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Old 16th October 2017, 03:31 PM   #121
Jodie
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Imagine if any of you can, what it means to a genuinely psychic child to be brought up by people like you. At some point if they continued to see spirits, you would probably take them to a psychiatrist, who would probably classify them with a mental disease and put them on medication. Then they would not only have their own family treating them as mad but professionals too.

In my experience this entire forum is cluttered with people that have no idea what the truth really is, and I hope your children survive your ignorance.
That said, if a "spirit" world exists that we can't see or measure at this point in time then it is equally dangerous to reinforce that child's perception that she is psychic and seeing dead people. You don't know what she saw, or what forms it could take if she is seeing something, I'm just saying. To encourage this kind of thing could also be just as dangerous for this child in ways we don't understand as it is to totally discount her experience by telling her it's a hallucination or imaginary.
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Last edited by Jodie; 16th October 2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 17th October 2017, 12:58 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
Indeed.
I called and he came. From henceforth I shall be known as, Welshdean the invoker of gods.

Watch this.

Oh great pharoah, immortal son of Amenhotep, rise from your slumber Akenhaten, I command thee.
It's like you're a psychic. This one that didn't work doesn't really count. It doesn't always just work that way. Norse gods are a bit more pliable, while Egyptian gods aren't allowed to just prove their existence on the whim of any one man.
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Old 17th October 2017, 02:16 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There is the matter that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere with our free will, and proving they exist would do that. As far as the spirit world is concerned we on earth are meant to work things out for ourselves.
We incarnate for experience sake and the struggle of life is how we evolve.

If we knew for certain there was a God or an afterlife we would be inhibited in our actions, but it is by our actions we learn by trial and error, through karma over many incarnations.

The spirit world do help people with inspiration, and often people are given ideas they think were their own, but they were actually being inspired.

A medium once gave me a message, and she said, "the spirit world inspired you to paint a blue and white painting, but you did not think much of it".
That was entirely true, and I do not see how a medium could know I painted, let alone that I had recently done a painting in blue and white that I was not satisfied with.
So, spirits are not allowed to interfere with our free will, yet they can "inspire" us. And you have had a spirit directly communicate to you, using language no less! I see a profound conflict here, reading as a desire to have one's cake and eat it too.

Seems these spirits have an impish quality, and the ability to know whom to reveal themselves without at the same time providing evidence of their existence. You know, so as to avoid messing with our free will.

What hogwash.
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Old 17th October 2017, 02:36 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
IDK, Maybe she doesnt want to boast or seem cocky. Or sound like a smart ass.

Each time she said:

Having eggplant ? (yes)

Using blue paint ? (yes)

Is it red? (yes)
How about the times she asked a question that didn't result in a hit, but you forgot? Remembering the 'hits' more selectively because they impress leads to false statistics upon which to hang a proposition. We are all frighteningly prone to this source of bias.
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Old 17th October 2017, 03:04 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by poblob14 View Post
For a couple of days, yeth, but then the doctor gave me thome ointment and it felt better.
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Old 17th October 2017, 09:19 AM   #126
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
How about the times she asked a question that didn't result in a hit, but you forgot? Remembering the 'hits' more selectively because they impress leads to false statistics upon which to hang a proposition. We are all frighteningly prone to this source of bias.
If the answer was 'No' then obviously she was just making conversation and asking questions out of her own normal interest. It's only when the answer is 'Yes' that the question becomes a statement and flawless communication from world's beyond the ken of Man.

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Old 17th October 2017, 01:25 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
It's like you're a psychic. This one that didn't work doesn't really count. It doesn't always just work that way. Norse gods are a bit more pliable, while Egyptian gods aren't allowed to just prove their existence on the whim of any one man.
The gods are not your plaything you know. The spirits won't be tested on the whim of man. As one minor prophet said about some minor nobody god 'And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'
Any way, The Aten is a strange 'un, he and his cohort operate under some sort of pyramid scheme.
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Old 19th October 2017, 12:21 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There is the matter that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere with our free will, and proving they exist would do that.... snip...
Yet they have provided you with winning lottery numbers and other proof of their existence. Why are you an exception to the rules?
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Old 19th October 2017, 01:27 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
As I understand it the spirit world has a hierarchy that is like a pyramid. There are different planes of evolution and in the higher planes the beings there no longer reincarnate. They may be many thousands of years old and they may have completed their spiritual evolution on other planets. I believe Jesus said, " I was with God before the world began" meaning he had completed his evolution on other worlds, and he only came back to teach us.

Some of the higher spirits form a brother hood of administrators that guide human evolution from behind the scenes in subtle ways. The pyramid goes up all the way to the angels, which are a separate species who never incarnate. And at the top of the pyramid is God. The authority filters down from the divine mind through the angels to the advanced souls whose job it is to guide the human race.
Such a lack of imagination. Those 19th century spiritists and spiritualists had the option of creating a whole new mythology, with a vast unexplored spirit realm, that could have been organized in any imaginable way, have many interesting metaphysical attributes and implications, avenues of philosophical exploration, compelling characters, and so on. And what did they end up with?
Watered down Christianity with a little reincarnation and parlor magic tacked on. So uninspired.
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Old 19th October 2017, 03:30 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
...


Fine. There is no repeatable, falsifiable, properly-controlled evidence that anyone is psychic.
That's because science still sucks in these regards...
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Old 19th October 2017, 03:37 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
That's because science still sucks in these regards...
Science is actually ideal for detecting whether such things really exist, or whether the perception that they do is an artefact of well known and well understood cognitive biases. It is, in fact, the only way to distinguish between those two possibilities.
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Old 19th October 2017, 03:48 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
That's because science still sucks in these regards...
Sure. And the reason there's no evidence for unicorns is also that science sucks, not that unicorns don't exist...

To give you a far more serious reply than you deserve: If the phenomenon is real, science as it currently exists could demonstrate it.
It might not be able to discover the actual workings of psychic abilities, but it would certainly be able to test whether or not someone's claims of remote viewing, dowsing, mind reading, etc. are true.

Because if these claims are true, they would produce actual results in a more or less predictable way. If the results we get can't be distinguished from chance, then we don't have a reason to assume we've discovered a mysterious phenomenon.

When the psychic can't read the Zener cards, or find the photograph, or read the word, or find the coin/water/magnet, the most likely explanation is that the psychic does not have the ability they claim to have.

Believers try to weasel out of this by saying that for some reason, these special powers act indistinguishably from random chance as soon as they are observed, either because of pseudo-quantum nonsense, or because the Super Ghost that provides these powers doesn't want to be tested.

"I can't be wrong, the Universe must have intervened to hide my special gift" is never a convincing argument.
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Old 19th October 2017, 03:52 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
That's because science still sucks in these regards...
Yes, it's a pity science socks at detecting things that can't be seen. If it could we might be able to transmit sound or even pictures, talk to each other over long distances or even connect our computers wireless to the Internet. It would change the world.
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Old 19th October 2017, 06:09 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yet they have provided you with winning lottery numbers and other proof of their existence. Why are you an exception to the rules?
As everyone here has pointed out, my subjective experience is not proof of anything to anyone but me. If it were I would have made believers out of all of you with my anecdotes.
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Old 19th October 2017, 06:29 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
As everyone here has pointed out, my subjective experience is not proof of anything to anyone but me.
It's not proof to you either. Subjective experience is never proof of anything to anybody, including the experiencer. At most it's an indication that there may be something going on that's worth studying properly, i.e. in ways which eliminate known sources of error.
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Old 19th October 2017, 06:33 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
As everyone here has pointed out, my subjective experience is not proof of anything to anyone but me. If it were I would have made believers out of all of you with my anecdotes.
AKA, I know my line of bs is pure bunk, but I will wear the hat, goddamit. I WILL WEAR THE HAT.
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Old 19th October 2017, 07:49 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
That's because science still sucks in these regards...
Yes, it always sucks regarding a proponent's particular paranormal fetish.
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Old 19th October 2017, 08:09 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
As everyone here has pointed out, my subjective experience is not proof of anything to anyone but me. If it were I would have made believers out of all of you with my anecdotes.
But the spirit world according to you proved they existed to you, by doing so they broke the rules you claim they have.

So again why did they break their rules and prove to you that they exist?
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Old 19th October 2017, 08:09 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
That's because science still sucks in these regards...
What "regards"?
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Old 19th October 2017, 08:33 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But the spirit world according to you proved they existed to you, by doing so they broke the rules you claim they have.

So again why did they break their rules and prove to you that they exist?
It makes no impact on anyone else to give me personal evidence they are really there, it does not change the rules. The world is not much wiser because of what I say. But I was given some hope at a time when I was broke.

The spirit world works behind the scenes in subtle ways, influencing individuals. They do not have angels open the clouds and blow trumpets.

If you want evidence badly enough and you look long enough, you may find some, but the world at large remains the same. We are here to work it all out for ourselves.
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Old 19th October 2017, 08:44 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
It makes no impact on anyone else to give me personal evidence they are really there, it does not change the rules. The world is not much wiser because of what I say. But I was given some hope at a time when I was broke.

The spirit world works behind the scenes in subtle ways, influencing individuals. They do not have angels open the clouds and blow trumpets.

If you want evidence badly enough and you look long enough, you may find some, but the world at large remains the same. We are here to work it all out for ourselves.
How does being allowed to reveal they exist not change the rule that they're not supposed to reveal they exist? And why wouldn't they be able to reveal themselves to other people who are seeking them out as well?
You appear to be saying that they'll only provide evidence to those who won't scrutinize said evidence too much...
You want to have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 19th October 2017, 09:04 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
How does being allowed to reveal they exist not change the rule that they're not supposed to reveal they exist? And why wouldn't they be able to reveal themselves to other people who are seeking them out as well?
You appear to be saying that they'll only provide evidence to those who won't scrutinize said evidence too much...
You want to have your cake and eat it too.
I don't actually mean that they can never reveal themselves, only that they cannot give certain proof that would change the world. There are many psychic people that know for sure the spirit world exists. But like me not many people believe them, and they are not allowed to give absolute scientific proof.
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:50 AM   #143
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Some of these posts should probably be merged into your spiritualism thread, and I suggest we continue this there.

But basically, becaise you're saying the spirits are not supposed to allow proof of their doings to even exist, there is no way to distinguish between the work of a spirit, a lie, a mistake, a delusion, or random chance...
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:04 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Some of these posts should probably be merged into your spiritualism thread, and I suggest we continue this there.
Done
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 19th October 2017, 01:33 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
It makes no impact on anyone else to give me personal evidence they are really there, it does not change the rules. ...snip...
In other words the rules don't apply to you?

Make your mind up: either there is a rule that say they can't prove their existence or there isn't. Given that they have given proof to you I would say the evidence is that there is no such rule. Perhaps you are mistaken?

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The spirit world works behind the scenes in subtle ways, influencing individuals. They do not have angels open the clouds and blow trumpets.
No they just tell people the winning lottery numbers! That is hardly subtle!
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If you want evidence badly enough and you look long enough, you may find some, but the world at large remains the same. We are here to work it all out for ourselves.
Make your mind up!
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Old 19th October 2017, 08:05 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Imagine if any of you can, what it means to a genuinely psychic child to be brought up by people like you.
Don't know. Their mom was the "witch." They can't even intuit that when the thermostat flashes "OFF" that it might be time to check the switch on the furnace, which I had them turn off because the furnace was running too long into a mild, but triggering, Spring.
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Old 19th October 2017, 09:53 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What "regards"?
For one it demands actual tangible evidence and employs rigorous testing.
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Old 19th October 2017, 10:46 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Make your mind up: either there is a rule that say they can't prove their existence or there isn't. Given that they have given proof to you I would say the evidence is that there is no such rule. Perhaps you are mistaken?
If the spirit world were allowed to give absolute proof of their existence they would have done it long ago. I myself would prove it if I could but they will never let me.

Because the higher powers take the longer view, and they know humanity has to evolve for ourselves. If the existence of the spirit world were proved there would be no point in incarnating at all, as we are all much better off in the higher realms. But we have to evolve for ourselves by free choice. By trial and error, by reincarnation and karma.

I remember the spirit guide of Ursula Roberts saying. "You have to live countless suffering struggling lives". and everybody in the audience groaned.

The spirit world and all the angels do not see suffering as we see it, they see is as a means to an end. They see the eternal picture and that those who die are freed from all earthy pains. We see death as an end, but they see it as a beginning of a new opportunity.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 19th October 2017, 11:11 PM   #149
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What a twisted up thing you've got going in your imagination, Scorpion. Keep going with it though, because the more you post about it the more ridiculous it sounds, and the more likely casual readers are to laugh rather than be persuaded.
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Old 20th October 2017, 02:15 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What a twisted up thing you've got going in your imagination, Scorpion. Keep going with it though, because the more you post about it the more ridiculous it sounds, and the more likely casual readers are to laugh rather than be persuaded.
Twisted or not... most or all of this is far from unique to Scorpion, I'm pretty sure, even if there's a whole lotta different flavors and combinations floating around. Frequently, like Scorpion's seems, it's at least somewhat internally consistent, though, however ridiculous it might look externally.
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Old 20th October 2017, 03:02 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If the existence of the spirit world were proved there would be no point in incarnating at all, as we are all much better off in the higher realms.
Really? Just a little while ago you were saying that evildoers get what they "deserve" in the higher realms. Now you're saying that absolutely everybody is better off once they're gone from Earth. Even though they're no longer allowed to orgasm.
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Old 20th October 2017, 04:28 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
You don't, Buuuuuuut if you give them 20$ per hour they can make an exception.
Ha! In my hometown there are people charging $225 per hour!
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Old 20th October 2017, 04:31 AM   #153
Darat
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If the spirit world were allowed to give absolute proof of their existence they would have done it long ago. I myself would prove it if I could but they will never let me.

...snip....
Yet you claim they have given "absolute proof of their existence" to you. You have a contradiction in your beliefs - you say they can't prove they exist yet you claim they have provided such proof to you.

Again perhaps your understanding of the rules is wrong?
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Old 20th October 2017, 06:57 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yet you claim they have given "absolute proof of their existence" to you. You have a contradiction in your beliefs - you say they can't prove they exist yet you claim they have provided such proof to you.

Again perhaps your understanding of the rules is wrong?
Maybe my understanding is wrong. Anyway I don't think a voice in my head telling me I was going to have a win on the lottery counts as absolute proof.
It is subjective evidence to me but to no one else. Even I have my doubts about it.

If the spirit of Jesus manifested himself in a church and showed the holes in his hands some might think it proof, but the people here would probably say it was a hologram, or a mass hallucination, or everybody present was lying in a conspiracy. Some people would never be satisfied.
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:02 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Really? Just a little while ago you were saying that evildoers get what they "deserve" in the higher realms. Now you're saying that absolutely everybody is better off once they're gone from Earth. Even though they're no longer allowed to orgasm.
The earthy evil actions of some people will mean they find themselves in a dark realm when they die. But it is not eternal and they can choose to progress by reincarnating to settle the karma they have created for themselves.

But for most decent people the part of the spirit world they go to will seem like heaven.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:05 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Maybe my understanding is wrong. Anyway I don't think a voice in my head telling me I was going to have a win on the lottery counts as absolute proof.
It is subjective evidence to me but to no one else. Even I have my doubts about it.

If the spirit of Jesus manifested himself in a church and showed the holes in his hands some might think it proof, but the people here would probably say it was a hologram, or a mass hallucination, or everybody present was lying in a conspiracy. Some people would never be satisfied.
Sensible people will never be satisfied that the supernatural exists as long as there are perfectly adequate mundane explanations for all supposedly supernatural experiences, if that's what you mean. And that is exactly as it should be.
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:13 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Maybe my understanding is wrong. Anyway I don't think a voice in my head telling me I was going to have a win on the lottery counts as absolute proof.
It is subjective evidence to me but to no one else. Even I have my doubts about it.

If the spirit of Jesus manifested himself in a church and showed the holes in his hands some might think it proof, but the people here would probably say it was a hologram, or a mass hallucination, or everybody present was lying in a conspiracy. Some people would never be satisfied.
Yeah, if, if, if. It's very easy to invent an outlandish scenario and poo-poo those nasty skeptics who might deny a miracle that has never taken place...

"You wouldn't be convinced even if I had any evidence" can't be used in lieu of evidence... It is, in fact, an admission that you don't have any and don't expect to ever get any.
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:29 AM   #158
Darat
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Maybe my understanding is wrong. ....snip...
So you don't know if such a rule exists?
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:36 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The earthy evil actions of some people will mean they find themselves in a dark realm when they die. But it is not eternal and they can choose to progress by reincarnating to settle the karma they have created for themselves.

But for most decent people the part of the spirit world they go to will seem like heaven.
So committing evil acts is good because it helps spirits to evolve, but souls who have engaged in them are punished - with the punitive measures being purely for the sake of punishment, retribution and revenge, rather than to help those souls evolve into ones which will no longer commit evil acts. The more you explain about this, the less sense it makes and the less consistent it is.
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:44 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Maksutov View Post
Ha! In my hometown there are people charging $225 per hour!
Shameful. There is a psychic shop that is close to me which has talismans, Gems, oils and every shade of tchotchke woo you can imagine has readings for as low as 20$ an hour, At least that's what the sign advertises.
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