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Old 13th October 2017, 12:46 AM   #81
Scorpion
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You Christians are aware that the Quran is the only perfect book and you are working on it.

Even in this forum, Christian missionaries are trying to prevent the spread of Islam by using different masks.

They promote themselves as if they are not Christians.

Such strategies must be followed because they are desperate in front of the perfection of the Qur'an.

They introduce themselves as members of another teaching.

This is a sufficient proof of the supremacy of Islam.

So you have to play such games Scorpion.

Peace
Yes, the spread of Islam gives me nightmares. Every time I hear some daft white woman has converted to Islam I wish I could have saved her.

As for the Quran being perfect I would regard that statement as a joke if it were not a tragedy.

As I just said I am not a Christian, if I must be labelled I am a spiritualist.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:58 AM   #82
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I wouldn't say Islam is any more inherently evil than Christianity.

'Spiritualists' are equally misguided, there is no more evidence for 'spirits' than there is for any of the so called gods.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:39 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I wouldn't say Islam is any more inherently evil than Christianity.
I have not written a lengthy piece on Islam for a while, but I might write one comparing Jesus teachings with Muhammad's. To do the job properly will require bible quotes and Quran quotes, but I will tell you my conclusions now.

Apart from the much quoted verse where Jesus says he came to bring a sword not peace, the rest of Jesus teachings are largely benign. He teaches love and forgiveness.
But Muhammad's teachings are a totally transparent attempt to scare silly Arabs into fighting his wars for him. He even incites them to die for him.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:58 AM   #84
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Christian missionaries will never accept that they are missionaries. Their aim is to bring you the consistency that they want and they do it with various masks.

In each forum salaried employees work day and night.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:04 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Christian missionaries will never accept that they are missionaries.
Christian missionaries identify themselves as missionaries all the time. It's like you're trying to be as wrong as possible.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:48 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
In each forum salaried employees work day and night.

Oh, you're one of those guys...

We usually get the Christian/nazi/truther versions, but rarely Muslim ones.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:53 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yes, the spread of Islam gives me nightmares. Every time I hear some daft white woman has converted to Islam I wish I could have saved her.
What's with this daft white woman fetish? Why are white women somehow the canary in your balmy coal mine?

Why would you not be equally alarmed by some Indian bloke converting to Islam?
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:35 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I wouldn't say Islam is any more inherently evil than Christianity.
I have made a start at gathering quotes to support my view that Islam is evil but Christianity is not. I could gather more quotes all day but here are some to be going on with.

Here are some quotes from Muhammad in the Quran. As can be seen they are full of violence and fighting.

5.33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

8.12 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans
wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in
every stratagem (of war);

33.61 They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be
seized and slain (without mercy).

47.4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them):

Contrast the above with the teachings of Jesus, below.

Matthew chapter 5

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 13th October 2017 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:42 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have made a start at gathering quotes to support my view that Islam is evil but Christianity is not. I could gather more quotes all day but here are some to be going on with.
I am sure I could find quotes to support the exact opposite view.
I am sure that there are enough quotes in both books to support any view you want.
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Old 13th October 2017, 10:54 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I am sure I could find quotes to support the exact opposite view.
I am sure that there are enough quotes in both books to support any view you want.
No there ain't. The verses I have quoted are typical of the difference between the warmongering trash of Muhammad and the merciful teachings of Jesus.

There is only one verse you can use against Jesus, and that is where he says he came to bring a sword, not peace. But that is such a contradiction to the rest of his teachings, I suspect he never even said it.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:09 AM   #91
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You ignore the Old Testament?
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:16 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Here's a problem with the age of the Earth.

Imagine someone you don't know has put a bowl of random cake mix in the oven and left it cooking. You walk by later and decide it can be taken out because you think it is now ready to eat. So some questions:

1) Exactly when did the cake start cooking? What information do you need to determine your answer? Be as precise as you can.

2) When did the cake finish cooking? Exactly the time you walked by? Ten seconds before that? Thirty seconds before that? It could have cooked for longer maybe? Be as precise as you can.

Go!
Oh my god I came into this thread with some good points and things, but then I saw this.

Someone actually did that at my place during a friend's birthday. Could have killed them.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:22 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You ignore the Old Testament?
What has the old testament got to do with Christianity?

Jesus reformed the teachings of the old testament, like and eye for an eye, and taught forgiveness.

Matthew 5

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 13th October 2017 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:31 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You ignore the Old Testament?
Guess it's also on his ignore list.
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Old 13th October 2017, 11:35 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
What has the old testament got to do with Christianity?

Jesus reformed the teachings of the old testament, like and eye for an eye, and taught forgiveness.
Can you point me at a Christian that believes Jesus retroactively un-did the flood that killed all of mankind except six people?

And were did Jesus teach anti-homosexuality?
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:45 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
What has the old testament got to do with Christianity?

Jesus reformed the teachings of the old testament, like and eye for an eye, and taught forgiveness.

Matthew 5

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Yet the Old Testament is part of the Bible and it is used by Christians as part of their religion.
You can't ignore the genocidal violence in it to make your case against Islam stronger, that would be Cherry Picking.
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Old 13th October 2017, 02:12 PM   #97
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Scorpion:

Earlier in Mat 5 we find:

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:03 PM   #98
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You're nothing but a liar and insidious missionary, Scorpion.

Even if you play such games, it shows once again that you are not on the divine path.

Peace
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:09 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're nothing but a liar and insidious missionary, Scorpion.

Even if you play such games, it shows once again that you are not on the divine path.

Peace
Address the argument, not the arguer.

Getting snippy will only get you in trouble.

PLease explain what exactly is 'The divine path'.
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:20 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're nothing but a liar and insidious missionary, Scorpion.

Even if you play such games, it shows once again that you are not on the divine path.

Peace
Lol. your sky daddy is better than his sky daddy. Why don't you have your gods meet in the car park after school and they can punch it out?

Oh, they don't exist thats why. Funny how humans have to tell other humans what their infallible omnipotent all powerful egos gods actually mean and how theirs is the only one true all powerful deiety. Just because.

Last edited by Hungry81; 13th October 2017 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 13th October 2017, 04:23 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post

PLease explain what exactly is 'The divine path'.

The Divine Way is honest.

It is not based on lies and cheating.
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Old 13th October 2017, 05:27 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're nothing but a liar and insidious missionary, Scorpion.

Even if you play such games, it shows once again that you are not on the divine path.

Peace
But your book is just as bad. Your book is nothing; it's just a bunch of assertions, just like the Quran. If you're going to pick apart "their" book, you need to be able to tear Apart "your" book.
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Old 13th October 2017, 06:25 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Divine Way is honest.

It is not based on lies and cheating.
and what about, say, abusing a child, sexually?
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:20 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I don't use Bibles. We only have the Koran now as a Holly Book.

The evidence shows that, of course.
I, being God, did not dictate, or write hour 'Holly' book. Or Holy book either.

Sorry about that.
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Old 14th October 2017, 06:15 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Divine Way is honest.

It is not based on lies and cheating.
You were asked to define or explain this "divine way," not continue making empty subjective claims for it.
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Old 14th October 2017, 06:45 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Divine Way is honest.

It is not based on lies and cheating.
You may be right, but your problem is you cannot see through the lies of Muhammad, a false prophet if ever there was one.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 14th October 2017, 06:48 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You may be right, but your problem is you cannot see through the lies of Muhammad, a false prophet if ever there was one.
This implies that there is such a thing as a 'real' prophet.
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Old 14th October 2017, 06:50 AM   #108
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The miracles will continue until the beating stops.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:32 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Scorpion:

Earlier in Mat 5 we find:

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
It is not difficult to find gospels’ passages that say one thing and its contrary: To preserve and abolish the Law; to love and to hate enemies, etc. This is the effect of a composition made by many hands and retouches in the background of the evolution of the Christian communities. Consistence is not the main Christian virtue.
I think there is an important difference between Christianity and Islam in the present issue:

Islam was preached by Muhammad in the context of a true fight against actual enemies. Despite some valuable precepts as “there is no compulsion in religion”, the Koran is a warring book. In addition, medieval. Therefore, it is full of brutality.
On the contrary, the gospels are apocalyptic literature. That is to say, Jesus —evangelical Jesus— thought that he was on the earth to predict his imminent comeback accompanied by celestial cohorts. Jesus preached the same brutality as Muhammad —or worse— but not present, but in the end of the times. En attendant, true believers —in any of the diverse Christian versions— have dedicated themselves to some previews of the Apocalypse. Their means were more rudimentary that the final holocaus t —nothing of fire rains or universal floods—, but they did what they could wthin their capacities.

Therefore, it is difficult to say if Islam is worse than Christianity or vice versa. Islam has taken advantage now —with the permission of Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbians—, but the things can change in different circumstances.
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:12 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Scorpion:

Earlier in Mat 5 we find:

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus did not condone the Torah's law of stoning adulterers. He stopped a stoning by telling those without sin to cast the first stone.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:15 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
Jesus preached the same brutality as Muhammad —or worse— but not present, but in the end of the times.
I would like to know where Jesus said anything like the cruel verses of Muhammad.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:22 AM   #112
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There is no evidence outside the Bible itself that Jesus actually existed.
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:36 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
There is no evidence outside the Bible itself that Jesus actually existed.
There are the following references. There is also the matter of the well documented persecution of Christians by Nero in a time which was within living memory of Jesus lifetime. The fact that Christians were ready to die rather than recant suggests Jesus was real.


From the annals of the Roman historian Tacitus. Annal 15:44

15.44.2. But, despite kindly influence, despite the leader's generous handouts, despite appeasing the gods, the scandal did not subside, rather the blaze came to be believed to be an official act. So, in order to quash the rumour, Nero blamed it on, and applied the cruellest punishments to, those sinners, whom ordinary people call Christians, hating them for their shameful behaviour.
15.44.3. The originator of this name, Christ, was sentenced to torture by Procurator Pontius Pilate, during the reign of Tiberius, but although checked for a moment, the deadly cult erupted again, not just in Judaea, the source of its evil, but even in Rome, where all the sins and scandals of the world gather and are glorified.

Pliny the Younger
Pliny was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia, in present-day Turkey. In about 112 AD, he wrote (in Epistles X.96) to the emperor Trajan, asking for advice on how to deal with the Christians in his province, because he was executing so many of them. Pliny wrote:

'They were in the habit of meeting before dawn on a fixed day. They would recite in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a God, and would bind themselves by a solemn oath, not to do any criminal act, but rather that they would not commit any fraud, theft or adultery, nor betray any trust nor refuse to restore a deposit on demand. This done, they would disperse, and then they would meet again later to eat together (but the food was quite ordinary and harmless.)

The following is the text from the works of Josephus that describes Jesus and mentions the crucifixion.
It is considered to be a falsification inserted by the early Christians. Obviously a hand written text could be fixed by scribes at any time in the approximately 1500 years the manuscript existed before printing was invented.
But that is no reason not to give it consideration.

The following text is from Flavius Josephus (c37-100AD)
The Antiquities of the Jews. Book 18.3.3

Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:50 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Bible is not in the market right now. There are many gospels and hadith books that contain human words under the name of the Bible. So the Bible in your hand contains many mistakes, of course
There are religious idiots of many faiths. And Muhammad flew to the heavens on winged horses and the moon is made of cheese. At what point do religious people start using their brains? Muhammad was a pedophile who killed countless people. You have to be a moron to believe in this nonsense. Perhaps this is why the Arabs have invented almost nothing. T
Try reading a science book as opposed to your silly mythology.
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Old 14th October 2017, 09:14 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I don't use Bibles. We only have the Koran now as a Holly Book.

The evidence shows that, of course.
Try reading a science book. You'll be better off.

Here are some recommendations

Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica Isaac Newton 1687
The Origin of the Species Charles Darwinian 1859.

I realize you're stuck in the 7th century. These will get you closer to modernity.

More contemporary
A Brief History of Time Stephen Hawking 2001
The Universe in a Nutshell Stephen Hawking 2010
The Demon Haunted World; Science, a Candle in the Dark Carl Sagan 1997
The Greatest Show on Earth: The evidence for Evolution. Richard Dawkins 2010

Time to get your head out of The Dark Ages
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Old 14th October 2017, 10:25 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Jesus did not condone the Torah's law of stoning adulterers. He stopped a stoning by telling those without sin to cast the first stone.
The incident of the woman taken in adultery (why not one word about the man involved?) is not found in any manuscript for many generations after the fact. It's not original to the context. Other examples of "telling" phrases & incidents which do not appear in the earliest known manuscripts abound.
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Old 14th October 2017, 10:29 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I would like to know where Jesus said anything like the cruel verses of Muhammad.
Luk_14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also..."

Without descending to attempting to "score" one cruelty against another, this is cruelty personified.
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Old 14th October 2017, 10:44 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
for those who say, including the fractions:


Our Earth is 4.57 billion years old

The universe is 13.7 billion years old.


3 times again


Greetings and Love
Well, approximately. And so what?

Hans
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Old 14th October 2017, 10:54 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Luk_14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also..."

Without descending to attempting to "score" one cruelty against another, this is cruelty personified.
You missed off the end of the verse which makes clear he was referring to his disciples.

Luke 14
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:03 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
..Perhaps this is why the Arabs have invented almost nothing.
This is grotesque and shameful. C'mon. Can't you hold your corner without clichéd gumpf?
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