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Old 7th June 2017, 06:04 AM   #121
Paul Bethke
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Do not gaslight me, Bethke. The evidence shows you do not have a competent knowledge of scripture. Hence, you have invented this "prophetic meaning" as nothing more than knowledge you allegedly possess and which your critics allegedly cannot. In logic this is "special pleading," and it is not a valid argument.

To the point at hand, the scriptures say you require two other human witnesses. You have said the Torah is your witness. The Torah is not human; it cannot be a witness under the pertinent scripture. You have said Yahweh is your witness. Yahweh is not human; it cannot be a witness under the pertinent scripture. You have said your infallible interpretation of scripture serves as your witness. That is a concept, not a human. Even in the most charitable interpretation of that vague nonsense, the only human involved in that is you, and you cannot serve as your own witness.

So name your witnesses or concede that you don't have any.
OK you are at this stage entirely correct based on the fact that I have not gone public with my claims.
So, until then the only witness is as you say, is me—but I have a witness that you do not know.

So, until then I will be the only witness referring to the Scriptures as the means of understanding prophecy.

You SEE it is the Creator that must validate his prophetic declarations.
So the signs will be my witness---Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

So the Creator must testify to his word being final. So this is how the END will announce the beginning.

But you are wrong about my knowledge of the Scriptures—it is as I have said, you do not understand the prophetic content in the Scriptures, that is why you make such ridiculous statement concerning my knowledge of the Scriptures.
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Old 7th June 2017, 06:23 AM   #122
halleyscomet
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Wink

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
OK you are at this stage entirely correct based on the fact that I have not gone public with my claims.
Probably because they don't exist.
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Old 7th June 2017, 06:23 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Shhh. You'll anger the Prophet and he'll kill your grass with his divine virginity beams.
Oh yeah, isn't he the guy who said that all the grass at the World Cup or something would turn brown, which of course never happened?
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Old 7th June 2017, 06:31 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Oh yeah, isn't he the guy who said that all the grass at the World Cup or something would turn brown, which of course never happened?
Yep. And he was going to blind James Randi about 8 or 9 years ago.

At this point, he's just a train wreck we're watching for the LOLs.

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Old 7th June 2017, 08:42 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
So the signs will be my witness---
"Signs" are not witnesses.

1) Made up his own definition for the word "witness"


Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
But you are wrong about my knowledge of the Scriptures—
2) Claims another poster is wrong

3) Made up his own definition for the word "knowledge"


Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
it is as I have said, you do not understand the prophetic content in the Scriptures,
4) Claims another poster does not understand

5) Made up his own definition for the word "prophetic"


Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
that is why you make such ridiculous statement
6) Claims another poster makes ridiculous statement


Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
concerning my knowledge of the Scriptures.
7) Made up his own definition for the word "knowledge"

************

This is only the first day of the game(!) clearly there is not enough money, to buy enough alcohol, to play along with PB!!
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Old 7th June 2017, 08:48 AM   #126
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
"Signs" are not witnesses.

1) Made up his own definition for the word "witness"




2) Claims another poster is wrong

3) Made up his own definition for the word "knowledge"




4) Claims another poster does not understand

5) Made up his own definition for the word "prophetic"




6) Claims another poster makes ridiculous statement




7) Made up his own definition for the word "knowledge"

************

This is only the first day of the game(!) clearly there is not enough money, to buy enough alcohol, to play along with PB!!

Maybe if we adjusted the rules to only take one drink per post, no matter how may criteria he meets in each post...
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Old 7th June 2017, 09:14 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Maybe if we adjusted the rules to only take one drink per post, no matter how may criteria he meets in each post...
I think that the promotion of drinking games is foolish - even at the reduced rate, we'd be loaded by lunch.

My beers won't ferment that fast man!
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Old 7th June 2017, 09:27 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
So, until then the only witness is as you say, is me—
No, I said you claimed to be your own witness. You obviously cannot witness on behalf of yourself, so my position is that you have no valid witnesses.

Quote:
...but I have a witness that you do not know.
Anonymous people cannot be witnesses. The operative property of a witness is that he can be identified to give testimony.

Quote:
You SEE it is the Creator that must validate his prophetic declarations.
That is not the meaning of the relevant scripture. The Creator is not human and therefore cannot be a witness within that meaning.

Quote:
But you are wrong about my knowledge of the Scriptures—
No, I am not. You display at best a third-grade understanding of scripture.

Quote:
it is as I have said, you do not understand the prophetic content in the Scriptures...
No, there is no magical body of knowledge that only you may possess and which magically saves you from all accusation of error. Logically that is called the fallacy of special pleading. We reject illogical arguments.
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Old 7th June 2017, 11:01 AM   #129
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It seems Paul Bethke has some ideological allies in the Trump Family:

“I mean, to me, they’re not even people,” [Eric] Trump said of congressional Democrats investigating Trumps campaign’s ties to the Russia.
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Old 7th June 2017, 10:27 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
I think that the promotion of drinking games is foolish - even at the reduced rate, we'd be loaded by lunch.

My beers won't ferment that fast man!
Haha......so true!

If we took a drink every time PB posted something stupid, no one would ever be sober.

That is why I wrote in my first post about it:

Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Good thing this is not a drinking game......
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Old 8th June 2017, 12:14 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No, I said you claimed to be your own witness. You obviously cannot witness on behalf of yourself, so my position is that you have no valid witnesses.
Anonymous people cannot be witnesses. The operative property of a witness is that he can be identified to give testimony.
That is not the meaning of the relevant scripture. The Creator is not human and therefore cannot be a witness within that meaning.
No, I am not. You display at best a third-grade understanding of scripture.
No, there is no magical body of knowledge that only you may possess and which magically saves you from all accusation of error. Logically that is called the fallacy of special pleading. We reject illogical arguments.
Prophecy is the understanding of the Scriptures in the current time.

In the past men were not given to understanding prophecy because they had neglected the most important decree that the Creator had put in place for all people for all time, AND that is a sanctified marriage, where a man and woman would never divorce, and the structure in society to maintain this.

So, because the SO-called Church never maintained this teaching, they lost the power to establish this injunction. The stance of the Church on this matter proves me correct.

True the Creator is not human, so he must work through a human, and he must bear witness to that human as being his witness.

This is collaborated in Scripture---Isaiah_43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I AM he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

So the first step is to prove that Yahweh is the ONLY Creator and there is no other. Then to establish his WORD as the only law (Torah) by which people will live.

Jesus then comes as a witness to confirm the WORD of Yahweh as the ONLY word by which people will live by, and he sends his disciples into the whole world to carry this out.

Act_1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Now the Church has faltered on the way and is no longer the witnesses to what Jesus decreed.

This being the case I now become the witness to establish the Scriptures as the authentic WORD of the Creator, and now the Creator will confirm this with signs and wonders as outlined in the Scriptures.

Paul the Apostle had the same experience in that he did not consult with others---Gal 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,
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Last edited by Paul Bethke; 8th June 2017 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 8th June 2017, 02:44 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Prophecy is the understanding of the Scriptures in the current time.

In the past men were not given to understanding prophecy because they had neglected the most important decree that the Creator had put in place for all people for all time, AND that is a sanctified marriage, where a man and woman would never divorce, and the structure in society to maintain this.

So, because the SO-called Church never maintained this teaching, they lost the power to establish this injunction. The stance of the Church on this matter proves me correct.

True the Creator is not human, so he must work through a human, and he must bear witness to that human as being his witness.

This is collaborated in Scripture---Isaiah_43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I AM he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

So the first step is to prove that Yahweh is the ONLY Creator and there is no other. Then to establish his WORD as the only law (Torah) by which people will live.

Jesus then comes as a witness to confirm the WORD of Yahweh as the ONLY word by which people will live by, and he sends his disciples into the whole world to carry this out.

Act_1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Now the Church has faltered on the way and is no longer the witnesses to what Jesus decreed.

This being the case I now become the witness to establish the Scriptures as the authentic WORD of the Creator, and now the Creator will confirm this with signs and wonders as outlined in the Scriptures.

Paul the Apostle had the same experience in that he did not consult with others---Gal 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,


Why do you keep lying about the definition of the word "prophesy?"

It's an absurd lie that nobody believes. More than that, its a foolish lie.
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Old 8th June 2017, 05:52 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Prophecy is the understanding of the Scriptures in the current time.
This is not the definition of prophesy in any dictionary, nor how the word is used in Scripture.

Stop bearing false witness.

Quote:
In the past men were not given to understanding prophecy because they had neglected the most important decree that the Creator had put in place for all people for all time, AND that is a sanctified marriage, where a man and woman would never divorce, and the structure in society to maintain this.
Yahweh was ready to straight up murder Abraham over circumcision. Yahweh is alleged to have destroyed two cities for their lack of charity and hospitality.
Jesus may have mentioned something about treating others as you yourself would want to be treated.

Your obsession with sex doesn't make the list.

Quote:
So, because the SO-called Church never maintained this teaching, they lost the power to establish this injunction. The stance of the Church on this matter proves me correct.
Most Churches are quite happy to accept and teach the "Do unto others" bit. Your personal obsession with sex is not proven correct by anything.

Quote:
True the Creator is not human, so he must work through a human, and he must bear witness to that human as being his witness.
No. Supernatural beings are not witnesses to themselves.

Quote:
This is collaborated in Scripture---Isaiah_43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I AM he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

So the first step is to prove that Yahweh is the ONLY Creator and there is no other. Then to establish his WORD as the only law (Torah) by which people will live.
Good luck with that.

Several thousands of years and there has been no definitive proof of any deity.

Quote:
Jesus then comes as a witness to confirm the WORD of Yahweh as the ONLY word by which people will live by, and he sends his disciples into the whole world to carry this out.

Act_1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
Jesus came, not as a witness to Yahweh's power, but rather as a sacrifice to Yahweh.

Not that what happened was a real sacrifice, with God giving Himself to himself so He could do what He wants to do anyways, but whatever floats your boat.

Quote:
Now the Church has faltered on the way and is no longer the witnesses to what Jesus decreed.
You're just upset they talk about other things then sex.

Quote:
This being the case I now become the witness to establish the Scriptures as the authentic WORD of the Creator, and now the Creator will confirm this with signs and wonders as outlined in the Scriptures.
And by bearing false witness with all your lying about the meaning of words, you are a bang-up witness for Yahweh the Bloody.

Seriously, you have 0 followers, and you are generally mocked and shunned for your interpretation of Scripture - you aren't going to establish squat at this rate.

Quote:
Paul the Apostle had the same experience in that he did not consult with others---Gal 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,

Paul didn't consult with others because he wanted ALL the power for himself. By claiming a divine revelation to preach to the Gentiles, he greatly expanded his base of potential followers, unlike James the Just who limited himself to Jews in accordance with Jewish tradition and was therefore far more restricted in his power base.
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Old 8th June 2017, 06:49 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Prophecy is the understanding of the Scriptures in the current time.
No it isn't. Consult a dictionary.

Quote:
True the Creator is not human, so he must work through a human, and he must bear witness to that human as being his witness.
No, that is not what the pertinent scripture means. Citing other examples of where the word "witness" appears in scripture does not change the pertinent meaning.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:06 AM   #135
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Thou Shalt Maybe Kill: 5 Bible Facts Everyone Gets Wrong

While an entertaining read, the section "The Rapture Isn't In The Bible" is particularly relevant to this thread. It also serves as a nice reminder that a good deal of the "End Times" nonsense spewed by televangelists and other con men is more "editorial creativity" than responsible Biblical scholarship.
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Old 8th June 2017, 03:25 PM   #136
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I generally put it down to, "All these other religions have End Of The World stories. Why can't we have one too?"
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Old 8th June 2017, 03:40 PM   #137
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Paul remember "pride goeth before a fall." Also you might have some concern as to how God thinks of you.
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:55 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by fibbermcgee View Post
Paul remember "pride goeth before a fall." Also you might have some concern as to how God thinks of you.
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
First you do not know how I started off, there can be no pride on my part, if you know what pride is.
All people have pride it is part of our life, but few can take pride in themselves, because everything we have comes from the accumulation of others.

I can take pride in my knowledge of electrical generation, but must take note that it is based on the progress made by others, and not exclusively on my achievement.

The same can be said of the faith, I base my faith on what is given and not on what I achieved in myself.
I have to acknowledge each and every individual in the Scriptures for their faith—that is why faith is a gift—the Creator gives us commands and we in faith obey these commands. So, without these commands we cannot have faith.

(1Co_4:7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? )

So, it is not pride in my achievements, but confidence in the faith.that I keep, as Paul the Apostle stated--

2Timothy_4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. [

So we who love the Creator keep the faith, which is the giver of all things, including the faith that we keep.

(Rom_5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

(Ephesians_2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—)

So I am a defender of the true faith in Christ.( Jude_1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the Saints.

So I am about the original FAITH—not this substitute!!!
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Old 9th June 2017, 05:04 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
First you do not know how I started off, there can be no pride on my part, if you know what pride is.
All people have pride it is part of our life, but few can take pride in themselves, because everything we have comes from the accumulation of others.
Pride - Noun

1. a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

2. a social group of lions.

We know what pride is because we have access to dictionaries and know how to use them. Unlike others who just make up their own definitions....

I would find that your claims here DO reflect pride on your part. You have claimed to have "perfect understanding" of Scripture, to be the one who will bring about the reformation of the Church, to be part of a select spiritual choir, etc. All of this perfectly captures the first meaning of "pride."

The problem is that your feelings in this case are not based on any objective reality. You are routinely corrected on the meaning of various scriptural passages, the history and sociology of Bronze and Iron Age Middle Eastern societies and the basic meanings of words, which demonstrates that you do not have a perfect understanding. Your excessive pride causes you to double down on perpetuating your lack of understanding, asserting that people with demonstrated knowledge are not as enlightened as yourself.

A humble person would recognize their own lack of knowledge or expertise and attempt to learn from others, adjusting their understanding to fit the facts, rather then insisting that the facts are wrong because they do not coincide with their prejudices.

Quote:
I can take pride in my knowledge of electrical generation, but must take note that it is based on the progress made by others, and not exclusively on my achievement.
Unless you are claiming to be the source of the knowledge of power generation take that pride. You learned it, you earned it.

Quote:
The same can be said of the faith, I base my faith on what is given and not on what I achieved in myself.
I have to acknowledge each and every individual in the Scriptures for their faith—that is why faith is a gift—the Creator gives us commands and we in faith obey these commands. So, without these commands we cannot have faith.
Faith - noun

1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something;
2. strong belief in religious doctrine, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Faith is not a gift from someone or something to you, it is a gift that you give to others - your belief in them to be able to do something, based on nothing more then your feelings.
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Old 9th June 2017, 05:50 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
First you do not know how I started off, there can be no pride on my part, if you know what pride is.

All people have pride it is part of our life, but few can take pride in themselves, because everything we have comes from the accumulation of others.



I can take pride in my knowledge of electrical generation, but must take note that it is based on the progress made by others, and not exclusively on my achievement.



The same can be said of the faith, I base my faith on what is given and not on what I achieved in myself.

I have to acknowledge each and every individual in the Scriptures for their faith—that is why faith is a gift—the Creator gives us commands and we in faith obey these commands. So, without these commands we cannot have faith.



(1Co_4:7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? )



So, it is not pride in my achievements, but confidence in the faith.that I keep, as Paul the Apostle stated--



2Timothy_4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. [



So we who love the Creator keep the faith, which is the giver of all things, including the faith that we keep.



(Rom_5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.



(Ephesians_2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—)



So I am a defender of the true faith in Christ.( Jude_1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the Saints.



So I am about the original FAITH—not this substitute!!!


That's right folks. The guy who claims he will do things God cannot claims to be without pride.
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Old 9th June 2017, 08:15 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
...there can be no pride on my part, if you know what pride is.
I know what pride is; there's no point in you trying to redefine it to get out of it. And yes, you're by far the most prideful Christian claimant I've ever met. And you're actually the second person I've met who claims to be a prophet of God. The first was the Mormon prophet of several years ago, who spoke at the funeral of a friend. Let that sink in.

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So I am about the original FAITH—not this substitute!!!
Yes, you claim to be a prophet, to be the only truly faithful Christian on planet Earth, to be able to succeed where God failed, and because of that to have a special role in the end times. Yeah, that's pride all right.
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Old 9th June 2017, 08:26 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I know what pride is; there's no point in you trying to redefine it to get out of it. And yes, you're by far the most prideful Christian claimant I've ever met. And you're actually the second person I've met who claims to be a prophet of God. The first was the Mormon prophet of several years ago, who spoke at the funeral of a friend. Let that sink in.



Yes, you claim to be a prophet, to be the only truly faithful Christian on planet Earth, to be able to succeed where God failed, and because of that to have a special role in the end times. Yeah, that's pride all right.
I'd love to see an example of someone he DOES consider prideful.
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Old 9th June 2017, 08:58 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I'd love to see an example of someone he DOES consider prideful.
I can think of someone, but saying the name would derail the thread.

Wait. What's the subject of the thread?

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Old 9th June 2017, 09:15 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
Wait. What's the subject of the thread?
Signs of the (Christian) end times. Which is, given the current participants, Paul Bethke's personal theories about the Christian end times. Which are, given Mr Bethke's well established nature, mostly involved with Bethke's claims of having a special role in the end times and preparing for them. Also adultery. Plenty of adultery.
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Old 9th June 2017, 09:16 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
I can think of someone, but saying the name would derail the thread.

Wait. What's the subject of the thread?

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I want a Paul Bethke => English dictionary.
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Old 9th June 2017, 09:56 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I want a Paul Bethke => English dictionary.
Every entry would just read "see Adultery."

But yes, Bethke's arguments rely quite heavily on redefining common words and then gaslighting people into accepting them. "You don't know what ______ is, which is why you post such outrageous things." We do see this a lot in various reformist Christian traditions. "When the Bible says ________, this can figuratively mean..." and we're off to the races. So we don't necessarily have to individualize the argument here except perhaps to note that Bethke does it a lot more than usual.

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It also serves as a nice reminder that a good deal of the "End Times" nonsense spewed by televangelists and other con men is more "editorial creativity" than responsible Biblical scholarship.
I honestly don't consider televangelists even to have a seat at the exegetical table. They're clearly businesses selling religion as a commodity. Zero scholarly integrity, as far as I'm concerned.

But in a larger sense, I think the "end times" rhetoric plays a big part in Fundamentalist rhetoric. They're literally trying to scare their followers into membership and obedience. Spend some time in the American south; it's frightening. I grew up in the Bible belt. It was all about Satan lurking around every corner, waiting to entrap you, and dire warnings about where you'll be when the trumpet sounds. I also lived through the Cold War, under the real threat of nuclear annihilation. Not even close to the sphincter-clenching rhetoric I heard coming from Fundamentalist doomsayers.
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Old 9th June 2017, 10:27 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I want a Paul Bethke => English dictionary.
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Every entry would just read "see Adultery."
Haha!

So true. In PB world "adultery" is like "42".........
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Old 9th June 2017, 12:00 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
.But in a larger sense, I think the "end times" rhetoric plays a big part in Fundamentalist rhetoric. They're literally trying to scare their followers into membership and obedience. Spend some time in the American south; it's frightening. I grew up in the Bible belt. It was all about Satan lurking around every corner, waiting to entrap you, and dire warnings about where you'll be when the trumpet sounds. I also lived through the Cold War, under the real threat of nuclear annihilation. Not even close to the sphincter-clenching rhetoric I heard coming from Fundamentalist doomsayers.
Yeah, it's almost as if they're actually worshipping Satan under the guise of Christianity. But fear is nothing new, or regional, in American religion, viz Sinners In The Hands of an Angry God.

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Old 9th June 2017, 12:59 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
Yeah, it's almost as if they're actually worshipping Satan under the guise of Christianity.
Sort of. The purpose of religion is not to create a god to be worshiped, but to create a devil to be feared. You can keep your followers in line much more effectively via fear than via love.
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Old 9th June 2017, 01:12 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Sort of. The purpose of religion is not to create a god to be worshiped, but to create a devil to be feared. You can keep your followers in line much more effectively via fear than via love.
Perhaps that's one reason the Mormons are losing ground. Satan isn't quite as scary without a proper "hell."
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Old 9th June 2017, 01:19 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Perhaps that's one reason the Mormons are losing ground. Satan isn't quite as scary without a proper "hell."
In Mormonism, hell is being served by a homosexual waiter who offers you a cocktail. The end times are accompanied by punch and cookies.
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Old 9th June 2017, 01:27 PM   #152
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Signs of the End Times - Part the Third

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
In Mormonism, hell is being served by a homosexual waiter who offers you a cocktail. The end times are accompanied by punch and cookies.


All I can say to that is thank whatever deity may or may not be out there for all the lessons I learned from bisexual women.

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Old 9th June 2017, 01:32 PM   #153
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Paul Bethke:

You assert that sex constitutes a marriage. Does oral sex count? I'm trying to figure out who I'm "really" married to according to your criteria, and the question of what exactly constitutes a "you're married now" interaction is highly relevant.

Does digital insertion count as a "marriage?"

Fellatio?

Cunnilingus?

Rimming?

Lesbians with strap-ons, are they married now?
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Old 9th June 2017, 06:10 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The end times are accompanied by punch and cookies.
So, then . . . no cakes and ale?
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Old 10th June 2017, 03:04 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Paul Bethke:

You assert that sex constitutes a marriage. Does oral sex count? I'm trying to figure out who I'm "really" married to according to your criteria, and the question of what exactly constitutes a "you're married now" interaction is highly relevant.

Does digital insertion count as a "marriage?"

Fellatio?

Cunnilingus?

Rimming?

Lesbians with strap-ons, are they married now?
Perhaps you are trying to be very clever—but you should know the answer.

Sex between a man and his wife should be pure—outside of this marriage it is as termed in Scripture as lewd.

Ezekiel_24:13 "'Now your impurity is lewdness. Because I tried to cleanse you but you would not be cleansed from your impurity, you will not be clean again until my wrath against you has subsided.

Rev 17:5 This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev_17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

So purity in marriage is not based on the filth in the world--so where do you stand>?
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Old 10th June 2017, 03:34 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Oh yeah, isn't he the guy who said that all the grass at the World Cup or something would turn brown, which of course never happened?
Yeah but that wasn't a failure because um....because.
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:07 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Every entry would just read "see Adultery."

But yes, Bethke's arguments rely quite heavily on redefining common words and then gaslighting people into accepting them. "You don't know what ______ is, which is why you post such outrageous things." We do see this a lot in various reformist Christian traditions. "When the Bible says ________, this can figuratively mean..." and we're off to the races. So we don't necessarily have to individualize the argument here except perhaps to note that Bethke does it a lot more than usual.



I honestly don't consider televangelists even to have a seat at the exegetical table. They're clearly businesses selling religion as a commodity. Zero scholarly integrity, as far as I'm concerned.

But in a larger sense, I think the "end times" rhetoric plays a big part in Fundamentalist rhetoric. They're literally trying to scare their followers into membership and obedience. Spend some time in the American south; it's frightening. I grew up in the Bible belt. It was all about Satan lurking around every corner, waiting to entrap you, and dire warnings about where you'll be when the trumpet sounds. I also lived through the Cold War, under the real threat of nuclear annihilation. Not even close to the sphincter-clenching rhetoric I heard coming from Fundamentalist doomsayers.
But I have no follows—I merely state what is written.

So, you reported me to the moderators, because I said you do not understand prophecy, which you do not.

Many people read literature which they do not understand, like this example--Acts 8:30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
Act 8:31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

So, I compare you to the eunuch.
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:18 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Paul Bethke:

You assert that sex constitutes a marriage. Does oral sex count? I'm trying to figure out who I'm "really" married to according to your criteria, and the question of what exactly constitutes a "you're married now" interaction is highly relevant.

Does digital insertion count as a "marriage?"

Fellatio?

Cunnilingus?

Rimming?

Lesbians with strap-ons, are they married now?

So Paul, If two (or more) consenting adults do these things together, how is your god an aggrieved party? I get he doesn't like it but how is your god in any way harmed or have a right to complain?
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:35 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
So Paul, If two (or more) consenting adults do these things together, how is your god an aggrieved party? I get he doesn't like it but how is your god in any way harmed or have a right to complain?
The Creator as it is written is grieved by the unholy conduct of people—therefor he give precepts of how people should conduct themselves in order to become holy and remain holy.
Two adults consenting does not make the act holy it is a man and his wife in a sanctified marriage.
It is said as is recorded--- Jas_1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Ezr 9:11 For we have disregarded the commands you gave through your servants the prophets when you said: 'The land you are entering to possess is a land polluted by the corruption of its peoples. By their detestable practices they have filled it with their impurity from one end to the other.

To keep oneself from pollution is to keep the commands of the Creator---so when you follow the detestable practices committed in the world, you destine yourself to hell.

Romans_12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
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Old 10th June 2017, 04:37 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The Creator as it is written is grieved by the unholy conduct of people—therefor he give precepts of how people should conduct themselves in order to become holy and remain holy.
Two adults consenting does not make the act holy it is a man and his wife in a sanctified marriage.
It is said as is recorded--- Jas_1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Ezr 9:11 For we have disregarded the commands you gave through your servants the prophets when you said: 'The land you are entering to possess is a land polluted by the corruption of its peoples. By their detestable practices they have filled it with their impurity from one end to the other.

To keep oneself from pollution is to keep the commands of the Creator---so when you follow the detestable practices committed in the world, you destine yourself to hell.

Romans_12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
But your creator doesn't have the authority to govern. The governed have not contented to his governance.
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