Antifa's Honeymoon Coming to an end

The Big Dog

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The Big Dog
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After the tragedy in Charlottesville that the groups commonly referred to as Antifa and their Black Bloc comrades enjoyed a brief period of respect. That respect is clearly quickly evaporating as the result of the brutal attacks in Berkeley this past weekend and closer scrutiny into Antifa/Black Block's history of violence and sneering contempt for free speech.

For some recent comments see:

OPINION | The hypocrisy of antifa

The case against antifa
The anti-fascist movement often deploys violence in its protests — and that could seriously backfire.

The weekend saw numerous attacks on photographers who were taking pictures of the violence by the Black Block.

That being said, they do have their champions on the left, despite their violent tactics, with the Mayor of Berkeley California ironically wanting U of C to cancel their free speech week: Report: Berkeley mayor wants Cal to cancel right-wing Free Speech Week because of threatened Antifa/Black Block violence.

Rich Lowry: Stop making excuses for antifa thuggery
 
I still have a place in my heart for them.
 
Travis said:
I still have a place in my heart for them.
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Rich Lowry's take on that:

There will always be goons who enjoy breaking things and hurting people. The real scandal is that otherwise respectable people are willing to look the other way or explain away the violence, so long as its perpetrators are on their side. They are just as cowardly as the mask-wearing antifa thugs who are brave enough to punch and kick people, but not to show their faces.
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I wonder if Democratic politicians will face calls demanding that they denounce Antifa? Have any done so?

Antifa is an embarrassment to anyone who is an actual liberal.
 
Hyper bipartisan politics in America has both sides too easily justifing thuggery. You all need to take a good hard look at yourselves.
 
Meadmaker said:
I wonder if Democratic politicians will face calls demanding that they denounce Antifa? Have any done so?

Antifa is an embarrassment to anyone who is an actual liberal.
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That's because they aren't liberal. They've gone WAY beyond that...just as the kkk or white supremacists have gone WAY beyond the beliefs of the right.
 
Macgyver1968 said:
That's because they aren't liberal. They've gone WAY beyond that...just as the kkk or white supremacists have gone WAY beyond the beliefs of the right.
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Exactly. Nazis aren't conservative. Antifa isn't liberal. A pox on both their houses.
 
If "Antifa" stopped coming to the counter-protests I suspect they wouldn't be missed, nor their absence even particularly noticed aside from fewer arrests being reported. By all means let the alleged honeymoon "end".

For what it's worth though, I expect to the white nationalists to continue as they have been to refer to all counter-protesters as "Antifa", facts notwithstanding.
 
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Antifa never had anything that could be described as a "honeymoon". Self-righteous liberals already tsk-tsked whenever they did their thing, and there was never any drive for ideological leftists to actually find out what they did or stood for, with a few exceptions (Slate did a number of good pieces on Antifa).

Some people are so worried about not losing the "moral highground" that they don't realize that sometimes you have to fight, especially when your opponent is spoiling for it.

That said, I absolutely condemn Blac Bloc tactics and wanton destruction of property.
 
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Travis said:
I still have a place in my heart for them.
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And so we learn from history, generations have to fight
And those who crave for mastery
Must be faced down on sight
And if that means by words, by fists, by stones or by the gun
Remember those who stood up for
Their daughters and their sons
Listen to the sound of marching feet
And the voices of the ghosts of Cable Street
Fists and stones and batons and the gun
With courage we shall beat those blackshirts down
​
 
The Big Dog said:
After the tragedy in Charlottesville that the groups commonly referred to as Antifa and their Black Bloc comrades enjoyed a brief period of respect. That respect is clearly quickly evaporating as the result of the brutal attacks in Berkeley this past weekend and closer scrutiny into Antifa/Black Block's history of violence and sneering contempt for free speech.
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Antifa are fascists who fight other fascists in the name of fighting against fascism.

Had it not been for that vehicular terrorist, my comment on Charlottesville would've been identical to Trumps'.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Antifa are fascists who fight other fascists in the name of fighting against fascism.

Had it not been for that vehicular terrorist, my comment on Charlottesville would've been identical to Trumps'.

McHrozni
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You agree then that there are a lot of good white supremacists. Merely going to a white supremacist rally is clearly not a mark in and of itself of a bad person.
 
McHrozni said:
Antifa are fascists who fight other fascists in the name of fighting against fascism.

Had it not been for that vehicular terrorist, my comment on Charlottesville would've been identical to Trumps'.

McHrozni
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You do understand that the word "fascist" means something, right? It does not mean "people I don't like".
 
Information Analyst said:
Street-fighting anti-fascists vs. street-fighting fascists.

Tough moral choice....
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Are you confident that Antifa's definition of fascist is the same as yours? Do you believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democratic republic?
 
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Scopedog said:
Are you confident that Antifa's definition of fascist is the same as yours? Do you believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democratic republic?
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No, but I do believe the fascists of Charlottesville were fascists.

ETA: One group of Antifa's definition of fascism: http://rosecityantifa.org/faq/
 
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Huh, a lot of “liberals” in favor of vigilantism (as long as the vigilantes targets are bad people, naturally).

I wonder what Hannah Arendt had to say?...

“The end of human action, as distinct from the end products of fabrication, can never be reliably predicted. The means used to achieve political goals are more often than not of greater relevance to the future world than the intended goals. “
 
Giz said:
Huh, a lot of “liberals” in favor of vigilantism (as long as the vigilantes targets are bad people, naturally).

I wonder what Hannah Arendt had to say?...

“The end of human action, as distinct from the end products of fabrication, can never be reliably predicted. The means used to achieve political goals are more often than not of greater relevance to the future world than the intended goals. “
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Do you think this is a condemnation of direct action against fascists?
 
Giz said:
Huh, a lot of “liberals” in favor of vigilantism (as long as the vigilantes targets are bad people, naturally).
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That's a feature of the more extreme forms of any political group, left, right or otherwise. You could argue that sometimes, extremism is warranted, but of course it's always an arbitrary decision.
 
uke2se said:
Do you think this is a condemnation of direct action against fascists?
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I think it is a reason for keeping the civic process as free from violence and arbitrary oppression (whether state sanctioned or by the mob) as possible.
 
Giz said:
I think it is a reason for keeping the civic process as free from violence and arbitrary oppression (whether state sanctioned or by the mob) as possible.
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I would agree with that. As free as possible.
 
Argumemnon said:
That's a feature of the more extreme forms of any political group, left, right or otherwise. You could argue that sometimes, extremism is warranted, but of course it's always an arbitrary decision.
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It's the hypocrisy.

If the EDL marched against Islamists, or an angry mob rampaged looked for pedophiles, a lot of our esteemed liberal posters would be up in arms. But give them a bad guy who pushes their buttons... suddenly lynch mobs are the guarantee of democracy.

I think I'd rather defend democracy with speech and due process rather than racing to embrace the methods of the fascists. Looks like it's time for a Nietzsche quote!

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
 
Wolrab said:
President Trump said nothing of the sort. He just included all the hate groups.
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They got the message clearly. They have always gotten the messages Trump has been sending them clearly. There after all are plenty of people at his rallies using nazi slogans. They are a core part of the trump base.

But hey clearly spraying a little fire from an aerosol can is just as bad as nearly beating a man to death.
 
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