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Tags General Skepticism humor , logical fallacies , pedophilia conspiracies

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Old 11th August 2016, 06:17 PM   #41
simonxlong
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Which of the world's known governments (did or would do) today or historically is/was likely to be sending, or have sent, their forces out across the world looking for old stuff whether on land (like antartica) or underwater?

Such as govt forces looking for old stuff mythical or not across world.

As seen in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", for example.

What do historians have to share on this?
I imagine it would be less governments and more wealthy individuals and organizations with agendas involved in any sort of hunt for mythical stuff, such as churches looking for proof of the Bible or treasure hunters seeking Black Beard's loot. Most governments are more likely to sponsor archeological expeditions related to credible academics endeavors.

In the case of governments sponsoring odd archeology, it's almost always related to proving a specific ideological point in order to propagate a political agenda, such as idolizing Aryans for the Nazis or Vlad in Romania. Usually, this agenda is pretty clearly apparent, so "findings" are usually taken with a grain of salt by the rest of the world.
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Old 11th August 2016, 10:28 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hey, both Nazis and Indiana Jones were looking for Atlantis in the Computer game "Indiana Jones and The Fate Of Atlantis".
Ah, right, I knew that sounded familiar.
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Old 11th August 2016, 10:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hey, both Nazis and Indiana Jones were looking for Atlantis in the Computer game "Indiana Jones and The Fate Of Atlantis".
WOW! That just proves that Atlantis is real!
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Old 12th August 2016, 05:41 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by simonxlong View Post
I imagine it would be less governments and more wealthy individuals and organizations with agendas involved in any sort of hunt for mythical stuff, such as churches looking for proof of the Bible or treasure hunters seeking Black Beard's loot. Most governments are more likely to sponsor archeological expeditions related to credible academics endeavors.

In the case of governments sponsoring odd archeology, it's almost always related to proving a specific ideological point in order to propagate a political agenda, such as idolizing Aryans for the Nazis or Vlad in Romania. Usually, this agenda is pretty clearly apparent, so "findings" are usually taken with a grain of salt by the rest of the world.


Exactly. That is why I included past tense in the topic. I'd guess superstitious connected royals extended or even attempted to extend their pet beliefs/theories this way in days past.

Last edited by Bubba; 12th August 2016 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 12th August 2016, 06:31 AM   #45
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Well, it depends on what level of government intervention do you require before calling it government sponsored. A lot of rather neutral archaeology is done by universities that just happen to be government funded. Or get a grant from some government agency, just because archaeology doesn't exactly turn a profit.

The USA quite routinely gives such federal grants to public colleges, and I'm not aware of any ideology requirements. Not every penny that comes from a government has to come with strings attached a la Himmler.
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Old 12th August 2016, 09:02 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Exactly. That is why I included past tense in the topic. I'd guess superstitious connected royals extended or even attempted to extend their pet beliefs/theories this way in days past.
Empress Helena:
Quote:
Constantine appointed his mother Helena as Augusta Imperatrix, and gave her unlimited access to the imperial treasury in order to locate the relics of Judeo-Christian tradition.
Does that count? I don't see a fundamental difference between "superstition" and "religion".

ETA: Both in the RCC and in the Greek Orthodox Church, there has been a lively trade in relics. But mostly, people didn't go look for them, but was it simply a case of a counterfeiter putting them up for sale - or an earlier sucker who had bought it - and not a case of someone going to actually dig for them. And of course, all relics of Jesus, the apostles and the many early, historically-tenuous saints, are counterfeits. Not to mention such relics as "the skull of Jesus when he was a child".
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Last edited by ddt; 12th August 2016 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 12th August 2016, 09:12 AM   #47
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Allegedly, Czar Nicholas II sent out an expedition to Mount Ararat in 1916 to search for Noah's Ark. (link)
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Old 12th August 2016, 12:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
That [formerly respectable] Scot archaeologist was horrible at that, and he also employed the ever-popular History Channel/Discovery Channel dodge... "Unfortunately our flights were scheduled for departure but we hope that further exploration will tell us in the future if this was really the Missing Dental Floss Dispenser Of The Last Supper". He did a bunch like that and with "well, the dental floss wasn't here, but there are those crosses in the wall and that article we read in Reader's Digest, so the search will continue...."
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Old 12th August 2016, 01:34 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
a) No.

or

b) I dont know.


Choose wisely
We get to 'choose' if you "don't know" something? I think there are several people here for whom that would be the default wrt you.
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Old 12th August 2016, 01:51 PM   #50
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Paging Scott Wolter...
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Old 12th August 2016, 05:30 PM   #51
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In Raiders, the Nazis were looking for a magical artifact to fuel their war effort, which of course requires belief that such an artifact actually exists. That's a tall order for any government to sustain for a long period of time unless there is a direct political motivation to do so. The case of Helena that ddt brought up is a prime example. She was going to find what she was looking for no matter what, even if she had to forge it. It was about securing Constantine's power base, not about finding some magical artifact.

I think you might find certain monarchs or governments, from time to time, might have sponsored an occasional archeological dig that was of questionable veracity, but I think you would be hard pressed to find many cases of governments actively sponsoring mass archeological endeavors outside of legitimate academic ventures just for the purpose of retrieving "mystical" relics like portrayed in Raiders.
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Old 12th August 2016, 07:32 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by simonxlong View Post
In Raiders, the Nazis were looking for a magical artifact to fuel their war effort, which of course requires belief that such an artifact actually exists. That's a tall order for any government to sustain for a long period of time unless there is a direct political motivation to do so. The case of Helena that ddt brought up is a prime example. She was going to find what she was looking for no matter what, even if she had to forge it. It was about securing Constantine's power base, not about finding some magical artifact.

I think you might find certain monarchs or governments, from time to time, might have sponsored an occasional archeological dig that was of questionable veracity, but I think you would be hard pressed to find many cases of governments actively sponsoring mass archeological endeavors outside of legitimate academic ventures just for the purpose of retrieving "mystical" relics like portrayed in Raiders.

The Indian government or their state governments support archaeology that is in support of 'fundamental' Hinduism. In particular evidence in support of the 'Aryan invasion'.

http://archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/india-denial
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Old 13th August 2016, 12:22 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by simonxlong View Post
In Raiders, the Nazis were looking for a magical artifact to fuel their war effort, which of course requires belief that such an artifact actually exists. That's a tall order for any government to sustain for a long period of time unless there is a direct political motivation to do so.
Well, I don't know about fuelling the war effort, but in the real world the political motivation was there all right. Just like in Constantine's case his whole claim to power was based on Jesus, in the Nazis case their whole claim to power was based on some woowoo racial superiority and perpetual power struggle between the aryans and the semitics. Plus even just the fact that some pretty high up the food chain, like Himmler, were quite the ideological fanatics, was motivation enough to try to prove that ideology right.

And, as I was saying, most of Ahnenerbe archaeological expeditions WERE motivated by trying to prove their ideology right, rather than actually trying to figure out what had actually happened there. They weren't as much interested in finding what battles had happened between the Romans and the Persians in the middle east, as in "finding" that the semitics were to blame for the downfall of the proper aryan Romans.

So I think that IF there had been a credible clue to the location of the ark -- which is a big IF -- they wouldn't need to believe it's actually magical to want it. Just the fact that it was a major artifact of Judaism, around which they could spin their ideology woowoo tales, would have been very much enough.
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Old 13th August 2016, 06:10 AM   #54
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During the early period of the Nazi regime, they sent archeologists to Nordic countries and areas they intended for Lebensraum. The intent was to establish a rational in the past physical culture for German invasion or "reconquest" and to link German culture with the "Nordic" race. It was all shoddy work conducted to provide evidence for a conclusion that had already been reached. The Italians did similar "research" under Mussolini.

Almost no one outside the two countries bought into it but the point was to support the internal messaging that both countries were populated by a master race.
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Old 18th August 2016, 01:55 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
During the early period of the Nazi regime, they sent archeologists to Nordic countries and areas they intended for Lebensraum. The intent was to establish a rational in the past physical culture for German invasion or "reconquest" and to link German culture with the "Nordic" race. It was all shoddy work conducted to provide evidence for a conclusion that had already been reached. The Italians did similar "research" under Mussolini.

Almost no one outside the two countries bought into it but the point was to support the internal messaging that both countries were populated by a master race.
The Nazis went a lot further out then that. They sent expeditions to Tibet to look for Aryan Origins...a pet obsession of Heinrich Himmler.
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:02 PM   #56
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Things that Bubba finds interesting or newsworthy

Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:04 PM   #57
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Oh, please.
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:23 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
Is this intended to inform us, titillate us or scare us?

What's your take? is it true or false?
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Old 11th September 2017, 11:45 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Is this intended to inform us, titillate us or scare us?

What's your take? is it true or false?
My guess is it's intended to get OP some attention.
As usual, he won't participate. He just likes it when people mention him.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:06 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.
There is no evidence she was about to expose big names at the BBC, or that anybody at crime watch was investigating it at all (seeing as that is NOT what Crimewatch does).

Operation Yewtree proves that any conspiracy or organisation has not prevented investigation or arrest.

Crime watch was not cancelled, continued for years, as did other BBC shows like Panorama that have exposed sexual predator networks.

Crime watch spawned at least two spin off shows.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:54 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
Paul "Joseph" Watson is *********** idiot.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:13 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
An OP without any personal viewpoint, or questions, leading only to a youtube clip and without any other substantiation. Yep.............it must be a Bubba thread.
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:36 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.
Never seen Crimewatch. Never heard of Jill Dando. Didn't know about a murder. Didn't know about an expose of big names on BCC or cancellation of a show. Oh, BBC. That's why I've never heard of it.

Quote:
and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.
No.

Quote:
Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.
Twenty six times? Seems like a lot. But Jeffrey Epstein (multi billionaire, pedophile extraordinaire and the love child of Benjamin Netanyahu and Hermann Munster) is the living face of evil. And he and Bill Clinton were buddies. Bill Clinton did fly on Epstein's orgy plane. Maybe was even on orgy island. But allegedly didn't partake in any island festivities.

Our Glorious Leader also gave Jeffrey Epstein a thumbs up and was accused raping a 13 year old girl provided by Mr. Epstein way back in the day. Too bad Hilllary couldn't take advantage of those accusations during the election without exposing herself via her husband to the same. Mutual Assured Destruction is a bitch.

Quote:
London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.
Britain does have it's share of cultural icons who turned out to be life long creeps, doesn't it? Maybe that's why these stories about the Muslim child rape gangs entrenched in the parts of Great Britain that have become more multicultural don't bother the indigenous British.

Quote:
Pedophiles Rule the World
That's an exaggeration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw[/quote]
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:14 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
.........Maybe that's why these stories about the Muslim child rape gangs entrenched in the parts of Great Britain that have become more multicultural don't bother the indigenous British........
Back that crap up.
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:37 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Never seen Crimewatch. Never heard of Jill Dando. Didn't know about a murder. Didn't know about an expose of big names on BCC or cancellation of a show. Oh, BBC. That's why I've never heard of it.

Is this pride in one's ignorance a uniquely American thing?
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:38 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
Ooh! If it's on Youtube, it must be true! I'm almost tempted to watch it.

Almost.
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:40 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Paul "Joseph" Watson is *********** idiot.
A frothing-at-the-mouth, raving lunatic, *********** idiot.

I remember his hilarious videos during the elections where he insisted that Clinton had some terrible disease and was just about to keel over and die. And his videos claiming that a transgender bathroom law would invite all manner of perverts into restrooms to rape little girls.

Yeah, he's insane.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:00 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
What specifically about this do you find credible? Why do you believe this?
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Old 12th September 2017, 11:35 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
What specifically about this do you find credible? Why do you believe this?

One mustn't assume to much. I didnt say I believe it.
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Old 12th September 2017, 11:44 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
One mustn't assume to much. I didnt say I believe it.
No, you never do. Are you Just Asking Questions again?

Do you find it surprising that there are paedophiles in government, the judiciary and in the upper echelons of most/ many churches? If so, why would you expect these institutions to be any different in their concentration of paedophiles than any other profession or walk of life? Given the power that people in high places have, by definition, why would anyone be surprised if paedophiles in high places try to exercise some of that power as necessary to keep themselves out of the arms of the law? Given all of the above, where the **** is the conspiracy?
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:34 PM   #71
Bubba
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post

(Clinton flew) Twenty six times? Seems like a lot.

Not if the flight logs actually say Clinton flew that much. But not to worry, surely President Predator Bill Clinton was aboard only for the ride with his pedophile pal Epstein, to orgy island, in the orgy plane.



Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Pedophiles Rule the World
Quote:
That's an exaggeration.
Where known pedophiles are in power at national level ?

In this video Watson claims to stick with the facts from police and other sources. Some of his key points are known facts.

Here we have in the U.S. and in Europe so called media reporting almost nothing on pedos in power in the face of evidence and numerous victims corroborated statements, and (squashed) investigations. So called media is corrupted/controlled by powerful interests protecting their own. IMO that defines the term fake news. Its surely one of the most covered-up, under reported crimes. Especially where the elite are concerned.

AFAIK only some whistleblowers are giving it the coverage it deserves.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No, you never do. Are you Just Asking Questions again?

Do you find it surprising that there are paedophiles in government, the judiciary and in the upper echelons of most/ many churches? If so, why would you expect these institutions to be any different in their concentration of paedophiles than any other profession or walk of life? Given the power that people in high places have, by definition, why would anyone be surprised if paedophiles in high places try to exercise some of that power as necessary to keep themselves out of the arms of the law? Given all of the above, where the **** is the conspiracy?




Good point. This thread was misplaced. It should be in Politics, or Social Issues & Current Events.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:59 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
.......AFAIK only some whistleblowers are giving it the coverage it deserves.
Well, you know nothing. There is a hugely powerful long term Public Inquiry (it's worth looking up what that means here) into historic child sexual abuse. Here. If you have anything in the way of evidence for your allegations, there is no doubt whatever that they will look into it seriously. This is a multi million pounds a year operation with a wide ranging remit:

Quote:
The statutory inquiry opened on 9 July 2015, with an introductory statement by Dame Lowell Goddard.[8] In November 2015, she announced that 12 separate investigations would be undertaken as part of the inquiry, including investigations into MPs, local councils, and church organisations
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:00 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Good point. This thread was misplaced. It should be in Politics, or Social Issues & Current Events.
How about answering the other points I raised in that quote?
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:00 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
So, Bill's now a Pedo? You must be the first twoofer to believe that.

Pretty sure Lewinski was older than 18, UNLESS "THEY" WANT ME TO BELIEVE THAT!!!!!111!!!one
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:07 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How about answering the other points I raised in that quote?
Quote:
Do you find it surprising that there are paedophiles in government, the judiciary and in the upper echelons of most/ many churches? If so, why would you expect these institutions to be any different in their concentration of paedophiles than any other profession or walk of life? Given the power that people in high places have, by definition, why would anyone be surprised if paedophiles in high places try to exercise some of that power as necessary to keep themselves out of the arms of the law? Given all of the above, where the **** is the conspiracy?

Not surprising at all. Thats the problem ie that they were accustomed to being above the law


Doesnt the word conspiracy apply, if what you described involved two or more people?

Quote:
There is a hugely powerful long term Public Inquiry (it's worth looking up what that means here) into historic child sexual abuse. Here. If you have anything in the way of evidence for your allegations, there is no doubt whatever that they will look into it seriously.
Sounds good. The allegations in the video are apparently well known.

Last edited by Bubba; 12th September 2017 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:14 PM   #77
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Speaking of allegations, this would be one U. S. version of assertions of pedos in power.


Conspiracy Of Silence (The Franklin Scandal)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtstlx96s8M
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:20 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Speaking of allegations, this would be one U. S. version of assertions of pedos in power.


Conspiracy Of Silence (The Franklin Scandal)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtstlx96s8M
Is there no bottom to the ******** you'll link to?

If you want to hang a picture of Ted Gunderson on your "I love me" wall have at it, but these universal pedophile/satanic ritual abuse/child sex slave crap theories don't prove out from the get-go. You'd be hard pressed to cite any provable facts past the legal names of some of the alleged victims and the accused parties.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:29 PM   #79
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Must point out that Trump bragged about going into the Miss Teen USA dressing rooms just to see the under-age contestants nude. So there might finally be a pedo in the Oval Office.
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Old 13th September 2017, 12:58 AM   #80
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How would one know whether this guy Craig Sawyer is getting results / for real?
Veterans vs pedos.

https://www.vets4childrescue.org/

He speaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty1ibQV_Gjk
.
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