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Tags donald trump , internet incidents , Trump controversies , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 7th October 2016, 01:22 PM   #1
NoahFence
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US Officially Blames Russia

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us...smtyp=cur&_r=0

Removing any shred of a doubt as to why Trump is running and what will happen.

If Trump becomes President, Putin will run America.
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Old 7th October 2016, 01:24 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us...smtyp=cur&_r=0

Removing any shred of a doubt as to why Trump is running and what will happen.

If Trump becomes President, Putin will run America.
Trump doesn't listen to his own campaign advisors when they give him sensible advice. Why do you think he would take orders from Putin?
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Old 7th October 2016, 01:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Trump doesn't listen to his own campaign advisors when they give him sensible advice. Why do you think he would take orders from Putin?
He doesn't owe his campaign advisors money by the truckload.
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Old 7th October 2016, 01:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
He doesn't owe his campaign advisors money by the truckload.
He doesn't owe Putin money by the truckload either. And even if he did, well, Trump has proven himself quite willing to default on debts. So much so that one wonders why anyone would give him money and expect anything in return.

Trump's statements about Putin are troubling, but the idea that he's actually being controlled by Putin is not grounded on anything resembling reality.
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Old 7th October 2016, 01:38 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He doesn't owe Putin money by the truckload either. And even if he did, well, Trump has proven himself quite willing to default on debts. So much so that one wonders why anyone would give him money and expect anything in return.

Trump's statements about Putin are troubling, but the idea that he's actually being controlled by Putin is not grounded on anything resembling reality.
Just for a second, entertain the notion that I'm right. There is quite a bit of evidence that points there, so it's not like I'm totally out of left field here.

Having said that, do you suppose it's a bit different, owing an architect money for your resort, than it is owing money to the despotic leader of an entire country with a nuclear arsenal and ambitions of conquest?

Donald Trump is good at owing these people money:
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Last edited by NoahFence; 7th October 2016 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 7th October 2016, 01:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Trump doesn't listen to his own campaign advisors when they give him sensible advice. Why do you think he would take orders from Putin?
Putin has him by the Sandra Bullocks.
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Old 7th October 2016, 02:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Just for a second, entertain the notion that I'm right. There is quite a bit of evidence that points there, so it's not like I'm totally out of left field here.
There is not quite a bit of evidence that Trump owes Putin a lot of money.

Quote:
Having said that, do you suppose it's a bit different, owing an architect money for your resort, than it is owing money to the despotic leader of an entire country with a nuclear arsenal and ambitions of conquest?
In this hypothetical, how exactly do you think Putin could strike at Trump? Do you think Putin would have Trump assassinated? Do you think Putin would use that nuclear weapons arsenal against Trump? What's Putin's play here? And why would whatever threats Putin could level at Trump be any different from the threats he could level at any other President?
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Old 7th October 2016, 02:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There is not quite a bit of evidence that Trump owes Putin a lot of money.
There is. Can we please just deal with reality? This article is not nothing.



Quote:
In this hypothetical, how exactly do you think Putin could strike at Trump? Do you think Putin would have Trump assassinated? Do you think Putin would use that nuclear weapons arsenal against Trump? What's Putin's play here? And why would whatever threats Putin could level at Trump be any different from the threats he could level at any other President?
You're not hearing me. Apologies.
With Donald Trump as President, Putin gets someone that he can control. Because of truckloads of money. Putin wants to take maybe another couple of chunks out of Ukraine or any other state over there, maybe a debt can be forgiven if Trump does nothing?
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Old 7th October 2016, 02:39 PM   #9
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How could Putin control Trump?

By forgiving his (alleged) debts? Trump doesn't seem to care about that.

What else is there? Be specific.
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Old 7th October 2016, 02:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How could Putin control Trump?

By forgiving his (alleged) debts? Trump doesn't seem to care about that.

What else is there? Be specific.
Well, it doesn't seem to matter now with that new tape from 2005.

But if Trump does nothing to hinder Putin's advances, and Putin forgives the debts, Trump will still be the king in his mind. Remember, we're dealing with Donald Trump. The guy is a hot mess. Who knows what goes on in that head of his?
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Old 7th October 2016, 02:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
There is. Can we please just deal with reality? This article is not nothing.
How does an article about Manfort show evidence that Trump owes Putin lot's of money?




Quote:
You're not hearing me. Apologies.
With Donald Trump as President, Putin gets someone that he can control. Because of truckloads of money.
But if there are no truckloads of money than this goes out the window.
Quote:
Putin wants to take maybe another couple of chunks out of Ukraine or any other state over there, maybe a debt can be forgiven if Trump does nothing?
This sounds like CT.
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:11 PM   #12
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Yes it does sound like CT. I'm sure if someone were watching the rise of Hitler they'd have said the same thing.

This guy is flat out unfit for the Presidency.
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
In this hypothetical, how exactly do you think Putin could strike at Trump? Do you think Putin would have Trump assassinated?
cup of polonium anyone?

sometimes it doesn't matter if someone really could or would.

the fear behind it could be enough to influence someone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison...der_Litvinenko
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Well, it doesn't seem to matter now with that new tape from 2005.

But if Trump does nothing to hinder Putin's advances, and Putin forgives the debts, Trump will still be the king in his mind. Remember, we're dealing with Donald Trump. The guy is a hot mess. Who knows what goes on in that head of his?
Ah, gotcha. This is Yet Another Very Concerned About Trump thread.
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
cup of polonium anyone?

sometimes it doesn't matter if someone really could or would.

the fear behind it could be enough to influence someone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison...der_Litvinenko
Cup of polonium is a threat to any president. There's nothing Trump-specific about it. You don't think Hillary would roll over if she was afraid of being poisoned by Putin?
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:37 PM   #16
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He wouldn't be poisoned. He'd be used.
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Cup of polonium is a threat to any president. There's nothing Trump-specific about it. You don't think Hillary would roll over if she was afraid of being poisoned by Putin?
is Russia advancing Hillary's presidential campaign?
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
is Russia advancing Hillary's presidential campaign?
Trump's.

The US has officially accused Russia of tampering with the election.
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Trump's.

The US has officially accused Russia of tampering with the election.
i know. i saw the thread title
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Old 7th October 2016, 03:57 PM   #20
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http://time.com/4496806/donald-trump...lon-fast-food/

this might be part of it
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:21 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
He wouldn't be poisoned. He'd be used.
You still haven't provided a credible inducement for compelling his cooperation.
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post
is Russia advancing Hillary's presidential campaign?
If Hillary wins, Russia won't try to manipulate her?
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:40 PM   #23
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WHat cracks me up is if a Democrat had these ties to Putin, some of the Trump defensers here would be screaming for blood.
And forget if Trump Owes Russian interests money or not, his admiration for a dictator like PUtin is not something I like to see in a President.
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Hillary wins, Russia won't try to manipulate her?
who is russia supporting at the moment? who is pushing their agenda whilst running for president?

if russia thought they had a hold on hillary they'd be pushing for her to win over the orange one
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:47 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You still haven't provided a credible inducement for compelling his cooperation.
Owing money or favors to Russian oligarchy is pretty compelling.
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Hillary wins, Russia won't try to manipulate her?
Of course they will. Who do you suppose is more pliable?
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Old 7th October 2016, 04:55 PM   #27
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Of course Trump could end the speculation by releasing his tax returns.
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Old 7th October 2016, 05:02 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Of course they will. Who do you suppose is more pliable?
Hillary. We know she's capable of making rational choices that favor her own self-interest. Make her an offer she can't refuse, and she'll take it. Make Trump an offer he can't refuse, do you seriously think he'll do the smart thing? He foolishly acts against his own self-interest al the time. I don't think owing money to Russians would trouble him much at all, or influence his decision-making in any significant way.

As for the other threats you alluded to--nuclear weapons, for example--do you really think Trump is more likely to back down from a nuclear confrontation?
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Old 7th October 2016, 05:06 PM   #29
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Seriously, the more likely scenario is that Putin will try to boss Trump around by calling in the debt, and Trump will reply with nukes.
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Old 7th October 2016, 06:26 PM   #30
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None of it matters anymore. He's not going to be President. Not after today.
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Old 7th October 2016, 06:29 PM   #31
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Trump would be more likely to sell them the Aleutian Islands than worry about pre-existing debt.
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Old 7th October 2016, 07:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Just for a second, entertain the notion that I'm right. There is quite a bit of evidence that points there, so it's not like I'm totally out of left field here.

Having said that, do you suppose it's a bit different, owing an architect money for your resort, than it is owing money to the despotic leader of an entire country with a nuclear arsenal and ambitions of conquest?

Donald Trump is good at owing these people money:

All of America is good at owing these kids money. We're up to $161,000 per taxpayer. I don't know about you, but I feel we are definitely getting our money's worth.
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Old 7th October 2016, 08:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
There is. Can we please just deal with reality? This article is not nothing.
It's not nothing, but it's also not what you claimed. You claimed that Trump owed Putin lots of money. But your link is about Manafort, not Trump, and Manafort wasn't loaned money, he was paid, which means Manfort doesn't owe anything. Such connections might incline one to look favorably on their former benefactor, and I do not deny that this is a concern, but it still isn't close to what you claimed.

Quote:
You're not hearing me. Apologies.
With Donald Trump as President, Putin gets someone that he can control. Because of truckloads of money.
Trump doesn't owe Putin any money, and money doesn't have magical powers of mind control. Money only works as either a carrot or a stick, and your claimed stick doesn't exist. As for the carrot approach (ie, bribery), why is Trump unique? Hillary may have already compromised the State department in exchange for Clinton Foundation donations.

Quote:
Putin wants to take maybe another couple of chunks out of Ukraine or any other state over there, maybe a debt can be forgiven if Trump does nothing?
Except that no such debt exists.
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Old 7th October 2016, 08:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seriously, the more likely scenario is that Putin will try to boss Trump around by calling in the debt, and Trump will reply with nukes.
No. Putin is much more intelligent than this. He'd invade a neighbor, prop up a client state, or crack down on reporters in Russia (a.k.a. murder some more of them), and avoid sanctions or other actions from the US simply by flattering Trump beforehand. Putin would call for Mexico to pay for the wall Trump wants, and call Trump a 'good, strong leader with the best class', and Trump would give him a pass on anything Trump doesn't care about, such as law, international relations, free speech and press, or words not about him.

Trump really isn't hard to manipulate.
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Old 7th October 2016, 10:09 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Of course they will. Who do you suppose is more pliable?



Hillary for certain. Trump's unpredictable, but Hillary's a lot more manageable, as long as she gets the cash up front. As a matter of fact, do we have any idea how much Russian money has been funneled, directly or indirectly, to Hillary through the Clinton Foundation already? Putin's a thug who pines for the old days of the Soviet Union, but he's not an idiot. The Clinton Foundation is an obvious in for someone as corrupt as Hillary.
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Old 8th October 2016, 05:10 AM   #36
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You think Hillary is more manageable than Trump?
Come on. Trump has already been played like a fiddle multiple times. Hillary's done it. The Mexican President did it.
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Old 8th October 2016, 01:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
You think Hillary is more manageable than Trump?
Come on. Trump has already been played like a fiddle multiple times. Hillary's done it. The Mexican President did it.
Are you claiming now that Trump owed them lots of money too?
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Old 8th October 2016, 07:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
No. Putin is much more intelligent than this. He'd invade a neighbor, prop up a client state, or crack down on reporters in Russia (a.k.a. murder some more of them), and avoid sanctions or other actions from the US simply by flattering Trump beforehand. Putin would call for Mexico to pay for the wall Trump wants, and call Trump a 'good, strong leader with the best class', and Trump would give him a pass on anything Trump doesn't care about, such as law, international relations, free speech and press, or words not about him.

Trump really isn't hard to manipulate.
If you think Putin needs a pass from you I have a long bridge to sell you ����
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Old 8th October 2016, 07:19 PM   #39
tyr_13
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Originally Posted by SashatheMagnificent View Post
If you think Putin needs a pass from you I have a long bridge to sell you ����
A pass from me? What are you talking about? I'm not hitting on him.
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Old 8th October 2016, 07:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
A pass from me? What are you talking about? I'm not hitting on him.
I was under the impression that you are US citizen. Sorry
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