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Old 2nd September 2017, 08:55 AM   #41
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Careful. Kumar is trying to show that some element of the potential energy given to a pendulum to start it swinging, and gradually lost as the pendulum loses energy to end at the bottom, is retained somehow. If so, then some of the 'energy' supplied to a homeopathic solution during 'potentisation' is surely left in the product at the end.

Kumar, it isn't.

As everyone here now knows, Kumar has spent 14 years on this forum trying to find a chink in the scientific armour that would provide a scientific basis for homeopathy.

Kumar, there isn't one.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 08:59 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
Careful. Kumar is trying to show that some element of the potential energy given to a pendulum to start it swinging, and gradually lost as the pendulum loses energy to end at the bottom, is retained somehow. If so, then some of the 'energy' supplied to a homeopathic solution during 'potentisation' is surely left in the product at the end.
The pendulum 'potentises' the air? Or maybe the pivot it swings on? Or even itself?

Grind up the pendulum and eat it!

Where can I buy some?
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Old 2nd September 2017, 09:06 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The pendulum 'potentises' the air? Or maybe the pivot it swings on? Or even itself?

Grind up the pendulum and eat it!

Where can I buy some?

I'll have a look around Covent Garden next time I'm there.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 09:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I shall.

Diluting out.
Homeopathy is still bunk.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 10:01 AM   #45
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Folks. His idea is based on a most terrible grasp of the English language and a even worse grasp of basic science.

In effect what he is yet again trying to get to is that a lack of a substance in water creates a negative "potential energy" and this is how water without a substance in it I. E. homoeopathy can have an effect on a disease.

It has nothing to do with what any one with even the merest grasp of understanding of potential energy in a scientific context would understand by the term.

And you will not be able to explain to him that he is totally and utterly wrong.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 10:09 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Folks. His idea is based on a most terrible grasp of the English language and a even worse grasp of basic science.

In effect what he is yet again trying to get to is that a lack of a substance in water creates a negative "potential energy" and this is how water without a substance in it I. E. homoeopathy can have an effect on a disease.

It has nothing to do with what any one with even the merest grasp of understanding of potential energy in a scientific context would understand by the term.

And you will not be able to explain to him that he is totally and utterly wrong.

Yes, we will. He just won't understand it.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 11:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Folks. His idea is based on a most terrible grasp of the English language and a even worse grasp of basic science.

In effect what he is yet again trying to get to is that a lack of a substance in water creates a negative "potential energy" and this is how water without a substance in it I. E. homoeopathy can have an effect on a disease.

It has nothing to do with what any one with even the merest grasp of understanding of potential energy in a scientific context would understand by the term.

And you will not be able to explain to him that he is totally and utterly wrong.
Well, I dunno.

If pendulosum gravitus can cure my static electricity problems I'm willing to give it a try.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 04:10 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
If you cut the pendulum string/chain/whatever it will fall. Thus it still has PE.

No, homeopathy still doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Pls avoid derailing the thread.
You sticking with that story Kumar?
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Old 2nd September 2017, 05:44 PM   #49
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Ok, then I leave. Thanks.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:31 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Folks. His idea is based on a most terrible grasp of the English language and a even worse grasp of basic science.

In effect what he is yet again trying to get to is that a lack of a substance in water creates a negative "potential energy" and this is how water without a substance in it I. E. homoeopathy can have an effect on a disease.

It has nothing to do with what any one with even the merest grasp of understanding of potential energy in a scientific context would understand by the term.

And you will not be able to explain to him that he is totally and utterly wrong.
Yes but, people here understand or not also depend on what I discuss--PE or PE dynamics. People do understand "already well understood things in science" for which even language do not affect but not which are not yet well understood--somewhat non-A&F. Later will need wild speculations and flexibility to get clues for yet unclear things in science. Science also base clues and anticipate too much flexibility as it changes, reject or accept as per new understandings because it is not yet A&F.

Sorry & best wishes.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Well, I dunno.

If pendulosum gravitus can cure my static electricity problems I'm willing to give it a try.
Falling apple inspired the understanding of gravitational force. Biggest achievement by wild/dynamic speculation.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:45 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I'll have a look around Covent Garden next time I'm there.
Garden reminded me:

Falling apple inspired the understanding of gravitational force. Biggest achievement by wild/dynamic speculation.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:50 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
Careful. Kumar is trying to show that some element of the potential energy given to a pendulum to start it swinging, and gradually lost as the pendulum loses energy to end at the bottom, is retained somehow. If so, then some of the 'energy' supplied to a homeopathic solution during 'potentisation' is surely left in the product at the end.

Kumar, it isn't.

As everyone here now knows, Kumar has spent 14 years on this forum trying to find a chink in the scientific armour that would provide a scientific basis for homeopathy.

Kumar, there isn't one.
"Falling apple inspired the understanding of gravitational force. Biggest achievement by wild/dynamic speculation."

I am trying to discuss here PE dynamics not PE routine. Any work done for anything should bring some changes to justify conservation of energy, One should be Heat+PE.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 07:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Falling apple inspired the understanding of gravitational force. Biggest achievement by wild/dynamic speculation.
Newton backed up his ideas. You cannot. Big difference.

And the gallileo gambit is so 20th century.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 08:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Newton backed up his ideas. You cannot. Big difference.

And the gallileo gambit is so 20th century.
May be bit later.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 11:31 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Falling apple inspired the understanding of gravitational force.
In the words of Stephen Hawking on Star Trek: "That story is widely believed to be apocryphal".
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Old 2nd September 2017, 11:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
In the words of Stephen Hawking on Star Trek: "That story is widely believed to be apocryphal".
It also:
"Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in."
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Old 2nd September 2017, 11:58 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Newton backed up his ideas. You cannot. Big difference.

And the gallileo gambit is so 20th century.
...2

and why not I? I made justification by "adsorption" model.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 12:47 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
...2

and why not I? I made justification by "adsorption" model.

You attempted to, but you failed to establish that it actually happens. Or that homoeopathy works.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:05 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You attempted to, but you failed to establish that it actually happens. Or that homoeopathy works.
No I have not failed in it. It is quite logical. Nor in many others. It is different, either you couldn't digest or couldn't understand. Not an issue on my side.

Rest as per practical/Clinical significance, being ultimate, hold significance.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:13 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No I have not failed in it. It is quite logical. Nor in many others. It is different, either you couldn't digest or couldn't understand. Not an issue on my side.

OK, technically you have not actually failed, but only because you haven't even attempted to demonstrate that it happens. All you are providing is conjecture, and worse, conjecture that is inconsistent with the methods Hahnemann actually used.

Quote:
Rest as per practical/Clinical significance, being ultimate, hold significance.

There is no good evidence that homoeopathy has any clinical significance beyond its ability to amuse the patient while nature takes its course, and fill the wallet of the homoeopath.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
OK, technically you have not actually failed, but only because you haven't even attempted to demonstrate that it happens. All you are providing is conjecture, and worse, conjecture that is inconsistent with the methods Hahnemann actually used.




There is no good evidence that homoeopathy has any clinical significance beyond its ability to amuse the patient while nature takes its course, and fill the wallet of the homoeopath.
We have been gifted very good understanding & logical capability i by nature, may it be somewhat infinite. So we should use it.

Simply find out the answers of these questions:

1. Why K and H method using either same bottle or different bottles at different steps, is suggested? Reason, if one part is same in both cases?

2. Estimate practicality of total numbers of bottles can be required if different bottle is used at different steps for all remedies & all potencies. Whether this much can be available in whole world?

3. If not, how homeopathic pharmacopoeias would have suggested using different bottles?

4. Why it can't be for to enhance dilution i.e by using different bottles only upto below 12C then same bottle?

On finding the answers of above questions you can easily understand, what is what in practical.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:36 AM   #63
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Mojo,
....2

5. How modern well educated people in millions and when many options are easily available. go even repeatedly to homeopaths and take treatments?
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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:46 AM   #64
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Lots of people believe in lots of stupid things.
There is no god.
Homeopathy is bunk.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:59 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Lots of people believe in lots of stupid things.
.
Yes. All sided.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:21 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We have been gifted very good understanding & logical capability i by nature, may it be somewhat infinite. So we should use it.

But you don't.

Quote:
Simply find out the answers of these questions:

1. Why K and H method using either same bottle or different bottles at different steps, is suggested? Reason, if one part is same in both cases?

Samuel Hahnemann made up a method of preparing remedies based on the magical idea that serial dilution would enhance the beneficial effects and remove the harmful ones. There is no reason to think this us the case, and no evidence for it. Later, Semen Korsakov made up a different method of serial dilution. Remedies made by either method are equally ineffective.

Quote:
2. Estimate practicality of total numbers of bottles can be required if different bottle is used at different steps for all remedies & all potencies. Whether this much can be available in whole world?

A 200CH remedy requires 200 bottles, assuming that none of them are simply rinsed out and reused. There are more than 200 bottles in the world.

Quote:
3. If not, how homeopathic pharmacopoeias would have suggested using different bottles?

Because that's what the prophet Hahnemann told them to do.

Quote:
4. Why it can't be for to enhance dilution i.e by using different bottles only upto below 12C then same bottle?

There is no evidence that dilution enhances anything.

Quote:
On finding the answers of above questions you can easily understand, what is what in practical.

None of this has any relevance to whether homoeopathy works, or your inability to detect the starting material, or any "information" pertaining to it, in the remedies. You might as well be arguing about how many angels can dance on the head if a pin, or the colour of the wings on the fairies at the bottom of your garden. Like angels and fairies, homoeopathy is made-up nonsense.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:22 AM   #67
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Quote:
The term potential energy was introduced by the 19th century Scottish engineer and physicist William Rankine,[3][4] although it has links to Greek philosopher Aristotle's concept of potentiality. Potential energy is associated with forces that act on a body in a way that the total work done by these forces on the body depends only on the initial and final positions of the body in space. These forces, that are called conservative forces, can be represented at every point in space by vectors expressed as gradients of a certain scalar function called potential.

Since the work of potential forces acting on a body that moves from a start to an end position is determined only by these two positions, and does not depend on the trajectory of the body, there is a function known as potential or potential energy that can be evaluated at the two positions to determine this work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_energy
Just quoting above to enhance meaning of this topic.

Say for example: A young man does exercise regularily. No exchange of chemicals but just work done by applying force. Although, he may loose weight, water & health but he gain in specific potentiality to that exercise. A swimmer shall be able to swim more and better after regular practice,. It means his specific potentiality or potential energy to swim due to work done has increased. So just alike it.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:30 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Say for example: A young man does exercise regularily. No exchange of chemicals but just work done by applying force. Although, he may loose weight, water & health but he gain in specific potentiality to that exercise. A swimmer shall be able to swim more and better after regular practice,. It means his specific potentiality or potential energy to swim due to work done has increased. So just alike it.

You clearly don't understand what is meant by the term "potential energy".
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:46 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You clearly don't understand what is meant by the term "potential energy".
There fore PE-dynamics.

Force applied/Work done may not exactly equal to heat lost but also scope for PE or Potential gained. Energy conversation and energy conservation can also be in form of heat and PE. Both are energy.

We may also need to understand inharent vs acquired. Giving light is an inherent property of SUN but acquired of Moon.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:59 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
But you don't.




Samuel Hahnemann made up a method of preparing remedies based on the magical idea that serial dilution would enhance the beneficial effects and remove the harmful ones. There is no reason to think this us the case, and no evidence for it. Later, Semen Korsakov made up a different method of serial dilution. Remedies made by either method are equally ineffective.




A 200CH remedy requires 200 bottles, assuming that none of them are simply rinsed out and reused. There are more than 200 bottles in the world.

Because that's what the prophet Hahnemann told them to do.

Count for all remedies, all potencies and for all potencies. Not only one remedy, one potency and one pharmacy exist in this world. Moreover, bottles may be, whether practical to use all or not? Do you feel, Samuel Hahnemann could had used this much bottles. He would had just experimented for few and WHY so, thing about its logic. If no difference in both method, WHY to unnecessary use so many bottles? That should had been either for experiment on few or limited to potencies below 12C.



Quote:
There is no evidence that dilution enhances anything.


None of this has any relevance to whether homoeopathy works, or your inability to detect the starting material, or any "information" pertaining to it, in the remedies. You might as well be arguing about how many angels can dance on the head if a pin, or the colour of the wings on the fairies at the bottom of your garden. Like angels and fairies, homoeopathy is made-up nonsense.
Read in PE topic, relevance of exercise or work done with the increase in specific potentials inspite no chemical changed, heat lost etc.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 03:07 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
If you cut the pendulum string/chain/whatever it will fall. Thus it still has PE.

No, homeopathy still doesn't work.
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Pls avoid derailing the thread.
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Count for all remedies, all potencies and for all potencies. Not only one remedy, one potency and one pharmacy exist in this world. Moreover, bottles may be, whether practical to use all or not? Do you feel, Samuel Hahnemann could had used this much bottles. He would had just experimented for few and WHY so, thing about its logic. If no difference in both method, WHY to unnecessary use so many bottles? That should had been either for experiment on few or limited to potencies below 12C.

Read in PE topic, relevance of exercise or work done with the increase in specific potentials inspite no chemical changed, heat lost etc.
In post#2
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
If you cut the pendulum string/chain/whatever it will fall. Thus it still has PE.

No, homeopathy still doesn't work.
In post #3
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Pls avoid derailing the thread.
Yet here you are with the homeopatholigical baloney. 14 years and still going.

What you want to do is claim that PE is somehow a transmitter for the healing power of homeopathy (LOL) once again. No. It isn't. That would be a stupid claim to make for obvious reasons.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 03:23 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Count for all remedies, all potencies and for all potencies. Not only one remedy, one potency and one pharmacy exist in this world. Moreover, bottles may be, whether practical to use all or not? Do you feel, Samuel Hahnemann could had used this much bottles.

That's what he said he did. Are you calling Hahnemann a liar?

Quote:
He would had just experimented for few and WHY so, thing about its logic. If no difference in both method, WHY to unnecessary use so many bottles? That should had been either for experiment on few or limited to potencies below 12C.

It doesn't matter how many bottles are used because homoeopathy doesn't work.

Quote:
Read in PE topic, relevance of exercise or work done with the increase in specific potentials inspite no chemical changed, heat lost etc.

You've already admitted that you don't understand what potential energy is. Your conjectures about it are worthless.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 03:26 AM   #73
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I must admit, I'm impressed that Kumar is now apparently arguing that homoeopathy is impossible because there are not enough bottles in the world.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 03:28 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I must admit, I'm impressed that Kumar is now apparently arguing that homoeopathy is impossible because there are not enough bottles in the world.
It's a homeopathic bottle. The idea of it is sufficient, and indeed more potent.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 04:12 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post


That's what he said he did. Are you calling Hahnemann a liar?




It doesn't matter how many bottles are used because homoeopathy doesn't work.




You've already admitted that you don't understand what potential energy is. Your conjectures about it are worthless.
No it is not lying. That was/is practicality.

Your observation and statics may not be other's experience & practical.

PE dynamics. Therefore checking.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 04:17 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It's a homeopathic bottle. The idea of it is sufficient, and indeed more potent.
Till, energetic presence is justified, to justify molecular presence is only practical. It is sure some just justification do exists in view of practical/clinical significance.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 04:18 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I must admit, I'm impressed that Kumar is now apparently arguing that homoeopathy is impossible because there are not enough bottles in the world.
NO.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 04:30 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No it is not lying. That was/is practicality.

Your observation and statics may not be other's experience & practical.

Homoeopaths claim that they prepare remedies in a particular way. You are suggesting that their claims are impossible. This is the same "homeopathic community" that you rely on for evidence of the "practical/clinical significance" of homoeopathy. And now you imply that they are not truthful.

Quote:
PE dynamics. Therefore checking.

You're not "checking" anything. You're making stuff up.
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Last edited by Mojo; 3rd September 2017 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 04:35 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Till, energetic presence is justified, to justify molecular presence is only practical. It is sure some just justification do exists in view of practical/clinical significance.
That's incoherent.

Your hovercraft is full of eels.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 04:35 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Till, energetic presence is justified, to justify molecular presence is only practical. It is sure some just justification do exists in view of practical/clinical significance.

There is no reliable evidence of "practical/clinical significance". When sources of bias are eliminated so are the apparent effects.

There is nothing to "justify".
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