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Tags New Zealand elections , New Zealand politics

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Old 13th September 2017, 05:40 PM   #161
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This bit really pisses me off

"Our policy also cracks down on those who are exploiting weaknesses in the tax system by speculating in the housing market. Labour will end the practice of negative gearing, and extend the current bright line test that taxes the capital gain on the sale of a property other than the family home to five years."


When I pass my home (the family home that my children grew up in) to my children, becasue they have already worked their arses off and have family homes of their own, they will have to pay tax on the whole value of my home because it will attract CGT.

This is death duties/inheritance tax by subterfuge. Government sponsored theft.

If these clowns end up on the treasury benches, I will have to start gifting my house to my children through a trust so that the Bozos can't get their hands on any of it.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:49 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Funnily enough, that's just about exactly what National is promising.
As Henry L. Mencken once said:
Quote:
No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2011/...stimating.html

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Ardern does a complete flip flop on all Labours taxes 9 days before the election
Isn't she supposed to say "READ - MY - LIPS!" or something?
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:56 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
When I pass my home (the family home that my children grew up in) to my children, becasue they have already worked their arses off and have family homes of their own, they will have to pay tax on the whole value of my home because it will attract CGT.
Doesn't CGT calculations start from the time that you kids gain possession of the house? (ie if they sell the house 1 year after inheriting it then there would only be 1 year's worth of capital gain to tax).

When my remaining parent died, my nephew rented her house until it was sold. We had 2 years from her death to sell the house before CGT kicked in.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:53 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Ardern does a complete flip flop on all Labours taxes 9 days before the election
First mistake she's made, in my opinion.

She had the trust of the voters, the smart move was to parlay that, not back down.

Probably cost them the win.

C'est la vie. Three more years of National. Property investors will be delighted.

Personally, I was happy to trade a little capital gain for social justice, but that's just me.
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Old 13th September 2017, 11:22 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
First mistake she's made, in my opinion.

She had the trust of the voters, the smart move was to parlay that, not back down.

Probably cost them the win.

C'est la vie. Three more years of National. Property investors will be delighted.

Personally, I was happy to trade a little capital gain for social justice, but that's just me.
I think given Robertson's fronting it and slipping into the "I think" accidently every interview, that today wasn't really her decision

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Old 14th September 2017, 12:57 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think given Robertson's fronting it and slipping into the "I think" accidently every interview, that today wasn't really her decision
I think that announcing too many new taxes is not a smart thing to do in the lead up to an election. Add to that, Jacinda's steadfast refusal to be pinned down on details is starting to wear a bit thin.

On top of all that, they have refused to rule out CGT on the family home. "We have no plans", and "Its not in our thinking" are not denials, they are phrases that politicians use when they want to keep their options open.

Finally, politicians can claim all they want that they will have public consultations and working groups and the like, but everyone knows the reality; that the government will do exactly what it wants regardless of what the public want. Remember the last time a NZ government thumbed their nose at the public will... it was Helen Clark and the anti smacking Law.

In 2007 a CI referendum was started, to ask New Zealanders

Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?,

Now even though the Referendum wasn't held until 2009 after Labour had been defeated in the 2008 General Election, Helen Clarke arrogantly declared that she didn't care what the poll result was going to be, she was going to introduce a law to criminalise parents.

No-one knew it yet but the poll result was going to be 12% - 88% - the NZ public overwhelmingly did NOT want parents criminalised. Helen led Labour to their worst election defeat in years - a 16 seat 13% swing against them, and the the Nats ended up in government and have been there ever since.

What happens when you give the NZ public the finger? They bite you on the arse, that's what.
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Old 14th September 2017, 03:51 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Remember the last time a NZ government thumbed their nose at the public will... it was Helen Clark and the anti smacking Law.
You meant the law that didn't have the numbers until John Key and National decided to support it as well and carried it over the finishing line, only to then shut up about what they'd done and blame Labour for it all after realising that they might take some of the heat if anyone remembered what they had done... that law?
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Old 14th September 2017, 06:06 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You meant the law that didn't have the numbers until John Key and National decided to support it as well and carried it over the finishing line, only to then shut up about what they'd done and blame Labour for it all after realising that they might take some of the heat if anyone remembered what they had done... that law?
I remember it differently

The Nats included a KEY (no pun intended) bit of the legislation that neither Helen Clarke nor that horrible Bradford woman wanted included.

Section 59
(4) To avoid doubt, it is affirmed that the Police have the discretion not to prosecute complaints against a parent of a child or person in the place of a parent of a child in relation to an offence involving the use of force against a child, where the offence is considered to be so inconsequential that there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution.


Without this amendment, the Police would have been required to investigate and subsequently required prosecute even the slightest use of force by a parent. Clarke made it very clear at Select Committee level that she did not want this amendment included. the absence if this mitigating clause was the reason she couldn’t get the numbers; even members of her own party were uncomfortable with her stance. Kiwis generally don't like busybody social engineers interfering in their family and parenting matters, especially ones who have never been parents themselves.
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Old 16th September 2017, 04:11 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Clarke made it very clear at Select Committee level that she did not want this amendment included.
Which is why you don't have childless people making rules for parents.

It was idiotic and indeed one of the more spectacular fails in political history.
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:18 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I remember it differently

The Nats included a KEY (no pun intended) bit of the legislation that neither Helen Clarke nor that horrible Bradford woman wanted included.

Section 59
(4) To avoid doubt, it is affirmed that the Police have the discretion not to prosecute complaints against a parent of a child or person in the place of a parent of a child in relation to an offence involving the use of force against a child, where the offence is considered to be so inconsequential that there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution.


Without this amendment, the Police would have been required to investigate and subsequently required prosecute even the slightest use of force by a parent. Clarke made it very clear at Select Committee level that she did not want this amendment included. the absence if this mitigating clause was the reason she couldn’t get the numbers; even members of her own party were uncomfortable with her stance. Kiwis generally don't like busybody social engineers interfering in their family and parenting matters, especially ones who have never been parents themselves.
And without them getting it added and then supporting it, the bill would not have actually passed. Yes they got a safe guard in, but the fact is the without the Key and the Nats supporting the amended Bill, it never would have passed.
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Old 16th September 2017, 05:49 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
First mistake she's made, in my opinion.

She had the trust of the voters, the smart move was to parlay that, not back down.

Probably cost them the win.

C'est la vie. Three more years of National. Property investors will be delighted.

Personally, I was happy to trade a little capital gain for social justice, but that's just me.
I can't see why. The residential property fund has performed way beyond expectations. The standard model suggests woeful underperformance for a decade or two, so a CGT is now an expensive waste of time. If John Key had been fiscally responsible he would have garnered 100 billion in his time from land bankers and lazy rental owners. He engineered the massive gains after polling intensively. It worked, and even original supporters deplore his front running the real estate game.
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Old 16th September 2017, 06:40 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
And without them getting it added and then supporting it, the bill would not have actually passed. Yes they got a safe guard in, but the fact is the without the Key and the Nats supporting the amended Bill, it never would have passed.
Completely wrong in every aspect.

Parliamentary seats (121) in 2007
Labour 50
National 48
NZ First 7
Green 6
ACT 2
Maori 4
United Future 3
Progressive 1

This means that it needed only 61 votes to pass.

Labour, Greens, Maori, NZ First, Progressives and United Future all supported the legislation although one member of United Future resigned over the Bill because he objected to party leader Peter Dunne's support for it. That is 71 votes, so even if the Nats didn't allow their members to vote as they wished (conscience vote) it was always going to pass anyway.

In the end, it passed 113-8


ETA:

The tragedy of all this is that this pointless piece of ill-considered legislation is like a a dead albatross hanging around the neck of its instigator, that horrid Bradford woman, because, as many of us predicted would happen at the time, it has done NOTHING to abate our disgraceful record of abusing and killing children!
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Old 16th September 2017, 07:22 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The standard model suggests woeful underperformance for a decade or two, so a CGT is now an expensive waste of time.
Models are irrelevant when supply is short, and it will be, since migration will continue to be open.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
If John Key had been fiscally responsible he would have garnered 100 billion in his time from land bankers and lazy rental owners. He engineered the massive gains after polling intensively. It worked, and even original supporters deplore his front running the real estate game.
Rubbish. If any of them cared he would have been kicked out three years ago, whereas if he were still leading National they'd be 10-15 pips in front right now.
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Old 16th September 2017, 08:11 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Completely wrong in every aspect.

Parliamentary seats (121) in 2007
Labour 50
National 48
NZ First 7
Green 6
ACT 2
Maori 4
United Future 3
Progressive 1

This means that it needed only 61 votes to pass.

Labour, Greens, Maori, NZ First, Progressives and United Future all supported the legislation although one member of United Future resigned over the Bill because he objected to party leader Peter Dunne's support for it. That is 71 votes, so even if the Nats didn't allow their members to vote as they wished (conscience vote) it was always going to pass anyway.

In the end, it passed 113-8


ETA:

The tragedy of all this is that this pointless piece of ill-considered legislation is like a a dead albatross hanging around the neck of its instigator, that horrid Bradford woman, because, as many of us predicted would happen at the time, it has done NOTHING to abate our disgraceful record of abusing and killing children!
You making a error in that you are assuming that those that voted for the bill after the amendment that National gained were voting for it prior to the amendment being made. They weren't, and since it required Labour to do a deal with National to get the bill through, that shows that they didn't have the numbers. If they had the votes prior to the amendment as you claim, then why make the amendment at all?

If all the parties you claimed were in support prior to the amendment were there they would have had 70 votes minimum, no need for National, yet news stories of the time were calling it "rocky" and saying that it would be hard to pass. That was because only Labour, the Progressives and the Greens were supporting it prior to the amendment giving them 57. The Maori party was not committed for or against it, and National was giving a conscience vote on it, though as Key was against it at the time, it might have been hard to get the 4 votes from them. NZ First was against it until the amendment was added.

So no, it didn't have the numbers until the change was made and National and NZ First changed to supporting it.
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Old 16th September 2017, 08:46 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You making a error in that you are assuming that those that voted for the bill after the amendment that National gained were voting for it prior to the amendment being made. They weren't, and since it required Labour to do a deal with National to get the bill through, that shows that they didn't have the numbers. If they had the votes prior to the amendment as you claim, then why make the amendment at all?

If all the parties you claimed were in support prior to the amendment were there they would have had 70 votes minimum, no need for National, yet news stories of the time were calling it "rocky" and saying that it would be hard to pass. That was because only Labour, the Progressives and the Greens were supporting it prior to the amendment giving them 57. The Maori party was not committed for or against it, and National was giving a conscience vote on it, though as Key was against it at the time, it might have been hard to get the 4 votes from them. NZ First was against it until the amendment was added.

So no, it didn't have the numbers until the change was made and National and NZ First changed to supporting it.
We'll have to agree to differ. That is not at all how I remember it
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Old 16th September 2017, 09:08 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Models are irrelevant when supply is short, and it will be, since migration will continue to be open.



Rubbish. If any of them cared he would have been kicked out three years ago, whereas if he were still leading National they'd be 10-15 pips in front right now.
There is always a reason it's different this time, this bubble will double.
You may be right, but it is an odd community to savour, one where the essential service providers are resigned to existing, not living.
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Old 18th September 2017, 07:46 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
There is always a reason it's different this time, this bubble will double.
Yeah, I'd be confident the presses can keep up the money supply for a double from here.

One thing I was thinking about in these uninflationary times: if you look at the average value of cars on the road now v 2000-2005, I'd be willing to lay good odds it's double, even adjusting for what little inflation we've had.

The excess money from the banking system is being spent, but not causing inflation, because it's all being spent on luxury items - cars, boats, 75" TVs...

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You may be right, but it is an odd community to savour, one where the essential service providers are resigned to existing, not living.
You're beating my drum, mate - I've been pointing out the teaching & medical crises for years.

I am not savouring it a bit and think it's absurdly selfish & short-sighted and it will all build into immense pain for one and all. I find it incredible that the teacher shortage isn't one of the very highest election issues.

But hey, some dickhead cocky busts one fuel pipe and it's Armageddon.
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Old 20th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #178
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Bit of a fizzer with that last debate. To me, Ardern came across as too grumpy, English as too bored.

What Ardern was thinking by saying we will gift 250 million on a spare pipe to the fuel companies and airport escapes me.

Labour's perceived reputation for thinking that money grows on trees will not be helped
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Old 20th September 2017, 04:23 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You're beating my drum, mate - I've been pointing out the teaching & medical crises for years.

I am not savouring it a bit and think it's absurdly selfish & short-sighted and it will all build into immense pain for one and all. I find it incredible that the teacher shortage isn't one of the very highest election issues.
The teacher shortage crisis is, in part, down to a significant problem with recruiting.... they are only able to recruit from about half the population... the female half. Males do not want to be involved in teaching, especially at the early childhood and primary end of the student age scale. Only 2% of early childhood teachers are men, and I have personally seen it borne out - I attended my daughter's graduation from the Christchurch College of Education back in the early 2000's - there were 175 students who graduated as teachers that year... 173 of them were women.

I used to be a teacher (I went into teaching when I retired from the military) but I would never go back to it so long as it is run the way it has been for the last 20 years. There are far too many politically correct, sandal-wearing feminazis with long, dangly earrings and no. 1 haircuts pulling the strings in teaching in this country. Its a hostile environment for males, where those who must be obeyed class you as "potential rapist". Its no wonder most men don't want a bar of it.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
But hey, some dickhead cocky busts one fuel pipe and it's Armageddon.
That was fake news.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/969...ort-travellers
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Old 21st September 2017, 01:56 PM   #180
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This is what the election should be being fought on, not CGT/tax: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11924968
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Old 21st September 2017, 02:59 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
This is what the election should be being fought on, not CGT/tax: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11924968
The vast majority of that article is crap parents
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Old 21st September 2017, 11:22 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The vast majority of that article is crap parents
And the reason they are crap parents is because they learned it from their parents, and their parents, and..... The way to break the cycle is not to say "it's the fault of their crap parents," but rather to intervene and teach them how not to be crap parents to their kids and so stop the next generation from being crap parents too.
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Old 21st September 2017, 11:58 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
And the reason they are crap parents is because they learned it from their parents, and their parents, and..... The way to break the cycle is not to say "it's the fault of their crap parents," but rather to intervene and teach them how not to be crap parents to their kids and so stop the next generation from being crap parents too.
Very nice and very idealistic, but in the real world things are never as simple as that. Crap parents (by their very nature) tend to not like being told they are crap parents, and tend not to be very receptive to listening to or learning from those doing the telling.
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Old 22nd September 2017, 01:17 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
And the reason they are crap parents is because they learned it from their parents, and their parents, and..... The way to break the cycle is not to say "it's the fault of their crap parents," but rather to intervene and teach them how not to be crap parents to their kids and so stop the next generation from being crap parents too.
I don't think their parents taught them to rape their kids or siblings.

If they cant work out that is wrong I think you're onto a bit of a loser trying to get them to work out not feeding their kids is wrong.

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

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Old 22nd September 2017, 10:35 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
God, I'm so pleased people are putting the big issues up front this election...

Am I the only one who thinks Ardern deliberately or inadvertently is strikingly like a young St Helen?
Originally Posted by smartcooky
No.

You're not the only one!
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf
Eyes, cheeks, mouth, and nose are quite different. Hair, face shape, and chin are really the only similarities.
Because the most important thing about a female candidate is what she looks like.

Jacinda Ardern
Quote:
Ardern joined the Labour Party herself at a young age, and became a senior figure in the Young Labour branch of the party. After graduating from university, she spent time working in the offices of Phil Goff and of Helen Clark as a researcher. She later spent time in London, working as a senior policy advisor to Tony Blair...

Ardern has described herself as a social democrat, a progressive, a republican, and a feminist... affirmed her support for the welfare state as "a necessary safety net... has spoken in support of trade unions... opposed the National Party's plans for income tax cuts for high-income earners.

Ardern voted in favour of the 2013 Marriage Equality Bill, a bill which allowed same-sex couples to legally marry... supports liberalization of abortion laws ... student loans being kept interest-free... Māori language... a lower rate of immigration... increase the intake of refugees... carbon emission reduction... removing the monarch of New Zealand as its head of state.
So many issues to be considered, but first and foremost is her looks!
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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:57 AM   #186
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Bit of a fizzle

Looks like the Nats again



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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 23rd September 2017, 10:45 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
So many issues to be considered, but first and foremost is her looks!
Thanks for your utterly stupid and ill-informed comment.

What she looks like is neither first nor foremost, and that would be abundantly clear to anyone who knows diddly-squat about the subject, the stage of discussion, and what her attributes actually are.

Jesus, the forum really must be dying when people are so bereft of topics they join in things they know absolutely nothing about and have no connection to, only so they can make an ignorant comment.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Bit of a fizzle

Looks like the Nats again
Easy. Winston's chain will be pretty short, too, because English could easily make a case for a minority government since there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell Winnie will ever go into coalition with the Greenmunists.

C'est la vie.

Alas, I really think Ardern did a Lange on Labour. That "no new taxes" bollocks was too reminiscent of Lange's "cup of tea", and the polls certainly turned right then.

Three more *********** years...
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Old 23rd September 2017, 10:49 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Very nice and very idealistic, but in the real world things are never as simple as that. Crap parents (by their very nature) tend to not like being told they are crap parents, and tend not to be very receptive to listening to or learning from those doing the telling.
On that basis, I'd say you should be pretty happy then - three more years of ignoring those problems. Like Johnny Key once said "Meh, the parents are all druggies and losers anyway."

The subtle point that you and Cully - and Sir John - miss is that their problems become our problems. Those parents don't live in a vacuum.

What do you think drives crime, third-world disease and poverty?

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know for a fact that doing nothing is not working.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 12:10 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
On that basis, I'd say you should be pretty happy then - three more years of ignoring those problems. Like Johnny Key once said "Meh, the parents are all druggies and losers anyway."

The subtle point that you and Cully - and Sir John - miss is that their problems become our problems. Those parents don't live in a vacuum.

What do you think drives crime, third-world disease and poverty?

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know for a fact that doing nothing is not working.
I'm not saying that we should do nothing about it, I'm saying that merely getting together with crap parents and having a chummy talkfest does nothing to fix the problem, they will just tell you to **** off and stay out of their business.

I'd start off by holding parents legally to account for misdemeanours and crimes committed by their children living with them who have yet to reach the age of majority. Force them to take responsibility as parents and punish them if they don't.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 02:17 PM   #190
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I'm the end Labour finished about the same as Shearer was polling before they shafted him and the union's forced their 2 union losers in.

Good job by Ardern, but it was hardly the second coming



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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 23rd September 2017, 02:47 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I'd start off by holding parents legally to account for misdemeanours and crimes committed by their children living with them who have yet to reach the age of majority. Force them to take responsibility as parents and punish them if they don't.
Will you hold the parents of rich white kids that go and commit crimes because daddy is a lawyer and will get them out of trouble to the same standard?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 03:39 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Will you hold the parents of rich white kids that go and commit crimes because daddy is a lawyer and will get them out of trouble to the same standard?
We're talking about child abuse and not providing lack of basic necessitys in a child's life by parents, not shoplifting and doing drugs by the kid.



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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

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Old 23rd September 2017, 04:47 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Will you hold the parents of rich white kids that go and commit crimes because daddy is a lawyer and will get them out of trouble to the same standard?
Absolutely, so long as they are under age and living at home.

But look, we had a 13/14 year old boy who used to live a few doors away from where I used to live. He was out at all times of the night and early hours of the morning, and the cops used to bring him back home. His parents were essentially useless, didn't give a fat rats arse about what he did in his spare time. They tried counseling and diversion when he committed petty crimes. No change. This sort of crap should not have been allowed to happen. The Law should allow the courts to put a curfew on the boy, and if he's found out again at 2-3am, fine the parents heavily. Put the onus on them to be responsible for his whereabouts.
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Old 24th September 2017, 02:31 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I'd start off by holding parents legally to account for misdemeanours and crimes committed by their children living with them who have yet to reach the age of majority. Force them to take responsibility as parents and punish them if they don't.
So, instead of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, you'd swap it for a cop car. That's going to work.

You cannot force people to do anything. Whatever the answer is, I bet a carrot will work much better than a stick.
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Old 24th September 2017, 03:35 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
So, instead of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, you'd swap it for a cop car.
Nope. The Jail cell reserved for career crims is at the bottom of the cliff... the cop car is at the top

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's going to work.
Yes

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You cannot force people to do anything. Whatever the answer is, I bet a carrot will work much better than a stick.
Both works even better.
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Old 24th September 2017, 08:33 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I'd start off by holding parents legally to account for misdemeanours and crimes committed by their children living with them who have yet to reach the age of majority. Force them to take responsibility as parents and punish them if they don't.
I agree. You are legally responsible if your dog attacks somebody but not if your kids do. That's ridiculous! Of course, measures need to to be taken to protect parents who are unable to control their children.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
So, instead of the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, you'd swap it for a cop car. That's going to work.
What sort of strawman nonsense is this?
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:45 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Both works even better.
I have yet to see evidence that punitive and/or custodial sentences for parents has a positive effect, so if you have some, bring it on.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What sort of strawman nonsense is this?
I take it you don't know what a strawman is, because that can't be one. SC had mentioned a punitive approach, which is the exact position of the metaphor.

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Meanwhile, I'm hearing a lot of talk from alleged insiders regarding a NZF/Labour government.

If Jacinda has any brains she'll give the PM spot to Winnie to gain a collective approach on housing & immigration, which would be outstanding.

Watch this space!
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:25 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Meanwhile, I'm hearing a lot of talk from alleged insiders regarding a NZF/Labour government.

If Jacinda has any brains she'll give the PM spot to Winnie to gain a collective approach on housing & immigration, which would be outstanding.

Watch this space!
Clark wouldn't let her



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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 26th September 2017, 11:41 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Clark wouldn't let her
Sorry, but while St Helen is making comments from the sidelines, her input will be zero.
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Old 26th September 2017, 12:10 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Sorry, but while St Helen is making comments from the sidelines, her input will be zero.
Jacinda is BFFs with Clark

Clark as well as having a wealth of experience as PM, has a wealth of experience negotiating successful deals with Winston to form governments.

To not have Clark involved would be incredibly stupid. In fact it would be a bit laughable.

And Ardern isn't stupid
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