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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:21 PM   #201
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
When do you plan to start? You don't seem to understand what it is.
Originally Posted by mijopaalmc View Post
How can you even hope to do that when you obviously don't even understand what one is?
Oh look. Couple of skeptics.

Hee hee!
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:23 PM   #202
mijopaalmc
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh look. Couple of skeptics.

Hee hee!
You have demonstrated you can't properly apply the definition. How can you educate anyone on a tu quoque when you consistently misappropriation the definition?
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:23 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh look. Couple of skeptics.

Hee hee!
Oh look. A classic example of illusory superiority.

At least you're educating people on what that is.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:27 PM   #204
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by mijopaalmc View Post
You have demonstrated you can't properly apply the definition. How can you educate anyone on a tu quoque when toy consistently misappropriation the definition?
Oh gee, another argument by assertion. Yawn.

"Toy consistently misappropriation."

Solid argument tho

Toy consistently the definition!

Hee hee!
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:29 PM   #205
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Illusory superiority

I post illusory superiority!

Of thee I sing, illusory superiority!

I got nothing post illusory superiority!
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:29 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh gee, another argument by assertion.
...he says on the sixth page of a thread containing detailed explanations he's ignored, showing repeatedly and thoroughly how he's wrong.

Last edited by JayUtah; 22nd December 2016 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:30 PM   #207
mijopaalmc
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh gee, another argument by assertion. Yawn.

"Toy consistently misappropriation."

Solid argument tho

Toy consistently the definition!

Hee hee!
Ahhh...you focus on irrelevance yet again.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:34 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
,,,he says on the sixth page of a thread containing detailed explanations he's ignored, showing repeatedly and thoroughly how he's wrong.
Oh... Did you post a definition?

I guess no because we know that the second you do the big dog will be all over it.

Hee hee! The big dog gonna howl!

Post the definition, I hunger.

HUNGER
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:35 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by mijopaalmc View Post
Ahhh...you focus on irrelevance yet again.
Toy consistently?
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:36 PM   #210
mijopaalmc
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh... Did you post a definition?

I guess no because we know that the second you do the big dog will be all over it.

Hee hee! The big dog gonna howl!

Post the definition, I hunger.

HUNGER
He said that he agreed with your definition. He just disagreed with the way that you were applying it.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:37 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh... Did you post a definition?
Of course not. No need to.

But if you hunger to respond to posts, I suggest you go back and look at the dozens of my posts that you've completely ignored in this thread. Start anywhere. No, really.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:37 PM   #212
mijopaalmc
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Toy consistently?
Where did I say that?
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:39 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by mijopaalmc View Post
He said that he agreed with your definition. He just disagreed with the way that you were applying it.
Sooner or later, people on the losing end of a debate contrive some ego-soothing rationale for not having to read or respond to arguments they can't address. I guess this is his.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:44 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Of course not. No need to.

But if you hunger to respond to posts, I suggest you go back and look at the dozens of my posts that you've completely ignored in this thread. Start anywhere. No, really.
No need to post the definition!

Fantastic.

You know as soon as you do I will absolutely own any claim that the post in question is not a tu quoque right?

I am just waiting for you to post a definition so I can use your definition to destroy the assertion that it was not a tu quoque fallacy. I hunger.

Post it. Oh god post your definition. I hunger.

Licks chops waiting.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:47 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
No need to post the definition!
That's right. I'm not sure where you picked up the notion that I thought some new definition was needed. That's your little distraactionary obsession, and I have nothing to do with it. But by all means keep demonstrating how you can't address anything I have said to you.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:52 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
That's right. I'm not sure where you picked up the notion that I thought some new definition was needed. That's your little distraactionary obsession, and I have nothing to do with it. But by all means keep demonstrating how you can't address anything I have said to you.
Just post your definition... I hunger....

Post anything about a definition of a tu quoque fallacy.

I want to see your definition, I hunger for it. I want you to post it, I will take your definition and I will consume it and compare it to the claim in question.

I hunger.

Hunger.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:53 PM   #217
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Just post your definition... I hunger....
Then you should be able to link to the post where I said a new one was needed. Go ahead.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:04 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Then you should be able to link to the post where I said a new one was needed. Go ahead.
I agree just post the "new one" and you will see the finest example of a skeptic in action.

HUNGER.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:07 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I agree just post the "new one" and you will see the finest example of a skeptic in action.

HUNGER.
It's your burden of proof to demonstrate where they said they needed a new definition.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:08 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I agree just post the "new one" and you will see the finest example of a skeptic in action.
No link, eh? That's because there isn't one. But here's a link to where you came up with the idea of me providing an "alternate definition." That idea has never been in anyone's head but yours, and now you're just frankly obsessing over it. Now that we've cleared that up, perhaps you'd like to address the many explanations provided by your critics.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:22 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Illusory superiority

I post illusory superiority!

Of thee I sing, illusory superiority!

I got nothing post illusory superiority!
Thank you for proving my point.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:33 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No link, eh? That's because there isn't one. But here's a link to where you came up with the idea of me providing an "alternate definition." That idea has never been in anyone's head but yours, and now you're just frankly obsessing over it. Now that we've cleared that up, perhaps you'd like to address the many explanations provided by your critics.
Oh man, I thought you had posted a definition. I hit that link and I started salivating.

I hungered.

Post a definition and see the big dog feed...

Do it. So hungry.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:35 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh man, I thought you had posted a definition. I hit that link and I started salivating.
Let me know when you're finished playing games so we can get back to discussing your errant diagnosis.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:56 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Let me know when you're finished playing games so we can get back to discussing your errant diagnosis.
Let me know when you are going to post a definition

Because that is going to be the be all and end all.

Oh yeah, welcome to flavor country!
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Old 22nd December 2016, 11:10 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Let me know when you are going to post a definition
That would be never. As I documented, that's your red herring. It has nothing to do with me. I would ask if you plan to address any of your critics, but I don't think I have to.

What is your "argument" now? Apparently you expect me to present some claim you've scripted for me, so that you can "tear into it" like a mad dog and vindicate yourself. At this point it's clear that whatever vestige of this debate remains, you're simply playing both sides of it out in your imagination and completely ignoring reality. And you seem determined to cling to this fantasy until your critics get bored with your delusion and wander off.

Quote:
Oh yeah, welcome to flavor country!
If all you have to contribute is this continued incoherent babble, I guess we're done here.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 04:36 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
That would be never. As I documented, that's your red herring. It has nothing to do with me. I would ask if you plan to address any of your critics, but I don't think I have to.

What is your "argument" now? Apparently you expect me to present some claim you've scripted for me, so that you can "tear into it" like a mad dog and vindicate yourself. At this point it's clear that whatever vestige of this debate remains, you're simply playing both sides of it out in your imagination and completely ignoring reality. And you seem determined to cling to this fantasy until your critics get bored with your delusion and wander off.



If all you have to contribute is this continued incoherent babble, I guess we're done here.
Should have been done pages ago. It is clear that this was never a proper argument, aimed at getting consensus on the truth. Oh, one side provided clear arguments, but the other seemed to be focused on never admitting defeat, regardless of the actual facts.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 05:41 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh man, I thought you had posted a definition. I hit that link and I started salivating.

I hungered.

Post a definition and see the big dog feed...

Do it. So hungry.


Erm, how old are you?


Also, when was the last time you were wrong?
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Old 23rd December 2016, 07:27 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Should have been done pages ago. It is clear that this was never a proper argument, aimed at getting consensus on the truth. Oh, one side provided clear arguments, but the other seemed to be focused on never admitting defeat, regardless of the actual facts.
Heck, in the thread this was based on, The Big Dog even started to engage on the premise of hypocrisy, exempting himself from the charge on the basis that he thought that both Clinton and Powell should be punished for their email transgressions. I asked him if he thought Bush/Cheney and Trump, email sinners all, should be included. He never responded to that question. Instead, he kept mutating what I was saying into a series of strawmen, beating the stuffing out of them, and doing victory dances.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 07:44 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Heck, in the thread this was based on, The Big Dog even started to engage on the premise of hypocrisy, exempting himself from the charge on the basis that he thought that both Clinton and Powell should be punished for their email transgressions. I asked him if he thought Bush/Cheney and Trump, email sinners all, should be included. He never responded to that question. Instead, he kept mutating what I was saying into a series of strawmen, beating the stuffing out of them, and doing victory dances.

I have an impression he's young and has just found out about these interesting fallacy things and uses them to browbeat others who he thinks aren't as smart as him.

There's a particular type of pseudo-intellectual argument/discussion that relies on strawman and verbal legerdemain and bait and switch that works really well (if one's intention is to win) verbally but falls to pieces completely in text where it's easy to go back and point out what the actual arguments posited were.
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 08:04 AM   #230
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If he has kids old enough to spot him while lifting, he's probably not that young.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 08:35 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
If he has kids old enough to spot him while lifting, he's probably not that young.

Good point, well made. I'm feeling less charitable now.
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 08:42 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
That would be never. As I documented, that's your red herring. It has nothing to do with me. I would ask if you plan to address any of your critics, but I don't think I have to.

What is your "argument" now? Apparently you expect me to present some claim you've scripted for me, so that you can "tear into it" like a mad dog and vindicate yourself. At this point it's clear that whatever vestige of this debate remains, you're simply playing both sides of it out in your imagination and completely ignoring reality. And you seem determined to cling to this fantasy until your critics get bored with your delusion and wander off.

If all you have to contribute is this continued incoherent babble, I guess we're done here.
In a thread about tu quoque, you claim that providing a definition of tu quoque is a "red herring."

Dios Mio.

Well, one of us is done.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 08:47 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Should have been done pages ago. It is clear that this was never a proper argument, aimed at getting consensus on the truth. Oh, one side provided clear arguments, but the other seemed to be focused on never admitting defeat, regardless of the actual facts.
That is probably true, but I tried to rescue the thread by providing the actual tu quoque in context, a definition and some explanation only to be met with personal attacks and blatant attempts to derail the thread, which, day that ends in y, ya know?

Right now the very best reason I have been provided why it wasn't a tu quoque was that it was merely an insult, which why bother?
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Old 23rd December 2016, 08:51 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Heck, in the thread this was based on, The Big Dog even started to engage on the premise of hypocrisy, exempting himself from the charge on the basis that he thought that both Clinton and Powell should be punished for their email transgressions. I asked him if he thought Bush/Cheney and Trump, email sinners all, should be included. He never responded to that question. Instead, he kept mutating what I was saying into a series of strawmen, beating the stuffing out of them, and doing victory dances.
That actually highlights the fact that it was a tu quoque folks! The thread was NOT about Bush/Cheney's email shenanigans and well whatever it was you claimed Trump's company did.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 09:02 AM   #235
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I am only dropping into this thread to note:

1. The issue of logical fallacies appears to be an important one for TBD (previously known as 16.5, right?) and this thread is by no means the only time that TBD has labelled a post as a logical fallacy. Unfortunately these fallacy labels almost inevitably have been based on a novel creation ("The rule of so") or on a misapplication/misunderstanding of an established logical fallacy. As has happened here.

2. This accusation of a logical fallacy is usually maintained over many pages without providing evidence to the contrary or addressing the arguments of the other posters (interspersed by periodic declarations of superior knowledge and triumphs of victory). As has happened here.

3. Therefore don't expect this thread to differ much from these prior threads.

Embarrassingly, I must admit that this pattern once irritated me. But then I remembered why most people come to ISF- to discuss issues honestly and to learn more from others. Assuming that TBD shares this goal (which no doubt is easily confirmed by examining his posting style, avatars, etc.) it struck me that becoming irritated would serve no useful function to me and would only be a huge disappointment to TBD. Thinking in this way has enabled me to now find these exchanges both educational and amusing. Particularly the latter. Reading this thread has become a stocking stuffer for my pre-holiday celebration!
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Old 23rd December 2016, 09:17 AM   #236
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I am only dropping into this thread to note:

1. The issue of logical fallacies appears to be an important one for TBD (previously known as 16.5, right?) and this thread is by no means the only time that TBD has labelled a post as a logical fallacy. Unfortunately these fallacy labels almost inevitably have been based on a novel creation ("The rule of so") or on a misapplication/misunderstanding of an established logical fallacy. As has happened here.

2. This accusation of a logical fallacy is usually maintained over many pages without providing evidence to the contrary or addressing the arguments of the other posters (interspersed by periodic declarations of superior knowledge and triumphs of victory). As has happened here.

3. Therefore don't expect this thread to differ much from these prior threads.

Embarrassingly, I must admit that this pattern once irritated me. But then I remembered why most people come to ISF- to discuss issues honestly and to learn more from others. Assuming that TBD shares this goal (which no doubt is easily confirmed by examining his posting style, avatars, etc.) it struck me that becoming irritated would serve no useful function to me and would only be a huge disappointment to TBD. Thinking in this way has enabled me to now find these exchanges both educational and amusing. Particularly the latter. Reading this thread has become a stocking stuffer for my pre-holiday celebration!
You in the right thread?

Hey look, yet another post declaring I am wrong based on nothing and instead personalizing the argument.

Put that post in the win column for me.

Fantastic!
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With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations
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Old 23rd December 2016, 09:19 AM   #237
3point14
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You in the right thread?

Hey look, yet another post declaring I am wrong based on nothing and instead personalizing the argument.

Put that post in the win column for me.

Fantastic!

No, really, have you ever been wrong?
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 09:24 AM   #238
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You in the right thread?

Hey look, yet another post declaring I am wrong based on nothing and instead personalizing the argument.

Put that post in the win column for me.

Fantastic!
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
No, really, have you ever been wrong?
asked and answered.
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With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations
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Old 23rd December 2016, 09:25 AM   #239
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That is probably true, but I tried to rescue the thread by providing the actual tu quoque in context, a definition and some explanation only to be met with personal attacks and blatant attempts to derail the thread, which, day that ends in y, ya know?

Right now the very best reason I have been provided why it wasn't a tu quoque was that it was merely an insult, which why bother?
You continue to exhibit illusory Superiority. I applaud you for the dedication to your craft. Too bad you don't have an argument. When you accept the facts, and admit defeat, I'll drop the accusation.
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Old 23rd December 2016, 09:29 AM   #240
3point14
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
asked and answered.
I missed it, can I get a post number?
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
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