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Old 5th September 2017, 08:19 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I spent the first decade of my working life outdoors. I often placed things in the crook of a nearby tree, sometimes leftover lunch articles that I considered might be food for some animal, or biodegradable enough to not be considered litter.
Can't remember if I ever specifically left a banana peel in one, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had.
I often put compostables on the ground too, apple cores and whatnot, just off the trail/walkway. Non-tree-dwellers eat too, right? It's putting it at eye level that strikes me as odd.
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Old 5th September 2017, 08:23 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The bananas hanging from the trees incident at American University in DC has not been solved as a hate crime, though.
That's true, but however they label it in their file, it was a noose. Around a banana. In a tree. With a predominately black fraternity's letters. I don't think there is much issue with what message was intended.
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Old 5th September 2017, 08:43 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
It's putting it at eye level that strikes me as odd.
Why?
That's presumably where his eyes are located as well, so would be the branch/nook/stump most likely to be seen.
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Old 5th September 2017, 08:52 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Why?
That's presumably where his eyes are located as well, so would be the branch/nook/stump most likely to be seen.
Whose? A grizzly's? Bears usually are on all fours with snouts on the ground looking for food, in my experience. The guy in the OP claimed he 'couldn't find a trash can, so...stuck it at eye level for all to behold, instead of tossing it in the brush to break down? Nah. Not buying that.
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Old 5th September 2017, 09:16 AM   #125
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No, the guy in the story stuck it at that point of the tree because that's where he saw somewhere to put it, because that's where his eyes were looking...ie eye level.

I've stuck veggie leftovers (including banana peel) in trees at eye level before because that's where I was looking. I've seen then stuck in trees because, presumably, that's where the person who stuck them there was looking.

"Ooh, look. A convenient branch etc"

If you are going to hang leftovers in a tree then that's pretty much where you're going to put it, give or take a foot.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:50 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I spent the first decade of my working life outdoors. I often placed things in the crook of a nearby tree, sometimes leftover lunch articles that I considered might be food for some animal, or biodegradable enough to not be considered litter.
Can't remember if I ever specifically left a banana peel in one, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had.
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I was beginning to think I was alone in this!
In my case I remember it from 70s West Africa as a kid. I seem to remember it wasn't unusual.

And I spent pretty much all my adult life working outdoors, and a fair amount of my youth just trucking through the woods in WV. Mostly for fun, sometimes for pay.

I never did anything like that, nor do I recall any of my friends or acquaintances ever doing it.

So much for anecdotes.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:53 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I often put compostables on the ground too, apple cores and whatnot, just off the trail/walkway. Non-tree-dwellers eat too, right? It's putting it at eye level that strikes me as odd.

This I understand. The critters are gonna find it either way, and making the trees look like compost garbage art never crossed my mind.
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:01 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
No, the guy in the story stuck it at that point of the tree because that's where he saw somewhere to put it, because that's where his eyes were looking...ie eye level.

I've stuck veggie leftovers (including banana peel) in trees at eye level before because that's where I was looking. I've seen then stuck in trees because, presumably, that's where the person who stuck them there was looking.

"Ooh, look. A convenient branch etc"

If you are going to hang leftovers in a tree then that's pretty much where you're going to put it, give or take a foot.

Sounds pretty weird to me.

Lots of garbage left in trees where you live?

There isn't in the places I've been. And there's always been plenty of trees around.
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:07 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
No, the guy in the story stuck it at that point of the tree because that's where he saw somewhere to put it, because that's where his eyes were looking...ie eye level.

I've stuck veggie leftovers (including banana peel) in trees at eye level before because that's where I was looking. I've seen then stuck in trees because, presumably, that's where the person who stuck them there was looking.

"Ooh, look. A convenient branch etc"

If you are going to hang leftovers in a tree then that's pretty much where you're going to put it, give or take a foot.

Big "If" there.

My experience has been that generally people put things at eye level because that way it is more likely somebody else will notice it.

Not because that's where they happen to be looking at the moment they decide to get rid of something.

I think you are trying way too hard to 'splain this away.
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:08 PM   #130
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For the little it's worth, I can't imagine specifically choosing to discard organic waste above ground level. I suppose I might toss a banana skin into the undergrowth and not care much that it happened to lodge on a branch.
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:22 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And I spent pretty much all my adult life working outdoors, and a fair amount of my youth just trucking through the woods in WV. Mostly for fun, sometimes for pay.

I never did anything like that, nor do I recall any of my friends or acquaintances ever doing it.

So much for anecdotes.
Truly. Do you not understand the logical breakdown of dismissing the anecdote?

You seem to be saying that since you have no recollection of ever leaving something in the crook of a tree then no one could do so innocently.

Two posters ( out of how many? 15? ) assert that they have on more than one occasion done just that. To which you assert that it is their anecdote that lacks relevance, not yours. Even though their anecdotes are in direct rebuttal to an expression of incredulousness about that same action made by a previous poster.

Is that not deliberate obtuseness?
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:24 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
For the little it's worth, I can't imagine specifically choosing to discard organic waste above ground level. I suppose I might toss a banana skin into the undergrowth and not care much that it happened to lodge on a branch.
I have also left tape-measures, knives, hammers, saws, notebooks, soda bottles, and all manner of other objects that I have had a need to set down, in trees.
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Old 5th September 2017, 12:30 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
For the little it's worth, I can't imagine specifically choosing to discard organic waste above ground level. I suppose I might toss a banana skin into the undergrowth and not care much that it happened to lodge on a branch.
I probably tossed a banana skin out a third story window in the Halls of Residence at Canterbury University at least once in my youth (hey, I was an uncaring slob back then, what can I say). It could have lodged in a tree (if one had been there), but in NZ, in the 1970's, I don't think any member of the student body would have seen it and immediately thought "racist symbolism", felt threatened and needed to run off to a shrink for some counselling.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:16 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Truly. Do you not understand the logical breakdown of dismissing the anecdote?

Why, yes, Yes, I do.

I'm not sure that you do, though.

Quote:

You seem to be saying that since you have no recollection of ever leaving something in the crook of a tree
Nope. I didn't say that. Look at the quote you included in your post. I said, "I never did anything like that.". Not "I have no recollection".

Quote:
then no one could do so innocently.

Nope. Didn't say that, either.

Quote:


Two posters ( out of how many? 15? ) assert that they have on more than one occasion done just that.
So what?


Quote:
To which you assert that it is their anecdote that lacks relevance, not yours.

Nope. Didn't say that, either.

You're batting zero for three. Maybe you aren't very good at this.

Quote:
Even though their anecdotes are in direct rebuttal to an expression of incredulousness about that same action made by a previous poster.

It makes no difference what it is in rebuttal to.

Quote:

Is that not deliberate obtuseness?

Nope. My anecdote is as good as theirs. That's all it is.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:18 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I have also left tape-measures, knives, hammers, saws, notebooks, soda bottles, and all manner of other objects that I have had a need to set down, in trees.

These were things you were discarding?

Because if they weren't then the comparison lacks substance.

Now if you did so with the intent that they be more noticeable and less likely to be forgotten, then you might want to consider what that implies.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:21 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
That's true, but however they label it in their file, it was a noose. Around a banana. In a tree. With a predominately black fraternity's letters. I don't think there is much issue with what message was intended.
Could have been a fake, intended to get the university to acquiesce to demands.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:22 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I have also left tape-measures, knives, hammers, saws, notebooks, soda bottles, and all manner of other objects that I have had a need to set down, in trees.
Me too, specifically so that they're not on the ground where they're more easily lost.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:24 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I probably tossed a banana skin out a third story window in the Halls of Residence at Canterbury University at least once in my youth (hey, I was an uncaring slob back then, what can I say). It could have lodged in a tree (if one had been there), but in NZ, in the 1970's, I don't think any member of the student body would have seen it and immediately thought "racist symbolism", felt threatened and needed to run off to a shrink for some counselling.

Is that the same as choosing to place it in a tree at eye level?

Immediately outside a location where a discussion on race issues was under way?

Only a few months after this was done deliberately to intimate a member of the same fraternity on a different campus?

Because if not then your comment is meaningless and contributes nothing.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:28 PM   #139
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I have been trying to keep track of banana peels in the "wild" so to speak. So far the count is: two in bike lanes, and interestingly, one hanging off a chain link gate in an alley in the Loop.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:30 PM   #140
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https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dDOWi6tBa...ana%2Bpeel.jpg

It just doesn't look like much to me. It looks like someone was walking by and there was no trash can and no bushes.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:31 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post

Only a few months after this was done deliberately to intimate a member of the same fraternity on a different campus?
They put a banana peel in a tree to intimate a member of the same fraternity on a different campus?

Because if not then your comment is meaningless and contributes nothing.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:38 PM   #142
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I continue to see irony in so many people jumping to conclusions about whether someone else was jumping to conclusions…
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
No, the guy in the story stuck it at that point of the tree because that's where he saw somewhere to put it, because that's where his eyes were looking...ie eye level.
He said he did it because he couldn’t find a garbage can. There is absolutely nothing about not having a trash can handy that necessitates leaving trash in a tree. It’s worse “reason” than no reason at all, because it doesn’t make sense given the problem at hand.
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:44 PM   #143
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Quote:
The breakfast options included a fruit cart with bananas.
So the banana was actually provided to Swanson for breakfast there at the retreat?
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Old 5th September 2017, 01:47 PM   #144
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Swanson is probably going to have to leave Ole Miss. We even have people here at this distance saying that Swanson's story is a lie, so that he must have done this as a deliberate racist act.

This idea must also be going around campus.

It can't be long.
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Old 5th September 2017, 02:35 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dDOWi6tBa...ana%2Bpeel.jpg

It just doesn't look like much to me. It looks like someone was walking by and there was no trash can and no bushes.
It looks more like a big slug hanging down like that.

This method of discarding it strikes me slightly odd too - I'd throw it simply somewhere off-path on the ground too. But the "I couldn't find a trash can" sounds odd seeing that picture; there's a building just ten paces from the tree. Surely there's a trash can inside?

However, it looks a far cry from the banana hanging from a noose with a hateful message incident two months prior.
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Old 5th September 2017, 04:02 PM   #146
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Have none of you been to university in a while?

I was 27-29 when I wrapped up and all the 18-22s would constantly have me rubbing my forehead going "that's the strangest way to be lazy I think I've ever seen" only to then have to reset my scale yet again about another 15-20 minutes on. Remember, these kids grew up on Beavis and Butthead and I experienced no shortage of people who could have done a great live-action improv of one (or both) parts.

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Old 5th September 2017, 04:15 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Is that the same as choosing to place it in a tree at eye level?
How exactly did the finder know that it was placed at eye level? It could have fallen though the branches and that was where it landed. I hit a golf ball into a big, 100ft+ old man pine tree once. It fell through all the branches and came to rest in the crook of the stump of a sawn off branch, three feet above the ground. I was able to play it where it lay!!

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Immediately outside a location where a discussion on race issues was under way?
And you know the litterer knew this how exactly?

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Only a few months after this was done deliberately to intimate a member of the same fraternity on a different campus?
And you know the litterer knew this how exactly?

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Because if not then your comment is meaningless and contributes nothing.
On the contrary, it contributes reasonable (IMO, more likely) alternative explanation of what happened instead of the conclusion the offended person jumped to... when you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

In this case, ALL of the previous intimidatory incidents had a theme, they were intact, unpeeled bananas hanging in a tree using string tied in a hangman's noose, the implication was clear, the banana (a vulgar, visual pejorative for a black person drawn from the inference that monkeys also eat bananas) had been lynched. The case in point was the skin of a banana draped over the stump of a branch


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Old 5th September 2017, 04:20 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Have none of you been to university in a while?

I was 27-29 when I wrapped up and all the 18-22s would constantly have me rubbing my forehead going "that's the strangest way to be lazy I think I've ever seen" only to then have to reset my scale yet again about another 15-20 minutes on. Remember, these kids grew up on Beavis and Butthead and I experienced no shortage of people who could have done a great live-action improv of one (or both) parts.
If you are a kid today trained up in anti-littering and recycling, it may just be against their instinct to throw anything on the ground. No trashcan gives quite a dilemma! Finding some other more-acceptable and less-guilt-inducing place for it seems reasonable.
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Old 5th September 2017, 05:25 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
If you are a kid today trained up in anti-littering and recycling, it may just be against their instinct to throw anything on the ground. No trashcan gives quite a dilemma! Finding some other more-acceptable and less-guilt-inducing place for it seems reasonable.
This might seem shocking, but late adolescents and early adults take on a bit of an "I give no *****" attitude about life. Prior generations, I believe, used the phrase "too cool to care."
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Old 5th September 2017, 05:29 PM   #150
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Here's my dilemma:

If standing up, owning the mistake, and apologizing for it still results in the end of the event, everyone going home in a huff, and harassment and forcing out of the student who committed the offense...

...what's the response that gets everyone to take a deep breath and act like rational god damn adults?

ETA: in a Pavlovian sense, if owning the mistake and apologizing earns you no better (and potentially worse) outcome than remaining silent while people lose their ****...how likely are people to own their mistakes and apologize for them?

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Old 5th September 2017, 06:01 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Here's my dilemma:

If standing up, owning the mistake, and apologizing for it still results in the end of the event, everyone going home in a huff, and harassment and forcing out of the student who committed the offense...

...what's the response that gets everyone to take a deep breath and act like rational god damn adults?
How about summary, public execution of the litterbug?

There has been far too much "woe is me" going on over this. It was a simple mistake and a simple misunderstanding. While I have plenty of sympathy for those people who initially felt threatened, I have absolutely NO sympathy whatsoever for those SJWs who jumped on the bandwagon in an attempt to blow this trivial incident up out of all proportion once it was revealed that this was no more that a carelessly discarded piece of trash.

These people (SJWs) seem to be forever trying to dream up new ways to be offended (see the GAP clothing advert thread a while back). They need to grow up and get over themselves.
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Old 5th September 2017, 06:42 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
How about summary, public execution of the litterbug?

There has been far too much "woe is me" going on over this. It was a simple mistake and a simple misunderstanding. While I have plenty of sympathy for those people who initially felt threatened, I have absolutely NO sympathy whatsoever for those SJWs who jumped on the bandwagon in an attempt to blow this trivial incident up out of all proportion once it was revealed that this was no more that a carelessly discarded piece of trash.

These people (SJWs) seem to be forever trying to dream up new ways to be offended (see the GAP clothing advert thread a while back). They need to grow up and get over themselves.
Maybe there is significant racial tension among these students, and the banana was more the straw that broke the camel's back than much ado about nothing? From a link, third article:

Originally Posted by The DM Online
“To be clear, many members of our community were hurt, frightened, and upset by what occurred at IMPACT … Because of the underlying reality many students of color endure on a daily basis, the conversation manifested into a larger conversation about race relations today at the University of Mississippi,” Arndt wrote in the letter acquired by The DM.

...“The overall tone was heavy,” McNeil, a senior integrated marketing communications and sociology major, said. “I mean, we were talking about race in Mississippi, at the University of Mississippi and in the Greek community, so there’s a lot involved.”

...McNeil said that if the banana peel incident was an accident, people need to consider the effects of their actions versus their intent.
“You see how much fear and how much anger you insight in black people just from an unintentional image,” she said.
The conversation carried on, and tensions continued to rise. White and black members of the Ole Miss Greek community shared their views on the day’s events and race relations in general. McNeil said people had a lot to say, but the conversation began to move in an unhealthy direction.
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Old 5th September 2017, 08:40 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Maybe there is significant racial tension among these students, and the banana was more the straw that broke the camel's back than much ado about nothing? From a link, third article:
All true, but not really relevant. Its still no excuse for going on and on about it once it is known that there was no intent to threaten or intimidate, and that it was just rubbish being carelessly discarded. Once we reach this point, anyone who wants to go on beating the race angle drum is just nursing a grievance and shamelessly using it for nothing other than political point scoring.
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Old 6th September 2017, 02:56 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
If you are a kid today trained up in anti-littering and recycling, it may just be against their instinct to throw anything on the ground. No trashcan gives quite a dilemma! Finding some other more-acceptable and less-guilt-inducing place for it seems reasonable.

Are you seriously suggesting that this would make them more likely to hang it up on a tree in plain sight?

By what weird twist of logic would that be more acceptable?

Or induce less guilt?
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Old 6th September 2017, 03:01 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
All true, but not really relevant. Its still no excuse for going on and on about it once it is known claimed that there was no intent to threaten or intimidate,

FTFY.

Quote:
and that it was allegedly just rubbish being carelessly discarded.

And that.

Quote:
Once we reach this point, anyone who wants to go on beating the race angle drum is just nursing a grievance and shamelessly using it for nothing other than political point scoring.

Someone is.

We may not agree on who.
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Old 6th September 2017, 03:14 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that this would make them more likely to hang it up on a tree in plain sight?

By what weird twist of logic would that be more acceptable?

Or induce less guilt?
Well, and the post earlier by Big Dog reminded me of this, people I knew back on Merseyside would put the like of banana peel onto railings way back when rather than drop it on the ground for some perceived safety reason...presumably the whole "slipping on banana peel" thing. At least, unless a bin was around. It's not a huge leap for that to become a habit.
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Old 6th September 2017, 04:18 AM   #157
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Maybe the tree ate the banana
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Old 6th September 2017, 05:08 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Maybe the tree ate the banana

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Old 6th September 2017, 05:17 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
FTFY.

And that.
Nope you didn't fix anything, you just assumed facts not in evidence.

Why would the litterer come forward and admit being the one responsible if his real intention had been racist and to intimidate the black students? No-one knew it was him. If he was truly a racist who did this deliberately to intimidate/provoke, all he had to do was shut up, sit back and enjoy his handiwork.
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Old 6th September 2017, 05:29 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
FTFY.




And that.




Someone is.

We may not agree on who.
Well we have primary testimony from the alleged offender stating no racial hostility was intended.

On the side of racial hostility being the intent we have the fact that a banana was found on a tree branch, not hanging from a noose and how that connects to another incident through some Glenn Beck chalkboard magic.

I guess we'll never know the truth...

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