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Old 1st September 2017, 04:49 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Agreed. The problem I am having isn’t that it’s some clear racist act, it’s that people are assuming implicitly that it isn’t and dismissing the concerns of the black students out of hand. This suggests implicitly trusting white students while implicitly mistrusting black students.
No, it suggests adults can deal with an inappropriately placed banana peel, apperantly it is wrong.
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Old 1st September 2017, 05:54 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
well, it wasn't the same college, it was a banana peel and not a whole banana and it most certainly was not hung up with string in the shape of a noose.
Your facts are not welcome. Feelings is more important
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Old 1st September 2017, 07:07 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wouldn't condemn them for thinking it might be a racist comment. However, I would criticize them for being paralyzed, cancelling events, leaving the room crying, and generally carrying on like babies because somebody did something that could possibily be racist. I would only be slightly less critical of their behavior if someone had done something that was actually, really and truly, racist.

It's more "hold your breath for justice" stuff, and it looks even stupider when it turns out that the supposed threat was just a banana peel.
My finals week of senior year was in LA, in 1992, during the riots. We had one incident of graffiti near the black students apartments that week. Everyone agreed it was terrible. Nothing like that had ever happened and we all figured it was outsiders who had come from downtown or USC.
Some students held a protest at the entry gate against the Rodney King verdict and the police beating.

The campus did all of this together...black, white, asian, latino. No one tried to shut the school down or block entry. No one segregated or demanded separate safe spaces. No one asked for extra time for just the minorities to study for finals. (These were the demands granted at American University for the noosed bananas incident)

I did end up taking one final after graduation, but only because the night classes were cancelled due to the curfew. We legally could not go take the tests for the 7p-10p classes.

The city was literally being burned down and looted just minutes away and we managed not to implode. It felt more like a natural disaster that affected us all rather than a race riot. We were all in it together.

So...a banana? Even a racist banana? Sorry. I just cannot see how such a dramatic over-the-top response was warranted or helpful to anyone. Least of all the students of color.

This type of reaction gives a lot of undeserved power to people (of any race) to disrupt so many lives with so little effort.
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Old 1st September 2017, 07:17 PM   #84
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Don't bananas grow on trees? How will the snowflakes react when they encounter a real banana tree?
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Old 1st September 2017, 07:44 PM   #85
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I suspect it'll be the similar to the way the Golgafrinchans dealt with inflation.
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Old 1st September 2017, 08:11 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I'm thinking back to college days, and I think now I'm just surprised that's ALL the refuse they found in the tree.
Hehehe. Are you sayin' what I'm thinkin'?
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Old 1st September 2017, 11:07 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
well, it wasn't the same college

OK sorry, I misread that paragraph.

I'm leaning towards overreaction then.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 06:34 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
OK sorry, I misread that paragraph.

I'm leaning towards overreaction then.

Because we certainly can't expect students discussing racism at one school to have any awareness of overtly racist incidents at other schools.

Especially ones which had happened whole months beforehand.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:01 AM   #89
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Don't ask for whom the bell tolls.
It peels for YOU!

If you look hard enough.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:37 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah but WHY?
It's been answered already .. read before ask jeez ..
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:57 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Because we certainly can't expect students discussing racism at one school to have any awareness of overtly racist incidents at other schools.

Especially ones which had happened whole months beforehand.
And happened to a member of the same traditionally black sorority in response to her being the first female black student government president at that school.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 08:10 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
And happened to a member of the same traditionally black sorority in response to her being the first female black student government president at that school.
"happened" to? It was a banana peel in a tree.

Although I can see how grossly disproportionate overreactions to minor triggers could be common within sororities.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 11:08 AM   #93
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I suspect searches of the litterer on FB and Twit didn't show any racism, or we would have heard about it.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 02:32 PM   #94
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If a Greek student enrolled in one of these places they'd be so "triggered" the whole college would have to shut down.

Meanwhile - how do these communities manage to have their notorious parties without getting triggered half to death?

I mean, if they play Queen's One Vision and get to the 'fried chicken' line at the end do they all go ******* about racial stereotyping? Would Born in the USA cause fainting fits with the 'Yellow man' reference? And don't get me started about the lyrics of The Who's Substitute.

Rimsky-Korsakov's Schehrazade is off-limits because it derives from a story about a despotic monarch slaughtering (recently ex-) virgin brides before they have a chance to be unfaithful to him?

There is obviously a limit to how thick a person's skin can be expected to be, but deliberately aiming for 'the thinnest skin possible' in order to score points can't be the way to go. The world would cease to function.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 02:39 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
If a Greek student enrolled in one of these places they'd be so "triggered" the whole college would have to shut down.

Meanwhile - how do these communities manage to have their notorious parties without getting triggered half to death?

I mean, if they play Queen's One Vision and get to the 'fried chicken' line at the end do they all go ******* about racial stereotyping? Would Born in the USA cause fainting fits with the 'Yellow man' reference? And don't get me started about the lyrics of The Who's Substitute.

Rimsky-Korsakov's Schehrazade is off-limits because it derives from a story about a despotic monarch slaughtering (recently ex-) virgin brides before they have a chance to be unfaithful to him?

There is obviously a limit to how thick a person's skin can be expected to be, but deliberately aiming for 'the thinnest skin possible' in order to score points can't be the way to go. The world would cease to function.
Racist. Reported.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 09:08 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
deliberately aiming for 'the thinnest skin possible' in order to score points
I had never thought of it that way, but that really is what is happening, isn't it?

The person who says, "It's no big deal." is called insensitive or worse. The person who says she is so traumatized that she can't possibly continue is called courageous for speaking up.

It really is messed up, isn't it?
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Old 2nd September 2017, 09:10 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
And happened to a member of the same traditionally black sorority in response to her being the first female black student government president at that school.
What does that even mean?
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Old 3rd September 2017, 06:17 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
What does that even mean?

Are you unfamiliar with the subject matter of this thread?

Such a question would have been adequately explained to anyone who had bothered to read the first article linked to in the first post of the thread. The one that contains the details of the episode which has triggered all this pseudo-irate conservative posturing.

If you can't even be bothered to learn what the thread is about then why do you waste your time posting to it?
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Old 3rd September 2017, 07:36 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Are you unfamiliar with the subject matter of this thread?

Such a question would have been adequately explained to anyone who had bothered to read the first article linked to in the first post of the thread. The one that contains the details of the episode which has triggered all this pseudo-irate conservative posturing.

If you can't even be bothered to learn what the thread is about then why do you waste your time posting to it?
I don't think Noztradamus was asking about the subject but rather the meaning of your post. It was dripping with so much sarcasm that it could be taken either way.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 08:05 AM   #100
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The lesson I'm getting here is that feelings don't matter, but other people's feelings about the first set of people having feelings do matter. So feelings matter, but only if they're in reaction to other people's feelings. It has to be second degree or better to count.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 08:28 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Agreed. The problem I am having isn’t that it’s some clear racist act, it’s that people are assuming implicitly that it isn’t and dismissing the concerns of the black students out of hand. This suggests implicitly trusting white students while implicitly mistrusting black students.
http://thedmonline.com/greek-life-re...bias-concerns/

Quote:
McNeil said her sorority sister then raised her hand to simply ask who put the peel in the tree.
She said Swanson stood up and came forward almost immediately after the question. He apologized and said he did not mean any harm by leaving the peel in the tree.
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9679

Quote:
Swanson apologized for the incident, writing in a statement that he wants to “sincerely apologize for the events that took place this past weekend.”

“Although unintentional, there is no excuse for the pain that was caused to members of our community,” he continued. “I have much to learn and look forward to doing such and encourage all members of our community to do the same.”
Nope.

The concern got identified and resolved quite early in the process. It's absolutely fair game to start wondering if the sustained hysterics past that point are for some other purpose or the result of complete and utter delusions.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 09:02 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If this counts as racism. it just goes to show how far we've come in eliminating racism.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 09:19 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
If this counts as racism. it just goes to show how far we've come in eliminating racism.
I know, right? It's like how you knew we'd pretty much beaten starvation in this country, when they had to invent a whole new term--"food insecurity"--to keep you concerned.

What's depressing is that there's never any recognition of gains made. As soon as substantial progress is seen, the narrative shifts focus to some newly-coined problem.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 12:51 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I don't think Noztradamus was asking about the subject but rather the meaning of your post. It was dripping with so much sarcasm that it could be taken either way.

My post?

Perhaps you mean paulhutch's post?
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:33 PM   #105
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Is that a banana in your tree, or are you just unhappy to see me? wink wink"
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Old 3rd September 2017, 03:04 PM   #106
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The banana peel gag has taken on a whole new meaning
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Old 3rd September 2017, 10:31 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
If a Greek student enrolled in one of these places they'd be so "triggered" the whole college would have to shut down.

Meanwhile - how do these communities manage to have their notorious parties without getting triggered half to death?

I mean, if they play Queen's One Vision and get to the 'fried chicken' line at the end do they all go ******* about racial stereotyping? Would Born in the USA cause fainting fits with the 'Yellow man' reference? And don't get me started about the lyrics of The Who's Substitute.

Rimsky-Korsakov's Schehrazade is off-limits because it derives from a story about a despotic monarch slaughtering (recently ex-) virgin brides before they have a chance to be unfaithful to him?

There is obviously a limit to how thick a person's skin can be expected to be, but deliberately aiming for 'the thinnest skin possible' in order to score points can't be the way to go. The world would cease to function.
You wanna talk about triggers? Try Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side"

Coloured Girls, Trannies, Gays, Hookers, Blow-Jobs, Drugs.... its Trigger City, USA
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Last edited by smartcooky; 3rd September 2017 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 11:09 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
My post?

Perhaps you mean paulhutch's post?
I did, thanks for the correction. My point, however, was mainly to do with your response.
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Old 4th September 2017, 12:28 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The banana peel gag has taken on a whole new meaning
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I AGREE
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Old 4th September 2017, 01:13 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The concern got identified and resolved quite early in the process. It's absolutely fair game to start wondering if the sustained hysterics past that point are for some other purpose or the result of complete and utter delusions.
It could simply be a result of something they have been taught during orientation, this is from 2007, but I keep hearing rumors that similar programs have managed to fly under the radar.

Quote:
Following an intense campaign led by FIRE and national media attention, the University of Delaware dropped an ideological reeducation program that was referred to in the university’s own materials as a “treatment” for students’ incorrect attitudes and beliefs.
https://www.thefire.org/cases/univer...l-reeducation/

This however gets to the heart of what was being taught:

Quote:
The university’s views are forced on students through a comprehensive manipulation of the residence hall environment, from mandatory training sessions to “sustainability” door decorations. Students living in the university’s eight housing complexes are required to attend training sessions, floor meetings, and one-on-one meetings with their Resident Assistants (RAs). The RAs who facilitate these meetings have received their own intensive training from the university, including a “diversity facilitation training” session at which RAs were taught, among other things, that “[a] racist is one who is both privileged and socialized on the basis of race by a white supremacist (racist) system. The term applies to all white people (i.e., people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality.”
https://www.thefire.org/university-o...l-reeducation/
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Old 4th September 2017, 01:21 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
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I'll see you, and raise you one...
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Old 4th September 2017, 01:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I'll see you, and raise you one...
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Hah! That was going to be my first choice!!
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Old 4th September 2017, 01:38 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
It's been answered already .. read before ask jeez ..
It wasn't answered in the link, which prompted my question.

Jeez.

See? Now I'm even more disappointingly outranged than you!
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Old 4th September 2017, 08:47 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Agreed. The problem I am having isn’t that it’s some clear racist act, it’s that people are assuming implicitly that it isn’t and dismissing the concerns of the black students out of hand. This suggests implicitly trusting white students while implicitly mistrusting black students.
The banana-in-noose thing surely made the rounds quickly among the black fraternities. Putting a banana peel in a tree at eye level (seriously, who does that? Have you?) would pull that lynching imagery up right pronto to a black student. How can they be faulted for seeing a very dark reminder right in their faces?
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Old 4th September 2017, 08:57 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
The banana-in-noose thing surely made the rounds quickly among the black fraternities. Putting a banana peel in a tree at eye level (seriously, who does that? Have you?) would pull that lynching imagery up right pronto to a black student. How can they be faulted for seeing a very dark reminder right in their faces?
I don't think that's what most people are faulting them for. Some are, surely, but that misses the point.

There's two things. There's the misidentification of the banana peel as some sort of racist statement, and there's the reaction to it.


As for the misidentification itself, I can't fault anyone for thinking it might be racist, but would it be too much to ask that people at least considered the possibility that it might not be racist? I can see it putting people on edge as they considered the possibility that it might be a cryptic threat, but they should have at least retained in their heads the possibility that it might just be a banana peel.


But, suppose that it had been a genuine racist statement. Suppose it wasn't just littering. Would the response have been appropriate? As noted earlier, thin skin is not supposed to be a virtue. Wilting and breaking down in tears is not the sign of leadership. Cancelling an event is not a positive response to trolling.
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Old 4th September 2017, 09:29 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't think that's what most people are faulting them for. Some are, surely, but that misses the point.

There's two things. There's the misidentification of the banana peel as some sort of racist statement, and there's the reaction to it.


As for the misidentification itself, I can't fault anyone for thinking it might be racist, but would it be too much to ask that people at least considered the possibility that it might not be racist? I can see it putting people on edge as they considered the possibility that it might be a cryptic threat, but they should have at least retained in their heads the possibility that it might just be a banana peel.
That's a fair point, but seriously: have you ever seen anyone discard a banana peel by putting it in a tree at eye level? And shortly after a blatantly threatening similar display (which they all likely were aware of)? I think it's a tough sell for coinky-dinky, considering the previous banana-in-noose situation. Perhaps they did consider it; I wouldn't know. But I for sure would cut them some extra slack for feeling threatened.


Quote:
But, suppose that it had been a genuine racist statement. Suppose it wasn't just littering. Would the response have been appropriate? As noted earlier, thin skin is not supposed to be a virtue. Wilting and breaking down in tears is not the sign of leadership. Cancelling an event is not a positive response to trolling.
I don't know with certainty that there was a mass tearful response. Perhaps tears by some and rage by others, who were convinced to calm down? I think that the reporting may not reflect all existing tensions (whatever they may have been). But I certainly would not make light of a (sort of) death threat without more information than the reporting has provided.
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Old 5th September 2017, 06:16 AM   #117
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Old 5th September 2017, 06:31 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
The banana-in-noose thing surely made the rounds quickly among the black fraternities. Putting a banana peel in a tree at eye level (seriously, who does that? Have you?) would pull that lynching imagery up right pronto to a black student. How can they be faulted for seeing a very dark reminder right in their faces?
I spent the first decade of my working life outdoors. I often placed things in the crook of a nearby tree, sometimes leftover lunch articles that I considered might be food for some animal, or biodegradable enough to not be considered litter.
Can't remember if I ever specifically left a banana peel in one, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had.
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Old 5th September 2017, 06:50 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
The banana-in-noose thing surely made the rounds quickly among the black fraternities. Putting a banana peel in a tree at eye level (seriously, who does that? Have you?) would pull that lynching imagery up right pronto to a black student. How can they be faulted for seeing a very dark reminder right in their faces?
The bananas hanging from the trees incident at American University in DC has not been solved as a hate crime, though.
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Old 5th September 2017, 07:44 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I spent the first decade of my working life outdoors. I often placed things in the crook of a nearby tree, sometimes leftover lunch articles that I considered might be food for some animal, or biodegradable enough to not be considered litter.
Can't remember if I ever specifically left a banana peel in one, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had.
I was beginning to think I was alone in this!
In my case I remember it from 70s West Africa as a kid. I seem to remember it wasn't unusual.
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