|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
24th March 2017, 12:06 AM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
Two black holes merge kick third out of ball park
Quote:
Astronomers have uncovered a supermassive black hole that has been propelled out of the center of a distant galaxy by what could be the awesome power of gravitational waves. Though there have been several other suspected, similarly booted black holes elsewhere, none has been confirmed so far. Astronomers think this object, detected by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope, is a very strong case. Weighing more than 1 billion suns, the rogue black hole is the most massive black hole ever detected to have been kicked out of its central home. Researchers estimate that it took the equivalent energy of 100 million supernovas exploding simultaneously to jettison the black hole. The most plausible explanation for this propulsive energy is that the monster object was given a kick by gravitational waves unleashed by the merger of two hefty black holes at the center of the host galaxy. https://phys.org/news/2017-03-hubble...-galactic.html ............................................... Beyond my pay grade to help much here, but I thought it an interesting proposition. 100 million supernovae? And that is only one tiny neck of thye woods. |
24th March 2017, 03:35 AM | #2 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
Mine too, and incomprehensible power and size to my tiny brain.
|
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
24th March 2017, 04:01 AM | #3 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 28,091
|
I always thought that if three objects are orbiting each other there is always a risk of two of them ejecting the third from the system. When people discuss this they generally are talking about planets, but I suppose black holes are just bigger versions.
|
__________________
This signature is for rent. |
|
24th March 2017, 04:06 AM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
|
|
24th March 2017, 04:09 AM | #5 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 17,617
|
How long until this news morphs into Planet X is a supermassive BH ejected by Ancient Aliens and which is heading for Earth on a surf board, if only NASA scientists stopped lying?
|
24th March 2017, 04:13 AM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
24th March 2017, 07:25 AM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
|
Weight and mass are not the same
.. |
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
|
24th March 2017, 08:46 AM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 16,039
|
It's also true that the energy of a supernova is present in the star that is going nova. The issue of course is that the supernova may shine with the luminosity of an entire galaxy but it does so for a much shorter time span than does a galaxy. The lifetime of stars ranges from millions to trillions of years (I think that's right).
Furthermore the amount of a star's total energy (as measured by it's mass) which is converted to radiation is only a small percentage. So clearly the amount of energy present in a galaxy is greater than 100 million supernovae, and thus, while the event in question is spectacular, it's not ruled out by the idea that a galaxy wouldn't contain that much energy. |
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
|
24th March 2017, 11:06 AM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
Does phys.org always use such sensationalist language in its articles? They might as well be talking about Nibiru, the way that quote reads.
|
24th March 2017, 11:39 AM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
|
Because you're mixing energy and power. Stick with just energy. From here:
"A supernova is an explosion of a massive supergiant star. It may shine with the brightness of 10 billion suns! The total energy output may be 1044 joules, as much as the total output of the sun during its 10 billion year lifetime." So a supernova might burn off energy (not power) equivalent to our sun's normal burning process, which only accounts for a fraction of its rest mass energy. A supermassive black hole can be 108 times the mass of our sun, or about 100 million times as much. All you need is for the black hole to be able to expend a comparable part of its rest mass in some energy release process, and you can get those kinds of results. So is there any available process? Why yes, there is. Black hole mergers. The merger recently observed by LIGO was between a 36 stellar mass black hole and a 29 stellar mass black hole to produce a 62 stellar mass black hole. That's 3 stellar masses of energy lost, which is a very significant fraction (4.6%) of the rest mass energy of the original pair. Compare that to fusion, the primary driver of both stellar and supernova energy output, which gets you a bit less than 9 MeV binding energy per nucleon at best (Fe56). Since nucleons have a bit over 900 MeV rest mass, that's a bit less than 1% rest mass energy conversion, at best. Black hole mergers are wickedly efficient. |
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
|
24th March 2017, 11:46 AM | #11 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
24th March 2017, 11:49 AM | #12 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Three black holes walk into a tavern...
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
25th March 2017, 02:29 AM | #13 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,650
|
"Such openings of the merger of even more massive black hole shot up from it like a rocket in the opposite direction as the strongest gravitational waves."
like a rocket. A strongly expanding fuel is push-back force. love 1039 🎆 |
__________________
http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com/l4 "Math without words is meaningless. Words without math can have meaning." by Maartenn100 |
|
25th March 2017, 02:30 AM | #14 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,650
|
"To be able to push billion solar masses black hole into circulation, required enormous energy. It is needed to Release by the amount of one hundred million a supernova, or star explosion."
So, if in the opposite direction does not have any freedom expanding pushing power. "When you merge into the black holes of different sizes, their motion from gravity waves are stronger in one direction" How much is the movement / energy / pushing force it is to have to expand much faster than normal?!? love 1039 �� |
__________________
http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com/l4 "Math without words is meaningless. Words without math can have meaning." by Maartenn100 |
|
25th March 2017, 02:31 AM | #15 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,650
|
"Merging black holes suggest observed a black hole mastergalaxy curved objects or tidaltails.They are created by the interaction of two galaxies."
They arise when the two expansion supermassive items to crash into each other, and may expand a pushing force to expand much faster than normal and expanding the pushing power of supermassive objects are pushed out onto asunder. love 1039 �� |
__________________
http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com/l4 "Math without words is meaningless. Words without math can have meaning." by Maartenn100 |
|
26th March 2017, 01:04 AM | #16 |
Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 193
|
The merger of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxy will be spectacular.
Some folks say the stars and planets of the systems won't be affected much. The stars are so far apart that star collisions or even close fly bys will be rare. But it is likely the supermassive black holes will merge. |
26th March 2017, 07:01 AM | #17 | |||
Woof!
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,136
|
Sort of.
|
|||
__________________
Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra |
||||
26th March 2017, 02:10 PM | #18 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 405
|
Think HOT and light as being nuclear particles orbiting in chaotic orbit directions
It takes reaction to turn stone to gas, then it takes reaction to turn gas to water and again reaction to turn water to gas, reaction then turns gas back into rock. (comet, asteroid, earth and yes also the sun as fire is at the nucleus of all these. When some one say's your a ball of fire, well you really are! As all cells have a nucleus, we are unable to get to the center of our planet but we can study a water cell. To do this first understand that the nucleus of any cell is made up of orbiting nuclei so small as to not interact with matter as we know it. You will find at the nucleus what will be to you as air pockets or bubbles and if studying the universe instead of this ice cube you would call these bubbles black holes. Now your really going to want to call these black holes oxygen and hydrogen but when you know the secret way of causing a reaction that has these many particles running into each other then you to can discover the fire in your ice cube. |
1st April 2017, 07:36 PM | #19 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 405
|
Just the other day a person ahead of me was having bubbles scraped off their coffee. I asked and was told they were sensitive to bubbles. So I took the time, soon eyes were glazing over so didn't have a chance to explain that the energy it took to make the bubbles and most of what it took to make a cow was included in each individual milk bubble .
Now you know why your milkshake is so satisfying. After all, nutrition is the aura or spirit of what was consumed. |
1st April 2017, 07:45 PM | #20 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,212
|
|
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
|
7th April 2017, 02:22 PM | #21 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 405
|
Colors of the Sky
Blue, Orange, Green “GREEN” Only once have I experienced the inside of an active cumulonimbus cloud. Flying the clocks at about five thousand feet I was met with heavy turbulence, deafening thunder and lightening all around the aircraft – close enough to touch. At about the time a decision was made to somehow get the hell out of this, I broke out into a humongous cavern. It was medium light getting lighter in elevation, the colour being an eerie green-grey. It was dead calm and I will swear that the drone of the engines were one half of normal. I would be enjoying this fantastic experience but for the fact that the ‘outy’ was going to be like the ‘iny’ – and it was. Guess that I can claim to have flown an aircraft through a Black Hole! “WOW” |
7th April 2017, 03:03 PM | #22 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,213
|
|
7th April 2017, 03:09 PM | #23 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,355
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|