It CAN Happen Here....

Bob001

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A blogger has recorded week-by-week all the Trump atrocities that historically have characterized the beginnings of an authoritarian takeover:
The idea, she said, came from her post-election reading about how authoritarian governments take hold — often with incremental changes that seem shocking at first but quickly become normalized. Each post begins with: “Experts in authoritarianism advise to keep a list of things subtly changing around you, so you’ll remember.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...5fd8e0c288f_story.html?utm_term=.ff694ff00f22
https://medium.com/@Amy_Siskind
https://public.tableau.com/profile/...kindWeeklyListOfChanges_0/AmySiskindDashboard
 
If you check my posting history, You know how much I despise Donald Trump.
But still, I think some of this "doom Porn" is silly.
 
dudalb said:
If you check my posting history, You know how much I despise Donald Trump.
But still, I think some of this "doom Porn" is silly.
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The "doom porn" is a list of news articles detailing, among other things, how a foreign power influenced, hacked and possibly altered the result of the 2016 election, and how the resulting winner of that election is effectively dismantling oversight and checks and balances.

But yeah, it's just silly.
 
uke2se said:
The "doom porn" is a list of news articles detailing, among other things, how a foreign power influenced, hacked and possibly altered the result of the 2016 election, and how the resulting winner of that election is effectively dismantling oversight and checks and balances.

But yeah, it's just silly.
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Not silly, but I just do not see America on the verge of becoming a dictatorship.
If I wanted do I could point at how some on the left seem ok with using violence to silence their opponents,which is just as bad.
 
Wake me up when journalists start mysteriously, and not-so-mysteriously, dying, powerful opposition are railroaded into jail on minor or made-up charges, and a military helicopter attacks the Supreme Court who suspended the legislature to take it over themselves, then reversed themselves when they realized they went too far.
 
This is just pathetically sore losers.

Look, he's an embarrassing Berlusconi type figure. But he's not hitler and the USA will survive him just fine.

This hysterical sky is falling nonsense is unbecoming adult citizens.
 
dudalb said:
Not silly, but I just do not see America on the verge of becoming a dictatorship.
If I wanted do I could point at how some on the left seem ok with using violence to silence their opponents,which is just as bad.
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Probably not on the verge, but on its way. Do you think that just because you aren't quite there yet it's nothing to worry about?
 
Beerina said:
Wake me up when journalists start mysteriously, and not-so-mysteriously, dying, powerful opposition are railroaded into jail on minor or made-up charges, and a military helicopter attacks the Supreme Court who suspended the legislature to take it over themselves, then reversed themselves when they realized they went too far.
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Interesting that you would use those examples. A Trumpet on CNN defended Trump in similar terms, and archconservative Charles Krauthammer responded:
“When you defend the president of the United States by pointing out that he hasn’t sent the tanks out in the streets to shut down the media, you’ve reached a fairly low level of defense,” Krauthammer countered.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ika-brzezinski-tweets/?utm_term=.6033cb325ef2

We have a right to expect better than we're getting from Trump,.
 
Giz said:
This is just pathetically sore losers.

Look, he's an embarrassing Berlusconi type figure. But he's not hitler and the USA will survive him just fine.

This hysterical sky is falling nonsense is unbecoming adult citizens.
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You might note that the list consists of news articles. Are you accusing the media of being hysterical when they report on the things Trump and his cronies do?
 
uke2se said:
You might note that the list consists of news articles. Are you accusing the media of being hysterical when they report on the things Trump and his cronies do?
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Yes, a lot of the media are being hysterical and fear mongering.
 
Giz said:
This is just pathetically sore losers.

Look, he's an embarrassing Berlusconi type figure. But he's not hitler and the USA will survive him just fine.

This hysterical sky is falling nonsense is unbecoming adult citizens.
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Trump is making decisions that will have long-term, potentially irreversible consequences. Cutting health insurance coverage for the poor leads directly to deaths. Cutting environmental protections allows damaging effects that could have been prevented. Cutting taxes for the richest people in the country increases deficits and reduces money available for all programs. Putting right-wing jurists on the Supreme Court shapes the laws for generations. Etc., etc.
 
Giz said:
Yes, a lot of the media are being hysterical and fear mongering.
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The media reports the facts. If you think hysteria and fear are the result, that says something about the facts, doesn't it?
 
Giz said:
Yes, a lot of the media are being hysterical and fear mongering.
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You have to distinguish between the reporting and the commentary.
I think the Washington Post's commentary on Trump is a little over the top,but their reporting on him is damaging,becasue they can back it up.
 
uke2se said:
For reporting what Trump does?
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I'll try and make it simple for you:

There is non-hysterical, sober reporting. And then there is Daily Mail hysteria and taking the worst possible exaggerated interpretation of everything.

That is what a lot of the press are doing - behaving like the daily mail. (you do accept that the daily mail exists, right? that the press can behave irresponsibly?)
 
Bob001 said:
Interesting that you would use those examples. A Trumpet on CNN defended Trump in similar terms, and archconservative Charles Krauthammer responded:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ika-brzezinski-tweets/?utm_term=.6033cb325ef2

We have a right to expect better than we're getting from Trump,.
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And Krauthammer ain't no Liberal......


And THAT is a major problem I have with a lot of people here.......that anybody who is has conservative views...ie,might be skeptical of big government.....is either evil,an idiot, or both.
If Trump was a liberal but behaving the same way, I would be just as opposed to him. I can't say I think a lot of people here would do the same.
 
Beerina said:
Wake me up when journalists start mysteriously, and not-so-mysteriously, dying, powerful opposition are railroaded into jail on minor or made-up charges, and a military helicopter attacks the Supreme Court who suspended the legislature to take it over themselves, then reversed themselves when they realized they went too far.
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So be reactionary rather than pro-active.

Gotcha.

Uh, no.
 
Giz said:
I'll try and make it simple for you:

There is non-hysterical, sober reporting. And then there is Daily Mail hysteria and taking the worst possible exaggerated interpretation of everything.

That is what a lot of the press are doing - behaving like the daily mail. (you do accept that the daily mail exists, right? that the press can behave irresponsibly?)
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US Journalism a bit different then what you see in Britian is that..although there are exception...as far as print media goes, there is a strong tradition of separation of the News Division and the Editorial Page. That does not exist as strongly in the UK.
 
dudalb said:
You have to distinguish between the reporting and the commentary.
I think the Washington Post's commentary on Trump is a little over the top, but their reporting on him is damaging, because they can back it up.
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Yes, agreed - and compiling reports of his missteps is a useful exercise. But what I am decrying is the over the top hysteria (i.e. "it can happen here", "week by week all the Trump atrocities"). I mean, substitute "embarrassment" for "atrocity" and the second quote seems OK... but "atrocity", come on.
 
Giz said:
I'll try and make it simple for you:

There is non-hysterical, sober reporting. And then there is Daily Mail hysteria and taking the worst possible exaggerated interpretation of everything.

That is what a lot of the press are doing - behaving like the daily mail. (you do accept that the daily mail exists, right? that the press can behave irresponsibly?)
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Which articles in the list are you talking about specifically?

For example, is reporting the link between the private prison industry and Trump hysterical?

Is reporting that Trump has deals with convicted criminals, or that some of his businesses are being accused for being money laundering operations hysterical?

How about the fact that Trump made 669 false or misleading claims during his first 151 days in power? Is reporting that hysterical?
 
Bob001 said:
Trump is making decisions that will have long-term, potentially irreversible consequences. Cutting health insurance coverage for the poor leads directly to deaths. Cutting environmental protections allows damaging effects that could have been prevented. Cutting taxes for the richest people in the country increases deficits and reduces money available for all programs. Putting right-wing jurists on the Supreme Court shapes the laws for generations. Etc., etc.
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Yes, he's returning us to the despotic dystopian hell hole of 6 and half years ago. That's the kind of histrionic that folks are talking about.
 
uke2se said:
Which articles in the list are you talking about specifically?

For example, is reporting the link between the private prison industry and Trump hysterical?

Is reporting that Trump has deals with convicted criminals, or that some of his businesses are being accused for being money laundering operations hysterical?

How about the fact that Trump made 669 false or misleading claims during his first 151 days in power? Is reporting that hysterical?
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No but calling them all atrocities and listing in a blog called, "It can't happen here" is hysterical.

Edit, More importantly, its counter productive. I and I bet the vast majority of voters, aren't going to pay a bit of attention to a blog called, "it can't happen here", I can't even read it because my eyes roll every time I see the title.
 
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ahhell said:
No but calling them all atrocities and listing in a blog called, "It can't happen here" is hysterical.
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Ok, so it's the title that's hysterical. I could have sworn Giz was saying that media were exaggerating like the daily mail and wasn't referring to the title of this blog post.

Oh wait... he was...

I'll try and make it simple for you:

There is non-hysterical, sober reporting. And then there is Daily Mail hysteria and taking the worst possible exaggerated interpretation of everything.

That is what a lot of the press are doing - behaving like the daily mail. (you do accept that the daily mail exists, right? that the press can behave irresponsibly?)
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So, I gather that you don't think any of the actual contents of the blog post (the numerous news articles depicting the things Trump and his cronies are doing to sabotage US democracy, the Russian meddling in the US election etc) is hysterical, but calling them "atrocities" are, and saying it could happen here (which it is) is.
 
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Bob001 said:
Trump is making decisions that will have long-term, potentially irreversible consequences. Cutting health insurance coverage for the poor leads directly to deaths. Cutting environmental protections allows damaging effects that could have been prevented. Cutting taxes for the richest people in the country increases deficits and reduces money available for all programs. Putting right-wing jurists on the Supreme Court shapes the laws for generations. Etc., etc.
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Seems like he's doing what a lot of politicians have done for...mmmyeah, years.
 
I can't speak to the daily mail, I don't read. Its entirely possible that its as hysterical as Giz suggests. There is however a lot of breathless reporting on every silly thing trump does as though its a disaster and plenty of things he does that Obama and Bush and others have done that went completely unnoticed.
 
ahhell said:
I can't speak to the daily mail, I don't read. Its entirely possible that its as hysterical as Giz suggests. There is however a lot of breathless reporting on every silly thing trump does as though its a disaster and plenty of things he does that Obama and Bush and others have done that went completely unnoticed.
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Maybe you can specify which articles in the list provided by the blog in question are examples of such "breathless" reporting, whatever that means?
 
uke2se said:
Maybe you can specify which articles in the list provided by the blog in question are examples of such "breathless" reporting, whatever that means?
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That would more than a little effort, not least because of the previous mentioned eye problem.

I will point out her authoritarian change number 82.
Trump has yet to pass a single piece of major legislation despite control of the House and Senate. He seems largely disinterested and disengaged in this sphere.
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ahhell said:
That would more than a little effort, not least because of the previous mentioned eye problem.

I will point out her authoritarian change number 82.
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Is that breathless reporting by the media? Is it untrue? Is it not significant?
 
uke2se said:
Is that breathless reporting by the media? Is it untrue? Is it not significant?
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Its certainly not significant and if included in a list of authoritarian changes, its arguably breathless. She's isn't the media really so, there's that. If I only had a dime for every time someone called Hitler, disinterested and disengaged.
 
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ahhell said:
Its certainly not significant and if included in a list of authoritarian changes, its arguably breathless. She's isn't the media really so, there's that.
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Exactly. We are talking about the articles, right?

I agree that it isn't an example of authoritarian changes. I'll even agree that a lot of the articles provided in that list aren't examples of such. However, taken as a whole, the articles paint a picture of a kleptocratic regime that is intent on undermining US democracy with the help of a foreign power, hostile to US interests.

That's enough to leave you actually breathless.

ETA: And when your defense of a US president is "at least he's not Hitler", you know you have a problem.
 
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ahhell said:
I can't speak to the daily mail, I don't read. Its entirely possible that its as hysterical as Giz suggests. There is however a lot of breathless reporting on every silly thing trump does as though its a disaster and plenty of things he does that Obama and Bush and others have done that went completely unnoticed.
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In case it was not noted above, most Brits refer to the DM as The Daily Fail. This should give you the general idea of the quality of it's journalism!!!!!
 
uke2se said:
Exactly. We are talking about the articles, right?

I agree that it isn't an example of authoritarian changes. I'll even agree that a lot of the articles provided in that list aren't examples of such. However, taken as a whole, the articles paint a picture of a kleptocratic regime that is intent on undermining US democracy with the help of a foreign power, hostile to US interests.

That's enough to leave you actually breathless.

ETA: And when your defense of a US president is "at least he's not Hitler", you know you have a problem.
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Nonsense, its a picture of an incompetent and ineffectual administration led by an ignoramous.

The blog starts with:
After the last two months, I will never say never, again. At times, I refer back to the stuff that I have read, and recorded in my Weekly Authoritarianism List. Any one of these items would be the shock. The collection of them, and lack of consequences has changed me — and I suspect us all — and that is why I am doing the list: so we can trace our way back to normal when this nightmare is over.
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and ends with, trump can't get anything done.

I'm not defending Trump by saying he's not Hitler, I'm attacking the likes of this blogger that desperately wish he was.

ETA: Seriously, its an "authoritarian list" that includes, nothing much happened today and its reported on in the Washington Post(I think, I can't get through the pay wall)... This **** hurts the anti-trump side by making it look like a bunch of hysterical children.
 
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ahhell said:
Nonsense, its a picture of an incompetent and ineffectual administration led by an ignoramous.

The blog starts with:
and ends with, trump can't get anything done.
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Point is, he's obviously trying, as are his cronies in the House. Him trying and failing to create laws that go against US values is only marginally better than him trying and succeeding.

But maybe you'd rather wait and see for 3+ more years, hoping he keeps failing?

ahhell said:
I'm not defending Trump by saying he's not Hitler, I'm attacking the likes of this blogger that desperately wish he was.
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Yes, you were defending Trump by saying he's not Hitler. This blogger hasn't to my knowledge said that Trump is Hitler. She's collecting news articles that describe what the Trump regime is doing.
 
uke2se said:
Yes, you were defending Trump by saying he's not Hitler.
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Tbf, he never actually said that, he said: if I only had a dime for every time someone called Hitler, disinterested and disengaged.

We went through this same nonsense when Bush was in office, and no doubt we'll go through it again when some other bellend gets brought in. Same over here in the UK.

Trump is a goon, but I don't see him being this axis of evil-type character from a Captain America comic-book.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
Tbf, he never actually said that, he said: if I only had a dime for every time someone called Hitler, disinterested and disengaged.

We went through this same nonsense when Bush was in office, and no doubt we'll go through it again when some other bellend gets brought in. Same over here in the UK.

Trump is a goon, but I don't see him being this axis of evil-type character from a Captain America comic-book.
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Situation now is very different from when Bush was president.

Do you think him trying and failing to implement laws that go against US values (well, human values really) is an ok state of being, and that speaking up against it is being breathlessly hysterical?
 
dudalb said:
And Krauthammer ain't no Liberal......


And THAT is a major problem I have with a lot of people here.......that anybody who is has conservative views...ie,might be skeptical of big government.....is either evil,an idiot, or both.
If Trump was a liberal but behaving the same way, I would be just as opposed to him. I can't say I think a lot of people here would do the same.
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:thumbsup:
 
dudalb said:
And Krauthammer ain't no Liberal......


And THAT is a major problem I have with a lot of people here.......that anybody who is has conservative views...ie,might be skeptical of big government.....is either evil,an idiot, or both.
If Trump was a liberal but behaving the same way, I would be just as opposed to him. I can't say I think a lot of people here would do the same.
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What's the reason for your belief?

If Trump was a liberal he wouldn't have been elected, because his stated policies were extreme right ones. If he had different stated policies he wouldn't be doing the same thing that he is now.

That said, if Trump was a liberal and was doing the same thing he is doing now, nobody would even believe he was a liberal, and everyone would be saying the same as they are now.
 
uke2se said:
You might note that the list consists of news articles. Are you accusing the media of being hysterical when they report on the things Trump and his cronies do?
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We must be reading separate links because the one I'm reading is not reporting on newspaper articles but that of a left-wing ideologue who describes herself as an "advocate for women's & LGBT rights, and equality." The Huffington Post describes her as such: "Amy Siskind is a national spokesperson, writer and expert on helping women and girls advance and succeed. A highly successful Wall Street executive, she's Co-founder and President of The New Agenda, a national organization working on issues including economic independence and advancement, gender representation and bias, sexual assault and domestic violence.



Does she name these so-called experts in authoritarianism? Can someone help out, I can't find them listed on her blog, am I just supposed to take her word as the undeniable truth?

Take some of the examples from the first post on her blog (it's the first available post even though it starts on week three of Trump's presidency) titled Week 3: Experts in authoritarianism advise to keep a list of things subtly changing around you, so you’ll remember.



#1 "SPLC issued a startling report on the profoundly negative impact of the election results on our schools and children. This in addition to 867 cases of hate attacks in the 10 days post election, and 892 active hate groups."

The Southern Poverty Law Center? That deserves a :dl:

She actually links to a SPLC study that conveniently forgot to mention all the hate crimes reported against white students. So no, there were no subtle changes proving Trump's authoritarianism, just more proof that the SPLC continued to be the biased, hack organization that it has always been.


#2 Reports nationwide, including our college campuses, of women being grabbed by the genitals, and being told a variation of “it’s no big deal.”

Nope. No subtle change here. Her and her ilk had been breathlessly reporting about the rape epidemic on college campuses long before Trump was elected. In fact, she swallowed the UVA rape hoaxhook, line and sinker, even went as far as to blame the "entertainment media" on why young men couldn't couldn't prevent themselves from raping.


#3 "Trump continues to be disinteresed in availing himself of daily intelligence briefings."

Again, no subtle changes proving Trump's authoritarianism. She must've missed how the prior president missed a whole truckload of daily intelligence briefings.


#4 "Our news cycles now being led by Trump’s Twitter account. Our media seems unable to do anything but follow along."

Wuuut??? The press following someone's twitter account is a sign of authoritarianism?

(I'm going to stop there because this is worse than picking apart any random thread at infowars.com)

As Giz said, "hysterical." And not in the 'hysterical, ha ha' kind of way.

A news outlet as esteemed as the Washington Post should never give a person of this caliber the time of day to highlight her totally unhinged anti-Trump rantings.
 
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Beerina said:
Wake me up when journalists start mysteriously, and not-so-mysteriously, dying, powerful opposition are railroaded into jail on minor or made-up charges, and a military helicopter attacks the Supreme Court who suspended the legislature to take it over themselves, then reversed themselves when they realized they went too far.
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Be a little late by then, wouldn't it?

Don't you think it would be smarter to head things off before they reached that stage?
 
Bogative said:
We must be reading separate links because the one I'm reading is not reporting on newspaper articles but that of a left-wing ideologue who describes herself as an "advocate for women's & LGBT rights, and equality." The Huffington Post describes her as such: "Amy Siskind is a national spokesperson, writer and expert on helping women and girls advance and succeed. A highly successful Wall Street executive, she's Co-founder and President of The New Agenda, a national organization working on issues including economic independence and advancement, gender representation and bias, sexual assault and domestic violence.
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If you'd read the blog, you'd note that the bullet points all link to news articles.


Bogative said:
Does she name these so-called experts in authoritarianism? Can someone help out, I can't find them listed on her blog, am I just supposed to take her word as the undeniable truth?
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You could google it. There's quite a few experts in authoritarianism that has raised the red flag over Trump's actions.

Bogative said:
#1 "SPLC issued a startling report on the profoundly negative impact of the election results on our schools and children. This in addition to 867 cases of hate attacks in the 10 days post election, and 892 active hate groups."

The Southern Poverty Law Center? That deserves a :dl:
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The SPLC is somehow not a trusted source now? Too "anti-anti-semitic" for your tastes?

Bogative said:
She actually links to a SPLC study that conveniently forgot to mention all the hate crimes reported against white students. So no, there were no subtle changes proving Trump's authoritarianism, just more proof that the SPLC continued to be the biased, hack organization that it has always been.
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You should write an article of all the hate crimes committed against white students, and then explain how that diminishes the hate crimes committed against non-white students.

Bogative said:
#2 Reports nationwide, including our college campuses, of women being grabbed by the genitals, and being told a variation of “it’s no big deal.”

Nope. No subtle change here. Her and her ilk had been breathlessly reporting about the rape epidemic on college campuses long before Trump was elected. In fact, she swallowed the UVA rape hoaxhook, line and sinker, even went as far as to blame the "entertainment media" on why young men couldn't couldn't prevent themselves from raping.
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Maybe she believes rapes in colleges is a bad thing? Or are you saying it doesn't happen?

Bogative said:
#3 "Trump continues to be disinteresed in availing himself of daily intelligence briefings."

Again, no subtle changes proving Trump's authoritarianism. She must've missed how the prior president missed a whole truckload of daily intelligence briefings.
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Yeah, there's no difference between half and none.

Bogative said:
#4 "Our news cycles now being led by Trump’s Twitter account. Our media seems unable to do anything but follow along."

Wuuut??? The press following someone's twitter account is a sign of authoritarianism?
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Someone ruling by twitter decree and avoiding the press is a sign of authoritarianism.

Bogative said:
(I'm going to stop there because this is worse than picking apart any random thread at infowars.com)
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You're not very good at it. Also, isn't infowars.com a trusted right wing news outlet now?

Bogative said:
As Giz said, "hysterical." And not in the 'hysterical, ha ha' kind of way.
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Maybe you could say what news articles in the blog are particularly hysterical? Nobody else seems to be able to.

Bogative said:
A news outlet as esteemed as the Washington Post should never give a person of this caliber the time of day to highlight her totally unhinged anti-Trump rantings.
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The world is leaving your kind behind. It's a welcomed divorce.
 
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