Southern Poverty Law Center's Anti-Muslim Extremists: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Maajid Nawaz

Tsukasa Buddha

Other (please write in)
Tsukasa Buddha
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
15,302
There have always been questions regarding SPLC's hate lists, but this seems interesting.

In response to the high levels of anti-Muslim extremists regularly provided a platform in the media and in the public eye, the Southern Poverty Law Center has partnered with Media Matters for America, ReThink Media and the Center for New Community to provide a resource on anti-Muslim public figures for reporters and media professionals.

...

“We wrote this manual because Muslims in America continue to be vilified by a network of anti-Muslim extremists spreading baseless and damaging lies and we think the media can play a role in helping to stop it,” said Heidi Beirich, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center.

A shocking number of anti-Muslim, self-described “experts” are seen regularly in the media, where they spread falsehoods that too often go uncontested. Their rhetoric has toxic consequences, from promoting xenophobia, to poisoning democratic debate, to inspiring hate violence.

...

Other anti-Muslim extremists profiled are Ann Corcoran, Steven Emerson, Pamela Geller, John Guandolo, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, David Horowitz, Robert Muise, Maajid Nawaz, Daniel Pipes, Walid Shoebat, Robert Spencer and David Yerushalmi.
Click to expand...

Linky.

I am not well read on these things, but I do recognize some of these names. A number of them have responded.

According to the non-Muslims at the Southern Poverty Law Center, it's normal for Muslims who are "anti-Muslim extremists" like me (wtf?!) to:

1) Argue for a motion that Islam is a religion of peace at IQ2 in New York

2) Host Morgan Freeman in a mosque

3) Battle racist callers who want mass deportations via national radio

4) Defend Muslims from anti-Muslim bigots who think we Muslims are "taking over" on national radio

5) Have the support of the UK's only 'watchdog for anti-Muslim hate', Tell Mama UK

Despite all that and more, according to a bunch of 1st world American non-Muslim "progressives", I - a liberal reforming Muslim - am an anti-Muslim extremist?
Click to expand...

Linky.
 
The way to show the world that your religion is one of peace is obviously to call everyone who disagrees an *******...
 
It's sometimes hard to know what the SPLC means by "extremist."

I recognize the name Pamela Geller though. She's definitely anti-something. But whether it's all Muslims or just the Jihadi wing, I can't tell.

What am I to make of an extremist who is anti-other-extremists?

This might help (crank up that volume):
 
What a load of toss. When I clicked the link to read about the extremists I expect a list of terrorists and thugs, or at the very least people who call for violence and illegal acts against Muslims.

What do we get?

Maajid Nawaz
Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Extremists? Utter nonsense.

Frank Gaffney
Pamela Geller
Daniel Pipes
Walid Shoebat
Robert Spencer

Outspoken and frequently bizarre in their statements, but extremists? Don't make me laugh.

I don't know much about the other names but it seems reasonable to assume they're no more extremist than their colleagues.

I have never heard of the SPLC but from that article it's clear they are more worthy of the term 'extremist' than the people they accuse, if only by their determination to deny people their freedom of speech.
 
baron said:
What a load of toss. When I clicked the link to read about the extremists I expect a list of terrorists and thugs, or at the very least people who call for violence and illegal acts against Muslims.

What do we get?

Maajid Nawaz
Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Extremists? Utter nonsense.

Frank Gaffney
Pamela Geller
Daniel Pipes
Walid Shoebat
Robert Spencer

Outspoken and frequently bizarre in their statements, but extremists? Don't make me laugh.

I don't know much about the other names but it seems reasonable to assume they're no more extremist than their colleagues.

I have never heard of the SPLC but from that article it's clear they are more worthy of the term 'extremist' than the people they accuse, if only by their determination to deny people their freedom of speech.
Click to expand...
No, the SPLC does not deny anyone their vaunted freedom of speech. They do have the liberty, by virtue of that same freedom of speech, to call these people out on hate speech.

If you think that the word "extremist" conjures up someone who commits violence themselves, I'm not going to argue with you about that. It's your language, you win. :)

But yes, these people - at least the ones I'm knowledgeable with - foster with their continuous utterances that all Islam is evil a culture of hate against any and all Muslims. I agree with that. That holds, IMHO, also for Ayaan Hirsi Magan (let's use her proper legal name); I hadn't heard of Nawaz so I can't judge.

For Geller and Shoebat I wouldn't use the word "bizarre" so much as "unhinged". :)
 
ddt said:
No, the SPLC does not deny anyone their vaunted freedom of speech.
Click to expand...

That's because they don't have the power. When one party attempts to silence another instead of engage with their argument, you know they've lost the debate.

ddt said:
They do have the liberty, by virtue of that same freedom of speech, to call these people out on hate speech.
Click to expand...

Then at best they are hypocrites and their narrative is no less hate-filled and incendiary than the people they vilify.

ddt said:
If you think that the word "extremist" conjures up someone who commits violence themselves, I'm not going to argue with you about that. It's your language, you win. :)
Click to expand...

Not only commits, but advocates. And not just violence, rather any significant infringement of human rights. The fact that the likes of Maajid Nawaz is included shows they class everybody who is not full of praise for Islam as an extremist.

For the sake of argument let's say these people are extremists. Do you think, then, that it's reasonable to use the same word for Muslim extremists? Why is it that a non-Muslim is classed as an extremist for criticising Islam, whereas for a Muslim to be worthy of the term they need to blow up a tube train or rape a school full of girls or put 250 children into an industrial bread-maker to be slowly crushed and baked to death?

ddt said:
But yes, these people - at least the ones I'm knowledgeable with - foster with their continuous utterances that all Islam is evil a culture of hate against any and all Muslims. I agree with that.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's entirely true. I've heard most of these people make clear distinctions between Muslims and Islam. Extremism cannot be said to be strong criticism of a culture or ideology because by that notion, 99% of the population is extreme.

ddt said:
That holds, IMHO, also for Ayaan Hirsi Magan (let's use her proper legal name); I hadn't heard of Nawaz so I can't judge.

For Geller and Shoebat I wouldn't use the word "bizarre" so much as "unhinged". :)
Click to expand...

That's also a good word, but 'extremist' not so much.
 
Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Ali is her proper legal surname ;)) is no more an "extremist" than Richard Dawkins is or Christopher Hitchens was.

Call her "fundamentalist", perhaps "radical". That would be radical atheism, which holds that Islam is bad because it is untrue and makes people do immoral things.

In that exact sense am I a radical fundamentalist atheist. Calling me an "extremist" would be pure slur.

Ali's latest book, Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now (2015) isn't even radical any longer, she calls for a reformation and moderation of Islam, not its end.
 
Oystein said:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Ali is her proper legal surname ;)) is no more an "extremist" than Richard Dawkins is or Christopher Hitchens was.

Call her "fundamentalist", perhaps "radical". That would be radical atheism, which holds that Islam is bad because it is untrue and makes people do immoral things.

In that exact sense am I a radical fundamentalist atheist. Calling me an "extremist" would be pure slur.

Ali's latest book, Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now (2015) isn't even radical any longer, she calls for a reformation and moderation of Islam, not its end.
Click to expand...
That was the name that stood out for me because I've seen her many times on television and knew about her and her views. She always comes across as very knowledgeable and articulate. She's also not afraid to stand her ground which some may see as being forthright. She renounced islam and religion in 2002. Incidentally that makes her an apostate which is punishable by death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

Calling her an extremist is simply a smear. It's the same tactic as calling someone racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc in order to stifle debate.
 
Sunstealer said:
That was the name that stood out for me because I've seen her many times on television and knew about her and her views. She always comes across as very knowledgeable and articulate. She's also not afraid to stand her ground which some may see as being forthright. She renounced islam and religion in 2002. Incidentally that makes her an apostate which is punishable by death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

Calling her an extremist is simply a smear. It's the same tactic as calling someone racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc in order to stifle debate.
Click to expand...

A point often made by Maajid Nawaz, who is one of the very few genuinely liberal, reformist high profile Muslims. Of course he was an extremist once - a recruiter for an Islamic terror group - but he put all that behind him without relinquishing his faith and works to reform Islam through debate and positive action. If all Muslims were like Nawaz the world would be a wholly different place.
 
I think SPLC has made a very good job here. Mixing someone like Ayaan Hirso Ali with other people who look much more extremist than she is not a good idea.

I have the feeling that for them nobody is allowed to critizise radical islam anymore, a position they would not take with respect to people who critizise christian fundamentalism.

I do not know Maajid Nawaz very weel but when reading his pro domo pleading I got the feeling he seemed a rather moderate person : http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...eing-smeared-as-an-anti-muslim-extremist.html

By the way not everybody share's SPLC's views on Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Maajid Amaz :

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-and-maajid-nawaz-are-anti-muslim-extremists/

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2016/bad-move-splc/
 
Last edited:
Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now[/URL] (2015) isn't even radical any longer, she calls for a reformation and moderation of Islam, not its end.
Click to expand...
I hope she properly footnotes Bernard Lewis' books and articles arguing the same point from about a decade ago.
 
Degeneve said:
I think SPLC has made a very good job here. Mixing someone like Ayaan Hirso Ali with other people who look much more extremist than she is not a good idea.

I have the feeling that for them nobody is allowed to critizise radical islam anymore, a position they would not take with respect to people who critizise christian fundamentalism.

I do not know Maajid Nawaz very weel but when reading his pro domo pleading I got the feeling he seemed a rather moderate person : http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...eing-smeared-as-an-anti-muslim-extremist.html

By the way not everybody share's SPLC's views on Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Maajid Amaz :

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-and-maajid-nawaz-are-anti-muslim-extremists/

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2016/bad-move-splc/
Click to expand...

SPLC does a lot of good work, but they blew it big time on this one.
 
marplots said:
It's sometimes hard to know what the SPLC means by "extremist."

I recognize the name Pamela Geller though. She's definitely anti-something. But whether it's all Muslims or just the Jihadi wing, I can't tell.

What am I to make of an extremist who is anti-other-extremists?

This might help (crank up that volume):
Click to expand...

Pam Geller claims not to be anti Muslim,just anti Jihadi,but she considers almost all Muslims to be either Jihadis or Apologists/Enablers for Jihadis, so it is safe to say the Geller paints with a very,very, broad brush.
 
And a lot of people (like me) normally sympathetic to the SPLC are giving them hell on this one.
 
Oystein said:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Ali is her proper legal surname ;)) is no more an "extremist" than Richard Dawkins is or Christopher Hitchens was.

Call her "fundamentalist", perhaps "radical". That would be radical atheism, which holds that Islam is bad because it is untrue and makes people do immoral things.

In that exact sense am I a radical fundamentalist atheist. Calling me an "extremist" would be pure slur.

Ali's latest book, Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now (2015) isn't even radical any longer, she calls for a reformation and moderation of Islam, not its end.
Click to expand...

Might as well add Sam Harris to this list also. Religion is like politics or ideology, they are just ideas and deserve no special treatment from ridicule or derision.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now[/url] (2015) isn't even radical any longer, she calls for a reformation and moderation of Islam, not its end.
Click to expand...
I hope she properly footnotes Bernard Lewis' books and articles arguing the same point from about a decade ago.
Click to expand...


Definitely.

Because that was, of course, the very first time in history such a concept was ever introduced.
 
dudalb said:
And a lot of people (like me) normally sympathetic to the SPLC are giving them hell on this one.
Click to expand...

The old joke about how when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail seems appropriate here. The SPLC has a vested interest in coming up with new hate groups all the time, whether or not that is accurate. A few years back they added We Are Change, a silly group of 9-11 Truthers and anti-Federal Reserve nuts to their list. I'm not sympathetic to either of their causes, but they are harmless--they even cite adherence to Ghandi's methods as one of their touchstones.
 
dudalb said:
And a lot of people (like me) normally sympathetic to the SPLC are giving them hell on this one.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you can expect this to be the SPLC norm from now on. This is how organizations fail. They have become a caricature of themselves, and are unlikely to be able to correct the problem. It is now self-reinforcing.
 
Oystein said:
Call her "fundamentalist", perhaps "radical". That would be radical atheism, which holds that Islam is bad because it is untrue and makes people do immoral things.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to nitpick language, here, but what about the above is "radical?" This appears to be a fair, level-headed conclusion on the subject.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom