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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 7th September 2017, 12:09 AM   #401
Tony Stark
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Trump can still veto it so I'm not sure what that buys them
Then he will be personally to blame for the government shutting down and the US government defaulting on its debt.


Quote:
Of course they can say whatever they like. By being seem to be opposed to government spending spiraling out of control they can continue to pretend to be the party of fiscal responsibility.
Not when their own leaders pass it and their president signs it into law.


Quote:
Doesn't matter. The fact that the Democratic Party supported kicking the can down the road for a few months means that they now "own" the consequences. If there is a shutdown in a few months because the GOP refuse to approve the debt ceiling increase and/or they attach all kinds of unacceptable conditions to it, the Democratic Party will be blamed for cutting a deal in September 2017 which didn't fix the problem - even though a fix is impossible.

IOW, they touched it last so they own it.
Nonsense given that Republicans have Congress and the Presidency. Assuming they pass the bill (they very likely will).


Quote:
I disagree, Trump has given them two valuable things, he's given them the opportunity to say that they opposed this reckless increase of the debt ceiling and he's made the Democratic Party "responsible" for what happens in a few months.

If a deal is made then, the GOP get the credit. If a deal cannot be made and government shuts down then it's the Democratic Party's fault for not dealing with it properly three months earlier (i.e. now) or in six months time (i.e. on the GOP's preferred timetable).
Again, nonsense, for the reasons I stated above. Without McConnell, Ryan, and Trump, the first bill will not pass.

There is a very good reason Republicans are upset. And it is not because they are very good actors playing 13D chess.

Last edited by Tony Stark; 7th September 2017 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:55 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Then he will be personally to blame for the government shutting down and the US government defaulting on its debt.
You'll have to educate me on how President Trump vetoing DACA would inevitably lead to a government shutdown and the US government defaulting on its debt.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Not when their own leaders pass it and their president signs it into law.
But this is exactly the GOP MO and has been for years (decades ?). Be vocally and virulently against something for the benefit of the cameras (and the base) but quietly wave it on through.

IMO this will become the "Democratic Party 3 month debt ceiling extension" which will be followed by the Democratic Party pre-Christmas debt crisis.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Nonsense given that Republicans have Congress and the Presidency. Assuming they pass the bill (they very likely will).
The GOP managed to be an obstructionist party throughout Obama's Presidency and still managed to outsource the blame to Obama. Placing the blame for the crisis which will follow the 3 month debt ceiling extension at the feet of the Democratic Party will be a piece of cake.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Again, nonsense, for the reasons I stated above. Without McConnell, Ryan, and Trump, the first bill will not pass.

There is a very good reason Republicans are upset. And it is not because they are very good actors playing 13D chess.
Sure they are are upset - they didn't get exactly what they wanted, a longer debt ceiling extension - but IMO they'll find a way to make whatever results, the Democratic Party's fault. With the US electorate you don't need to play 13D chess, you just need to construct a narrative and stick to it, regardless of the facts.

The GOP has demonstrated that they're really good at it. The Democratic Party seem to be hobbled in this regard, they seem to like at least a basis in fact else someone dissents from the chosen narrative.

So if the bill passes then the narrative becomes that the Democratic Party, in order to continue their unfettered spending, used the victims of the Houston hurricane as pawns in an attempt to gain political advantage - Bad democrats !

If the bill does not pass then the GOP leadership fought a brave rearguard action on behalf of the American people to stop the above.
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Old 7th September 2017, 01:09 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
You'll have to educate me on how President Trump vetoing DACA would inevitably lead to a government shutdown and the US government defaulting on its debt.
Because, hypothetically, it would be tied to such things.

Quote:
But this is exactly the GOP MO and has been for years (decades ?). Be vocally and virulently against something for the benefit of the cameras (and the base) but quietly wave it on through.

IMO this will become the "Democratic Party 3 month debt ceiling extension" which will be followed by the Democratic Party pre-Christmas debt crisis.
There is no way they can spin that when their own leaders and president pass it.

Quote:
The GOP managed to be an obstructionist party throughout Obama's Presidency and still managed to outsource the blame to Obama. Placing the blame for the crisis which will follow the 3 month debt ceiling extension at the feet of the Democratic Party will be a piece of cake.
Because a Democrat was President. There is no way they can blame Democrats for passing bill when they control Congress and the Presidency.



Quote:
Sure they are are upset - they didn't get exactly what they wanted, a longer debt ceiling extension - but IMO they'll find a way to make whatever results, the Democratic Party's fault. With the US electorate you don't need to play 13D chess, you just need to construct a narrative and stick to it, regardless of the facts.

The GOP has demonstrated that they're really good at it. The Democratic Party seem to be hobbled in this regard, they seem to like at least a basis in fact else someone dissents from the chosen narrative.

So if the bill passes then the narrative becomes that the Democratic Party, in order to continue their unfettered spending, used the victims of the Houston hurricane as pawns in an attempt to gain political advantage - Bad democrats !

If the bill does not pass then the GOP leadership fought a brave rearguard action on behalf of the American people to stop the above.
They can't blame Democrats for a bill that they passed and their president signed! It is seriously baffling to me how you don't understand this.

This was total victory on behalf of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. And there is a very good chance that Trump did it on purpose. He doesn't give a **** about the Republican party.
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Old 7th September 2017, 01:46 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Because, hypothetically, it would be tied to such things.
In which case that gives the President another "out". He wasn't willing to be blackmailed by a Democratic Party which wanted a US overrun with foreigners.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
There is no way they can spin that when their own leaders and president pass it.
Of course they can spin it that way, Ryan and McConnell are on record as opposing it.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Because a Democrat was President. There is no way they can blame Democrats for passing bill when they control Congress and the Presidency.
Of course they can, it goes something like this.

The President was primarily concerned about the victims of Hurricane Harvey and in order to get the funding in the short term that he needed to move forward with the disaster relief, he needed the debt ceiling lifted.

The GOP wanted to take a fiscally responsible course which would have had the debt ceiling lifted for a longer period but the obstructionist Democrats were dead set against this, and demanded a three month time limit instead - holding the victims of Hurricane Harvey hostage for their own political gain.

The President, being concerned about the victims of Hurricane Harvey, reluctantly agreed to this putting the needs of the country above those of the party. When the **** hits the fan in three months time it'll be the Democratic Party's fault because they're the ones who held the the victims of Hurricane Harvey to ransom.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
They can't blame Democrats for a bill that they passed and their president signed! It is seriously baffling to me how you don't understand this.
Of course they can.

If, in three months time, things actually turn out to be fine then it's The President's dealmaking that swung it.

If the debt ceiling extension proves problematic in 3 months time then it'll be the Democratic Party's fault for insisting on such a short timescale.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
This was total victory on behalf of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. And there is a very good chance that Trump did it on purpose. He doesn't give a **** about the Republican party.
I guess I just don't see how this is a victory for the Democratic Party. The GOP gets to continue on doing its thing, in three months time there'll be a debt ceiling crisis for which the Democratic Party is responsible (because they insisted on the three months time window) and the GOP leadership can claim that if it was up to them, instead of a crisis just before Christmas, there would have been an orderly process much later.
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Old 7th September 2017, 01:50 AM   #405
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The Republican President agreed to this and Republican leaders in Congress will probably go along with it when they absolutely did not want to. I seriously don't know what else it will take for you to get it.

What do you think Democrats should have done. Just give Republicans (minus) Trump what they wanted. I bet you would be saying it is bad for them in that case.

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Old 7th September 2017, 02:14 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
The Republican President agreed to this and Republican leaders in Congress will probably go along with it when they absolutely did not want to. I seriously don't know what else it will take for you to get it.
If Republican leaders in Congress are so opposed to it, they wouldn't be going along with it however much they squeal. To me this looks like they got their second prize, they don't have to shut down the government and the timescales for the debt negotiations can now be blamed on the Democrats holding the poor Hurricane Harvey victims hostage.

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
What do you think Democrats should have done. Just give Republicans (minus) Trump what they wanted. I bet you would be saying it is bad for them in that case.
Hell no, they shouldn't have given the GOP what they wanted, but giving them a decent second prize like this isn't ideal.

Unless of course this is exactly, and the totality of, what the Democratic Party wanted, a three month debt window extension - no assurances over Obamacare, no assurances over DACA, no assurances over impeachment or Presidential behaviour - in which case I congratulate them on getting exactly what they wanted and criticise them for the paucity of their ambition.

Ordinarily engineering a rift between President and party would be an achievement and something to strive for but in this case neither Trump nor the GOP seem to care so much. Trump continues to Trump and the GOP backs him up. The GOP continues in the background with its agenda of removing environmental protections, cutting off funding to government programmes, dismantling civil rights and so on.
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:16 AM   #407
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The Don, this article makes clear what the Democrats have won with this.

Basically, it's about leverage in the appropriations debate in December. That's a big thing, and the Democrats have been given a place at the table with this, a place that they wouldn't otherwise have had.

The article also notes, however, that it's Trump they're dealing with, and that he could change his mind in a Tweet in a matter of hours.
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:26 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If Republican leaders in Congress are so opposed to it, they wouldn't be going along with it however much they squeal. To me this looks like they got their second prize, they don't have to shut down the government and the timescales for the debt negotiations can now be blamed on the Democrats holding the poor Hurricane Harvey victims hostage.
They don't have much of a choice but to go with it given that their own president is in favor.

Quote:

Hell no, they shouldn't have given the GOP what they wanted, but giving them a decent second prize like this isn't ideal.

Unless of course this is exactly, and the totality of, what the Democratic Party wanted, a three month debt window extension - no assurances over Obamacare, no assurances over DACA, no assurances over impeachment or Presidential behaviour - in which case I congratulate them on getting exactly what they wanted and criticise them for the paucity of their ambition.

Ordinarily engineering a rift between President and party would be an achievement and something to strive for but in this case neither Trump nor the GOP seem to care so much. Trump continues to Trump and the GOP backs him up. The GOP continues in the background with its agenda of removing environmental protections, cutting off funding to government programmes, dismantling civil rights and so on.
Forcing them to do this again in a few months is not second prize. It is total defeat given that Republicans control Congress and the Presidency.
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:26 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The Don, this article makes clear what the Democrats have won with this.

Basically, it's about leverage in the appropriations debate in December. That's a big thing, and the Democrats have been given a place at the table with this, a place that they wouldn't otherwise have had.
They think that they might be able to get some of their stuff through if the December debt ceiling negotiations turn out to be ugly enough. Okay I can see how that might work for them.

OTOH I think they underestimate the President's volatility and have misjudged the GOP's ability to spin the narrative in their favour.

Come December, the GOP will be saying that if the Democratic Party hadn't held Hurricane Harvey victims hostage then the GOP would have been able to secure an 18 month deficit ceiling deal and avoided all this end-of-year unpleasantness. It's all the Democratic Party's fault.

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The article also notes, however, that it's Trump they're dealing with, and that he could change his mind in a Tweet in a matter of hours.
Definitely this would be a worry.
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:36 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Come December, the GOP will be saying that if the Democratic Party hadn't held Hurricane Harvey victims hostage then the GOP would have been able to secure an 18 month deficit ceiling deal and avoided all this end-of-year unpleasantness. It's all the Democratic Party's fault.
This will be something that the Republicans passed when they have control! They can't blame it on the Democrats. I am extremely baffled by your belief that they can somehow blame it on the Democrats!
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:44 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
This will be something that the Republicans passed when they have control! They can't blame it on the Democrats. I am extremely baffled by your belief that they can somehow blame it on the Democrats!
As President Trump himself said:

Quote:
"We agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred, very important."
So the three month window is a Democratic Party idea - they own it and the consequences following from it.

Now if the deal makes it through congress the GOP can spin it that, although the deal wasn't what they wanted or what they would have chosen for themselves, they needed to make sure that the victims of Hurricane Harvey got the relief they needed. The obstructionist Democrats refused to do the right thing and agree to an 18 month debt extension, held the Harvey victims hostage and reluctantly the GOP agreed, in the short term national interest.
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:50 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As President Trump himself said:



So the three month window is a Democratic Party idea - they own it and the consequences following from it.

Now if the deal makes it through congress the GOP can spin it that, although the deal wasn't what they wanted or what they would have chosen for themselves, they needed to make sure that the victims of Hurricane Harvey got the relief they needed. The obstructionist Democrats refused to do the right thing and agree to an 18 month debt extension, held the Harvey victims hostage and reluctantly the GOP agreed, in the short term national interest.
Republicans will own it since their own president agreed to it right away, the Republican leaders in Congress allowed it to pass, and their president signed it into law.

There is a very good reason Republicans are not happy about this: because Pelosi and Schumer won.

You are absurdly wrong.
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Old 7th September 2017, 03:02 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Republicans will own it since their own president agreed to it right away, the Republican leaders in Congress allowed it to pass, and their president signed it into law.

There is a very good reason Republicans are not happy about this: because Pelosi and Schumer won.

You are absurdly wrong.
I probably am, but I'm eager to see what they have won.

From my perspective it's the opportunity to be blamed for the timing of the next set of debt re-negotiation talks. If they think that they now have the President's ear, I think they are overestimating his steadfastness, he'll forget that this ever happened and remember only two things:
  • He personally cut this great deal which allowed victims of Hurricane Harvey to get the aid they so badly needed over the objections of the obstructionist Democratic Party
  • The Democratic Party are responsible for the terrible deal which means that the debt ceiling needs to be renegotiated in 3 months

And no, he won't realise that those two things are exactly the same
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Old 7th September 2017, 03:10 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I probably am, but I'm eager to see what they have won.

From my perspective it's the opportunity to be blamed for the timing of the next set of debt re-negotiation talks. If they think that they now have the President's ear, I think they are overestimating his steadfastness, he'll forget that this ever happened and remember only two things:
  • He personally cut this great deal which allowed victims of Hurricane Harvey to get the aid they so badly needed over the objections of the obstructionist Democratic Party
  • The Democratic Party are responsible for the terrible deal which means that the debt ceiling needs to be renegotiated in 3 months

And no, he won't realise that those two things are exactly the same
I don't think they believe they have the president's ear. They're too smart for that, and Trump is too fickle and they know it. However, the Democratic party leadership must work hard to make the party relevant in the legislative process. The GOP is in the position to overrun them completely. This "deal" allows them to, as I said, have a place at the table. The GOP has to deal with the Democrats now.

The drawback is, as you say, that the GOP could spin blame on them for failing to raise the debt-ceiling long term, but most people will see that for what it is: BS.
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Old 7th September 2017, 03:18 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The drawback is, as you say, that the GOP could spin blame on them for failing to raise the debt-ceiling long term, but most people will see that for what it is: BS.
I'm not so sure. Look at the proportion of the US electorate who were sure that Hillary had something to hide over Whitewater, uranium deals, Benghazi and Emails despite all the evidence to the contrary simply because the GOP repeated the lie over, and over, and over, and over.

Look at the proportion of people who think that Obama was to blame for the US' poor response to Katrina or that he is a Muslim or born outside the US.

Facts simply do not matter any more to a significant slice of the US electorate so long as a lie is consistently repeated - and the GOP are exceptionally good at that.
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Old 7th September 2017, 03:32 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not so sure. Look at the proportion of the US electorate who were sure that Hillary had something to hide over Whitewater, uranium deals, Benghazi and Emails despite all the evidence to the contrary simply because the GOP repeated the lie over, and over, and over, and over.

Look at the proportion of people who think that Obama was to blame for the US' poor response to Katrina or that he is a Muslim or born outside the US.

Facts simply do not matter any more to a significant slice of the US electorate so long as a lie is consistently repeated - and the GOP are exceptionally good at that.
I think this is true for any electorate, anywhere. The difference between US and some other countries is that a party found a way to present the lies to the electorate in a way that will make their lies believable.

Analysis of support for Trump shows that about 20% of the US electorate are downright retards and geniuinely support Trump because they think he's doing a good job. The actual number is probably higher because it doesn't include retards who oppose Trump on ideological grounds, but would accept comparable behavior from someone on their side of the spectrum. I'll guesstimate the total number to be around 30%, which is not drastically different to what we saw in France when there were two ideologically opposed candidates competing for the retard vote won a total of 40% of the vote - the situation in France was compounded by recent terrorist attacks that lifted Le Pen.

The situation is somewhat worsened by the two party system. In a country like France the gullable are split between several parties, as exemplified by the relative success of Mechelon and Le Pen. Both competed for the retard vote, but because there were more choices competing for them the retard vote didn't concentrate nearly as well as it otherwise could and neither scored a major upset. In the complete absence of Mechelon from politics some of his voters would pick Le Pen. Not many, perhaps but enough for her to become a major force in French politics.

US doesn't have that luxury so a major party gets to gobble up the retard vote plus a good deal of sane voters who perfer them for other reasons. They're losing that to an extent as we speak, but are shielded by the lack of a viable alternative. If the retards win it could be a decade or two before one forms, if it forms at all.

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Old 7th September 2017, 03:39 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
The Republican President agreed to this and Republican leaders in Congress will probably go along with it when they absolutely did not want to. I seriously don't know what else it will take for you to get it.

What do you think Democrats should have done. Just give Republicans (minus) Trump what they wanted. I bet you would be saying it is bad for them in that case.
I'm with The Don over this. Remember this is not about facts, logic nor reason it is about "narrative" and Trump and the Republicans have shown time and time again they know how to make a narrative stick.

The facts are sadly utterly and completely irrelevant.
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Old 7th September 2017, 03:59 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm with The Don over this. Remember this is not about facts, logic nor reason it is about "narrative" and Trump and the Republicans have shown time and time again they know how to make a narrative stick.

The facts are sadly utterly and completely irrelevant.
This is true but who Trump cut the deal with matters. He didn't do this Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. It was with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer; the two Democrats that have been promoted as the standard bearers for the out of touch coastal elites by their fact free media. There's a history of lies he's attempting to swim against.
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Old 7th September 2017, 04:14 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
This is true but who Trump cut the deal with matters. He didn't do this Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. It was with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer; the two Democrats that have been promoted as the standard bearers for the out of touch coastal elites by their fact free media. There's a history of lies he's attempting to swim against.
But as we know lies simply don't exist in Trump's world, what is "true" is simply what he is saying at the moment. (And looking at his continued support with his base, his base agrees with him.)
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Old 7th September 2017, 04:23 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But as we know lies simply don't exist in Trump's world, what is "true" is simply what he is saying at the moment. (And looking at his continued support with his base, his base agrees with him.)
Exactly, he'll take credit for the great deal he cut while at the same time blaming the Democratic Party for their terrible Christmas fiscal cliff.
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Old 7th September 2017, 07:28 AM   #421
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"The First White President"

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For Trump, it almost seems that the fact of Obama, the fact of a black president, insulted him personally. The insult intensified when Obama and Seth Meyers publicly humiliated him at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner in 2011. But the bloody heirloom ensures the last laugh. Replacing Obama is not enough—Trump has made the negation of Obama’s legacy the foundation of his own. And this too is whiteness. “Race is an idea, not a fact,” the historian Nell Irvin Painter has written, and essential to the construct of a “white race” is the idea of not being a ******. Before Barack Obama, ******* could be manufactured out of Sister Souljahs, Willie Hortons, and Dusky Sallys. But Donald Trump arrived in the wake of something more potent—an entire ****** presidency with ****** health care, ****** climate accords, and ****** justice reform, all of which could be targeted for destruction or redemption, thus reifying the idea of being white. Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president. And so it will not suffice to say that Trump is a white man like all the others who rose to become president. He must be called by his rightful honorific—America’s first white president.
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Old 7th September 2017, 07:44 AM   #422
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I really think that some of you guys are over thinking this. Trump screwed the GOP. Perhaps intentionally. It is that simple.
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:00 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I really think that some of you guys are over thinking this. Trump screwed the GOP. Perhaps intentionally. It is that simple.
I think you're underestimating the GOP's powers of self delusion and self preservation. Sure they didn't get the result they wanted but now they have three months to work on their response to the "Democrat-triggered debt ceiling crisis".

By then they will spent three months describing how the Democrats held Hurricane Harvey victims hostage, compelling The President to make a deal for the good of the country and how if only there had been a little more time (and less Democrat intransigence) the GOP would have negotiated an 18 month debt ceiling increase. So the reason why the country is facing a debt cliff just before Christmas are those despicable Democrats - boooooooooooo !

As far as The President goes, he patting himself on the back for making a great deal but in three months time it will be the horrible Democrats who are responsible for the fiscal cliff just before Christmas.
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:56 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I really think that some of you guys are over thinking this. Trump screwed the GOP. Perhaps intentionally. It is that simple.
In a sane world proper consequences would accrue. But not in this world. While Trump's an idiot who probably can't see beyond his next tweet, the GOP will be busily beavering to turn any such 'disadantage' to their benefit. The Don outlines the framework of their nefarious thinking rather well, it seems to me. Why, in this instance it could turn out to be a veritable blueprint. The nobler democratic instinct must never lose sight of this mode of operation by the opposition that relies on the insistent pounding of a twisted narrative into the collective head of the electorate. In a case of the "Harvey victims being held hostage", this can be dangerous in that it can poison the thinking of the more undecided voters. The Dems have got to head that off at the pass, to not allow such a notion to gain traction.
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Old 7th September 2017, 09:05 AM   #425
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Yes, leverage to pass a DACA-bill.

Trump doesn't want to veto DACA, it makes him look bad. Sessions is the one who wanted to end DACA. He wanted to end it when he was a Senator.

Trump wants to sign bills, he thinks that makes him look accomplished.

I don't think we should underestimate the racist people Trump surrounded himself with who are no doubt pushing their agendas. And I believe the evidence that Trump is a racist. But there is that bad publicity which trumps Trump's racism.
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Old 7th September 2017, 10:45 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sessions is the one who wanted to end DACA. He wanted to end it when he was a Senator.
Ain't that the truth. When he announced the end to DACA he was so excited he looked like he was gonna pee his pants.
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Old 7th September 2017, 10:49 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
Ain't that the truth. When he announced the end to DACA he was so excited he looked like he was gonna pee his pants.
He also seems to get excited by natural disasters. First it was the Houston floods being the biggest natural disaster and now it's as if Irma being the biggest Atlantic hurricane ever recorded was some sort of endorsement of his personal greatness.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:24 AM   #428
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Quote:
Many Republicans were furious with President Donald Trump's budget deal Wednesday, stunned that the president quickly gave into Democratic demands to pair hurricane relief with a three-month debt limit hike — while getting nothing in return.

But in calls with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi Thursday morning, Trump raved about the positive news coverage it had received, according to people familiar with the calls, and he seemed very pleased with his decision.

Trump specifically mentioned TV segments praising the deal and indicated he'd been watching in a call with Schumer, two people said. And he was jovial in a call with Pelosi and agreed to send a tweet she asked for about the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, these people said, while also mentioning the attention the deal had gotten. He indicated to both leaders he would be willing to work together again.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...overage-242441
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:46 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Trump lies so I wouldn't count on pledges to work together made to today to still stand tomorrow.

Tomorrow the Democratic Party will be back to being the obstructionist bad guys when they don't give him exactly what he wants - like Obamacare repeal and replace.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:48 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
He also seems to get excited by natural disasters. First it was the Houston floods being the biggest natural disaster and now it's as if Irma being the biggest Atlantic hurricane ever recorded was some sort of endorsement of his personal greatness.
Sessions or Trump ?

I think carrps was referring to Sessions being so excited that he looked as though he was going to pee his pants.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:54 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sessions or Trump ?

I think carrps was referring to Sessions being so excited that he looked as though he was going to pee his pants.
Sorry replied to the wrong post, but the point stands.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:54 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
He also seems to get excited by natural disasters. First it was the Houston floods being the biggest natural disaster and now it's as if Irma being the biggest Atlantic hurricane ever recorded was some sort of endorsement of his personal greatness.
That's Trump. Carrps was talking about Sessions.

Trump's narcissism shows when he imagines himself the savior after a 'uge storm. Better that than imagining himself a war POTUS like GW did.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:58 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Trump lies so I wouldn't count on pledges to work together made to today to still stand tomorrow.
No but I would count on him being easily manipulated as long as there is Trump-praise in there for him somewhere.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Tomorrow the Democratic Party will be back to being the obstructionist bad guys when they don't give him exactly what he wants - like Obamacare repeal and replace.
I dunno, maybe Schumer and Pelosi have figured out the formula for dealing with Trump, you have to get positive news coverage.

While Ryan and McConnell are suffering the frustration of finding out it's more than just smiling and telling him how blessed they are to be working with him. This is one of those times when reality's liberal bias might just come in handy.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:02 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No but I would count on him being easily manipulated as long as there is Trump-praise in there for him somewhere.

I dunno, maybe Schumer and Pelosi have figured out the formula for dealing with Trump, you have to get positive news coverage.
But doesn't that mean that the Democratic Party has to work with Trump so that he can deliver his agenda - and more importantly to generate positive press coverage for him ?

A Trump receiving positive press coverage is a Trump more likely to be re-elected in 2020
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:08 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
the GOP will be busily beavering to turn any such 'disadantage' to their benefit.
For sure, but... just how much 'benefit' will they actually manage to get out of it? Trump may be incompetent, but is the GOP any better? Recent events suggest they aren't.

Let us not forget that Trump was not their first choice - he was forced on them because all their preferred candidates were useless (so much for the GOP master plan). For while it looked like they were making the best of it and still getting what they wanted, but now...

It will be interesting to see how many in Trump's base continue to follow him now that he is courting Democrats, and how many show us that their true allegiance has always been elsewhere. Whatever the split, it still means weakened support for the GOP.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:15 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
But doesn't that mean that the Democratic Party has to work with Trump so that he can deliver his agenda - and more importantly to generate positive press coverage for him ?
Yes! Positive press for Trump, but also for Democrats.

As for Trump's 'agenda', that changes with the wind anyway. The only 'constant' is that it must generate positive press for Trump.

Quote:
A Trump receiving positive press coverage is a Trump more likely to be re-elected in 2020
Sure, but by that time he will be a Democrat.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:18 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
As for Trump's 'agenda', that changes with the wind anyway. The only 'constant' is that it must generate positive press for Trump.
And if it doesn't, spin it so as to give the impression that it has generated positive press.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:21 PM   #438
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It's well known that whoever talks to Trump last, that's who he listens to. And those who have been around him long use this.

In the meeting about the debt ceiling, Ivanka came in, said some things and Donald decided that was it, he was going with the Dems, meeting over.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:22 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Yes! Positive press for Trump, but also for Democrats.

As for Trump's 'agenda', that changes with the wind anyway. The only 'constant' is that it must generate positive press for Trump.
Then that creates the impression that he is an effective President - something the Democratic Party should be avoiding IMO.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Sure, but by that time he will be a Democrat.
If the Democratic Party selected/accepted Donald Trump as their Presidential candidate, I think all credibility would be lost for them.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:49 PM   #440
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The Republicans are seeing the Trump definition of loyalty in action. Trump's definition means loyalty to him without any expectation of reciprocation.
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