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Old 31st May 2017, 12:17 AM   #41
Paul Bethke
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
That's what you claim will happen. I told someone else that this was a claim you often made. You quoted that post and then told me I was wrong. Then you went on to show that I was right. And you continue to show that I was right. Is gaslighting such an ingrained part of your communication that you do it without thinking? You do this a lot. You tell people they're wrong and then in the very same post you provide evidence that they were right. Either you can't read and comprehend simple English sentences, or you just tell people they're wrong as a knee-jerk response.
You may be right in one way, but wrong in another way—you are right in many ways, but you are wrong in many ways, so how do we balance out your wrongs and rights?

You SEE there is so much complications today regarding the interpretation of Scripture—some people are right about certain things and then wrong about other matters.

The Catholic church is correct about a lot of things, but incorrect about a lot of foci.

So, I am about dealing with the critical issues.

Everything about the laws is important, but there are things more important than the important ones. The Churches are right about many things, but wrong in relation to the more important things.

The Forum critics do make me re-examine my stance and that is why I post to have the critics shred me apart.

So even when I am right the critics SEE me as wrong, so I rightfully accept this in order to clarify my belief.
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Old 31st May 2017, 06:05 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You may be right in one way, but wrong in another way—you are right in many ways, but you are wrong in many ways, so how do we balance out your wrongs and rights?

You SEE there is so much complications today regarding the interpretation of Scripture—some people are right about certain things and then wrong about other matters.

The Catholic church is correct about a lot of things, but incorrect about a lot of foci.

So, I am about dealing with the critical issues.

Everything about the laws is important, but there are things more important than the important ones. The Churches are right about many things, but wrong in relation to the more important things.

The Forum critics do make me re-examine my stance and that is why I post to have the critics shred me apart.

So even when I am right the critics SEE me as wrong, so I rightfully accept this in order to clarify my belief.
Running that screed through a semantic sieve gives: "I flounder, others point it out, I am thereby led to flounder still more." Bottom line? Bosh.
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Old 31st May 2017, 06:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You may be right in one way, but wrong in another way—you are right in many ways, but you are wrong in many ways, so how do we balance out your wrongs and rights?

You SEE there is so much complications today regarding the interpretation of Scripture—some people are right about certain things and then wrong about other matters.

The Catholic church is correct about a lot of things, but incorrect about a lot of foci.

So, I am about dealing with the critical issues.

Everything about the laws is important, but there are things more important than the important ones. The Churches are right about many things, but wrong in relation to the more important things.

The Forum critics do make me re-examine my stance and that is why I post to have the critics shred me apart.

So even when I am right the critics SEE me as wrong, so I rightfully accept this in order to clarify my belief.
The only thing that you have clarified is that no matter where the discussion may go, you invariably steer it back to adultery.

Why do you do that?
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Old 31st May 2017, 06:40 AM   #44
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You may be right in one way, but wrong in another way—
No, I was entirely right. I accurately reported to someone else what your claims were regarding the end times. You told me I was wrong, and then went on -- twice -- to repeat your claims identically as I had reported them. I was right and you were wrong. Do not pretend otherwise.

Quote:
...you are right in many ways, but you are wrong in many ways, so how do we balance out your wrongs and rights?
You have yet to show I've been wrong about anything. This is just what you commonly claim -- without evidence -- when someone corrects you. No "balancing" is needed, and this is not a case where everyone is a little bit wrong and a little bit right. This is a case where you're wrong almost all the time and you find almost any excuse to keep from having to face that.

Quote:
You SEE there is so much complications today regarding the interpretation of Scripture—some people are right about certain things and then wrong about other matters.
But we're not talking about the interpretation of scripture. We're talking about the interpretation of ordinary English sentences that I wrote to someone else. You can't even understand that correctly.

Quote:
The Forum critics do make me re-examine my stance and that is why I post to have the critics shred me apart.
But you don't re-examine your stance. You simply continue to claim that you're right and everyone else is wrong, even when they are provably, obviously right and you are blatantly wrong. Your denial of your own errors is so profound that it would probably qualify as a mental illness in a more serious context.

Quote:
So even when I am right the critics SEE me as wrong, so I rightfully accept this in order to clarify my belief.
This sort of gaslighting doesn't really work here, Bethke. Your critics don't merely "see" you as wrong. Your critics can prove you are wrong. You don't accept it, and you try to gaslight them into believing they have no proof. All you do is claim, as a knee-jerk reaction, that your critics are wrong and then offer nonsensical rants and irrelevant dumps from your computer Bible search tool. You are not magnanimous in error. You arrogantly claim to be perfect when you clearly are not.
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Old 31st May 2017, 07:01 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The only thing that you have clarified is that no matter where the discussion may go, you invariably steer it back to adultery.

Why do you do that?
He has an ax to grind in there somewhere. The obsession is myopic and consistent. I have some theories on what sparked it, but I'll have to keep those in the short story I have on the back burner.
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Old 31st May 2017, 07:29 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
He has an ax to grind in there somewhere. The obsession is myopic and consistent. I have some theories on what sparked it, but I'll have to keep those in the short story I have on the back burner.
OH, as do I. As long as PB avoids such questions however, that remains in the realm of speculation. All we have as evidence is PB's actual posts. Which are obsessed with adultery.

Now, there are countries where adultery is a criminal offence punishable by death as PB claims he wants and his god wants.

The odd thing is that they are all muslim countries where a death penalty is mandated by law. I can only conclude that PB is closer to Islam than christianity. He wont like that much.

Add in posts like this...
Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
There is no obsession only an understanding that adultery is rife in the world today, and is the main cause of family disruption—everywhere I go I find people in an adulteries relationship.
There are children who do not know who their fathers are, there are abandoned children, there is child abuse. There is rape and prostitution. But this seems not to concern you!
Dress and grooming, in what way are they applicable—if they are significant, how are they applied.
What do you mean by grooming?
Certainly there is a dress code--1Titus_2:9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,

1Co_11:6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
1Co_11:14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,

1Pe 3:3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes.
1Pe 3:4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

So there is a dress code, emphasising that an inward change is better than an outward display.

Do not lose site that a sanctified marriage is paramount, and all other laws must hinge on that.

What you must consider is that the Hebrews came out of a heathen situation in Egypt and had to have laws that separated them from the culture they were subject to.

So we take our cue from all these laws, and find a parallel application.
There is also the scientific and hygienic consideration for these laws, such as what is the purpose.

Cleanliness was considered important, that which had an outcome on preventing diseases.
For one when slaughtering animals—there is a parallel today—contact with blood.
Mixing of fibres cause irritation mildew in houses, the prevention of such.

So every law must be considered and evaluated.
...and PB is promoting another Islamic position.

It would be rather easy to back track and demonstrate that PB is promoting Islam and not christianity at all.
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Old 31st May 2017, 07:36 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It would be rather easy to back track and demonstrate that PB is promoting Islam and not christianity at all.
His obsession with the Ten Commandments is compatible with Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Islam
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Old 31st May 2017, 07:47 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
His obsession with the Ten Commandments is compatible with Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Islam
As is his claim to be the final prophet. Effectively, PB is claiming to be Big Mo's successor.

As I consider it, this is an interesting line of enquiry. Unfortunately, I doubt PB will engage with it.

Nevertheless, when one thinks about it, PB claims that apocalyptic death will be handed about to all and sundry. That's what Islamic extremists do.

PB claims to facilitate the handing out of divine violent justice. That's what Islamic extremists do.

The more one compares the two positions, the more PB's claims align with the Jihadi claims.

That is a little disturbing.
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Old 31st May 2017, 08:02 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
As is his claim to be the final prophet. Effectively, PB is claiming to be Big Mo's successor.

As I consider it, this is an interesting line of enquiry. Unfortunately, I doubt PB will engage with it.

Nevertheless, when one thinks about it, PB claims that apocalyptic death will be handed about to all and sundry. That's what Islamic extremists do.

PB claims to facilitate the handing out of divine violent justice. That's what Islamic extremists do.

The more one compares the two positions, the more PB's claims align with the Jihadi claims.

That is a little disturbing.
Yet wholly unsurprising.
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Old 31st May 2017, 02:00 PM   #50
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I have the distinct feeling that the times will end before this thread ends.
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On 16 MAY 2017 Paul Bethke discussed some of the sexual prohibitions of his god regarding man-to-man sex acts and woman-to-woman sex acts: "So not only lesbian acts but also anal sex.."
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post11840580

A man's best friend is his dogma.
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Old 31st May 2017, 11:37 PM   #51
Paul Bethke
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
OH, as do I. As long as PB avoids such questions however, that remains in the realm of speculation. All we have as evidence is PB's actual posts. Which are obsessed with adultery.

Now, there are countries where adultery is a criminal offence punishable by death as PB claims he wants and his god wants.

The odd thing is that they are all muslim countries where a death penalty is mandated by law. I can only conclude that PB is closer to Islam than christianity. He wont like that much.

Add in posts like this...


...and PB is promoting another Islamic position.

It would be rather easy to back track and demonstrate that PB is promoting Islam and not christianity at all.
You are wrong—Islam came way after the Torah, so Islam took from the Torah that which Yahweh had stipulated regarding dealing with adultery.

You are wrong because you do not SEE that a pure holy sanctified marriage is what the Creator ordained.

Today there is so much sexual immorality that there is no hope for the youth who are bombarded with suggestions to become corrupt.
Beside the death penalty which is not part of any constitution the offenders will go to hell.

So, this is why the world must be warned that marriage must be pure as is stated---Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honoured by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

So what is the final outcome—there are those who are born out of a pure marriage, and there are those who are born out of an adulteries marriage.

Exo_20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
Lev_20:10 "'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbour—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

So this is the situation in the world today—so people will not be stoned but they will be banished to the eternal dungeon of darkness.
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Old 1st June 2017, 01:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
OH, as do I. As long as PB avoids such questions however, that remains in the realm of speculation. All we have as evidence is PB's actual posts. Which are obsessed with adultery.

Now, there are countries where adultery is a criminal offence punishable by death as PB claims he wants and his god wants.

The odd thing is that they are all muslim countries where a death penalty is mandated by law. I can only conclude that PB is closer to Islam than christianity. He wont like that much.

Add in posts like this...


...and PB is promoting another Islamic position.

It would be rather easy to back track and demonstrate that PB is promoting Islam and not christianity at all.
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
His obsession with the Ten Commandments is compatible with Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Islam
I have already made this point to Paul Bethke, some way back in the thread. It was, predictably, ignored by him.
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Old 1st June 2017, 01:57 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
His obsession with the Ten Commandments is compatible with Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Islam
It is the contents of what is in the Decalogue that is important—do not lie—do not steal—do not commit adultery---do not covet your neighbours wife or any of his possessions.

So, then you must approve of these things that are stated in the Ten Commands.
As you should know Islam did not exist at the time of the Decalogue being given.

You SEE comet, if all people adhered to the Ten Commands then the world would be a much better place.
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Old 1st June 2017, 02:11 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
So, then you must approve of these things that are stated in the Ten Commands.

Why?

Some have merit as social rules. Others are irrelevant, contributing nothing to ensuring social well being.
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Old 1st June 2017, 03:59 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
It is the contents of what is in the Decalogue that is important—do not lie—do not steal—do not commit adultery---do not covet your neighbours wife or any of his possessions.



So, then you must approve of these things that are stated in the Ten Commands.

As you should know Islam did not exist at the time of the Decalogue being given.



You SEE comet, if all people adhered to the Ten Commands then the world would be a much better place.


None of that has anything to do with various End Times theories.
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Old 1st June 2017, 06:58 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
None of that has anything to do with various End Times theories.
Indeed, it seems like the obsession over sex continues unabated.
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Old 1st June 2017, 09:27 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
None of that has anything to do with various End Times theories.
Yes it does--the Ten Commands will be the means by which all peoples will be judged, thereby bringing to an END the sin in the world.
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Old 1st June 2017, 09:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Indeed, it seems like the obsession over sex continues unabated.
It is not about the holiness of sex--it is about adultery, the unholiness of sex.
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Old 1st June 2017, 09:40 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Yes it does--the Ten Commands will be the means by which all peoples will be judged, thereby bringing to an END the sin in the world.
Well, that's vague to the point of uselessness. Got anything more specific? Predictions that aren't just your posting random Bible quotes?
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Old 1st June 2017, 09:45 AM   #60
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Enough tangents. The thread title is about the End Times, bit Paul Bethke's adultery obsession.

Let's get back on track:

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I AGREE
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Old 1st June 2017, 09:55 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
It is the contents of what is in the Decalogue that is important—do not lie—do not steal—do not commit adultery---do not covet your neighbours wife or any of his possessions.

So, then you must approve of these things that are stated in the Ten Commands.
As you should know Islam did not exist at the time of the Decalogue being given.

You SEE comet, if all people adhered to the Ten Commands then the world would be a much better place.
I've always thought that most of the Ten Commandments were some pretty good basic rules for living. Sometimes, religious people come up with some good ideas. Unfortunately, those ideas are mixed in with a whole lot of stuff that makes no sense at all -like the end times nonsense.

Every culture comes up with it's own religious mythology as a way to provide meaning to life as well as a way to keep people in line with the power structure of the society. I see no reason why we should believe one culture's religious ideas over another culture's. They are all made up stories that distract us from the scary truth: there is no inherent meaning to life. We exist and then we don't; a mere blink in the universe.
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Old 1st June 2017, 10:11 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
As you should know Islam did not exist at the time of the Decalogue being given.
Neither did christianity.
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Old 1st June 2017, 10:46 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
It is not about the holiness of sex--it is about adultery, the unholiness of sex.
Weasel words. You're obsessed with regulating sexual behavior, to the exclusion of nearly everything else.
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Old 1st June 2017, 11:15 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
OH, as do I. As long as PB avoids such questions however, that remains in the realm of speculation. All we have as evidence is PB's actual posts. Which are obsessed with adultery.

Now, there are countries where adultery is a criminal offence punishable by death as PB claims he wants and his god wants.

The odd thing is that they are all muslim countries where a death penalty is mandated by law. I can only conclude that PB is closer to Islam than christianity. He wont like that much.

Add in posts like this...


...and PB is promoting another Islamic position.

It would be rather easy to back track and demonstrate that PB is promoting Islam and not christianity at all.
You are wrong—Islam came way after the Torah, so Islam took from the Torah that which Yahweh had stipulated regarding dealing with adultery.

You are wrong because you do not SEE that a pure holy sanctified marriage is what the Creator ordained.

Today there is so much sexual immorality that there is no hope for the youth who are bombarded with suggestions to become corrupt.
Beside the death penalty which is not part of any constitution the offenders will go to hell.

So, this is why the world must be warned that marriage must be pure as is stated---Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honoured by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

So what is the final outcome—there are those who are born out of a pure marriage, and there are those who are born out of an adulteries marriage.

Exo_20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
Lev_20:10 "'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbour—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

So this is the situation in the world today—so people will not be stoned but they will be banished to the eternal dungeon of darkness.
Are you going to continue to claim that sex is not your obsession?

And are you going to continue to pretend that you are unaware of Hamurrabi?

And are you going to pretend that not one of your prophecies ever came true?
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Old 1st June 2017, 11:54 AM   #65
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The prophesies of the Border Reiver are:

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Are you going to continue to claim that sex is not your obsession?
Yes. He will continue to attempt to disguise his obsession as support for his personal definition of marriage, and will not see that everyone else sees through this.

Quote:
And are you going to continue to pretend that you are unaware of Hamurrabi?
Yes. Paul will argue that the existence of a legal code similar to that found in Scripture that predates Scripture is not evidence that it was copied from an earlier source. He just won't do it well.

Quote:
And are you going to pretend that not one of your prophecies ever came true?

No. He will continue to claim that they were predictions, not prophesies, redefining prophesy so he doesn't need to call for his own execution.
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Old 1st June 2017, 12:07 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The prophesies of the Border Reiver are:



Yes. He will continue to attempt to disguise his obsession as support for his personal definition of marriage, and will not see that everyone else sees through this.



Yes. Paul will argue that the existence of a legal code similar to that found in Scripture that predates Scripture is not evidence that it was copied from an earlier source. He just won't do it well.




No. He will continue to claim that they were predictions, not prophesies, redefining prophesy so he doesn't need to call for his own execution.
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Old 1st June 2017, 04:10 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post


My 'Stache is thicker and redder.
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Old 1st June 2017, 05:19 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
My 'Stache is thicker and redder.
Well, you can probably get something for that...
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Old 2nd June 2017, 12:34 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Are you going to continue to claim that sex is not your obsession?

And are you going to continue to pretend that you are unaware of Hamurrabi?

And are you going to pretend that not one of your prophecies ever came true?
Well first of all it is the world that is obsessed with sexual immorality—I am zealous for holy morality.

Hamurrabi as you call it—shows that people can live by an ethical code, a code that considers other people’s wellbeing.

You see the Torah explains to people how to live together in harmony, the initiation of Torah will always be met with difficulties as people are prone to reject change.

But one essential consideration is that the Torah deals with requirements of how to engage with the Creator.

All prophecy will eventually come true, otherwise the Creator has spoken in vain—at this stage none of what I have predicted, based on prophecy has materialised.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 12:49 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Neither did christianity.
Depends on what one considers Christianity to be—the first converts to Christ were Jews.
Conversion to Christ did not do away with the Torah—Christianity did!!
Act 2:5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

Act 2:41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

So, the early assembly were Jews and converts to Judaism—Christianity today is a conglomeration of different denominations which do not accept the wisdom contained in the Torah as a means to worship the Creator.

It is stated that if a person rejects Torah then they are rejected.

Leviticus_26:15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my Covenant,

So the END time will focus on the Torah as a means to worship the Creator--that is when the Kingdom of Yahweh will be finally established.
It is the setting up of this Kingdom that will be difficult--but none the less it will be done, and Jerusalem will be free of violence.
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Last edited by Paul Bethke; 2nd June 2017 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 01:20 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
All prophecy will eventually come true, otherwise the Creator has spoken in vain I have misinterpreted cherry picked quotes from a collection of writings by various ancient authors as divinely inspired prophesies about a time thousands of years in the future
FTFY.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 02:52 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
It is stated that if a person rejects Torah then they are rejected.

With you rejection of many of the mitzvot then will YOU not be rejected?
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Old 2nd June 2017, 03:52 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Hamurrabi as you call it—
Hammurabi was not an "it," but a real person who gave his people codified ethical rules of living. Much of his legacy was centuries later subsumed by a bunch of Bronze-age goat herders who fancied themselves the darlings of an unevidenced deity.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 05:02 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Hammurabi was not an "it," but a real person who gave his people codified ethical rules of living. Much of his legacy was centuries later subsumed by a bunch of Bronze-age goat herders who fancied themselves the darlings of an unevidenced deity.
For instance, Hammurabi is credited with the limiting legal principle of "an eye for an eye." No more could you claim more for an injury then what was received - if Bob killed Frank, then Frank's relatives could only have Bob's life, not Bob's and George's and Paul's...
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Old 3rd June 2017, 04:13 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Hammurabi was not an "it," but a real person who gave his people codified ethical rules of living. Much of his legacy was centuries later subsumed by a bunch of Bronze-age goat herders who fancied themselves the darlings of an unevidenced deity.
So you see people became evil--there was always a moral code, embedded in the heart of man--so as is written it will be this code that will judge each person.

BUT you see it is the Torah that revealed the Creator- not Hammurabi.

So the END is to SEE who remains in the END!!
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Old 3rd June 2017, 04:15 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
With you rejection of many of the mitzvot then will YOU not be rejected?
You are wrong --no command will be rejected as Jesus stated.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 04:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You are wrong --no command will be rejected as Jesus stated.
Why, then, do you reject so many of them?
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Old 3rd June 2017, 04:32 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You are wrong --no command will be rejected as Jesus stated.


Yet you reject many of the laws - "This law only applies to farmers, this law must be ignored because there is no Temple, this law only applies to Jews, this law only applies within the physical land of Israel, etc". As you reject the the commands of God, so you reject God.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 06:25 AM   #79
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Just some support PB.

Signs that a major pandemic would be upon us.

The CDC publishes death rates for the US. If the pandemic is global and no country is spared then the US death rate will increase dramatically.

The problem is that they are 1-2 years behind. Good data for 2013/12 has been published and rates for 2015/4 have been released.

What they show is that heart attacks (23.5%) and cancer (22.5%) are the leading causes. Lung problems are third at 5.7%). Flu and pneumonia are eighth at 2.2%. There has been little change in these statistics over the past few years.

So there would have to be a dramatic change. And the media would be making a story of it before the data release.

Preceding the global pandemic would be areas with high sickness and death rates. Just how much warning would we have?

And there are people in the medical field that say we are overdue for a major pandemic.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 06:52 AM   #80
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A little more.

I came across "mycoplasma". I thought it was fungal because of the "myco". And possibly related to histoplasmosis. Nope. They are a genus of bacteria that lack a cell wall. Because of that they are unaffected by many antibiotics. They are tiny and there are hundreds of varieties. M. pneumoniae is the one responsible for "walking pneumonia". Mycoplasma might be involved in cancer.

We live in a sea of micro-organisms. They can mutate rapidly. Many are not pathogenic and are tolerated by the hosts. What is to stop a pathogenic organism from acquiring defenses of a benign organism, and not be seen by the host?

Our immune systems are the key to survival in this environment. If compromised, modern medicine does not have methodologies to fight off problems. And we are in a losing battle. The number and variety of organisms is growing. We are feeding them with over-population and areas that are breeding them in massive numbers. Mankind is weakening peoples immune systems with toxic overload. It is a matter of time.

Now what does God have to do with this? He has to sit back and watch how nature sorts out the problem that is of mankind's making. He is not going to directly kill off billions. And he is not going to reveal himself as the instigator of such a pandemic. No, it is called intelligent design. The die-off is going to look "natural".

But who will pay the heaviest price? Those whose lifestyles tend to reduce their immune systems anyhow. That is - the sinners.

So what one might say. It is nature. Some like PB (and me) would say - "No - it is God giving fair warning and also freedom of choice". There will be a balancing and an accounting. One should not forget what accompanies pandemics - riots and killing of those who are seen as "responsible". Mankind has not evolved far enough to leave that behind. The believers outnumber the non-believers.
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