Do Atheists secretly know there is a God?

The Sparrow

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The Sparrow
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I've heard this suggested by certain members here, and of course it is one of Sye Ten Bruggengate's favorite sayings.


Discuss!


I say it is impossible for these folks to know what atheists 'secretly' believe or don't believe.
 
I'm an atheist, and I do not secretly know there is a God, an Odin, a Buddha, a Hindu pantheon, a Jupiter (no, not the planet) or any other god or collection of gods you may wish to name.

Dave
 
One of those unfalsifiable situations. How can you claim something that's supposed to be secret?

Sounds like one of those "Well, of course everybody KNOWS that God is real!" lines of thinking.
 
Argumemnon said:
I rather think that a lot of theists know that there isn't.
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Much more plausible to me. Its likely there are far more professed theists who secretly harbor deep suspicions about the existence of their chosen deity than there are atheists that secretly harbor a strong suspicion there is some deity out there. Simply due to the numbers of professed theists and atheists out there.
 
It's a question asked from a psychological position of belief. I would just as easily ask the complimentary question of theists if I didn't realize that beliefs don't have any bearing on facts.

One fact is that there's no objective evidence that supports anything supernatural.

Another fact is that the medical study of psychology isn't rigorous.

Since I don't particularly care about what others believe and that I don't have any awareness of anything supernatural ever affecting my life, those two facts lead me to believe that mysticism is meaningless.
 
I suspect all people everywhere know they're wrong when they disagree with me, they're just lying to annoy me.
 
Dave Rogers said:
I'm an atheist, and I do not secretly know there is a God, an Odin, a Buddha, a Hindu pantheon, a Jupiter (no, not the planet) or any other god or collection of gods you may wish to name.

Dave
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Exactly! By the same "logic" don't Christians secretly know that there is an Odin, a Hindu pantheon, a Greek pantheon, etc, etc? Why would atheists be the only ones who "must" sense deep in their heart of hearts the reality of not only the Christian god, but also all these other gods? These are gods believed in by millions of people today or in the past on the same strength of evidence as Christians believe in the New and Old Testament.

Do Christians really refuse to believe in Zeus because they don't want to take the trouble to sacrifice to Him? Or do they fear that Zeus might impregnate their daughters if they prove too beautiful?

And conversely, in their heart of hearts, are not Christians made extremely uneasy by their inevitable recognition that even within their own religion there are hundreds of sects that have very different understandings of the history, theology, and correct practice of the religion, differences that have led to fierce conflicts and which relate to the core questions of achieving salvation and becoming aligned with god's wishes? This is even ignoring the wider differences Christians have with Judaism and Islam, who believe that they "share" the same god.

Yes, either we all secretly know the truth and are pantheists. Or, as has been said, atheists one different from most theists by believing in one less god than does the theist.
 
Of course we do! But it's our own private god, and none of you nasty theists are allowed to speak with it, because it is way more awesome than anything you all ever dreamed up.

I'm not even going to mention the free toasters for secretly believing in it...
 
There's low levels of arguments and then there is "Everyone really agrees with me, they are just keeping it a secret because of reasons."
 
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The Sparrow said:
I've heard this suggested by certain members here, and of course it is one of Sye Ten Bruggengate's favorite sayings.


Discuss!


I say it is impossible for these folks to know what atheists 'secretly' believe or don't believe.
Click to expand...

I'll believe secretly in a god, any, as soon as Christian start to believe secretly in Cthulhu.


It is on the SAME level of idiotic inability to understand that other do not share belief.
 
I do have reflex baggage from my Catholic upbringing, but I don't think I would call that 'belief'. More like.....conditioning.
 
madurobob said:
Much more plausible to me. Its likely there are far more professed theists who secretly harbor deep suspicions about the existence of their chosen deity than there are atheists that secretly harbor a strong suspicion there is some deity out there. Simply due to the numbers of professed theists and atheists out there.
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I'd say even proportionally. The reason being that becoming a believer isn't much of a stigma or a psychological hurdle, while rejecting god sure is.
 
The Sparrow said:
I've heard this suggested by certain members here, and of course it is one of Sye Ten Bruggengate's favorite sayings.


Discuss!


I say it is impossible for these folks to know what atheists 'secretly' believe or don't believe.
Click to expand...

The OP plays with both 'know' and 'believe' so not sure what to make of it . . . however, if by some off-chance the concept of God has a correlate in reality, and this God is knowable by the human mind, then both believers and non believers are making a misdiagnosis.
 
I didn't get a pony one year, so I'm angry at Santa and refuse to believe in him out of spite. Does that count?
 
every time I east spaghetti, I get a guilt trip cause I secretly believe in the FSM... :(
 
I would have thought that this was such a resounding, "of course" no that no argument would be needed, at least to a sane and rational person. A rather large number of people, including some here, are atheists after having, at some time, believed in something that might well count as a god. Some, though undoubtedly not all, would be happy to have seen evidence that such a god really exists, and would believe in such a god if they had any knowledge thereof. How much easier some things would be if you could defer to a god, or just answer hard questions with "god did it." The idea presented suggests that somehow atheists are either angry at a real god, or that they have some nefarious agenda that requires them to deny the real god. Utter nonsense, narrow minded, short sighted and highly disrespectful of those who have thought hard about these things and based their conclusions on careful thought. Just plain stupid.
 
The Sparrow said:
I've heard this suggested by certain members here, and of course it is one of Sye Ten Bruggengate's favorite sayings.


Discuss!


I say it is impossible for these folks to know what atheists 'secretly' believe or don't believe.
Click to expand...

Quite true!

It is impossible to know what one may secretly may, or may not, believe about something.
 
madurobob said:
Much more plausible to me. Its likely there are far more professed theists who secretly harbor deep suspicions about the existence of their chosen deity than there are atheists that secretly harbor a strong suspicion there is some deity out there. Simply due to the numbers of professed theists and atheists out there.
Click to expand...

I know personally of two rabbis, a Catholic priest (plus a few nuns) and a Methodist minister who have told me in conversations that they don't really believe in God and see their church roles as primarily helping other people with advice, reassurance, and sympathy, rather than trying to sell them a religion per se.
 
Argumemnon said:
I'd say even proportionally. The reason being that becoming a believer isn't much of a stigma or a psychological hurdle, while rejecting god sure is.
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Absolutely. There is more social pressure put on non-believers to pretend to believe. But, I suspect thats true mostly because there are far more (professed) believers than non-believers. I doubt theists are generally more virulent in their distrust of outsiders - atheists - than atheists are. Its just that the majority tends to get away with more.

But, I think we're mostly saying the same thing, just coming at it from different directions.
 
Aepervius said:
I'll believe secretly in a god, any, as soon as Christian start to believe secretly in Cthulhu.


It is on the SAME level of idiotic inability to understand that other do not share belief.
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I'd be happy for them to just secretly believe in Jesus, and shut the **** up about it! And stop knocking on my bloody door!
 
This is all just another in the sub-genre of "Atheist are secretly lying" argumentative tropes along with all the "Last minute atheist deathbed conversions" urban legends and the forced "If a dying person wanted you to tell them they are going to heaven" trap question all predicated on the same assumption, that atheist all secretly lack conviction in their own opinions.
 
Unbeknownst to myself I believe in Leprechauns. :czwacky:

I think that's the sort of thing they are trying to say. We believe but just don't know it.
 
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asydhouse said:
I'd be happy for them to just secretly believe in Jesus, and shut the **** up about it! And stop knocking on my bloody door!
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Argumemnon said:
I'd say even proportionally. The reason being that becoming a believer isn't much of a stigma or a psychological hurdle, while rejecting god sure is.
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madurobob said:
Absolutely. There is more social pressure put on non-believers to pretend to believe.
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I'd say that depends on where you live. Depending on which study you look at the number of people in the UK who declare themselves to have no religion lies somewhere between 48.5% and 66%. No stigma or social pressure here.

If anything, the social pressure is in the opposite direction, with people who make any kind of big deal about a religious faith can be viewed as a bit weird. The most notable example being Tony Blair's spin doctor Alistair Campbell, while Blair was still in office, interrupting an interview with Blair when he was asked about his faith - declaring that they "don't do God". And Blair himself waited until he left office to convert to Catholicism, later commenting that the public perception of religion in the UK is that "Normal people aren’t supposed to 'do God'."

[edit]A couple of articles on Blair's faith and how it relates to public perception in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-as-he-spoke-of-his-faith-We-dont-do-God.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1583846/Tony-Blair-reveals-why-he-refused-to-do-God.html
 
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zooterkin said:
I'd say that was unlikely given how you framed the question. You appear to be addressing atheists, not theists.
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hmm, I'm having difficulty seeing it that way, but fair enough.
The few folks on the theist side whom I imagined might join the discussion don't seem to be the shy intimidated type who would let the wording of an OP discourage them.
And I genuinely want to hear a debate on their reasoning for making such an accusation.
 
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