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Tags donald trump , internet incidents , Trump controversies , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 6th January 2017, 04:42 AM   #241
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I didn't see this covered anywhere yet, so could someone tell me how they know the Russians hacked the DNC when they've never even looked at the DNC servers? I'd really like to understand this because I am certainly confused about it. I thought to determine if something had been hacked you had to examine the files on a server for the malware? Anybody?
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I'm pretty sure they would just need to look up the relevant logs that recorded the internet traffic to-and-from the server. That way they would be able to see who sent and received messages, if not actually what was in that those messages as well.

From what i read they got access through a phising email so it's quite possible that there wasn't any actual malware on the DNC server but rather it would've been on someones personal/work computer instead.
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Old 6th January 2017, 06:21 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
From what i read they got access through a phising email so it's quite possible that there wasn't any actual malware on the DNC server but rather it would've been on someones personal/work computer instead.

Again, the DNC and Podesta mails are two separate data sets. In the Podesta mails is an exchange where Podesta receives a phishing mail, asks his aides what to do about it, an aide replies that it is legitimate (and now claims he meant to write illegitimate ), and apparently Podesta clicked the phishing link and entered his password, which was p@ssw0rd.

That's why Assange says a 14 year-old could have "hacked" Podesta. Which doesn't mean that the phisher is the source for the data set. It just means that these people are incompetent.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:14 AM   #243
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I am thinking that Trump is about to get into some serious trouble.

Since Trump ran his election much like Nixon did in 1972, where Nixon decisively won the election, but resigned in disgrace about two and half years later due to the Watergate scandal.

In this case, it is becoming quite obvious that Russian government did indeed try to interfere with the US election via computer shenanigans, then if it can be shown that Trump was somehow in collusion with Russians and/or Putin over this issue, then Trump could soon face impeachment and a trial in the Senate.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:34 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I am thinking that Trump is about to get into some serious trouble.

Since Trump ran his election much like Nixon did in 1972, where Nixon decisively won the election, but resigned in disgrace about two and half years later due to the Watergate scandal.

In this case, it is becoming quite obvious that Russian government did indeed try to interfere with the US election via computer shenanigans, then if it can be shown that Trump was somehow in collusion with Russians and/or Putin over this issue, then Trump could soon face impeachment and a trial in the Senate.
I don't think the Republicans have the decency to impeach their president, I'm sorry to say. There are good conservatives, decent men, but they're not leading the Republicans at present. For gosh sakes, even McCain endorsed Trump. Cruz, too, not that he's on the top of my list for a principled conservative. He essentially gave the speech at the convention not because of conservative values, but because his family was insulted.

Anyway, I think that at present, the Republicans would never impeach their dear leader. In a couple of years, we'll see whether power changes.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:36 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't think the Republicans have the decency to impeach their president, I'm sorry to say. There are good conservatives, decent men, but they're not leading the Republicans at present. For gosh sakes, even McCain endorsed Trump. Cruz, too, not that he's on the top of my list for a principled conservative. He essentially gave the speech at the convention not because of conservative values, but because his family was insulted.

Anyway, I think that at present, the Republicans would never impeach their dear leader. In a couple of years, we'll see whether power changes.
If Trump's popularity nose dived, I think there are a lot of Republicans who would have no problem impeaching him. However, that is a big "if".
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:49 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Again, the DNC and Podesta mails are two separate data sets. In the Podesta mails is an exchange where Podesta receives a phishing mail, asks his aides what to do about it, an aide replies that it is legitimate (and now claims he meant to write illegitimate ), and apparently Podesta clicked the phishing link and entered his password, which was p@ssw0rd.

That's why Assange says a 14 year-old could have "hacked" Podesta. Which doesn't mean that the phisher is the source for the data set. It just means that these people are incompetent.

And btw, the Podesta mail data set isn't from Killary's cowboy server @hillaryclinton.com, but from his gmail account. So if "Putin hacked" that account, he hacked gmail.

This stuff is totally ridiculous and the freaks peddling it belong in a padded cell next to Killary, close enough to hear her snore.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:58 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
And btw, the Podesta mail data set isn't from Killary's cowboy server @hillaryclinton.com, but from his gmail account. So if "Putin hacked" that account, he hacked gmail.

This stuff is totally ridiculous and the freaks peddling it belong in a padded cell next to Killary, close enough to hear her snore.
You don't have any credibility on this subject, as the highlighted makes completely clear. If you can't understand that your account can be hacked without the entire service being hacked, then you don't understand enough to comment on what might or might not be valid arguments for or against Russian hacking.
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:07 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
You don't have any credibility on this subject, as the highlighted makes completely clear. If you can't understand that your account can be hacked without the entire service being hacked, then you don't understand enough to comment on what might or might not be valid arguments for or against Russian hacking.

"Hacking" means using a tech vulnerability to gain access. Obtaining a password by phishing is social engineering at best. Certainly nothing you need a "state actor" for, a moderately clever 14-year-old is sufficient.

Glass house. Stone.
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:47 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
And btw, the Podesta mail data set isn't from Killary's cowboy server @hillaryclinton.com, but from his gmail account. So if "Putin hacked" that account, he hacked gmail.

This stuff is totally ridiculous and the freaks peddling it belong in a padded cell next to Killary, close enough to hear her snore.

The only hacking during the election that we have absolute proof of:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hacking.jpg (36.3 KB, 8 views)
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:57 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I am thinking that Trump is about to get into some serious trouble.

Since Trump ran his election much like Nixon did in 1972, where Nixon decisively won the election, but resigned in disgrace about two and half years later due to the Watergate scandal.

In this case, it is becoming quite obvious that Russian government did indeed try to interfere with the US election via computer shenanigans, then if it can be shown that Trump was somehow in collusion with Russians and/or Putin over this issue, then Trump could soon face impeachment and a trial in the Senate.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:18 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
The only hacking during the election that we have absolute proof of:
It is good to know just what you consider to be of import.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:37 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I'm pretty sure they would just need to look up the relevant logs that recorded the internet traffic to-and-from the server. That way they would be able to see who sent and received messages, if not actually what was in that those messages as well.
But can't that be masked in various ways. What if they connect to a vpn and then the tor network? What if they set up anonymous servers in other countries and route it through there or even do it directly from there. What if they infect other computers or servers and use them to carry it out?

I'm no expert but it seems like there are ways to make it pretty difficult to tell.

I mentioned this earlier and no one cared to answer. They release a 13 page report that they claim proves it was Russia. MSM picks it up and says things like "bombshell report", and "FBI releases proof it was Russia". People come here and say "see, proof!". Did any of you read the report? It contains no proof of anything. It's just them claiming it was Russian groups x and y.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia did do it but when the intelligence community and msm lies like that they don't get to turn around and whine about people not trusting them.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:37 AM   #253
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The silly thing is that America admits it has interfered in elections in Italy in the past. America and the CIA also seem to have been behind the coup in Chile when Allende was toppled and replaced by that fascist General Pinochet, who was so admired by Mrs. Thatcher.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:47 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Russia did do it but when the intelligence community and msm lies like that they don't get to turn around and whine about people not trusting them.

And the question remains what "it" is. Hack Clinton, hack the DNC, hack Podesta's gmail account? Meddle with voting machines? Assange in the interview says that Obama uses "lawyer speak" and is "sneaky" in the non-claims he makes. Even Clapper yesterday seems to dance around any serious accusations, complains about mean RT and when Mad McCain asks him if "it" is an act of war, he says "not for me to decide". A totally bizarre spectacle.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:56 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The silly thing is that America admits it has interfered in elections in Italy in the past. America and the CIA also seem to have been behind the coup in Chile when Allende was toppled and replaced by that fascist General Pinochet, who was so admired by Mrs. Thatcher.
That was brought up yesterday in the Committee meeting. Basically, "hey guys, we do this too. We're in a glass house - put down those stones"
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Old 6th January 2017, 10:36 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The silly thing is that America admits it has interfered in elections in Italy in the past. America and the CIA also seem to have been behind the coup in Chile when Allende was toppled and replaced by that fascist General Pinochet, who was so admired by Mrs. Thatcher.
Quite true!

The USA has messed around with the politics of many nations over the years, and therefore the USA is not in any moral position to order other nations from doing what the USA has been doing for some time now.

My concern, however, is that Trump may have been in cahoots with the Russian meddling. And if so, then that could be a very serious problem for both Trump and the USA.
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Old 6th January 2017, 10:43 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Quite true!

The USA has messed around with the politics of many nations over the years, and therefore the USA is not in any moral position to order other nations from doing what the USA has been doing for some time now.

My concern, however, is that Trump may have been in cahoots with the Russian meddling. And if so, then that could be a very serious problem for both Trump and the USA.
I wouldn't say the US argument is moral or even that when the US did it that it was somehow not an act of war.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:23 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I wouldn't say the US argument is moral or even that when the US did it that it was somehow not an act of war.
Thanks much.

And considering how often you claimed that torture is legal in the USA, then I am sure that this opinions on what just defines an act of war is just as worthwhile.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:39 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Thanks much.

And considering how often you claimed that torture is legal in the USA, then I am sure that this opinions on what just defines an act of war is just as worthwhile.
I said it was Constitutional to make it legal.
I'm not making an argument here on what is an act of war. I'm saying I don't recall the US claiming their meddling was not an act of war.

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Old 6th January 2017, 11:39 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"Hacking" means using a tech vulnerability to gain access. Obtaining a password by phishing is social engineering at best. Certainly nothing you need a "state actor" for, a moderately clever 14-year-old is sufficient.

Glass house. Stone.

And you don't need to hack Google to hack an email account on Google. Your assertion is foolish. It doesn't matter if the specific case in question was even hacking or not, you made an obviously untrue statement to cast doubt on the case for Russia's involvement.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:45 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I said it was Constitutional to make it legal.
I'm not making an argument here on what is an act of war. I'm saying I don't recall the US claiming their meddling was not an act of war.
Well then, you are still wrong.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:50 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well then, you are still wrong.
You are the one that thinks the court will overturn the precedent of the head money cases. I will just leave that fact here for everyone's judgement.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:54 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You are the one that thinks the court will overturn the precedent of the head money cases. I will just leave that fact here for everyone's judgement.
Well then, you are still wrong.

I never said anything of the sort.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:02 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well then, you are still wrong.

I never said anything of the sort.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=305

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And you think the lack of preeminence of treaties is something courts might reverse?
If the court was deciding the issue of making torture legal, then "Yes!" I would definitely expect the court to rule against such a law regardless of any other previous rulings.

Just as the court did with abortion, gay marriage, civil rights, and numerous other cases.
Here is the page of the thread for everyone to view the context.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d+money&page=8
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:17 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
And you don't need to hack Google to hack an email account on Google. Your assertion is foolish. It doesn't matter if the specific case in question was even hacking or not, you made an obviously untrue statement to cast doubt on the case for Russia's involvement.

"And" you had no idea what you were talking about and now you're trying to deflect. Your post makes no sense other than giving us more insight into your cluelessness. To hack a gmail account you have to hack gmail, if you care about using proper terms which we have to do here to come near to where the stink is coming from.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:24 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"And" you had no idea what you were talking about and now you're trying to deflect. Your post makes no sense other than giving us more insight into your cluelessness. To hack a gmail account you have to hack gmail, if you care about using proper terms which we have to do here to come near to where the stink is coming from.
Kinda nitpicky, no? If I keep putting in passwords that ultimately gave me control of your account here, am I hacking ISF? No, i'm just guessing your password.

Hacking ISF would, for instance, give me control of the site, along with any databases it contains.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:43 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Kinda nitpicky, no? If I keep putting in passwords that ultimately gave me control of your account here, am I hacking ISF? No, i'm just guessing your password.

Hacking ISF would, for instance, give me control of the site, along with any databases it contains.

That's exactly my point. You wouldn't be hacking ISF by guessing my password (try "put1n" ) or making me give it to you with some clever trick. That's not hacking, and that's not something you need huge resources to do.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:57 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"And" you had no idea what you were talking about and now you're trying to deflect. Your post makes no sense other than giving us more insight into your cluelessness. To hack a gmail account you have to hack gmail, if you care about using proper terms which we have to do here to come near to where the stink is coming from.
No you don't. You're repeating your same mistake.

People say all the time, 'my account got hacked', without the hack that lets the hacker access the account being directed against the account provider or the account itself. Someone installs a keystroke logger on your machine using a hack, they then use that to get your gmail account password. Congratulations, your gmail has been hacked without gmail being hacked. This also applies to bank accounts. Those get 'hacked' all the time by hacking other systems that contain the information, not necessarily the bank itself. They've used a hack to access the account, even though they don't have to directly hack the account. It's still a 'hack' or gaining unauthorized access.

I know a bunch of people in the community get all up in arms about 'that's not a hack!', and sometimes they're even right, but the most narrow definitions are not how the word is used even among hackers. Did you use a workaround or trick to gain unauthorized access? That's a hack. Doing something with a system that you're not supposed to be able to do is a hack.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:01 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
People say all the time

I'm sure they are. Now let that nonsense go.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:14 PM   #270
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Here's an interesting read from yesterday. If you don't know who William BinneyWP is, look him up. There are more relevant paragraphs to the topic in the article than what follows, but while we were at it...

Originally Posted by William Binney, Ray McGovern, Baltimore Sun
[...] With respect to the alleged interference by Russia and WikiLeaks in the U.S. election, it is a major mystery why U.S. intelligence feels it must rely on "circumstantial evidence," when it has NSA's vacuum cleaner sucking up hard evidence galore. What we know of NSA's capabilities shows that the email disclosures were from leaking, not hacking.

Here's the difference:

Hack: When someone in a remote location electronically penetrates operating systems, firewalls or other cyber-protection systems and then extracts data. Our own considerable experience, plus the rich detail revealed by Edward Snowden, persuades us that, with NSA's formidable trace capability, it can identify both sender and recipient of any and all data crossing the network.

Leak: When someone physically takes data out of an organization — on a thumb drive, for example — and gives it to someone else, as Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning did. Leaking is the only way such data can be copied and removed with no electronic trace.

Because NSA can trace exactly where and how any "hacked" emails from the Democratic National Committee or other servers were routed through the network, it is puzzling why NSA cannot produce hard evidence implicating the Russian government and WikiLeaks. Unless we are dealing with a leak from an insider, not a hack, as other reporting suggests. From a technical perspective alone, we are convinced that this is what happened. [...]

An important fact to consider for people unsure how to read this affair. If "hacks" happened on any US server in recent years, the NSA has the data and doesn't have to perform silly dances around the topic.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:24 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Here's an interesting read from yesterday. If you don't know who William BinneyWP is, look him up. There are more relevant paragraphs to the topic in the article than what follows, but while we were at it...




An important fact to consider for people unsure how to read this affair. If "hacks" happened on any US server in recent years, the NSA has the data and doesn't have to perform silly dances around the topic.
My first guess would be that like all things government, the NSA overpromised and under delivered their capabilities.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:25 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
My first guess would be that like all things government, the NSA overpromised and under delivered their capabilities.

You never payed close attention to the Snowden leaks, did you?
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:26 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't think the Republicans have the decency to impeach their president, I'm sorry to say.
I wouldn't go by who eventually endorsed Trump. Pence endorsed Trump in the biggest possible way, and he's probably the preferred choice of many House Republicans.

On another issue entirely, is "phishing" hacking? Yes, of a sort. A pretty embarrassing sort if you are Podesta, or the person who called the phishing email "legitimate" instead of illegitimate.

But in any case ... Trump egged them on, Trump has pissed off the U.S. intelligence community and if I were a spy agency I would make sure to assign people to Trump, because it's really the only way to know what's going on. I don't know much about how the president, historically, has interacted with intelligence agencies. I don't recall any being as publicly dismissive as Trump has been but there are shades of gray I might not be aware of.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:39 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
An important fact to consider for people unsure how to read this affair. If "hacks" happened on any US server in recent years, the NSA has the data and doesn't have to perform silly dances around the topic.
Did Putin tell you what evidence NSA has? Wanna share? 'Cause they seem to be saying they've got the data. You're the one dancing like nobody's watching, CE.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:40 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
On another issue entirely, is "phishing" hacking? Yes, of a sort. A pretty embarrassing sort if you are Podesta, or the person who called the phishing email "legitimate" instead of illegitimate.

Again, of course in general there are broader definitions of "hacking", but they make no sense in context here given that we are to believe (through suggestions in a whole lot of fog) that sophisticated measures only a state actor could accomplish were taken to influence the election. That's what we are talking about, isn't it? (I just realize that the thread title doesn't say anything about the nature of "it", which is kinda interesting).
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:42 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Did Putin tell you what evidence NSA has?

No, Snowden did.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:44 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You never payed close attention to the Snowden leaks, did you?
I did. I have a fair amount of experience with government programs under performing. I wouldn't be surprised if there were massive holes in their data collection from the various mistakes and failures that just crop up.

For example, we have 10 aircraft carriers. Every single one of them is in port right now. That seemed like the exact opposite outcome expected by a fleet of 10. But here we are.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:49 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
No, Snowden did.
Really? That's amazing; wanna give us the Readers Digest version?
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:55 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I did. I have a fair amount of experience with government programs under performing. I wouldn't be surprised if there were massive holes in their data collection from the various mistakes and failures that just crop up.

If you have a vacuum cleaner you don't need to worry about minor cockroaches infesting the carpet. And if you can't create the vacuum everywhere, you wouldn't leave out the regions where you plan to eat from. Silly.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For example, we have 10 aircraft carriers. Every single one of them is in port right now. That seemed like the exact opposite outcome expected by a fleet of 10. But here we are.

That's an interesting topic, indeed. Maybe more fitting to the Cold War thread or something. Admiral Kuznetsov is going home as well.
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:30 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
If you have a vacuum cleaner you don't need to worry about minor cockroaches infesting the carpet. And if you can't create the vacuum everywhere, you wouldn't leave out the regions where you plan to eat from. Silly.
.
Vacuums break, have operator error, etc. Government decision making silly? That is a common refrain.
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