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Tags Catalonia incidents , Catalonia issues , independence movements , separatist movements , Spain incidents , Spain issues , Spain politics

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Old 3rd November 2017, 04:35 PM   #521
Planigale
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
What race?
This is a fair question.

I do not think I could tell the difference between a Tutsi and a Hutu, but they were real enough to perpetrate a genocide, I do not think I could distinguish a Northern Irish catholic from a protestant (apparently it comes down to the letter J), but there is certainly a poster here who will detail the consequences of the difference. Clearly to Iberians, Castillians are different in nature from Catalans.

so we have posters here saying;
"Castilian Spain have sent their unemployed and internal migrants to Catalonia for Catalans to employ and feed them and as a result about half of the make-up of Catalonia's population come from people born in other places of Spain during the last century, hence there are so many "Catalans" against independence (Any Spanish citizen can vote, not only Catalonia's natives. Any person can be polled by Gallup, not only Spanish citizens but illegal immigrants who fear to lose their jobs in an independent Catalonia and will declare to the pollsters to be citizens)
... basically the hard working people (Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Basque Country, Navarra, Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia, Balearic Islands) feeding the imperialists (Castile, mainly Madrid, and Leon) and the any-time-of-day-is-good-for-a-siesta bumps (Extremadura, Andalusia, Murcia, Canary Islands)."

and another poster;
"What is becoming abundantly clear to many Catalans today is that Castilians are, as their historic track record indicates, abusive chauvinists who can brook no challenge to their cultural hegemony, and will use force still now, in the 21st century, with the same sadistic glee they did in the last century and before."

So we have a concept that there are 'proper' Catalans and those that are not proper Catalans and do not support independence. That Catalans are harder working than non Catalan Iberians. That non-Catalans are sadistic and abusive. Some how millions of people are being lumped together as being morally and intellectually inferior (slow learners) to Catalans.

I am not ashamed to call people out on this.

If Hlafordaes has scientific papers to demonstrate that Castillians are slower learners than Catalans then he can reference the papers - this is a skeptic site and people should be called upon to provide evidence of their claims. He can also provide evidence that central tendency is a reasonable way to attribute characteristics to a whole population with no evidence of skew, normality, mono polarity or distribution.
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Old 7th November 2017, 01:33 AM   #522
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Given the doubts above, I'll share a tidbit from something that will be published in a future book. It is the Castilians, I am afraid, who are often quick, in myriad small and large ways, to set themselves apart. This is normally referred to as cultural chauvinism. To wit:

Quote:
That Madrid-Barcelona axis, today loaded with political turbulence, did not garner the reception that the attempt deserved, despite the evident fact that ongoing dialogue between the two cities, between Castile and the coast, between the center and the periphery, has been synonymous with very heartbeat of this complex nation, so fond of football, such that it can be fairly said that this sport is one of the few sentimental bonds that survive intact in this era of frank estrangement.
Catalonia can barely be mentioned by name, just referenced obliquely in this paean to a single place as symbolic of the best of the nation, with the team of one city being held up as a the national team, in spite of their actually being, ahem, an actual national team. There is chapter after chapter like this, all an ode to a mythical, pure center, and the vassals who should willingly fall at their shining feet. The prologue by the King is even more barf-inducing.

Add this to the real, practical example of massively distorted industrial investment policy already provided, and you have more than attitude, you have its praxis as well. This is in addition to cuffing the arrested political prisoners and strip-searching at least two of them, and all the loud chauvinism broadcast on the government news channels any time this topic arises. And, as topping, the many times fascist thugs have been caught on camera in recent weeks surrounding a Catalan and asking him/her to swear loyalty while punching and kicking. Just like Hitler's little friends in brown shirts last century.
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Last edited by Hlafordlaes; 7th November 2017 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 7th November 2017, 06:11 AM   #523
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I heard an interesting little titbit. In one of the Star Trek series, might be Voyager I'm not sure, one of the characters has a Catalan name. That was the only name changed when the series was dubbed into Spanish and broadcast in Spain. Can't have a character with a Catalan name, apparently!
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Old 7th November 2017, 06:14 AM   #524
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Good Lord!

https://twitter.com/CataloniaHelp2/s...50494156066816
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Old 7th November 2017, 10:12 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Has the EU commented yet?

It seems that the EU has been fine with chastising Austria, Poland and Hungary but is shying away from criticism of Spain... why?
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Old 7th November 2017, 10:45 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I see someone is playing semantics to avoid the point.
Person 1: I really dislike people who smoke.
Person 2: That's racist!
Person 1: What the hell does race have to do with this?
Person 3: I see someone is playing semantics to avoid the point.

You don't get to accuse someone of racism unless they're treating an actual ethnic group as inferiors. In some cases, semantics are important.
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Old 7th November 2017, 10:47 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
What's it say?
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Old 7th November 2017, 11:08 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What's it say?
Spanish authorities limit family visits to Catalan Government only once every 3 months
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Old 7th November 2017, 11:13 AM   #529
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Hmmm...
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Old 7th November 2017, 02:28 PM   #530
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Now this.

https://twitter.com/CataloniaHelp2/s...12025698713600

Official documents in Catalonia decreed to be written in Castilian Spanish, not in Catalan. Spain has tried to stamp out the Catalan language before, looks as if it's gearing up for another go. There are reports of Spanish thugs confronting Catalans and demanding that they swear alleigiance to the Spanish state, in Spanish.

This isn't pretty.
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Old 10th November 2017, 02:27 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Has the EU commented yet?

It seems that the EU has been fine with chastising Austria, Poland and Hungary but is shying away from criticism of Spain... why?
Good question. What Spain is doing is antithetical to European espoused values. Spain has locked up legislators for casting a vote.

I'm agnostic on the topic of Catalonian independence. However, to jail a legislator for voting is clearly, just wrong. You can nullify the votes in court. You can nullify the vote through a national assembly. You can ignore the vote. You can't legitimately call yourself a democracy when voting becomes a crime.
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Old 14th November 2017, 12:57 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Now this.

https://twitter.com/CataloniaHelp2/s...12025698713600

Official documents in Catalonia decreed to be written in Castilian Spanish, not in Catalan. Spain has tried to stamp out the Catalan language before, looks as if it's gearing up for another go. There are reports of Spanish thugs confronting Catalans and demanding that they swear alleigiance to the Spanish state, in Spanish.

This isn't pretty.
Is there a more reliable reference than twitter?

My limited search finds that whereas previously all official catalan government documents had to be in catalan and castilian was not allowed (denying language rights to the castilian minority in catalonia?), this rule is now withdrawn and either language is permitted; I can not find that catalan is banned.

However, I can not find a reliable reference, so I may be wrong and am almost certainly inaccurate.
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Old Today, 09:55 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Good question. What Spain is doing is antithetical to European espoused values. Spain has locked up legislators for casting a vote.

I'm agnostic on the topic of Catalonian independence. However, to jail a legislator for voting is clearly, just wrong. You can nullify the votes in court. You can nullify the vote through a national assembly. You can ignore the vote. You can't legitimately call yourself a democracy when voting becomes a crime.
Couldn't agree more.
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Next village up the road, for historical reasons mostly immigrant Castilians, has some of its Catalan neighbors complaining they now fear to walk about the town. In major cities in which Catalans might be found, there have been some very ugly incidents involving fascist thugs in recent weeks. Reminds me soooo much of Paco's Paradise, the Spiritual Reserve of the West, aka, Barf Central.
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