a thin-skinned narcissist

Upchurch

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The following are excerpts of a conversation had in another thread:
Ziggurat said:
Obama is a thin-skinned narcissist with a contempt for much of the country and little respect for the military, and he uses divisiveness as a deliberate tactic, [snip]
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sunmaster14 said:
I am a close observer of Obama, and I completely agree with Ziggurat. Sure, Obama's not as crude and overt, or perhaps as farcical, as Trump, but I think he's in the same league as far as being a petulant narcissist.
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Upchurch said:
Okay, I give up. What [are] some examples of Obama's more nuanced and subtle, perhaps more dramatic, thin-skinned narcissism, oh close observer of Obama, that puts him in the same petulant narcissist league as Donald J. Trump?
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[edits by me for focus and because I made a typo originally]

That was probably the wrong thread for that conversation and nobody seemed to want to answer the question. I've heard similar statements on Facebook and similar.

My impression is that Obama has weathered all sorts of insults and jabs with good amount of stoicism and the occasional self-deprecating humor. He's also taken comedic jabs at certain people during the journalist dinner (the name of the event escapes me), which is supposed to be a roast. I honestly don't understand the claim that he is thin-skinned. He certainly hasn't attempted to have gag orders placed on people who have called him names, as has Trump.

I also don't understand the narcissism claim. I'm struggling to even think of an example that might be perceived as narcissism. I suppose calling the ACA "Obamacare" might be one, but that was originally applied by detractors. Obama only later embraced the name as a way to diffuse the connotation. As in, "Why yes, I do care."

So, I re-ask the question in it's own thread: What are some examples of Obama's more nuanced and subtle, perhaps more dramatic, thin-skinned narcissism that puts him in the same petulant narcissist league as Donald J. Trump?
 
As far as I can understand it, the claim originated following a meeting between Obama and Benjamin Netanyahu. Netanyahu was expounding on his solution for the Middle East and Obama apparently interrupted him, suggested that, as the leader of the free world, he wasn't entirely without a clue and presented a vision that contradicted Netanyahu's in a number of ways.

That he interrupted Netanyahu and suggested that he wasn't entirely clueless was apparently evidence of him being thin-skinned. That Obama believes that his view is correct (or Netanyahu's is wrong) is apparently evidence of his narcissism. Allegedly Obama's narcissism manifests as a complete inability to take anyone else's views on board and an insistence that he is right at all times.

Now this doesn't sound much like the Obama as he is portrayed in the UK press. Indeed he is shown as a man who is willing to take on and consider, in a nuanced way, many arguments - in stark contrast to his predecessor. No doubt this view is due to the extreme left-wing bias in all media outlets except FOX News and WND :rolleyes:


edited to add....

here's the article I read to develop the impression described above:

http://freebeacon.com/columns/president-obama-is-a-political-narcissist/

Of course if he wasn't a narcissist he would be a wimp who had no firm views rolleyes:
 
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Obama is black so "thin-skinned narcissist " is just another way of saying "uppity ******." Anyone who thinks they can be President has a very healthy ego, but Obama has been far less of an egotist than many of his rivals, enemies, or predecessors. But to some people, what would be acceptable confidence in an adult white male is a being "uppity" in a black man, or being a "bitch" if they are a woman.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove breach of rule 10
 
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So, I re-ask the question in it's own thread: What are some examples of Obama's more nuanced and subtle, perhaps more dramatic, thin-skinned narcissism that puts him in the same petulant narcissist league as Donald J. Trump?
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Fearless prediction:

You'll get the same level of answers as you'd expect from a 9/11 truther when you ask for an alternative narrative for the entire day's events.

Which is to say, none.
 
Myron Proudfoot said:
Obama is black so "thin-skinned narcissist " is just another way of saying "uppity ******."
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Trump is a thin-skinned narcissist too. How does that fit in with your theory?

Anyone who thinks they can be President has a very healthy ego, but Obama has been far less of an egotist than many of his rivals, enemies, or predecessors.
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The size of one's ego and the thinness of one's skin are independent variables. Bill Clinton has a fantastically large ego, but he's not thin skinned.
 
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If Obama were thin skinned, he would have grabbed a hidden mini-nuke from under the podium in one of his States of the Union speeches and leveled the place, what with all the hate directed toward him by the congress.
 
Myron Proudfoot said:
Obama is black so "thin-skinned narcissist " is just another way of saying "uppity ******." Anyone who thinks they can be President has a very healthy ego, but Obama has been far less of an egotist than many of his rivals, enemies, or predecessors. But to some people, what would be acceptable confidence in an adult white male is a being "uppity" in a black man, or being a "bitch" if they are a woman.
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I absolutely agree. I would add that I believe that many of the people who make this type of accusation are truly not consciously racist; same for most of the people who are convinced that Obama was not born in the USA, is a secret Muslim, etc. But I think that a lot of this arises subconsciously from emotional bias: a very vague feeling that there is something jarring and not right about this guy (who happens to be black) contradicting other guys (who happen to be white). I am not certain if I would even call this subconsciously racist in most cases- it may arise from a racial stereotype, or another bias having nothing to do with race;o can one be a racist if one doesn't have any racist conscious thoughts? No matter- that would deserve a separate thread.

The past 7+ years have really made me aware of how important this type of unaware bias is in shaping many people's political views. First comes a vague feeling arising from totally unexamined and unquestioned cultural predispositions that many who possess them are even unaware of having them. Then the individual cherry picks the news to attach some "facts" onto their predispositions, which permit then them to consciously feel that their bias-derived prejudice is actually a logically derived legitimate political opinion.

I believe that the Republican Party has, in particular, often exploited this strategy- first lay accusations against your opponents based on vague, undocumented personal shortcomings. If actual investigations prove many of these accusations wrong, don't let up- just keep repeating them. Soon many in the electorate will, when the name of the opponent comes up in discussion, get a vague feeling that "isn't that the politician who...?" From that point on, the voter will tend to selectively remember and magnify any bad facts that appear about that politician and forget or minimize the good ones.

It really is no different from modern commercial advertising. Look at all the TV commercials (in the USA at least) which don't even discuss the product in any detail, but only seek to associate it in the viewers' minds with beautiful natural scenes, happy families, people helping out others, young people enjoying themselves (and no doubt wishing to have sex with you if you buy the product).
 
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Giordano said:
I absolutely agree.
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I don't. While many people are overtly racist, I wouldn't care to accuse people of being unconsciously racist just because they attack a man who is black. First because it's unfalsifiable, second because it doesn't really help, and third because it becomes a blanket accusation against all opposition. At this stage in US politics, if Jesus himself was a Democratic candidate or president, the GOP would hate his guts and block him at every turn.
 
Ziggurat said:
Trump is a thin-skinned narcissist too. How does that fit in with your theory?


The size of one's ego and the thinness of one's skin are independent variables. Bill Clinton has a fantastically large ego, but he's not thin skinned.
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It fits in with the theory because most of Trump's right-wing and Fundamentalist supporters, including the bulk of the Republican politicians who have repeated accused Obama of being a thin-skinned narcissist, do not accuse Trump of being one, despite it being overwhelming obvious for Trump and not true of Obama.

As to the second comment- yes, one can be a narcissist and thick-skinned.

The evidence suggests that Obama is one of the least narcissistic and most thick-skinned presidents in my life time (with perhaps only Carter and Ford in the running- I am ignoring Bush II because I believe that Cheney was the real President at the time).
 
Giordano said:
It fits in with the theory because most of Trump's right-wing and Fundamentalist supporters, including the bulk of the Republican politicians who have repeated accused Obama of being a thin-skinned narcissist, do not accuse Trump of being one, despite it being overwhelming obvious for Trump and not true of Obama.
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First, there are obvious alternative explanations to explain what you describe, including simple partisanship. Holding your opponents to a higher standard than you hold those on your side is an almost universal human trait, one need not appeal to racism to explain it.

Second, and more importantly, it's not even relevant. Even assuming it's completely true, that doesn't demonstrate in any way that Obama is not a thin-skinned narcissist.

The evidence suggests that Obama is one of the least narcissistic and most thick-skinned presidents in my life time
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No, it doesn't.
 
Argumemnon said:
I don't. While many people are overtly racist, I wouldn't care to accuse people of being unconsciously racist just because they attack a man who is black. First because it's unfalsifiable, second because it doesn't really help, and third because it becomes a blanket accusation against all opposition. At this stage in US politics, if Jesus himself was a Democratic candidate or president, the GOP would hate his guts and block him at every turn.
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I took the effort to specifically indicate that I was not accusing anyone of being unconsciously racist- I don't like that concept at all. I also took care to make it clear that I did not believe that everyone buying into these particular unjustified personal accusations was doing so based on unconscious views of Obama's race, or even that most were- I expanded this concept ro state that many people begin with an emotional bias of some sort that they are often unaware that they have, and then proceed to selectively hang facts on it until they consciously can feel that they formed their opinion logically. It may be an vague emotional feeling about someone's physical appearance, someone's clothing, someone's origins or job. Aren't many of us surprised when a professional athlete or rock star turns out to have a PhD in physics or math? And I am not willing to make any such accusation against people who disagree with a given political policy rather than an individual per se. Look at how many Republicans are now onboard for Trump despite the fact that he advocates (or has very recently advocated) so many policies that the same Republicans have despised when advocated by Obama these past 8 years..

It is just how all people work. And I am not suggesting that I am somehow free of this emotional baggage despite my efforts to overcome it. When a big burly black dude comes up behind me on a street at night I have an extra moment of emotional fear versus if a Hassidic man does the same (I don't know what I would feel if a big burly black due in a beaver skin hat and long coat did it). I am not proud of it and I am still working on shedding it, but I have it. So if you view it that I am accusing people of unconscious racism, then I am accusing almost everyone of it in some context or other. The only people I have met who seem most free of this are in their twenties or below who grew up in culturally and ethnically diverse areas with supportive parents.
 
I don't know either way about the narcissist thing.

But thin-skinned - I don't think so.

He took on Biden as a VP after that Biden comment: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

You've got all the birth certificate stuff, over which where as far as I can recall, Obama never once lost his ****.

And that's not even going to the insults from the racists who did, and which I don't ever recall him responding with vitriol or hatred.

Probably best to drop the thin-skinned accusation, it weakens the narcissist argument by making it sound silly, and just focus on examples of the latter.
 
Ziggurat said:
First, there are obvious alternative explanations to explain what you describe, including simple partisanship. Holding your opponents to a higher standard than you hold those on your side is an almost universal human trait, one need not appeal to racism to explain it.

Second, and more importantly, it's not even relevant. Even assuming it's completely true, that doesn't demonstrate in any way that Obama is not a thin-skinned narcissist.



No, it doesn't.
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I have no doubt that partisanship plays a role, which then make these people overt hypocrites. So I am willing to go with describing current Trump supporters as largely motivated by a mix of subconscious biases (not always based on race, but often- look at the conscious statements of support and political beliefs of a goodly number of his supporters!) and disgusting hypocrisy.

To be fair these traits apply to people almost anywhere in the political spectrum- I believe only that the current Republican party and Trump in particular has taken these to new heights not rivaled in effectiveness or dedication by most others in the current political arena. I am particularly amazed how many fundamentalist religious "leaders" have, with some initial mutterings, gotten on the Trump bandwagon. I cannot imagine an individual more repugnant to the previously-professed beliefs of these religious fundamentalists as Trump. I am pleased to know that there are also other conservative religious groups who have not sold their views of morality down the river in this way.

[added] As to your last statement- agreed. Evidence would be nice. I am happy to add to the reasons/evidence already provided in this thread that Obama is NOT a thin-skinned narcissist; but given the inherent problems of broadly proving a negative perhaps you should go first by providing what was specifically requested in the OP- evidence that he is.
 
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NoahFence said:
If Obama were thin skinned, he would have grabbed a hidden mini-nuke from under the podium in one of his States of the Union speeches and leveled the place, what with all the hate directed toward him by the congress.
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He never even did that verbally. If anything I'd say Obama has been overly cautious in what he says and how he says it. He seems overly self conscious of his place in history and seems like he wanted to just get in and get out cleanly without a lot of unnecessary nonsense cluttering up his historical record.
 
When accused of it, he immediately lets everyone know that it isn't true. That he has very strong and thick skin.

Oh wait...
 
The way the Obama dynamic with Republicans reads to me is similar to the way our JayUtah* can - quite politely and correctly, with panache - show how freaking dumb someone is. That is far more infuriating than any stooping to coarse discourse, and a skill to aspire to.


*Don't, er, get uppity.;)
 
hell, there's an entire popular comic routine (Obama's anger translator) based on the fact that he's kept his cool through years of hateful and (usually) untrue attacks. Can you imagine Trump needing an anger-translator because he always seem to calm?????
 
Giordano said:
I absolutely agree. I would add that I believe that many of the people who make this type of accusation are truly not consciously racist; same for most of the people who are convinced that Obama was not born in the USA, is a secret Muslim, etc. But I think that a lot of this arises subconsciously from emotional bias: a very vague feeling that there is something jarring and not right about this guy (who happens to be black) contradicting other guys (who happen to be white). I am not certain if I would even call this subconsciously racist in most cases- it may arise from a racial stereotype, or another bias having nothing to do with race;o can one be a racist if one doesn't have any racist conscious thoughts? No matter- that would deserve a separate thread.

The past 7+ years have really made me aware of how important this type of unaware bias is in shaping many people's political views. First comes a vague feeling arising from totally unexamined and unquestioned cultural predispositions that many who possess them are even unaware of having them. Then the individual cherry picks the news to attach some "facts" onto their predispositions, which permit then them to consciously feel that their bias-derived prejudice is actually a logically derived legitimate political opinion.

I believe that the Republican Party has, in particular, often exploited this strategy- first lay accusations against your opponents based on vague, undocumented personal shortcomings. If actual investigations prove many of these accusations wrong, don't let up- just keep repeating them. Soon many in the electorate will, when the name of the opponent comes up in discussion, get a vague feeling that "isn't that the politician who...?" From that point on, the voter will tend to selectively remember and magnify any bad facts that appear about that politician and forget or minimize the good ones.

It really is no different from modern commercial advertising. Look at all the TV commercials (in the USA at least) which don't even discuss the product in any detail, but only seek to associate it in the viewers' minds with beautiful natural scenes, happy families, people helping out others, young people enjoying themselves (and no doubt wishing to have sex with you if you buy the product).
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I freely call it openly and knowingly and intentionally racist - but only because it is!!!!!
 
Tony Stark said:
When accused of it, he immediately lets everyone know that it isn't true. That he has very strong and thick skin.

Oh wait...
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And Trump doesn't have small fingers. In fact, he takes almost a large in gloves! He has thick and long skinned hands!
 
Hlafordlaes said:
The way the Obama dynamic with Republicans reads to me is similar to the way our JayUtah* can - quite politely and correctly, with panache - show how freaking dumb someone is. That is far more infuriating than any stooping to coarse discourse, and a skill to aspire to.


*Don't, er, get uppity.;)
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I think that is a very good point. To many of his detractors that probably comes across as arrogance. It's a short leap to then claim narcicissim.
 
Cheese and rice....

I am not an Obama supporter in that I don't agree with his political ideas. But I see no need to attack the man personally. In fact, I kind of admire him as a human being. I don't know why we have to demean our political opponents. They are mostly people like us: good people with good intentions. I'm all for calling them out on things they do wrong but my God people, they aren't the Devil.
 
Trump is obviously a thin-skinned narcissist. Look at all the lawsuits he has brought against people for things like defamation. How many people has Obama sued for defamation?
 
I'm not going put much time into this thread because I've already written dozens of posts on the subject, and nothing I say ever sinks in.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove breach of rule 12
.

Regardless, here is a good start. And one of the first links to hit is a good example.

Obama's arrogance is probably at the limit of the range that psychiatrists would consider normal (Trump may fall outside that range, if his arrogance isn't some sort of interesting act). In 2008, he said this:

I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters. I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m gonna think I’m a better political director than my political director.
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I have read about how condescending Obama can be to advisers giving him briefings. He once treated Stephen Chu (his Energy Secretary at the time and a Nobel Prize winning physicist) like a low level staffer who was wasting his time - dismissing him with a wave and a "that's enough Stephen."

You can see how he lords over people in meetings and conferences which have been televised. The Obamacare debates with Republicans was a prime example. He debates by attributing the most shallow and self-serving motives to his opponents, and is the consummate builder and destroyer of strawmen. He does this even to Democrats. Take for example, his dismissal of Elizabeth Warren's concerns about TPP last year.

I can see how people who aren't as smart as Obama is might see this as evidence of his genius, but I can assure you that people who are as smart as he (or likely smarter) can see right through the ********, right down to a man who at his core will not change his mind, or admit a mistake, or even admit that his opponents might be advocating in good faith. He has been treated as if he ***** diamonds from the time he was in law school (and probably long before), and he has turned into exactly what you might expect.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Trump is a thin-skinned narcissist too. How does that fit in with your theory?



The size of one's ego and the thinness of one's skin are independent variables. Bill Clinton has a fantastically large ego, but he's not thin skinned.
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Number of lawsuits for defamation is an objective metric. How many has trump filed and how many has Obama?

If you prefer anecdotes, just look at how trump reacted to mild criticism during the primary campaign. Look at his Twitter feed. I can't think of anything comparable in obamas case.

Balls in your court.
 
Puppycow said:
Trump is obviously a thin-skinned narcissist. Look at all the lawsuits he has brought against people for things like defamation. How many people has Obama sued for defamation?
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He made jokes about the birth certificate nonsense. He might be fulminating inside, but he sure doesn't show it.
 
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