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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old 16th May 2018, 01:06 PM   #2481
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Yes, Bjarne.
I don't think he is.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:03 PM   #2482
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Thumbs down Repeats his lie about GR not connecting curvature of spacetime and matter

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
...For example there are no connection between the so-called curvature of space and matter.
16 May 2018 Bjarne: Repeats his lie about GR not connecting curvature of spacetime and matter

16 May 2018 Bjarne: A "so-called curvature of space" lie when GR has actual curvature of spacetime.

23 October 2009: Does Bjarne know basic physics (unit-less quantities cannot be arbitrarily assigned units)

7 March 2012: Why RR is a fantasy and Bjarne debunks RR again and again!

137 items of ignorance and delusions and some lies in this thread up to 27 February 2018

16 February 2018 Bjarne: The idiocy of a calculation debunking RR - 10.88 is not within 8.74 ±1.33

20 March 2018: After 2 months we now have 12 lies of his theory predicating observations and experimental results since he cannot give the calculations.

23 items of ignorance, fantasy and lies from 26 April 2018 to 10 May 2018.

Last edited by Reality Check; 16th May 2018 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:05 PM   #2483
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Relative to a clock on earth
Okay so I can't actually do it at any time , but only by comparison to a clock on earth.

Which begs the question, how can I know true motion then, the earth is in an orbit around the sun, the sun orbit the galactic center.

Isn't the clock on earth going to be effected by that movement?

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Any observer can measure true motion, - however if a observer don't know which direction will increase or decrease true-speed, he have a problem to solve first.
To solve this he can use time dilation.
A certain kinematic based time dilation correspond to a certain true-speed increase or decrease.
Off course gravity is causing a similar time dilation influence that have to be filtered.
So an observer on a space ship can not measure true motion, they have to wait to get back to earth.

Can a clock on earth measure true motion?

It is going around the sun and the galactic center?
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Last edited by Dancing David; 16th May 2018 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:16 PM   #2484
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Thumbs down Irrelevant nonsense as a reply to an Earth velocity question

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
....
16 May 2018 Bjarne: Irrelevant nonsense as a reply to an Earth velocity relative to "space itself" question.
The questions is clear:
What is Earths current velocity and direction relative to "space itself" and how will you measure it?

Irrelevant nonsense is not an answer.
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:19 PM   #2485
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
In reality (which I must admit has little connection to Bjarne's argument), Einstein's field equations state a mathematically precise connection between curvature of space and matter (which is a component of the stress-energy tensor Tμν). In geometrized units:
I mean ; - there are no cause > effect explanation at all. - Or in other words, WHY does space "curve" near matter. WHICH process is responsible.
Asking "why" is a luxury reserved for theories that have already proved themselves wildly successful at the task of describing reality with such mathematical precision that even our most exacting tests cannot detect any difference between prediction and reality. By asking "why", Bjarne implicitly acknowledges that Einstein's theories of relativity have achieved that status.

Bjarne's theories have not.

As for "why" spacetime curvature is so closely connected to the stress-energy tensor, a sufficiently speculative person might speculate that what we perceive as matter might actually be some kind of manifestation of spacetime curvature. Although such speculation would not be overly glib by the standards Bjarne has set within this thread, serious consideration of that idea would quickly lead to an effort to unify relativity with quantum field theory. That effort began during Einstein's lifetime, and is still in progress. This thread will not contribute to any success in that direction.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Quote:
Unlike Bjarne's "theory", which appeals to his fantasized results from experiments that have not yet been performed, Einstein's general theory of relativity has survived a long history of rigorous experimental testing:
That's Bjarne's way of saying he doesn't understand Einstein's theory.
Within a year or 1˝ you will see that : there is nothing (except fantasy) to understand. He got it wrong, - this old theory is VERY incomplete, - and essential wrong, when it comes to; - the nature of space,.
Protip: Gloating about your vindication works better after your vindication than before.

On my reading of one of Bjarne's previous posts, I thought he had described a empirically testable prediction of his theory that would distinguish his theory from Einstein's:

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Quote:
If I understand this correctly, Bjarne deserves credit here for predicting a consequence of his theory that differs from the consequences of Einstein's theory. Those differing predictions could, in principle, be tested by an experiment.

Several such experiments have been performed. For example:
There are no disagreement at this point, according to which results must be expected,
So I must have misinterpreted Bjarne's prediction.

Unfortunately for Bjarne, he went on to write:
Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
however the cause of that phenomena is that; - the deeper in a gravitational field a photons is emitted,the more redshiftet it is, - already when emitted. Its the same principle responsible for cosmological redshift.
If that were the same principle responsible for cosmological redshift, the earth would have to be at or very near the center of the universe.

(It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bjarne does believe the earth is at the center of the universe. He has evaded direct questioning on that topic, however, so I'm just noting that Bjarne's explanations of his theory assume a geocentric universe.)

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
There are no information about a launch north (relative to ecliptic) and even if this was the case the speed would be relative low. - Wait for the ISS test.
Actually, there have been quite a number of similar experiments performed at various places on earth. If Bjarne's objection to those experiments were valid, we'd expect to see a correlation between the latitudes of those experiments and their results. Which we don't.

More importantly, Bjarne is contradicting himself. A couple of paragraphs earlier, he denied my suggestion that the experiments I cited supported Einstein's theory over Bjarne's by writing "There are no disagreement at this point, according to which results must be expected". Here, however, he is saying his theory predicts results different from those predicted by Einstein's theory.

Although I am quite sure I still don't understand what Bjarne is trying to say, folks who contradict themselves when discussing predictions made by their own pet theory are usually pushing an incoherent pet theory.
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Old 17th May 2018, 04:28 AM   #2486
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I mean ; - there are no cause > effect explanation at all. - Or in other words, WHY does space "curve" near matter. WHICH process is responsible.
Neither has your own theory. WHY is space "sticky"? WHAT is space made of in your theory?
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Old 17th May 2018, 05:19 AM   #2487
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Okay so I can't actually do it at any time , but only by comparison to a clock on earth.

Which begs the question, how can I know true motion then, the earth is in an orbit around the sun, the sun orbit the galactic center.

Isn't the clock on earth going to be effected by that movement?



So an observer on a space ship can not measure true motion, they have to wait to get back to earth.

Can a clock on earth measure true motion?

It is going around the sun and the galactic center?
I hypothesize you've put more effort and thought into the ramifications of using a "clock on Earth" as an "absolute reference point" than Bjarne has.
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Old 17th May 2018, 05:30 AM   #2488
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Okay so I can't actually do it at any time , but only by comparison to a clock on earth.
Any observer can measure true motion/speed decrease or increase relative to other observers.

Quote:
Which begs the question, how can I know true motion then, the earth is in an orbit around the sun, the sun orbit the galactic center.
You can measure onthe north / south dark flow axis, thats for sure, in addition you can most likely measure a additional sidewards effect by the same method.

Quote:
Isn't the clock on earth going to be effected by that movement?
Of course time dilation already effect clocks on earth, that dilation correspond to the true motion of the Earth, and off course a gravitational effect as well.

Quote:
So an observer on a space ship can not measure true motion, they have to wait to get back to earth.
The earth is a "giant spaceship" - if sending small space probes north or south you will measure different anisotropic time dilation as already explained. This is the way to test it.

Quote:
Can a clock on earth measure true motion?
No
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Old 17th May 2018, 06:30 AM   #2489
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
Asking "why" is a luxury reserved for theories that have already proved themselves wildly successful at the task of describing reality with such mathematical precision that even our most exacting tests cannot detect any difference between prediction and reality. By asking "why", Bjarne implicitly acknowledges that Einstein's theories of relativity have achieved that status.

Bjarne's theories have not.

As for "why" spacetime curvature is so closely connected to the stress-energy tensor, a sufficiently speculative person might speculate that what we perceive as matter might actually be some kind of manifestation of spacetime curvature. Although such speculation would not be overly glib by the standards Bjarne has set within this thread, serious consideration of that idea would quickly lead to an effort to unify relativity with quantum field theory. That effort began during Einstein's lifetime, and is still in progress. This thread will not contribute to any success in that direction.


Protip: Gloating about your vindication works better after your vindication than before.

On my reading of one of Bjarne's previous posts, I thought he had described a empirically testable prediction of his theory that would distinguish his theory from Einstein's:


So I must have misinterpreted Bjarne's prediction.

Unfortunately for Bjarne, he went on to write:

If that were the same principle responsible for cosmological redshift, the earth would have to be at or very near the center of the universe.

(It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bjarne does believe the earth is at the center of the universe. He has evaded direct questioning on that topic, however, so I'm just noting that Bjarne's explanations of his theory assume a geocentric universe.)


Actually, there have been quite a number of similar experiments performed at various places on earth. If Bjarne's objection to those experiments were valid, we'd expect to see a correlation between the latitudes of those experiments and their results. Which we don't.

More importantly, Bjarne is contradicting himself. A couple of paragraphs earlier, he denied my suggestion that the experiments I cited supported Einstein's theory over Bjarne's by writing "There are no disagreement at this point, according to which results must be expected". Here, however, he is saying his theory predicts results different from those predicted by Einstein's theory.

Although I am quite sure I still don't understand what Bjarne is trying to say, folks who contradict themselves when discussing predictions made by their own pet theory are usually pushing an incoherent pet theory.
There is few points you have to consider:
The theory of reality failed to explain:
  1. Fly by anomalies
  2. The Pioneer anomalies (that was swiped under the carpet by NASA)
  3. The old well known incompatiblety with quantum mechanism.

So long so good,
Now take it easy, - wait a year +/- and a major problem with that old theory will be a matter of fact, - so at least prepare you self to wish the old dying theory farewell.

According to the experiments you mentioned, - as I wrote, experiments based on relative small speed experiments is useless. Did you know the ISS is 5000 faster as a riffle bullet

Last edited by Bjarne; 17th May 2018 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 17th May 2018, 06:42 AM   #2490
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Neither has your own theory. WHY is space "sticky"? WHAT is space made of in your theory?
If the new and old theory both only would have one attempt to describe space in a single word, - Einsteins would choose "space-time", or "curvature" (or all 3) , - and still no-one would really understand what that really mean.
However many would say they understood the meaning, but only because they don't want other people to believe they are stupid.

I would choose; "elastic-space", - and that is enough to start a dangerous avalanche, - that automatically would take you both fare fare away and deep inside a nuclear. It would solve the nature of gravity with a blink of an eye, - solve dark energy, - and it would reveal that big Crunch is the cause of Big Bang, - Such innocent little keyword , do in fact have a total damaging effect on the prevailing paradigm.
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Old 17th May 2018, 08:48 AM   #2491
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If the new and old theory both only would have one attempt to describe space in a single word, - Einsteins would choose "space-time", or "curvature" (or all 3) , - and still no-one would really understand what that really mean.
However many would say they understood the meaning, but only because they don't want other people to believe they are stupid.?
I believe I understand the meaning, and I am not afraid of looking stupid. I think that you are afraid of looking stupid because you do not understand it, and that is why you claim that nobody understands it: that makes everybody else look stupid, but you are a genius. Unfortunately, it does not work that way. On the contrary, you look even more stupid for rejecting something you do not understand.

Quote:
I would choose; "elastic-space", - and that is enough to start a dangerous avalanche, - that automatically would take you both fare fare away and deep inside a nuclear. It would solve the nature of gravity with a blink of an eye, - solve dark energy, - and it would reveal that big Crunch is the cause of Big Bang, - Such innocent little keyword , do in fact have a total damaging effect on the prevailing paradigm.
So, WHY is space "sticky"? WHAT is space made of in your theory?
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:25 AM   #2492
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
So, WHY is space "sticky"? WHAT is space made of in your theory?
Since you asked.

Ever since a shape shifting accident in his youth, Odin has had a cloaca. After the initial Ragnarok he laid the cosmic egg that the current universe hatched from, and space is, er, well, a rather unpleasant material that was expelled along with the egg. It was slippery shortly after the egg hatched, which allowed everything to scoot away at high speed, but it's been getting stickier as it dries over the millennia. Eventually it will dry out completely, causing everything to stop moving away from where the egg hatched. Once that happens it will *SPROING* back together causing a cosmic crunch.
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:32 AM   #2493
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Any observer can measure true motion/speed decrease or increase relative to other observers.


You can measure onthe north / south dark flow axis, thats for sure, in addition you can most likely measure a additional sidewards effect by the same method.


Of course time dilation already effect clocks on earth, that dilation correspond to the true motion of the Earth, and off course a gravitational effect as well.


The earth is a "giant spaceship" - if sending small space probes north or south you will measure different anisotropic time dilation as already explained. This is the way to test it.


No
So a clock on earth can't measure true motion?

Please explain to me how a clock can measure true motion? Or which set of clocks can measure true motion?

You said my space ship could only measure true motion in relation to a clock on earth, yes?
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Old 17th May 2018, 09:58 AM   #2494
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
So a clock on earth can't measure true motion?

Please explain to me how a clock can measure true motion? Or which set of clocks can measure true motion?

You said my space ship could only measure true motion in relation to a clock on earth, yes?
Therein lies the rub that Bjarne is so desperate to hide. His "true motion" is relative to your starting point. Where you start is your absolute frame of reference.

Think of it in terms of Mormon cosmology. Each "god" is in fact a human from a previous Earth. They achieved deity status by being a good follower of THEIR God. Mormons however know NOTHING about how far back this chain goes or the nature of the being who was the ORIGINAL God. They only worship their local deity, the one of THIS Earth.

Bjarne's "absolute" frame of reference functions is a similar manner. Just as Mormons don't worship the God that THEIR God worshiped, we can't calculate our motion in relation to the EARTH'S stating point, only our starting point ON Earth.

This begs the question of what happens when frames of reference collide, a question neither Bjarne nor the Mormons have addressed.
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:23 AM   #2495
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity.
Really? Nobody? And exactly how do you know this?

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Old 17th May 2018, 10:58 AM   #2496
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Really? Nobody? And exactly how do you know this?
Some people feel the need to project their own shortcomings onto others. Unable to accept there are people smarter than they are or who are better students, they assume that they personalty represent the high water mark.

Bjanre does not understand the Theory of Relativity, therefore he assumes nobody else does either.

The Role of Narcissistic Projection in Self-Doubt and Relationship Drama
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:26 AM   #2497
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
So a clock on earth can't measure true motion?

Please explain to me how a clock can measure true motion? Or which set of clocks can measure true motion?

You said my space ship could only measure true motion in relation to a clock on earth, yes?
Lets say the true (dark flow) speed of the earth is 300.000m/s
This correspond to a time dilation at 0.0000005 s.
Lets say you now decide to move opposite at the same speed,- your true speed would now be zero, - there would be no time dilation effecting your clock.
Which mean a time dilation 0.0000005 s. less relative to a clock on earth.
If you would move against the same direction as dark flow, the time dilation already affecting you would double = 0.000001 s, - that would be 0.0000005 s more relative to a clock on earth.

Last edited by Bjarne; 17th May 2018 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:28 AM   #2498
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
I believe I understand the meaning, and I am not afraid of looking stupid. I think that you are afraid of looking stupid because you do not understand it, and that is why you claim that nobody understands it: that makes everybody else look stupid, but you are a genius. Unfortunately, it does not work that way. On the contrary, you look even more stupid for rejecting something you do not understand.
I know your faith is wrong
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:31 AM   #2499
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Really? Nobody? And exactly how do you know this?

Hans
I think its in the same ways as when you know that Scientology is nothing but brainwash
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Old 17th May 2018, 01:44 PM   #2500
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Thumbs down Repeats the paranoia and lie that the explained Pioneer anomalies were hidden by NASA

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
The theory of reality failed to explain:
18 May 2018 Bjarne: Repeats the paranoia and lie that the explained Pioneer anomalies were hidden by NASA

18 May 2018 Bjarne: Stupidity that fly by anomalies not being explained support his fantasies.

18 May 2018 Bjarne: Stupidity that GR and QM being incompatible supports ignorant fantasies that are not physics, GR or QM!
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Old 17th May 2018, 01:49 PM   #2501
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A "Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity" lie when many people do

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity.
18 May 2018 Bjarne: A "Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity" lie when many people do.
His abysmal ignorance of relativity does not mean that everyone in the world is ignorant about relativity, There are many SR and GR textbooks written by experts on relativity. Every year thousands of university students learn and understand SR and GR.
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Old 17th May 2018, 02:08 PM   #2502
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Lets say the true (dark flow) speed of the earth is 300.000m/s
This correspond to a time dilation at 0.0000005 s.
Lets say you now decide to move opposite at the same speed,- your true speed would now be zero, - there would be no time dilation effecting your clock.
Which mean a time dilation 0.0000005 s. less relative to a clock on earth.
If you would move against the same direction as dark flow, the time dilation already affecting you would double = 0.000001 s, - that would be 0.0000005 s more relative to a clock on earth.
Hi Bjarne,
I believe you said that any observer can determine true motion?

How do you do that?

First you said my spaceship needed to reference a clock on earth, how do you reference speed relative to the dark flow?
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Old 17th May 2018, 02:22 PM   #2503
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If the new and old theory both only would have one attempt to describe space in a single word, - Einsteins would choose "space-time", or "curvature" (or all 3) , - and still no-one would really understand what that really mean.
However many would say they understood the meaning, but only because they don't want other people to believe they are stupid.

I would choose; "elastic-space", - and that is enough to start a dangerous avalanche, - that automatically would take you both fare fare away and deep inside a nuclear. It would solve the nature of gravity with a blink of an eye, - solve dark energy, - and it would reveal that big Crunch is the cause of Big Bang, - Such innocent little keyword , do in fact have a total damaging effect on the prevailing paradigm.
I'll be damned! Space really is just an abstract expression to you! It is all a semantic game. Define space just so and voila, problem solved! How underwhelming!
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Old 17th May 2018, 06:01 PM   #2504
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
However many would say they understood the meaning, but only because they don't want other people to believe they are stupid.

I've got news for you: Adults don't worry about whether other people believe they're stupid.
That is not to say adults can't be stupid, and there are many varieties and gradations of stupidity, but when it comes to what other people think about whether they're stupid, adults have pretty much figured out that it always comes down to some kind of linear combination of these two extremes: (1) the folks who think I'm stupid are right about that, so their insight deserves respect; (2) the folks who think I'm stupid are wrong about that, so their opinions don't matter.

Here's another fact that may surprise you: Most of the people who have participated in this thread are adults.
One can of course argue that engaging with Bjarne and others who promote equally silly ideas is an inherently childish pastime, but threads such as this do have some utility when they illustrate the stark contrast between pseudoscience and science.
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:53 PM   #2505
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Hi Bjarne,
I believe you said that any observer can determine true motion?

How do you do that?

First you said my spaceship needed to reference a clock on earth, how do you reference speed relative to the dark flow?
I have explained to you, but it seems you don't want to understand
It is silly dummy simple, - if a space probe clock tick faster (relative to a clock on earth), - when moving any direction away from earth, - then that space probes is decreasing its true-speed.
If the opposite happens, - true-speed is increasing.
At the same time reality (rulers + distances) on board is "transformed" too, - in a process, - this is all what special relativity is about.
You off course always have to filter / ignore the gravitational influence, if you want to extract the true-speed influence

Last edited by Bjarne; 17th May 2018 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 17th May 2018, 10:54 PM   #2506
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Originally Posted by hgus View Post
I'll be damned! Space really is just an abstract expression to you! It is all a semantic game. Define space just so and voila, problem solved! How underwhelming!
It have been done so the last 100 years
Don't tell me you know what "the curvature of space" is made of
As I said, even in the kindergarten, the education is high enough to understand that this is "fantasy" and at is best; - abstract thinking

Last edited by Bjarne; 17th May 2018 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:00 PM   #2507
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
I've got news for you: Adults don't worry about whether other people believe they're stupid.
That is not to say adults can't be stupid, and there are many varieties and gradations of stupidity, but when it comes to what other people think about whether they're stupid, adults have pretty much figured out that it always comes down to some kind of linear combination of these two extremes: (1) the folks who think I'm stupid are right about that, so their insight deserves respect; (2) the folks who think I'm stupid are wrong about that, so their opinions don't matter.

Here's another fact that may surprise you: Most of the people who have participated in this thread are adults.
One can of course argue that engaging with Bjarne and others who promote equally silly ideas is an inherently childish pastime, but threads such as this do have some utility when they illustrate the stark contrast between pseudoscience and science.
I think you will reconsider who is the dummy and brainwashed, - after one years time
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:40 PM   #2508
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
It is silly dummy simple, - if a space probe clock tick faster (relative to a clock on earth) [...]
How do you determine that? Just explain it really simple: Do you look at the space probe with a telescope? Does it send the value of the clock by radio?
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:42 PM   #2509
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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017 - Part II

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Don't tell me you know what "the curvature of space" is made of
Don't tell me you know what "the elastic-space" is made of!
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Old 18th May 2018, 06:10 AM   #2510
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
It is silly dummy simple, - if a space probe clock tick faster (relative to a clock on earth), - when moving any direction away from earth, - then that space probes is decreasing its true-speed.
What exactly is "true-speed"?

Is true speed a single, constant, numerical value that that all objects either travel at, travel faster than, or travel slower than?

Or does each object have its own true-speed value which stays the same, increases, or decreases?
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Old 18th May 2018, 06:37 AM   #2511
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
It have been done so the last 100 years
Don't tell me you know what "the curvature of space" is made of
As I said, even in the kindergarten, the education is high enough to understand that this is "fantasy" and at is best; - abstract thinking
More projection.

So sad.

So low energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
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Old 18th May 2018, 07:50 AM   #2512
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
It have been done so the last 100 years
Don't tell me you know what "the curvature of space" is made of
As I said, even in the kindergarten, the education is high enough to understand that this is "fantasy" and at is best; - abstract thinking
My hilite

The curvature of space describes its geometry, not what it's "made of". If I ask you what a soccer ball is made of, will you tell me it's made of "round"?

ETA: Of course, if your thinking is stuck back in the 19th century and you cling to the notion that the aether exists, I can see how you're getting this wrong.
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Last edited by ferd burfle; 18th May 2018 at 08:14 AM. Reason: remove unintentional pun
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Old 18th May 2018, 07:56 AM   #2513
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
It have been done so the last 100 years
Don't tell me you know what "the curvature of space" is made of
As I said, even in the kindergarten, the education is high enough to understand that this is "fantasy" and at is best; - abstract thinking
Bjarne, what is 1 meter made of?


What is triangle made of?
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Old 18th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #2514
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I think you will reconsider who is the dummy and brainwashed, - after one years time
Read the thread title. It's already "after one years time".

Dave
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:18 AM   #2515
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
How do you determine that? Just explain it really simple: Do you look at the space probe with a telescope? Does it send the value of the clock by radio?
Look it up at the internet, - keyword time stamp + ditance
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:20 AM   #2516
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
My hilite

The curvature of space describes its geometry, not what it's "made of". If I ask you what a soccer ball is made of, will you tell me it's made of "round"?

ETA: Of course, if your thinking is stuck back in the 19th century and you cling to the notion that the aether exists, I can see how you're getting this wrong.
So if the curvature is made of nothing, how can nothing "curve" ?
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:25 AM   #2517
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Bjarne, what is 1 meter made of?
What is triangle made of?
So the curvature of space is really nothing ?
How can that noting then have a "curvature shape" ?
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:52 AM   #2518
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I have explained to you, but it seems you don't want to understand
It is silly dummy simple, - if a space probe clock tick faster (relative to a clock on earth), - when moving any direction away from earth, - then that space probes is decreasing its true-speed.
If the opposite happens, - true-speed is increasing.
At the same time reality (rulers + distances) on board is "transformed" too, - in a process, - this is all what special relativity is about.
You off course always have to filter / ignore the gravitational influence, if you want to extract the true-speed influence
What about the motion of Earth around the sun 30 km/s, and the sun's orbit around the galaxy at 220 km/s, how do you determine true motion for the Earth ?
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:53 AM   #2519
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
How do you determine that? Just explain it really simple: Do you look at the space probe with a telescope? Does it send the value of the clock by radio?
My understanding it that my space probe has to return to earth and compare clock times
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Old 18th May 2018, 08:55 AM   #2520
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Look it up at the internet, - keyword time stamp + ditance
That doesn't answer the question Bjarne, does the probe have to measure distance and return to earth to measure the difference in clock time?
What other way can the probe compare clock time to the clock on earth?
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