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Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial , World War II history

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Old 20th September 2017, 01:51 PM   #201
LemmyCaution
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Anyone who studies any of the witness testimony will quickly discover that it is prima facie absurd.
This isn't even an argument. It's nothing. Worthless verbiage.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
But do note that the challenge to name one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with any corroborating testimony, and any physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony, goes unanswered.
Except you've been given the following names, for starters, and in the case of Krzepicki and Rabinowicz a long analysis of their testimonies: Abraham Krzepicki/Jacob Rabinowitz, Kazimierz Sakowicz, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, David Oleré, Anton Schmid, Stanislaw Szmmajzner

Which reminds me . . . how you coming with details on your claims about forgery and torture?
>> Who did the forgery, and when did they start? How did they persuade various Nazis to admit to it and, as a consequence, die? How were all the supporting documents found in archives on both sides of the Iron Curtain forged? When were they forged, who did the work, how did they get the documents into archives?
>> Tell us all about the torture of the defendants in the Einsatzgruppen trial (NMT, trial IX). Tell us who was tortured, who tortured these men and when, what the torture consisted of, what the aim was of the torture, how you know about the torture, and how the alleged torture figured in the witness' testimony and in the convictions.

Cat got you tongue, so to speak? You like to claim a lot . . . and then change the subject . . . LOL
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Old 20th September 2017, 01:54 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Anyone who studies any of the witness testimony will quickly discover that it is prima facie absurd. Another of my favorites is F. Meuller, who is by the way according to Yad Vashem director Yehuda Bauer the only man who saw the Jewish people die and lived to tell about it, and his testimony is incomparably absurd.

Don't take my word for it. But do note that the challenge to name one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with any corroborating testimony, and any physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony, goes unanswered.
Stop telling porkies. Not only did I give Jewish eyewitnesses but I gave German eyewitnesses as well.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11952232


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post11998260
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Old 20th September 2017, 01:59 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
This isn't even an argument. It's nothing. Worthless verbiage.
It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.

She nailed it.

Try it, it's easy.
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:00 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Stop telling porkies. Not only did I give Jewish eyewitnesses but I gave German eyewitnesses as well.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11952232


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post11998260
Thanks for these links, oldies but goodies . . . and for the reminder that Saggy has also refused to answer what I asked him in this post about 7 additional witness accounts: how is each (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above?
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:01 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.

She nailed it.

Try it, it's easy.
You statement, to which I responded was not about Wiesel - it referred to "any of the witness testimony." You've been given names of witnesses to discuss - repeatedly - and just as repeatedly refused to discuss them. And we've shown how dishonest and ill informed your posts on your favorite witnesses are . . .

Strange I won't take the word of your perhaps non-existent middle school daughter . . .

As to "trying it" with Wiesel, already did:
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
And he's been proven wrong on the one claim he made about Wiesel
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:04 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.

She nailed it.

Try it, it's easy.
Yawn. Personal anecdotes an' all that.
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:11 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Thanks for these links, oldies but goodies . . . and for the reminder that Saggy has also refused to answer what I asked him in this post about 7 additional witness accounts: how is each (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above?
I believe (e) all of the above applies only to the Jews. However, Saggy also believes one can make an "Heroic Lie"-like padding out your C.V. telling people on the internet that you were involved in designing weapon systems, things of that nature are examples of "Heroic Lies". And they are never told by Jews.
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:16 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yawn. Personal anecdotes an' all that.
More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.

Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course.

For any non-hasbara, try it. 'Night' is online ....

Night
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:30 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.

Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course.

For any non-hasbara, try it.
Saggy, enjoyable as this is, and convinced as I am that if you had even an 8th grader's knowledge about the war and genocide it'd be an improvement over your current state, I am not going to debate with you an 8th grader's thoughts about the Holocaust. Especially not when you are so eager not to discuss this, any of these topics, the questions in this post, the photographs you requested, the physical evidence for Chełmno, this photograph, and so on.
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:39 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.

Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course.

For any non-hasbara, try it. 'Night' is online ....

Night
What kind of Nazi propaganda are you feeding to your child?

I showed the bollocks you come out with to my daughter, she looked disgusted and shook her head saying "some people are crazy."
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Old 20th September 2017, 02:41 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
. . . For any non-hasbara, try it. . . .
Address the argument, not the arguer. I dare you to try that.
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Old 20th September 2017, 03:44 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
At this point, I simply call to readers' attention that Saggy, failing basic discussion norms and unable to offer evidence-based arguments for his claims, repeatedly addresses the arguer, not the argument

In fact he repeatedly makes a false accusation about me and other members of this forum, that we are engaged in hasbara, despite his admitting that he has no way of knowing that his accusation is true ("there is no way to tell"). He makes the accusation anyway, because he thinks personal attacks will detract from his persistent failure to defend his claims and cover over his ignorance of this topic.
It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.

And, while it is impossible to tell if someone has had hasbara training, it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara. Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara.

The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject, because the goal is to make rational discussion impossible, and the easiest way to do that is to just generate endless idiotic insults.

And even if the hasbara is knowledgeable, he/she is not bound by the rules of common debate, and can inject mindless idiocy and demeaning insult at will, as is the universal prerogative of the chosen.

And, I don't think anyone would characterize the 'discussion' in this thread as rational and well-reasoned. Which means that the hasbara have accomplished their goal, in spades.

So, for the most part I don't respond to hasbara, e.g. your endless idiotic 'questions', except to make a point of my own. However, if anything interesting does appear, not like, say, Bloble using a flamethrower to disappear bodies, or something that represents a challenge, I try to respond to the best of my ability, just to have a point of interest beyond bashing the hoax.
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Old 20th September 2017, 03:50 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.
Address the argument, not the arguer.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara.
"It's is" not - and I have not once, for example, made a post in this forum "defending Israel."

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara.
You just called yourself a de-facto hasbara.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject, because the goal is to make rational discussion impossible, and the easiest way to do that is to just generate endless idiotic insults.
You just wrote for the 2nd time that you engage in hasbara. You're not making any sense, Saggy.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I don't think anyone would characterize the 'discussion' in this thread as rational and well-reasoned.
Not your posts, true.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Which means that the hasbara have accomplished their goal, in spades.
Again you do it!

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Bloble
Friend of Hilter's?

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
using a flamethrower to disappear bodies, or something that represents a challenge, I try to respond to the best of my ability, just to have a point of interest beyond bashing the hoax.
You ignored the evidence cited in favor of baseless incredulity and childish insults about "hasbaras."
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Old 20th September 2017, 03:59 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
"It's is" not - and I have not once, for example, made a post in this forum "defending Israel."
Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.

But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while.
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Old 20th September 2017, 04:10 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.

But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while.
You do need to take a break, you keep digging your hole deeper.

I will let others, who know about Israel more than I do, reply to the rest - except to say that of course you can't cite a single post of mine here, or in other forums, defending Israel. When I post about the Holocaust I think about history, not the present. It's as simple as that.
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Old 20th September 2017, 04:54 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.

But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while.
I defend historical fact, and I defend the victims of Nazi crimes, Jewish and non-Jewish.

Two of my own relatives were murdered by the Nazis, neither of whom were Jewish.
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Old 20th September 2017, 06:18 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.

Aw, how nice of the murderers.
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Old 20th September 2017, 06:32 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.

You can always talk to me, Saggy. I'm not a hasbro.


Quote:
And, while it is impossible to tell if someone has had hasbara training, it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara. Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara.
I was actually looking more at you when I think "mindless, insulting, zero-content" posts in this thread.

Quote:
The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject,
I actually think of deniers. It's obvious that most of you know nothing about the subject.

Quote:
And even if the hasbara is knowledgeable, he/she is not bound by the rules of common debate, and can inject mindless idiocy and demeaning insult at will, as is the universal prerogative of the chosen.
"Chosen?"

I think I'm already bored.

Saggy, you essentially ignore anything that we show you. Your response is it stick your fingers in your ears and plow on mindlessly, like some sort of denier tank. Frankly I'd drop the whole thing but I'm fascinated by the BS you come up with. It also encourages me to update my list:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopi...7156&start=880

If you honestly want a discussion we can have one but you actually need to pay attention.
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Old 20th September 2017, 07:50 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
No thread about the hoax is complete without sob stories. The sob stories of the usually Jewish victims of the Nazis is one of the extraordinary features of the extended holohoax - i.e. the Nazis are the embodiment of evil.

I remember seeing an Anne Frank exhibit once, and even then, knowing nothing of the hoax, I thought, what about the Palestinian children killed in their homeland, even as this exhibit is on display, by Jews. It was a slightly sickening feeling.

Even now, at my kids school, they give out an Anne Frank 'humanitarian award' every year to the student who does such and such. I think I'll pay someone to distribute this photo at the ceremony ...

Jews watch and cheer as phosphorous weapons are used on defenseless Palestinians

< snip >
You are - and proud of it - ignorant about the history of the Third Reich, WWII, and Nazi crimes and your point of view is shaped by an anti-Semitic agenda, not familiarity with the wide range of sources for the Holocaust. Frankly, what the Nazis did is a matter of evidence - not views about Israel and the oppression of Palestinians. Your anti-Semitism is so thorough that you read a post discussing non-Jewish victims of the Nazis as a sob story of the usually Jewish victims.
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Old 20th September 2017, 07:50 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.
OK. Was this a revelation for you?
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:29 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
you read a post discussing non-Jewish victims of the Nazis as a sob story of the usually Jewish victims.
An honest mistake*. I've read 1000 sob stories about Jewish victims, and this was the first about a non-Jewish victim.

*That I didn't make.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:30 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Makes no difference, it's a sob story. It only matters if the perpetrators are the Nazis.
I call nonsense. It matters - and that's why we post about it - when the perpetrators are Ustasha, Arrow Cross, Lithuanian partisans, Latvian militia men, Romanian military units and killing squads, or others. Just as it also matters when the victims of extra-legal violence, war crimes and crimes against humanity were Poles, Russians, Roma, Serbs, American GIs, Italians, Japanese, or Germans . . .

Pleases stop making things up about what others on this forum say and believe.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:33 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
An honest mistake. I've read 1000 sob stories about Jewish victims, and this was the first about a non-Jewish victim.
Your reading is limited - you might want to look up the A-B Aktion and Operation Tannenburg or read about the priests held at Dachau or find out about T-4 and 14f13, for starters - and you rarely post anything honest on this forum. It was not a mistake: it was your bias coloring your reading.

Your selective animus toward victims of crimes is, however, matched by your fact-free, disingenuous repetition.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:37 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Aw, how nice of the murderers.
Provide one shred of physical or documentary evidence that anyone was murdered at Auschwitz. You cannot do it.

Then read about the role played by Nazi Judge Konrad Morgen, who led more that 800 investigations of crimes by the SS in the camps and prosecuted 200+ cases, resulting in many convictions and the executions of two camp commandants.

The Nazis actually prosecuted crime in the camps, as opposed to the US at Abu Graib, for example, on any of the other secret US prisons around the world.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:40 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Don't quibble D. When 'debating' with the hasbara the idiotic lies are endless.
have you met yourself? You have not responded to any citations of evidence raised by any poster here. One gets the impression that you prefer to live i n blissful ignorance of the facts.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:43 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
The holohoax is has the distinction of being the only hoax were the preposterous lies were etched in stone .... then cast in brass .... here it is ......


Then, 50 years after the fact, and after glasnost, the truth was revealed ....
You do realize that the death books pertain only to prisoners registered at the three Auschwitz camps? Those gassed on arrival were not registered as that process occurred after the separation or working and non-working inmates. This has been known to scholars for decades and you are behind the curve.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:44 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
I call nonsense. It matters - and that's why we post about it - when the perpetrators are Ustasha, Arrow Cross, Lithuanian partisans, Latvian militia men, Romanian military units and killing squads, or others. Just as it also matters when the victims of extra-legal violence, war crimes and crimes against humanity were Poles, Russians, Roma, Serbs, American GIs, Italians, Japanese, or Germans . . .

Pleases stop making things up about what others on this forum say and believe.
This is getting annoying, show me one sob story about victims of the Ustasha. ...snip... Or one sob story where the victim was a Serb.

Edited by jsfisher:  Edited for compliance with Rules 0 and 12 of the Membership Agreement.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:48 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by LeoMajor View Post
You do realize that the death books pertain only to prisoners registered at the three Auschwitz camps? Those gassed on arrival were not registered as that process occurred after the separation or working and non-working inmates. This has been known to scholars for decades and you are behind the curve.
I'm well aware of that Leo, that is, that there is not a shred of documentary of physical evidence of the holohoax at Auschwitz, or anywhere else, just the endless Jewish lies and false and absurd 'confessions'.

Since the entire holohoax is based on 'testimony' of Jewish eyewitnesses, that is why it is important to examine that testimony closely, and why I will continue to present the testmony of the most important witnesses in subsequent posts. Jewish testimony is invariably false to the point of absurdity, as we have seen with the witnesses discussed to this point.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:54 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Provide one shred of physical or documentary evidence that anyone was murdered at Auschwitz. You cannot do it.

Then read about the role played by Nazi Judge Konrad Morgen, who led more that 800 investigations of crimes by the SS in the camps and prosecuted 200+ cases, resulting in many convictions and the executions of two camp commandants.

The Nazis actually prosecuted crime in the camps, as opposed to the US at Abu Graib, for example, on any of the other secret US prisons around the world.
Morgen prosecuted mainly corruption in the camps, an approach which Morgen himself called "a possible way of proceeding." That course was to hit the perpetrators he could with corruption charges, since he couldn't go after them directly for the mass murder and since, in Morgen's view, the debased process inevitably debased those participating in it and would lead them to corrupt activities. When Morgen tried to investigate Maximilian Grabner, head of the Political Department (Gestapo) in Auschwitz, Gestapo Müller summoned him to Gestapo headquarters to chew him out for his having "no understanding of state police matters." Faced with a not-so-senior SS judicial official questioning the state policy of murder of the Jews, Müller went ballistic and threw Morgen out of his office in the midst of his tirade against him. Interestingly, during 1944 he tried to arrest and prosecute Eichmann (!) - on account of the pilfering of a bag of diamonds (likely done by someone else) - using any pretext he could come up with to get at the perpetrators of the FS. He also went after Höss, using the Hodys affair.

Pohl despised Morgen. He repeatedly went to Himmler complaining about Morgen's work and he impeded his investigations. In summer 1944 - at a time when Morgen had filed his report on Buchenwald and prepared an indictment against the defendants, had sent evidence against Eichmann to an SS court, was preparing his case against Grabner at Auschwitz - Pohl issued an order to the KL commandants saying that no SS judges were to be granted access to the camps without the judge having been granted an access card by Pohl. The SS judge for the special court established to try SS cases was at the time warning Morgen to back off - enough that Morgen wrote his fiancee about the poisoned relations between him and the judge. As things heated up, Himmler granted Morgen a promotion - and an enforced 3-week vacation during which he was forbidden to work on his cases. Himmler also had his top legal adviser discuss with Morgen "fundamental questions about the conduct of investigations." A warrant may have been issued for his arrest by the RHSA. In the fall of 1944, at the Buchenwald trial, Morgen felt as though he were the one charged. The outcome of the Buchenwald trial saw Koch receiving the death penalty - but only for corruption, not for illegal killings. Ilse Koch was acquitted. Hoven, a physician at Buchenwald and one of those charged, was not convicted but remained in prison facing re-trial. The Grabner Auschwitz trial was abandoned. Earlier in 1944 Müller, Eichmann's boss, had instructed Morgen not to pursue the case against Eichmann because Eichmann was "carrying out a special secret task of utmost importance entrusted to him by the Führer." And Morgen's case against Höss stalled.

Allied bombing forced Morgen to move his office to Bavaria in the fall. He took his mandated vacation in November and, on his return, was reassigned off his cases to Crakow, which he fled in early 1945 to begin a series of moves to avoid being taken by the Soviets.

Just to be factual here, please tell Charles Graner that no one was prosecuted for the abuse at Abu Ghraib.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:55 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
My refrain is there is no physical evidence for the hoax.
I linked the archaeological investigation of Dr. Andreasz Kola in a previous thread. I will do so again here.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html

https://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/Belzec1/bel100.html

Quote:
No matter how many hoax witnesses
Translation: Inconvenient witnesses

Quote:
irrelevant documents,
Translation: evidence i don't like and chose to ignore

Quote:
Six million murdered in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms
Annnnnnnd I stopped reading there.

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Old 20th September 2017, 08:57 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I'm well aware of that Leo, that is, that there is not a shred of documentary of physical evidence of the holohoax at Auschwitz, or anywhere else, just the endless Jewish lies and false and absurd 'confessions'.
I'll spoon it out piece by piece for your benefit. Are you aware of Fritz Sander's 02/17/43 memo regarding Auschwitz? Please do some reading. You have a lot of catching up to do.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:06 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
This is getting annoying, show me one sob story about victims of the Ustasha. ...snip... Or one sob story where the victim was a Serb.
Edited by jsfisher:  Moderated content redacted.

Without accepting your terminology (sob stories), for starters here is a page of testimonies from survivors of Ustasha predations: Serbian Holocaust - Voices of Survivors.

I suggest reading for a Serbian pov Srdja Trifkovic, Ustasa: Croatian Fascism and European Politics, 1929-1945. Barry Lituchy, Jasenovac and the Holocaust in Yugoslavia has a great deal of source material and articles on the annihilation of Serbs at the Jasenovac camp (I'm too tired to go find the book in my basement and type out excerpts). For Ustasha participation in the Holocaust, Goldstein & Goldstein, The Holocaust in Croatia.

I realize, Saggy, that you don't want to have to find out what scholars and others have written in books, so I am posting these references for readers who may be interested.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:08 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Just to be factual here, please tell Charles Graner that no one was prosecuted for the abuse at Abu Ghraib.
I thought they prosecuted a girl from WV too, hadn't heard of Graner, so they prosecuted 1 or 2 grunts after months of media attention. Nothing remotely comparable to Morgen who prosecuted and convicted 2 camp commandants.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:10 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Since the entire [Holocaust] is based on 'testimony' of Jewish eyewitnesses
totally false, a shameless lie

Raul Hilberg's classic 3-volume study is almost entirely document based, to take a single case. 100s and 100s of documents are cited in the 5-volume Auschwitz history. And so on. . ..
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:10 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I thought they prosecuted a girl from WV too, hadn't heard of Graner, so they prosecuted 1 or 2 grunts after months of media attention. Nothing remotely comparable to Morgen who prosecuted and convicted 2 camp commandants.
yes, for corruption related offenses, not for mass killings of prisoners.

Morgen, btw, testified at length about witnessing confiscated property plundered from victims of the AR camps at Lublin Airfield.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:11 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I thought they prosecuted a girl from WV too, hadn't heard of Graner, so they prosecuted 1 or 2 grunts after months of media attention. Nothing remotely comparable to Morgen who prosecuted and convicted 2 camp commandants.
Lynndie England. There were also several plea bargains.

I didn't say the two cases were comparable - or that the US successfully prosecuted those responsible for Abu Ghraib. I said only that your post was false and misleading. Please read more carefully.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:16 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
totally false, a shameless lie

Raul Hilberg's classic 3-volume study is almost entirely document based, to take a single case. 100s and 100s of documents are cited in the 5-volume Auschwitz history. And so on. . ..
You do realize one of Hilberg's most cited sources was Yankel Wiernik, right

We'll get to that idiot.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:47 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
You do realize one of Hilberg's most cited sources was Yankel Wiernik, right

We'll get to that idiot.
He cited hundreds of primary sources from archives. Wiernik is a nonentity by comparison.
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Old 20th September 2017, 11:34 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
You do realize one of Hilberg's most cited sources was Yankel Wiernik, right

We'll get to that idiot.
Can't wait! The silence is deafening. Which one of your pages from Holohoax 101 will you be posting again? Oh ... that's right, you can't repeat the same thing over and over on this forum. Well ...I'm sure you'll come up with something new ...
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Old 21st September 2017, 01:43 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Provide one shred of physical or documentary evidence that anyone was murdered at Auschwitz. You cannot do it.

Then read about the role played by Nazi Judge Konrad Morgen, who led more that 800 investigations of crimes by the SS in the camps and prosecuted 200+ cases, resulting in many convictions and the executions of two camp commandants.

The Nazis actually prosecuted crime in the camps, as opposed to the US at Abu Graib, for example, on any of the other secret US prisons around the world.
Ummm... you do realise Morgen was mostly concerned with corruption and pilfering of valuables by guards, and killing of prisoners "beyond the general guidelines?"

He also saw the gas chambers, by the way:

Quote:
A big door led to the so-called undressing room, where there were numbered places and cloakroom tickets. Arrows on the wall pointed to the showers. The signs were in six or seven languages. In the enormous crematorium everything was spick and span. Nothing suggested that thousands of people had been gassed and burned the previous night. Nothing was left of them, not even a speck of dust on the oven fittings.
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