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Old 12th September 2017, 06:20 AM   #1
Jim_MDP
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Angry Damned Alt-Med claims...

A new-to-me TV ad caught my attention yesterday at the end when the testimonials section trotted out the old saw... "... and it's completely natural, so I don't have to worry about any side effects."

(I think it was something, something... nerve pain relief.)



That just annoys the crap out of me.

--Side note, my late BIL had an alt-med fan family member recommend Black Salve... don't Google the images after eating.
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:31 AM   #2
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Completely natural like botulinum toxin?
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:32 AM   #3
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Translation: "...it's marketed as a nutritional supplement, so the manufacturer isn't required to tell me about any side effects."
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:50 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Completely natural like botulinum toxin?
That's one of the oddities of the alt-med crowd. There are hat loads of natural things that will kill you. Somehow, those are not included in the alt-med version of "natural". I wonder why.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:00 AM   #5
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I like to recommend a shot of mercury for those who champion pure and all natural supplements.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:07 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I like to recommend a shot of mercury for those who champion pure and all natural supplements.
Mercury is not natural, because...actually, I don't know why.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I like to recommend a shot of mercury for those who champion pure and all natural supplements.
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Mercury is not natural, because...actually, I don't know why.
It's a planet fer chrisakes!
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
It's a planet fer chrisakes!
And an automobile.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:32 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
A new-to-me TV ad caught my attention yesterday at the end when the testimonials section trotted out the old saw... "... and it's completely natural, so I don't have to worry about any side effects."

(I think it was something, something... nerve pain relief.)



That just annoys the crap out of me.

--Side note, my late BIL had an alt-med fan family member recommend Black Salve... don't Google the images after eating.

Yep, no effects means no side effects (or vice versa if you want).
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:33 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Mercury is not natural, because...actually, I don't know why.
He was a natural showman is what he was.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
It's a planet fer chrisakes!
Wrong. It's the messenger of the gods. As any fule no!!!!eleventy!!!
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
And an automobile.
And a Roman God.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wrong. It's the messenger of the gods. As any fule no!!!!eleventy!!!
A telecommunications company as well. Or at least they were. No idea if they still exist.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
A telecommunications company as well. Or at least they were. No idea if they still exist.
And an auto insurance company.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:11 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
A new-to-me TV ad caught my attention yesterday at the end when the testimonials section trotted out the old saw... "... and it's completely natural, so I don't have to worry about any side effects."
Yeah I really hate that claim. A former co-worker of mine also said that natural medecine isn't addictive.

Morons.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Completely natural like botulinum toxin?
Hey it comes from a plant, so it can't harm me. Just like strychnine, cocaine and nicotine.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
And an automobile.
Yeah, but the automobiles were mostly just rebadged Fords.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah I really hate that claim. A former co-worker of mine also said that natural medecine isn't addictive.

Morons.
Oh yeah. Nicotine, cocaine, morphine, all derived from plants, not the least bit addictive.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Oh yeah. Nicotine, cocaine, morphine, all derived from plants, not the least bit addictive.
When I tried to point out that some natural drugs she was using were addictive, she promptly ended the discussion.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Oh yeah. Nicotine, cocaine, morphine, all derived from plants, not the least bit addictive.
Heroin is natural. It must be good.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:35 AM   #21
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Well, at least they don't have any of those nasty chemicals in them.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:43 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
When I tried to point out that some natural drugs she was using were addictive, she promptly ended the discussion.
I often get, "Oh, you know what I mean!"

To which I respond, "I don't think you know what you mean."

And then that ends the discussion.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:47 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Heroin is natural. It must be good.
Heroin is actually not natural. Morphine is, however, once extracted.
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Old 12th September 2017, 10:01 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Heroin is actually not natural. Morphine is, however, once extracted.
Yes, heroin is chemically modified (acetylated) morphine, so morphine good, heroin bad.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:59 PM   #25
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Some of you might remember I have a basket load of health issues. In our homeschooling co-op there are a number of alt med fanatics who seem to have taken me as their pet project. I've been told the following will cure my traumatic spinal cord injury (in no particular order):

Ionic foot bath treatments (um...what?)

Chiropractor adjustments (my neurologist said he would kick me out of his practice if I went to one of these)

A raw vegan diet (I also have celiac and ibs...this would probably kill me)

Various homeopathic supplements including honey bee tincture (I'm allergic to bees)

Prayer (obviously)

Specially charged crystals that cost $500 a piece (I'm on social security...)

Meditation

The laying on of hands by various specialists (please don't touch me)

Etc...Etc...Etc...

Besides the fact that these people are homeschooling their children it bothers me that so many people have so little comprehension of their bodies and medicine. Not to mention all the antivaxxers. Between me with low immunity from various health issues and a little boy in our co op now battling brain cancer, these antivaxxers are going to kill somebody. It isn't right.
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Magrat View Post
Some of you might remember I have a basket load of health issues. In our homeschooling co-op there are a number of alt med fanatics who seem to have taken me as their pet project. I've been told the following will cure my traumatic spinal cord injury (in no particular order):

Ionic foot bath treatments (um...what?)

Chiropractor adjustments (my neurologist said he would kick me out of his practice if I went to one of these)

A raw vegan diet (I also have celiac and ibs...this would probably kill me)

Various homeopathic supplements including honey bee tincture (I'm allergic to bees)

Prayer (obviously)

Specially charged crystals that cost $500 a piece (I'm on social security...)

Meditation

The laying on of hands by various specialists (please don't touch me)

Etc...Etc...Etc...

Besides the fact that these people are homeschooling their children it bothers me that so many people have so little comprehension of their bodies and medicine. Not to mention all the antivaxxers. Between me with low immunity from various health issues and a little boy in our co op now battling brain cancer, these antivaxxers are going to kill somebody. It isn't right.

Yep, I have psoriasis and psoratic arthritis. Back when I was basically covered in plaques it seemed everyone and their uncle (most who I never knew or never knew me) had some common sense, home brew or alt med cure and just had to tell me about it. Even my sister recommended some alt med product to "boost your immune system". Had to explain to her that the psoratic arthritis is my immune system attacking my joints. One girl I was seeing wanted to do some kind of salt rub for the plaques. The rubbing I wouldn't have minded so much but with salt, no thanks.
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:39 PM   #27
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Too much to reply to (I took a nap)... seems I hit a nerve (no pun etc).


Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Yep, no effects means no side effects (or vice versa if you want).
I could be wrong, and I'll update if I see the spot again... but that's a whole other kettle of fish (Homeopathy) and I didn't get the sense that this was one of their products. Just plain ol' "bypass the regs" Nutritional Supplement "medication".

---

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Well, at least they don't have any of those nasty chemicals in them.

Exactly.


---
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah I really hate that claim. A former co-worker of mine also said that natural medecine isn't addictive.

Morons.

Now that's just a 'nuther complete level of stupid.

Completely appropriate place for... "I can't even."
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Magrat View Post
... In our homeschooling co-op ...

Etc...Etc...Etc...

Besides the fact that these people are homeschooling their children
I couldn't possibly reply to all of that just now.. it has me seeing red.

It scares me this end run we've allowed around the proper education of our children (specifically critical thinking) in the name of, primarily... religious freedom.


It's not all bad, or wrong, but somewhere along the way... we let it get out of control.
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:25 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I couldn't possibly reply to all of that just now.. it has me seeing red.

It scares me this end run we've allowed around the proper education of our children (specifically critical thinking) in the name of, primarily... religious freedom.


It's not all bad, or wrong, but somewhere along the way... we let it get out of control.
I don't disagree. I think you should have to pass some basic requirements before homeschooling. You need to at least be able to do the work you will be teaching...I want to cry when I hear another parent mispronouncing the name of a country or inaccurately teaching history (esp when they teach BIBLICAL history instead of things that actually happened) and so on and so forth. I don't think I'm the smartest person ever or something, but I do have an MBA and I was a licensed teacher so I feel confident I can handle my two.

So many (too many) homeschoolers rabidly defend themselves by saying "I know how to teach my kid!" I don't doubt they know their child and want to do the best they can, but the willful ignorance is frightening. How can you teach your child science if you believe in homeopathy? How can you teach history if all that matters to you is the Bible? What about the rest of the world outside your living room?

I'm not perfect but I sure hope my kids never look back and regret being homeschooled. It's been a long, hard road and we are nearing the end (one graduates this year, and the other one three years later).

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack.
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Magrat View Post
... Sorry, didn't mean to hijack.

Meh, I don't mind... it was a throwaway thread because I felt I needed a splenectomy after having that phrase run through my head the fourth or fifth time.

Surprised it got so many replies actually, and strident ones too.

The homeschooling is a bit of a side topic, but not entirely unrelated.
At its' bad end... that's the mentality of this products' target audience.


eta... (derail continues )... Were I to have kids, and homeschool them, I'd actually try to present comparative religion, if requested. Lay it out, discuss it... make an informed choice. But I suspect that would represent an extremely minority position among homeschooling parents.


(Is "homeschool" one word, or two? My auto-correct doesn't like it as one. I guess I fail. )
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:47 PM   #31
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My niece is home schooling her four. They are CHRISTIANs, I don'; think that is the point. I think they do not want their kids to be held back by forced association with the dumb kids. The parents are both lawyers.

I did find them using "chemicals" as a derogatory pronoun, so bought the kids a Molecular Building Block set. I was surprised at how little my niece new about science. Her and her bro went to a special school because of his issues. He tests gifted, works as a janitor.

Personally, I was ho,me schooled too-until they found out I was having sex with the teacher Talk about "issues".
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:01 PM   #32
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What bothers me is the continual rebranding of unproven/discredited treatments in order to lend legitimacy. "Complementary" medicine. "Alternative" medicine. "Integrative" medicine. "Functional" medicine. Even worse than that rebranding is the trend of major medical centers opening integrative or functional medicine wings.

This is nothing more than integrating non-functional sham rituals into real medical practice. Shameful.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What bothers me is the continual rebranding of unproven/discredited treatments in order to lend legitimacy. "Complementary" medicine. "Alternative" medicine. "Integrative" medicine. "Functional" medicine...

This is nothing more than integrating non-functional sham rituals into real medical practice. Shameful.
I think it's more accurate to simply have two distinctions: medicine that works vs. medicine that doesn't.
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Old 12th September 2017, 07:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What bothers me is the continual rebranding of unproven/discredited treatments in order to lend legitimacy. "Complementary" medicine. "Alternative" medicine. "Integrative" medicine. "Functional" medicine. Even worse than that rebranding is the trend of major medical centers opening integrative or functional medicine wings.

This is nothing more than integrating non-functional sham rituals into real medical practice. Shameful.

"Functional" is a new characterization, to me, but I know what you're talking about.

What I've seen mostly is the last decade or so of various "Cancer Treatment Center" and the like TV spots. Much emphasis on spirituality and "alternative" treatment regimens.

I'm not saying emotional support isn't a valuable component, but its become as much a marketing aspect as anything. Helpful to be sure, but also easily abuse-able if it leads to viable treatment being dismissed in favor of "alt-med". Steve Jobs comes to mind, though I'm not up on the details.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What bothers me is the continual rebranding of unproven/discredited treatments in order to lend legitimacy. "Complementary" medicine. "Alternative" medicine. "Integrative" medicine. "Functional" medicine. Even worse than that rebranding is the trend of major medical centers opening integrative or functional medicine wings.

This is nothing more than integrating non-functional sham rituals into real medical practice. Shameful.
You forgot "holistic". Any time I see it I figure the user has a hole where his brain should be.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:31 AM   #36
JJM 777
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Snake venom is completely natural, so you don't need to worry about any side effects.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:07 AM   #37
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Snake venom is completely natural, so you don't need to worry about any side effects.
Since its primary effect in some cases is to kill you, that's literally true.

Dave
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:42 AM   #38
Hellbound
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Heck, I wonder why many never make the connection that those diseases that they're trying to get rid of? Those are 100% natural too.

Nature (red in tooth and claw) has been trying to kill us for as long as we've been around (and before, for that matter).
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Old 13th September 2017, 08:43 AM   #39
CORed
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Originally Posted by Magrat View Post
Some of you might remember I have a basket load of health issues. In our homeschooling co-op there are a number of alt med fanatics who seem to have taken me as their pet project. I've been told the following will cure my traumatic spinal cord injury (in no particular order):

Ionic foot bath treatments (um...what?)

Chiropractor adjustments (my neurologist said he would kick me out of his practice if I went to one of these)

A raw vegan diet (I also have celiac and ibs...this would probably kill me)

Various homeopathic supplements including honey bee tincture (I'm allergic to bees)

Prayer (obviously)

Specially charged crystals that cost $500 a piece (I'm on social security...)

Meditation

The laying on of hands by various specialists (please don't touch me)

Etc...Etc...Etc...

Besides the fact that these people are homeschooling their children it bothers me that so many people have so little comprehension of their bodies and medicine. Not to mention all the antivaxxers. Between me with low immunity from various health issues and a little boy in our co op now battling brain cancer, these antivaxxers are going to kill somebody. It isn't right.
Antivaxers are already killing people. There have been measles outbreaks that have killed children.
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Old 13th September 2017, 10:14 AM   #40
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think it's more accurate to simply have two distinctions: medicine that works vs. medicine that doesn't.
Medicine that works is simply called "medicine".
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