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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 7th September 2017, 12:55 PM   #441
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Then that creates the impression that he is an effective President - something the Democratic Party should be avoiding IMO.
If this is representative of a larger strategy, I think it's one the Democrats would be okay with. Let Trump ineffectively fight his own party, and when possible dangle a simple, PR-friendly solution to see if he bites.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:59 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
The Republicans are seeing the Trump definition of loyalty in action. Trump's definition means loyalty to him without any expectation of reciprocation.
That's fine, the GOP is still able to repeal environmental legislation left, right and centre, they are on the same page as Trump regarding tax cuts for the very wealthy reform, they can continue to roll back civil rights and press ahead with the rest of their agenda regardless of whether or not the President is on board.
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Old 7th September 2017, 01:21 PM   #443
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/u...rats-deal.html

Their faces on the picture are priceless!
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Old 7th September 2017, 01:37 PM   #444
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's fine, the GOP is still able to repeal environmental legislation left, right and centre, they are on the same page as Trump regarding tax cuts for the very wealthy reform, they can continue to roll back civil rights and press ahead with the rest of their agenda regardless of whether or not the President is on board.
Them being forced to do the debt ceiling again gives them less time to accomplish their agenda.
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Old 7th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Them being forced to do the debt ceiling again gives them less time to accomplish their agenda.
Admittedly we only get a partial view from this side of the Atlantic but it seems that a lot of the "stuff" that has happened to date with regulations being dropped, EPA being defunded and so on have been done by edict.

Anything that has required legislation has mostly stalled.

btw. are there still hundreds of posts vacant in the Trump administration ?
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Old 7th September 2017, 02:04 PM   #446
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Old 7th September 2017, 03:23 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
It's well known that whoever talks to Trump last, that's who he listens to. And those who have been around him long use this.

In the meeting about the debt ceiling, Ivanka came in, said some things and Donald decided that was it, he was going with the Dems, meeting over.
It's as if he only has a 140k buffer in his brain.
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Old 7th September 2017, 04:57 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/u...rats-deal.html

Their faces on the picture are priceless!
Headline from the article:
Quote:
To Allies’ Chagrin, Trump Swerves Left
Two comments on that:
1) "Trump Swerves Left" is ridiculous. He's just stabbing the R's in the back for not passing the health care bill he still doesn't have a clue how to implement.
2) I read "Allies" as "Ailes". Still works.

What I've been wondering is why the Dem's wanted the 90 day extension. All I can come up with is so they can further embarrass the R's by making them face another Christmas shutdown.
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Old 7th September 2017, 05:11 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
But doesn't that mean that the Democratic Party has to work with Trump so that he can deliver his agenda - and more importantly to generate positive press coverage for him ?(
I think that is a GREAT strategy for the Democrats. Nothing will get Trump more out of favor with his base than cooperating with Democrats, especially if they are getting what they want.
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:05 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
<snip>For years, the conservative playbook has been "Oppose obama, and cling to power by suppressing minority voters". They seem to have brought very little to the table. They helped set the stage for the rise of someone like Trump.
Very well said. I'd modify that part just a bit by noting that ever since Lee Atwater played a national role in election politics in 1980, the GOP has made FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) a central pillar in their campaign strategies. The most prominent and lasting impact has been an anti-science attitude that deeply infects conservatives. They made words like "elite" and "liberal" extremely pejorative words. The goal was to make the opposition not just wrong but BAD.

Thus we see today's partisan divide. Liberals aren't just wrong, they're trying to "destroy America" (an actual quote used by countless Republicans). No wonder we face gridlock. No wonder Republicans (rightly) fear compromise and challenges from even further to the right. Eric Cantor is Exhibit A in that regard.

Thus, it's hard to give decent Republicans another chance....to give them the benefit of doubt when decades (literally) of testify to the likely response.

What has been the fruit of this process. Nixon, who was politically sharp but just plain mean. Bush II, who was intellectually lazy but basically and kind person. And now this looong process culminates (I hope) in Trump, who is both dumb and mean. He is doing severe damage to the country. He's so bad that mockery and derision is the only response left. What else is one to do when we have a liar for a President. A guy who knows nothing about the art of governing - and doesn't care.

One result is that all Republicans get smeared by the broad brush of accusations of ill will. Some don't deserve it and, like Fast Eddie, resent getting caught in the cross-fire. Many richly deserve the opprobrium that is coming their way. So be it.
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:17 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Reject these things and be the party that shut down the government.
That's not gonna happen. The GOP owns the federal government and if the government shuts down, it will fall on their heads. They can scream about the Dems all they want but nobody with two brain cells to rub together is gonna listen.
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:33 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Now if the deal makes it through congress the GOP can spin it that, although the deal wasn't what they wanted or what they would have chosen for themselves, they needed to make sure that the victims of Hurricane Harvey got the relief they needed. The obstructionist Democrats refused to do the right thing and agree to an 18 month debt extension, held the Harvey victims hostage and reluctantly the GOP agreed, in the short term national interest.
I don't argue with your reasoning but it has a fatal flaw: it's too nuanced. With the Republicans owning the federal government, they are to blame when something goes wrong. It's that simple. Reasoning with logic connecting multiple events, especially ones in the distant past (3 months is distant past in politics), fails to connect with the average American and won't be accepted by the pundit/media class.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:19 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I don't argue with your reasoning but it has a fatal flaw: it's too nuanced. With the Republicans owning the federal government, they are to blame when something goes wrong. It's that simple. Reasoning with logic connecting multiple events, especially ones in the distant past (3 months is distant past in politics), fails to connect with the average American and won't be accepted by the pundit/media class.
I agree that the GOP cannot suddenly say in December that any impending crisis all relates to something the Democratic Party back in September.

For the GOP to pull it off they have to begin the messaging now and from today refer to the Democratic Party Christmas Fiscal Cliff repeatedly every day so the US electorate are left in no doubt that something bad is happening in December and that it's the Democrat's fault.

They're very good at this kind of thing. They've spent 7 years rubbishing the ACA, spun Benghazi out forever and so on.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:23 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
That's not gonna happen. The GOP owns the federal government and if the government shuts down, it will fall on their heads. They can scream about the Dems all they want but nobody with two brain cells to rub together is gonna listen.
I think one needs to look at the current President to see how many people have two brain cells to rub together.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:43 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
That's not gonna happen. The GOP owns the federal government and if the government shuts down, it will fall on their heads. They can scream about the Dems all they want but nobody with two brain cells to rub together is gonna listen.
I think that is The Don's worry.
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Old 8th September 2017, 03:26 AM   #456
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This is a short video of Trump's Phoenix rally. It's really good and only a few minutes long.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 8th September 2017, 03:28 AM   #457
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Re the deal with the democrats, I wonder how logger would spin it.

All the power.
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Old 8th September 2017, 04:47 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think one needs to look at the current President to see how many people have two brain cells to rub together.
Yes the mono-cellular cephalics are a sizeable voting bloc.
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Old 8th September 2017, 08:26 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
This is a short video of Trump's Phoenix rally. It's really good and only a few minutes long.

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Nice

Who'd have thought that Trump was overstating his crowds by about a factor of three
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Old 8th September 2017, 08:28 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Nice

Who'd have thought that Trump was overstating his crowds by about a factor of three
Yeah, I would've expected him to be less restrained.
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Old 8th September 2017, 08:34 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah, I would've expected him to be less restrained.
Probably even Trump realised that claiming a crowd of 50,000 people in a venue with a capacity of 7.5k with no press areas would be stretching it.
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 8th September 2017, 08:46 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Probably even Trump realised that claiming a crowd of 50,000 people in a venue with a capacity of 7.5k with no press areas would be stretching it.
You underestimate him.
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Old 8th September 2017, 09:15 AM   #463
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I often feel this way these days:




Last edited by halleyscomet; 8th September 2017 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 8th September 2017, 09:33 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
This is a short video of Trump's Phoenix rally. It's really good and only a few minutes long.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Thanks for sharing that.
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Old 8th September 2017, 11:40 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I think that is a GREAT strategy for the Democrats.
Nothing will get Trump more out of favor with his base than
cooperating with Democrats, especially if they are getting what they want.

For the Trump voter it's a reality show. So no problems.
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Old 8th September 2017, 11:46 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
For the Trump voter it's a reality show. So no problems.
You think so?

Great republican leaders like Dick Lugar were run out of town for being too friendly with Obama and not insisting on complete partisanship. If Trump starts getting friendly with Pelosi and Shumer and supporting their agenda, who's really going to stick around? All the MAGAers? Yeah, right.
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Old 8th September 2017, 11:48 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Re the deal with the democrats, I wonder how logger would spin it.

All the power.
"Art of the Deal"
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Old 8th September 2017, 11:57 AM   #468
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Quote:
It was supposed to be a call to unity.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney joined a closed-door GOP Conference meeting Friday to try to rally wary Republicans around a debt ceiling bill they hated.

But the huddle quickly went off the rails when Rep. Tim Walberg stood up to say President Donald Trump needed to play more with the team. The Michigan Republican said he was all for bipartisanship, but he argued that Trump shouldn’t have blindsided the conference when he struck a deal with Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, undercutting GOP leadership.

Walberg was the first of more than a dozen lawmakers who echoed that same sentiment, according to sources in the room. Republican Study Committee Chairman Mark Walker of North Carolina asked Mnuchin why he even bothered meeting with conservatives over the summer if he was just going to ignore their input entirely. Another lawmaker said Trump “pissed off a whole lot of people in here” when he went against a joint leadership-White House plan to advocate for a longer debt limit increase that took the issue off the table until after the midterm elections.

And the room booed when Mulvaney and Mnuchin refused to commit to spending cuts during the next debt ceiling debate — and then asked for their vote on the current legislation.

“[Mnuchin’s] last words, and I quote, were ‘Vote for the debt ceiling for me,’” Walker said as he left the meeting. “You could hear the murmurs in the room there. There was some hissing and I don’t know if there was booing but there were some groans.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ulvaney-242490

Trump should embrace demagogic populism 100% and completely abandon any concerns about long term fiscal sustainability. After all he can only be president for 8 years at most so who cares what happens after that?

He ought to lower taxes for everyone but also increase spending on social welfare provision, public healthcare and lets not forget that 1 trillion dollars worth of public works. Large programs to help senior citizens, rural communities with lavish subsidies and federal assistance.
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Old 8th September 2017, 12:28 PM   #469
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It has become impossible for me to know what to wish for vis-a-vis Trump and Congress. On the one hand the only way the USA is going to survive is if there is bipartisanship and compromise. Therefore normally I would be thrilled that a Republican President was cooperating with the Democrats and I would hope that the Republicans in Congress would also get on board. Yet I look at Trump's history and I can only be reminded that virtually everyone who has ever cooperated with Trump in the past has been royally screwed as a result. I am certain that the Democrats realize this, but didn't the Republicans too? It is probably difficult to not believe that this time will be an exception and this time you and your policies will come out ahead from teaming up with Trump.

Well, I guess we will just have to see what happens. For now I must admit I am enjoying the tizzy experienced by the Republican ultra-conservatives due to Trump's U-turn. As in the Aesop fable, they knew Trump was a viper when they picked him up...
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Old 8th September 2017, 04:05 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
It has become impossible for me to know what to wish for vis-a-vis Trump and Congress. On the one hand the only way the USA is going to survive is if there is bipartisanship and compromise. Therefore normally I would be thrilled that a Republican President was cooperating with the Democrats and I would hope that the Republicans in Congress would also get on board. Yet I look at Trump's history and I can only be reminded that virtually everyone who has ever cooperated with Trump in the past has been royally screwed as a result. I am certain that the Democrats realize this, but didn't the Republicans too? It is probably difficult to not believe that this time will be an exception and this time you and your policies will come out ahead from teaming up with Trump.

Well, I guess we will just have to see what happens. For now I must admit I am enjoying the tizzy experienced by the Republican ultra-conservatives due to Trump's U-turn. As in the Aesop fable, they knew Trump was a viper when they picked him up...
Bear in mind Trump is also the man who managed to bankrupt his own casino. This is a no lose situation for the Democrats, it sows dissent in Republican ranks, strengthens the hand of the Democratic Party in the mid-terms and paints them as being serious about bi-partisanship. if Trump does a flip-flop on this deal it gives the Democrats an reason not to co-operate in future.
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Old 8th September 2017, 05:04 PM   #471
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The Dems have a solid reply at the ready for any tortured logic trying to pin blame on them:

"You have both houses and the oval, you can pass any bill you want."

Now, they do still have cloture denial in the Senate, but I imagine they will be closely watching polling data as to whether they think they will be seen as protectors or obstructionists.
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Old 8th September 2017, 11:57 PM   #472
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Trump fails to deliver on yet another campaign promise

US gun makers battle 'Trump slump' as sales fall compared to 2016
Quote:
American Outdoor Brands, the rebranded name of historic gun company Smith & Wesson, reported a 48.5% decrease in firearms revenue compared with the same quarter last year... Trump, who told members of the National Rifle Association, “You came through for me and I am going to come through for you”, has produced only a eponymous “slump”.

In the perverse dynamics of the firearms market, politicians who threaten to ban guns are very good for the industry while politicians who oppose gun control, like Donald Trump, provide no boost.
The message is clear - to save the firearms industry, Trump must push for new gun control laws!
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Old 9th September 2017, 12:10 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
US gun makers battle 'Trump slump' as sales fall compared to 2016The message is clear - to save the firearms industry, Trump must push for new gun control laws!
Maybe the US has just reached Peak Gun.
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Old 9th September 2017, 05:03 AM   #474
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Yes the mono-cellular cephalics are a sizeable voting bloc.

Some 37% to 40% of likely voters, according to most polls.
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Old 9th September 2017, 05:25 AM   #475
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
You think so?

Great republican leaders like Dick Lugar were run out of town for being too friendly with Obama and not insisting on complete partisanship. If Trump starts getting friendly with Pelosi and Shumer and supporting their agenda, who's really going to stick around? All the MAGAers? Yeah, right.

I think you underestimate the powers of self-delusion manifest in Trump's core supporters.

If nothing else they could never face the shame, much less the disappointment of admitting to themselves how utterly manipulated they have been.

Nothing has changed since Trump proclaimed ... quite accurately ... that he could shoot someone down on Fifth Ave, and his supporters wouldn't care.

He could bugger small boys on the Capitol Steps every Wednesday at noon and they still wouldn't care.

If it's something good he'll claim credit for it and they will believe him. If it isn't good he will blame someone else and they will believe him ...

... or he will claim that it really is good after all, and they'll believe that.

He could even claim it was both and they would still believe him.

Anything at all to keep from facing the truth about the cretin they put into the White House.
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Old 9th September 2017, 05:31 AM   #476
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
Maybe the US has just reached Peak Gun.
As a percentage of households, we may have. The number of homes with guns in them has been declining. Gun sales may be high at times but the data suggests it's the same people buying more. At some point, those people will stop buying once they reach saturation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...a-30-year-low/
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Old 9th September 2017, 05:49 AM   #477
LSSBB
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
US gun makers battle 'Trump slump' as sales fall compared to 2016The message is clear - to save the firearms industry, Trump must push for new gun control laws!
"Buy a gun, defend yourself from Antifa!"
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Old 9th September 2017, 06:18 AM   #478
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Quote:
House Democrats are prepared to threaten a government shutdown in December unless Congress adopts protections for Dreamers, a senior member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus said Friday.

Hours after Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-Ill.) voted for a three-month government funding deal that he had lambasted his party’s leaders for striking with President Donald Trump, he suggested that top Democrats are prepared to take a stronger stand once that deal expires. Gutiérrez said Democratic leaders ceded leverage they could have used to help undocumented immigrants who came to the country as children.

“We will shut it down or let Republicans keep it open with their own votes,” Gutiérrez told Dreamers and immigration activists gathered on Capitol Hill on Friday. He and every other House Democrat had just voted for the funding package that also includes aid for Hurricane Harvey victims.

“The vast majority of members in the Democratic Caucus are ready to say, if there is no pathway forward” for Dreamers, “then there is no government for anyone," Gutiérrez said.

But House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is still laser focused on securing protections for Dreamers this month, her spokesman told POLITICO.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...hutdown-242502

Is this is it? Will the democrats finally stop being white knights and start playing hard ball?

The republican party has a majority in parliament and control the white house. In any country worth its salt it would be their own sole responsibility to come up with a budget or other financial legislation to keep the state running. If they cannot accomplish that they don't deserve to control the government because the core requirement of being in control of government is keeping the state funded and running.

Democrats should simply refuse to vote for any budget or debt limit increase at all in my opinion. They should let the US default if that's what's gonna happen. It would a testament to the epic failure that is the republican party. Let it burn.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 9th September 2017 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 9th September 2017, 06:34 AM   #479
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
"Buy a gun, defend yourself from Antifa!"
Instead maybe it's time for lefties to start building up their own arsenals and start stocking up armories with guns and ammo. I mean if right-wing extremist are going to show up at rallies armed with semi-automatic rifles, military vests, shields and perhaps even body armor then surely their adversaries should reciprocate.

I'm sure some already do this but my own impression is that Americans on the left are clearly outgunned, "piss balloons" and mace just don't have intimidation effect that showing up as armed, disciplined militia do. I would certainly take advantage of Americas generous and liberal gun weapon laws to stock up for any eventualities.
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Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner

Last edited by Arcade22; 9th September 2017 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 9th September 2017, 10:03 AM   #480
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Instead maybe it's time for lefties to start building up their own arsenals and start stocking up armories with guns and ammo. I mean if right-wing extremist are going to show up at rallies armed with semi-automatic rifles, military vests, shields and perhaps even body armor then surely their adversaries should reciprocate.

I'm sure some already do this but my own impression is that Americans on the left are clearly outgunned, "piss balloons" and mace just don't have intimidation effect that showing up as armed, disciplined militia do. I would certainly take advantage of Americas generous and liberal gun weapon laws to stock up for any eventualities.
Basically 2 options. Try to outgun them or get out of the violence game entirely.

The middle "option" leads to getting trounced in a violent exchange while having no sympathy card to play.

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