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Tags astronomy , black holes

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Old 24th March 2017, 12:06 AM   #1
Samson
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Two black holes merge kick third out of ball park

Quote:

Astronomers have uncovered a supermassive black hole that has been propelled out of the center of a distant galaxy by what could be the awesome power of gravitational waves.

Though there have been several other suspected, similarly booted black holes elsewhere, none has been confirmed so far. Astronomers think this object, detected by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope, is a very strong case. Weighing more than 1 billion suns, the rogue black hole is the most massive black hole ever detected to have been kicked out of its central home.
Researchers estimate that it took the equivalent energy of 100 million supernovas exploding simultaneously to jettison the black hole. The most plausible explanation for this propulsive energy is that the monster object was given a kick by gravitational waves unleashed by the merger of two hefty black holes at the center of the host galaxy.

https://phys.org/news/2017-03-hubble...-galactic.html

...............................................

Beyond my pay grade to help much here, but I thought it an interesting proposition. 100 million supernovae? And that is only one tiny neck of thye woods.
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Old 24th March 2017, 03:35 AM   #2
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Mine too, and incomprehensible power and size to my tiny brain.
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Old 24th March 2017, 04:01 AM   #3
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I always thought that if three objects are orbiting each other there is always a risk of two of them ejecting the third from the system. When people discuss this they generally are talking about planets, but I suppose black holes are just bigger versions.
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Old 24th March 2017, 04:06 AM   #4
Craig B
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Quote:


Researchers estimate that it took the equivalent energy of 100 million supernovas exploding simultaneously to jettison the black hole. The most plausible explanation for this propulsive energy is that the monster object was given a kick by gravitational waves unleashed by the merger of two hefty black holes at the center of the host galaxy.

https://phys.org/news/2017-03-hubble...-galactic.html

...............................................

Beyond my pay grade to help much here, but I thought it an interesting proposition. 100 million supernovae? And that is only one tiny neck of thye woods.
I have read that the peak output of a typical supernova is equivalent to the luminosity of an entire galaxy. If that is so, now can a galaxy possibly contain an object with energy equivalent to a hundred million supernovae?
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Old 24th March 2017, 04:09 AM   #5
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How long until this news morphs into Planet X is a supermassive BH ejected by Ancient Aliens and which is heading for Earth on a surf board, if only NASA scientists stopped lying?
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Old 24th March 2017, 04:13 AM   #6
Samson
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I have read that the peak output of a typical supernova is equivalent to the luminosity of an entire galaxy. If that is so, now can a galaxy possibly contain an object with energy equivalent to a hundred million supernovae?
Yes, we may be at mercy of an expert witness.
For example, there are supposedly 100 billion galaxies, so this event engaged 1/1000th of the energy of the universe?
I doubt it.
But someone in the exclusive ISF club will sort this.
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Old 24th March 2017, 07:25 AM   #7
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Weight and mass are not the same
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Old 24th March 2017, 08:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I have read that the peak output of a typical supernova is equivalent to the luminosity of an entire galaxy. If that is so, now can a galaxy possibly contain an object with energy equivalent to a hundred million supernovae?
It's also true that the energy of a supernova is present in the star that is going nova. The issue of course is that the supernova may shine with the luminosity of an entire galaxy but it does so for a much shorter time span than does a galaxy. The lifetime of stars ranges from millions to trillions of years (I think that's right).

Furthermore the amount of a star's total energy (as measured by it's mass) which is converted to radiation is only a small percentage.

So clearly the amount of energy present in a galaxy is greater than 100 million supernovae, and thus, while the event in question is spectacular, it's not ruled out by the idea that a galaxy wouldn't contain that much energy.
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:06 AM   #9
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Does phys.org always use such sensationalist language in its articles? They might as well be talking about Nibiru, the way that quote reads.
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I have read that the peak output of a typical supernova is equivalent to the luminosity of an entire galaxy. If that is so, now can a galaxy possibly contain an object with energy equivalent to a hundred million supernovae?
Because you're mixing energy and power. Stick with just energy. From here:

"A supernova is an explosion of a massive supergiant star. It may shine with the brightness of 10 billion suns! The total energy output may be 1044 joules, as much as the total output of the sun during its 10 billion year lifetime."

So a supernova might burn off energy (not power) equivalent to our sun's normal burning process, which only accounts for a fraction of its rest mass energy. A supermassive black hole can be 108 times the mass of our sun, or about 100 million times as much. All you need is for the black hole to be able to expend a comparable part of its rest mass in some energy release process, and you can get those kinds of results. So is there any available process?

Why yes, there is. Black hole mergers. The merger recently observed by LIGO was between a 36 stellar mass black hole and a 29 stellar mass black hole to produce a 62 stellar mass black hole. That's 3 stellar masses of energy lost, which is a very significant fraction (4.6%) of the rest mass energy of the original pair. Compare that to fusion, the primary driver of both stellar and supernova energy output, which gets you a bit less than 9 MeV binding energy per nucleon at best (Fe56). Since nucleons have a bit over 900 MeV rest mass, that's a bit less than 1% rest mass energy conversion, at best.

Black hole mergers are wickedly efficient.
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Does phys.org always use such sensationalist language in its articles?
Welcome to the modern age.
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Old 24th March 2017, 11:49 AM   #12
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Three black holes walk into a tavern...
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Old 25th March 2017, 02:29 AM   #13
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"Such openings of the merger of even more massive black hole shot up from it like a rocket in the opposite direction as the strongest gravitational waves."

like a rocket.

A strongly expanding fuel is push-back force.

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Old 25th March 2017, 02:30 AM   #14
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"To be able to push billion solar masses black hole into circulation, required enormous energy. It is needed to Release by the amount of one hundred million a supernova, or star explosion."

So, if in the opposite direction does not have any freedom expanding pushing power.

"When you merge into the black holes of different sizes, their motion from gravity waves are stronger in one direction"

How much is the movement / energy / pushing force it is to have to expand much faster than normal?!?

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Old 25th March 2017, 02:31 AM   #15
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"Merging black holes suggest observed a black hole mastergalaxy curved objects or tidaltails.They are created by the interaction of two galaxies."

They arise when the two expansion supermassive items to crash into each other, and may expand a pushing force to expand much faster than normal and expanding the pushing power of supermassive objects are pushed out onto asunder.

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Old 26th March 2017, 01:04 AM   #16
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The merger of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxy will be spectacular.

Some folks say the stars and planets of the systems won't be affected much. The stars are so far apart that star collisions or even close fly bys will be rare.

But it is likely the supermassive black holes will merge.
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Old 26th March 2017, 07:01 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Weight and mass are not the same
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Sort of.

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Old 26th March 2017, 02:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Mine too, and incomprehensible power and size to my tiny brain.
Think HOT and light as being nuclear particles orbiting in chaotic orbit directions

It takes reaction to turn stone to gas, then it takes reaction to turn gas to water and again reaction to turn water to gas, reaction then turns gas back into rock. (comet, asteroid, earth and yes also the sun as fire is at the nucleus of all these. When some one say's your a ball of fire, well you really are!

As all cells have a nucleus, we are unable to get to the center of our planet but we can study a water cell. To do this first understand that the nucleus of any cell is made up of orbiting nuclei so small as to not interact with matter as we know it. You will find at the nucleus what will be to you as air pockets or bubbles and if studying the universe instead of this ice cube you would call these bubbles black holes. Now your really going to want to call these black holes oxygen and hydrogen but when you know the secret way of causing a reaction that has these many particles running into each other then you to can discover the fire in your ice cube.
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Old 1st April 2017, 07:36 PM   #19
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Just the other day a person ahead of me was having bubbles scraped off their coffee. I asked and was told they were sensitive to bubbles. So I took the time, soon eyes were glazing over so didn't have a chance to explain that the energy it took to make the bubbles and most of what it took to make a cow was included in each individual milk bubble .
Now you know why your milkshake is so satisfying.
After all, nutrition is the aura or spirit of what was consumed.
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Old 1st April 2017, 07:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bruce Voigt View Post
After all, nutrition is the aura or spirit of what was consumed.
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Old 7th April 2017, 02:22 PM   #21
Bruce Voigt
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Colors of the Sky
Blue, Orange, Green “GREEN”

Only once have I experienced the inside of an active cumulonimbus cloud.

Flying the clocks at about five thousand feet I was met with heavy turbulence, deafening thunder and lightening all around the aircraft – close enough to touch.
At about the time a decision was made to somehow get the hell out of this, I broke out into a humongous cavern. It was medium light getting lighter in elevation, the colour being an eerie green-grey.
It was dead calm and I will swear that the drone of the engines were one half of normal.
I would be enjoying this fantastic experience but for the fact that the ‘outy’ was going to be like the ‘iny’ – and it was.
Guess that I can claim to have flown an aircraft through a Black Hole! “WOW”
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Old 7th April 2017, 03:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bruce Voigt View Post
Guess that I can claim to have flown an aircraft through a Black Hole! “WOW”
Guess again.
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Old 7th April 2017, 03:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bruce Voigt View Post
Colors of the Sky
Blue, Orange, Green “GREEN”

Only once have I experienced the inside of an active cumulonimbus cloud.

Flying the clocks at about five thousand feet I was met with heavy turbulence, deafening thunder and lightening all around the aircraft – close enough to touch.
At about the time a decision was made to somehow get the hell out of this, I broke out into a humongous cavern. It was medium light getting lighter in elevation, the colour being an eerie green-grey.
It was dead calm and I will swear that the drone of the engines were one half of normal.
I would be enjoying this fantastic experience but for the fact that the ‘outy’ was going to be like the ‘iny’ – and it was.
Guess that I can claim to have flown an aircraft through a Black Hole! “WOW”
Black holes are not green or GREEN. The hint is in their name.

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