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Old 11th September 2017, 12:27 PM   #321
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How have white nationalists made it clear that the Patriots are the preferred football team? What is your source for that?
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:30 PM   #322
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The reasoning, "It's stupid and very difficult to use as one, therefore it isn't used as a racist symbol," is so flawed it's hard to know where to begin.

Yes, bananas and milk have been and are used that way. Yes, it's the height of stupidity. That it is stupid doesn't mean racists don't do it. Duh.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:46 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
How have white nationalists made it clear that the Patriots are the preferred football team? What is your source for that?
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ts-super-bowl/

So we have David Duke and Richard Spencer
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Old 11th September 2017, 01:13 PM   #324
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Somebody should put out a book on what isn't racist. They could probably write it up In five minutes.
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Old 11th September 2017, 02:42 PM   #325
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Maybe we should just ban banana's and make it the new B word. Anyone who enjoys banana's (and Patriots football apparently) is a nazi racist and should be punched by a brave freedom fighter.
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Old 11th September 2017, 02:47 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
Maybe we should just ban banana's and make it the new B word. Anyone who enjoys banana's (and Patriots football apparently) is a nazi racist and should be punched by a brave freedom fighter.
I don't understand why they weren't banned during the era of Women's Liberation.

Women can't eat one without being stared at by pervs.... I've read...
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Old 11th September 2017, 03:25 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ts-super-bowl/

So we have David Duke and Richard Spencer
To be fair, I think a case could be made that neo-nazi, white supremacist, WP groups, by "virtue" of being scum, have a natural affinity towards teams who cheat.
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Old 11th September 2017, 03:38 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
To be fair, I think a case could be made that neo-nazi, white supremacist, WP groups, by "virtue" of being scum, have a natural affinity towards teams who cheat.
On the contrary: Cheating is the last refuge of the untermensch.
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Old 11th September 2017, 04:22 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Somebody should put out a book on what isn't racist. They could probably write it up In five minutes.
1) A particular small pebble located in the northeast corner of Cowen Park in Seattle.
2) Safety pins
3) Anything done by anyone who is any race other than white, since we all know only white people can be racist
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Old 11th September 2017, 04:25 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ts-super-bowl/

So we have David Duke and Richard Spencer
So not only does David Duke think the holocaust never happened, he also thinks Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time.
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Old 11th September 2017, 04:58 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
1) A particular small pebble located in the northeast corner of Cowen Park in Seattle.
2) Safety pins
3) Anything done by anyone who is any race other than white, since we all know only white people can be racist
No on #2.

I was told numerous times that making other people's plight into an opportunity to let everyone know what a swell guy I am is showing my privilege.

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Old 11th September 2017, 05:27 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Somebody should put out a book on what isn't racist. They could probably write it up In five minutes.
Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
Maybe we should just ban banana's and make it the new B word. Anyone who enjoys banana's (and Patriots football apparently) is a nazi racist and should be punched by a brave freedom fighter.
Or instead of constructing massive straw men based on the most extreme positions of an extreme minority, we could be aware of the possibility and use contextual clues to judge any use on its merits rather than just dismissing it out of hand because 'x can't possibly be racist/sexist/etc'.

Seriously, the position 'it was a banana, therefore it couldn't have been racist' is silly. I'm not arguing that it was nor that it must have been, but the idea that any given 'x' can't be used by racists for racist reasons means we must reject the idea of abstract reasoning. Again, these people literally use milk as dog-whistle. More than that, they openly advertise it as such. Maybe they're doing such stupid things to troll at first, but after it becomes known as one, it really doesn't matter anymore. Other idiots use it in earnest.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
No on #2.

I was told numerous times that making other people's plight into an opportunity to let everyone know what a swell guy I am is showing my privilege.

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I thought about mentioning that, but there was actually a pretty big backlash by marginalized communities against that along the lines of, 'who the hell cares if it's also virtue signaling, we just want to know who isn't going to throw us to the wolves' and 'rejecting allies because it makes allies look good is rock-stupid'.
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Old 11th September 2017, 06:19 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Or instead of constructing massive straw men based on the most extreme positions of an extreme minority, we could be aware of the possibility and use contextual clues to judge any use on its merits rather than just dismissing it out of hand because 'x can't possibly be racist/sexist/etc'.

Seriously, the position 'it was a banana, therefore it couldn't have been racist' is silly. I'm not arguing that it was nor that it must have been, but the idea that any given 'x' can't be used by racists for racist reasons means we must reject the idea of abstract reasoning. Again, these people literally use milk as dog-whistle. More than that, they openly advertise it as such. Maybe they're doing such stupid things to troll at first, but after it becomes known as one, it really doesn't matter anymore. Other idiots use it in earnest.



I thought about mentioning that, but there was actually a pretty big backlash by marginalized communities against that along the lines of, 'who the hell cares if it's also virtue signaling, we just want to know who isn't going to throw us to the wolves' and 'rejecting allies because it makes allies look good is rock-stupid'.
Noosing bananas and tying them to a tree is horrible. Tossing a peel on a tree? Meh.
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Old 11th September 2017, 07:43 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I thought about mentioning that, but there was actually a pretty big backlash by marginalized communities against that along the lines of, 'who the hell cares if it's also virtue signaling, we just want to know who isn't going to throw us to the wolves' and 'rejecting allies because it makes allies look good is rock-stupid'.
I heard some of that, as well. The problem became (in my circles) that it just ended in hurt feelings somewhere often enough that it felt like an overall net negative.

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Old 11th September 2017, 08:27 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Noosing bananas and tying them to a tree is horrible. Tossing a peel on a tree? Meh.
Well, there ya go! You now have Page 1 of Wolrab's Guide to Things That Aren't Racist.

Gotcha. "Banana peel in tree: Not racist."

Can we think of some more, class?
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Old 11th September 2017, 09:57 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Is her claim true? I'm unfamiliar with many jokes which make sense to Klavern insiders.
There are possibly two part to the answer.

Firstly, there is the well-known meme that black people were supposed to look like monkeys. This meme has a long history going back before slavery.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-co...b_9345322.html

Since monkeys eat bananas, the comparison is made; the banana ended up symbolising the black person.

However, there is also a less well-known association. Plantation owners often grew bananas as a cheap form of high energy food for slaves.

http://cwh.ucsc.edu/bananas/Site/Ear...%20Banana.html

"... New World sugarcane plantations relied upon bananas to feed their slave populations. Not only did bananas provide a non-labor intensive crop for plantation workers, the fruitís easy digestibility and high energy content provided the perfect source of calories for the brutal manual labor of the cane fields."

That became a direct correlation; slaves (ergo, blacks) eat bananas!
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:24 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Thanks for the link.

p.s. They call it "soccer" down under? Huh.

Hasn't been all that long, historically speaking, since they called it that 'up over' in England, too.

That's where the word was coined. We Yanks borrowed it from the Brits at least a century ago to distinguish the sport from American football.

We're just more faithful to tradition. Brits are so faddish and flighty.
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:27 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Noosing bananas and tying them to a tree is horrible. Tossing a peel on a tree? Meh.

Because no one would ever see any connection between a banana and a banana peel. Memes can't ever possibly evolve.

("Tossed"? His description suggested he placed it there rather purposefully. It is only the purpose which is in question.)
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:30 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Well, there ya go! You now have Page 1 of Wolrab's Guide to Things That Aren't Racist.

Gotcha. "Banana peel in tree: Not racist."

Can we think of some more, class?

If I wasn't as familiar with the members of this message board as I am I would be somewhat surprised at the vigor with which otherwise educated and rational individuals argued against the existence of both overt and casual racism in the U.S.
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:55 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If I wasn't as familiar with the members of this message board as I am I would be somewhat surprised at the vigor with which otherwise educated and rational individuals argued against the existence of both overt and casual racism in the U.S.

Is there are good case to me made that Ryan Swanson was performing overt racism when he littered in the woods? Motivated by casual racism, perhaps?
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:20 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If I wasn't as familiar with the members of this message board as I am I would be somewhat surprised at the vigor with which otherwise educated and rational individuals argued against the existence of both overt and casual racism in the U.S.
And I am a bit surprised that the young man who freely admitted that he did it, explained why, and apologized profusely gets vigorously accused of racism around here
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:47 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
And I am a bit surprised that the young man who freely admitted that he did it, explained why, and apologized profusely gets vigorously accused of racism around here
Is he being vigorously accused of racism? I am reading that posters find the Litterbug Defense to smack of bovine feces. Thy 'why' of his explanation is the only part that makes it suspect.
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:48 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If I wasn't as familiar with the members of this message board as I am I would be somewhat surprised at the vigor with which otherwise educated and rational individuals argued against the existence of both overt and casual racism in the U.S.
I don't see much of that in this thread at all, to be honest.
Any highlights?
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:58 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Is he being vigorously accused of racism? I am reading that posters find the Litterbug Defense to smack of bovine feces.

Why, though? I've spent loads of time in the woods, in my wayward youth. Campers are known to litter, despite ample warnings against doing so. It hardly even feels like littering to leave apple cores or banana peels, for obvious reasons.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:12 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
And I am a bit surprised that the young man who freely admitted that he did it, explained why, and apologized profusely gets vigorously accused of racism around here
I don't see that either.

Am I reading a different thread?

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Old 12th September 2017, 07:15 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If I wasn't as familiar with the members of this message board as I am I would be somewhat surprised at the vigor with which otherwise educated and rational individuals argued against the existence of both overt and casual racism in the U.S.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
And I am a bit surprised that the young man who freely admitted that he did it, explained why, and apologized profusely gets vigorously accused of racism around here
Haven't seen much of either, if any at all.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:26 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Why, though? I've spent loads of time in the woods, in my wayward youth. Campers are known to litter, despite ample warnings against doing so. It hardly even feels like littering to leave apple cores or banana peels, for obvious reasons.
Agreed, and if he had simply littered, as in tossing it on the ground, I wouldn't doubt him. It is his claim that he couldn't find a trash can (showing some degree of concern over proper waste disposal), and solving this by...deliberately hanging it in a tree, just outside one of the buildings? Maybe he thought that rotting fruit skins at eye level and a cloud of fruit flies added to the retreat experience?

ETA: forgot to ask- when camping, how often have you intentionally hung trash at eye level in trees?
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:32 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Haven't seen much of either, if any at all.
Interesting simultaneous study of bias on both sides of the political spectrum, innit?
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:32 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I don't see that either.

Am I reading a different thread?

Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Agreed, and if he had simply littered, as in tossing it on the ground, I wouldn't doubt him. It is his claim that he couldn't find a trash can (showing some degree of concern over proper waste disposal), and solving this by...deliberately hanging it in a tree, just outside one of the buildings? Maybe he thought that rotting fruit skins at eye level and a cloud of fruit flies added to the retreat experience?
and Boom goes the dynamite.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:37 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
ETA: forgot to ask- when camping, how often have you intentionally hung trash at eye level in trees?
Never, but then I was a conscientious Boy Scout not a careless frat boy.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:43 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I don't see much of that in this thread at all, to be honest.
Any highlights?

What I see, and I'm not just referring to this thread, is an awful lot of the "Well, I'm not claiming there's no such thing as racism, but I just don't see it 'this time'." sort of argument. Much in the same vein as tobacco merchants not denying that smoking can cause cancer, but fighting in every court case that it can't be proven tobacco caused 'this cancer'.

The sum total of which seems to be that all claims of racism are to be ridiculed and dismissed.

Sorry if you disagree, but that's what I see coming from more than a few of our regular posters.

The suggestion that there is no way to relate a banana peel to a banana is a classic example of this sort of behavior.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:44 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
and Boom goes the dynamite.
And Woof goes the doggy.

Hey! Meaningless comments are fun!
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:48 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Never, but then I was a conscientious Boy Scout not a careless frat boy.
That's my point, he wasn't being careless. He deliberately placed it in a really strange and, in context of his 'couldn't find a trash bin' claim, inexplicable place. A careless frat boy tossing trash, no problem. He did not claim careless tossing.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:53 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
and Boom goes the dynamite.
I don't see that as "vigorous" in the slightest.
I see that as someone questioning the whole "placing a peel on a tree" thing. Though I will say that part has been run through a few times.

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
What I see, and I'm not just referring to this thread, is an awful lot of the "Well, I'm not claiming there's no such thing as racism, but I just don't see it 'this time'." sort of argument. Much in the same vein as tobacco merchants not denying that smoking can cause cancer, but fighting in every court case that it can't be proven tobacco caused 'this cancer'.

The sum total of which seems to be that all claims of racism are to be ridiculed and dismissed.
I suppose I can see where you're coming from, but:

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The suggestion that there is no way to relate a banana peel to a banana is a classic example of this sort of behavior.
I'm not sure I'm even seeing anyone suggesting that since clearly it can be taken that way, as that was the way it was taken by the affected individuals.

Again, the bulk of the WTF in this is the post admission hoo-ha (not that we have much detail on what exactly occurred with that). Well, until you realise it's a bunch of students...and not only that but students who go to these sorts of events. Having been stuck on a coach to go to some protest thing way back when (what can I say, it was a trip to Brighton!) it shouldn't actually be a surprise.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:01 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
I don't see that as "vigorous" in the slightest.
I see that as someone questioning the whole "placing a peel on a tree" thing. Though I will say that part has been run through a few times.



I suppose I can see where you're coming from, but:



I'm not sure I'm even seeing anyone suggesting that since clearly it can be taken that way, as that was the way it was taken by the affected individuals.

Again, the bulk of the WTF in this is the post admission hoo-ha (not that we have much detail on what exactly occurred with that). Well, until you realise it's a bunch of students...and not only that but students who go to these sorts of events. Having been stuck on a coach to go to some protest thing way back when (what can I say, it was a trip to Brighton!) it shouldn't actually be a surprise.
I borrowed vigorous from one of our earlier correspondents. Most significantly, of course, is the number of correspondents "questioning" the disclosure, admission, the apology (those that knew of the apology of course).

You think they are "Just Asking Questions"? About the "careless frat boy"?

At best they are arguing from disbelief, but in fact they believe that white frat boy put that banana peel in the tree to trigger the black students because he is racist as hell.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:01 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
<snip>

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The suggestion that there is no way to relate a banana peel to a banana is a classic example of this sort of behavior.
I'm not sure I'm even seeing anyone suggesting that since clearly it can be taken that way, as that was the way it was taken by the affected individuals.

<snip>
If you aren't sure of that then perhaps you should review the thread. The assertion that that a banana peel obviously cannot be taken as a reference to a banana, and therefore it is obviously mistaken to attribute any possibility of intent in hanging that peel on a tree has been clearly and quite directly made ... several times ... in this thread.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:06 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I borrowed vigorous from one of our earlier correspondents. Most significantly, of course, is the number of correspondents "questioning" the disclosure, admission, the apology (those that knew of the apology of course).

You think they are "Just Asking Questions"? About the "careless frat boy"?

At best they are arguing from disbelief, but in fact they believe that white frat boy put that banana peel in the tree to trigger the black students because he is racist as hell.
I'm sure you have some evidence to support this fact. You know, like a quote?

Not believing an excuse =/= accusation of being racist as hell.

ETA: no need to accuse of JAQing. His explanation is goofy. It is perfectly plausible that there are other reasons he put it there (drunk with his buddies, goofing around or some kind of inside joke) unrelated to race issues. His explanation could easily have been a hasty cover story for reasons unrelated to being 'racist as hell'.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:13 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I'm sure you have some evidence to support this fact. You know, like a quote?

Not believing an excuse =/= accusation of being racist as hell.
not believing an excuse = believing he is lying = racist.

But please regale us with tales of what you do believe the white frat boy was doing....

waits expectantly.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:23 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
not believing an excuse = believing he is lying = racist.

But please regale us with tales of what you do believe the white frat boy was doing....

waits expectantly.
You need to watch a little more Hercule Poirot and less Fox and Friends. Any good detective can tell you that not believing an excuse only means that you believe the excuse is inadequate, or if you want to put it more brutally, lying. That does not mean that you have actually grokked what actually happened, but merely what has not happened.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:26 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You need to watch a little more Hercule Poirot and less Fox and Friends. Any good detective can tell you that not believing an excuse only means that you believe the excuse is inadequate, or if you want to put it more brutally, lying. That does not mean that you have actually grokked what actually happened, but merely what has not happened.
Typically there is a reason why one believes he is lying.

I have proposed one: people think he is racist.

Not hearing anything else,

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE
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