ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 20th October 2017, 09:01 AM   #161
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
So you don't know if such a rule exists?
I have been referring to an overview I developed in the 1970's but now I am re-reading books in my library for quotes.
Here is a quote from the book, 'Spirit teachings' by Stanton Moses.

"Man makes his own future, stamps his own character , suffers for his own sins, and must work out his own salvation."

In other words the spirit world cannot interfere with us too much.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 20th October 2017 at 09:06 AM.
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2017, 11:12 AM   #162
jrhowell
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
"Man makes his own future, stamps his own character , suffers for his own sins, and must work out his own salvation."

In other words the spirit world cannot interfere with us too much.
Where do you get "cannot interfere with us too much" from that? It sounds like "does not interfere at all" to me.
jrhowell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2017, 12:04 PM   #163
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Where do you get "cannot interfere with us too much" from that? It sounds like "does not interfere at all" to me.
If the spirits were not allowed to do anything they would not come back at all so the book, 'spirit teachings' would not have been written.

http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/books/st/spteach.htm
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2017, 12:10 PM   #164
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,916
Can you really not think of a reason why that book might have been written even if spirits don't come back to do anything? Or even exist?
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2017, 12:14 PM   #165
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 79,189
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have been referring to an overview I developed in the 1970's but now I am re-reading books in my library for quotes.
Here is a quote from the book, 'Spirit teachings' by Stanton Moses.

"Man makes his own future, stamps his own character , suffers for his own sins, and must work out his own salvation."

In other words the spirit world cannot interfere with us too much.
Do you now say the rule may not exist?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2017, 12:18 PM   #166
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Do you now say the rule may not exist?
I came to the conclusion that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere in mankind's affairs in the 1970's. It's a long time ago and I can't remember what made me believe that.

I am now looking for references to support that conclusion.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2017, 08:48 AM   #167
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,712
This is how you hypnotize yourself:
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If the spirit world were allowed to give absolute proof of their existence they would have done it long ago. I myself would prove it if I could but they will never let me.
You endow these others with the power to forbid you from evidence that those others even exist.

I would not be surprised if such self-referential loops are a hallmark of schizophrenia*.

(* which condition and history you freely disclosed.)
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2017, 08:55 AM   #168
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,634
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am now looking for references to support that conclusion.
What you should be doing instead is examining the evidence to see what conclusion logically presents itself. Trying to find evidence to support the conclusion you'd like to reach is guaranteed to yield biased, unreliable results.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2017, 10:22 AM   #169
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,646
Quote:
they are not allowed to give absolute scientific proof.
Convenient.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2017, 01:08 PM   #170
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,996
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I came to the conclusion that the spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere in mankind's affairs in the 1970's. It's a long time ago and I can't remember what made me believe that.

I am now looking for references to support that conclusion.
Identity theft exists in all planes of existence. Whatever these critters are, I call them boggarts, they do interfere with us at times and can manipulate our environment including appearing as someone or something else that is either in your memory or existed in the area. I've seen it for myself, although that's no proof, but it was enough to satisfy any curiosity I might have had. I'm happy to live a human life without weird crap going on and I wouldn't encourage this little girl into thinking it's some kind of harmless apparition, it might not be, it could also be something as benign as a figment of her imagination. At any rate, you don't know what you're dealing with so it's not a good idea to give it attention that can be used to fuel the activity whether or not it's imaginary IMO.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2017, 09:33 PM   #171
mikado
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,563
Two questions, if the dead can come back, how the hell can we do anything without bumping in to them at every turn?
And the second more important one, if people get to come back as spirits my dog had better be able to, she's a better person than I ever will be
__________________
member formally known as Renmarkable.
mikado is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 04:29 AM   #172
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Identity theft exists in all planes of existence.
Pure class.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 04:35 AM   #173
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 79,189
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Pure class.
I'm a tad worried, what happens if someone uses my identity to do some negative karma. Am I on the hook if I've not set up a password and two step verification? Who do I contact if I think someone else is using my soul's ID?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 04:55 AM   #174
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm a tad worried, what happens if someone uses my identity to do some negative karma. Am I on the hook if I've not set up a password and two step verification? Who do I contact if I think someone else is using my soul's ID?
Sheesh. We thought security was tough when it was only this plane!

ETA: It's a good thing we have Jodie and PartSkeptic (and Scorpion) to bring us all this important news. Psychocops!
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat

Last edited by Donn; 22nd October 2017 at 04:57 AM.
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 07:25 AM   #175
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,996
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm a tad worried, what happens if someone uses my identity to do some negative karma. Am I on the hook if I've not set up a password and two step verification? Who do I contact if I think someone else is using my soul's ID?
Jesus, Allah, Archangel Gabriel or Michael. I don't think you have to really worry since the omnipotent know who's been naughty or nice and can see thru the BS.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 07:40 AM   #176
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 79,189
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Jesus, Allah, Archangel Gabriel or Michael. I don't think you have to really worry since the omnipotent know who's been naughty or nice and can see thru the BS.
Then how can my identity be stolen?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 08:23 AM   #177
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by mikado View Post
Two questions, if the dead can come back, how the hell can we do anything without bumping in to them at every turn?
And the second more important one, if people get to come back as spirits my dog had better be able to, she's a better person than I ever will be
I believe the spirit world is composed of particles that vibrate at a far higher rate than physical atoms, and it exists in the same proximity as the earth.
The spirits can pass though our walls, but they are invisible to us. They apparently cannot see us clearly, but they can see our auras.

You need not worry about your dog, as all animals have a spirit and live on.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 09:58 AM   #178
P.J. Denyer
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,836
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I believe the spirit world is composed of particles that vibrate at a far higher rate than physical atoms, and it exists in the same proximity as the earth.
The spirits can pass though our walls, but they are invisible to us. They apparently cannot see us clearly, but they can see our auras.

You need not worry about your dog, as all animals have a spirit and live on.
So, particles that aren't physical and vibrations that make things undetectable.....

I can't wait for the verifiable observational data, theoretical framework and suggested experiments to falsify the hypothesis.
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 10:02 AM   #179
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,634
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I believe the spirit world is composed of particles that vibrate at a far higher rate than physical atoms, and it exists in the same proximity as the earth.
If that were true and hadn't been detected by scientific means (which it has not, I'm sure you'd agree), then it would be impossible for it to interact with us at all.

I recommend the following video:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I know it's an hour long, and that's a big ask, but what you have there is a physicist explaining step-by-step exactly why what you're claiming cannot be true, and how we can know that it cannot be true.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 10:07 AM   #180
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If that were true and hadn't been detected by scientific means (which it has not, I'm sure you'd agree), then it would be impossible for it to interact with us at all.

I recommend the following video:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


I know it's an hour long, and that's a big ask, but what you have there is a physicist explaining step-by-step exactly why what you're claiming cannot be true, and how we can know that it cannot be true.
If its the video I am thinking of I have seen it. It cannot be right in my experience, because everything I have experienced tells me the spirit world does exist. Therefore the conclusions of physics must be wrong.

I just tried to view the video but it just shows a black screen, anyway I think I have seen it before.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 22nd October 2017 at 10:09 AM.
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 10:11 AM   #181
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 79,189
https://youtu.be/sq_FhUbWz7k
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 10:26 AM   #182
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Thanks, yes it is the one I have seen before, but as I say the conclusions must be wrong. There must be some way another dimension of spiritual energy can exist.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 11:31 AM   #183
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,365
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Thanks, yes it is the one I have seen before, but as I say the conclusions must be wrong. There must be some way another dimension of spiritual energy can exist.
Why 'must' there be another way? What exactly is so necessary about spiritual woo?
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 11:41 AM   #184
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Why 'must' there be another way? What exactly is so necessary about spiritual woo?
My experience of spiritualist mediums tells me there is a psychic reality, so there must be an explanation why such things cannot be detected by scientific means.

When you think about it God would have known mankind would develop sophisticated understanding of physics, so the psychic must remain undetectable as part of the divine plan.
If we could detect the spirit world by science, the next thing would be mankind trying to take over the higher realms.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 12:03 PM   #185
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
My experience of spiritualist mediums tells me there is a psychic reality, so there must be an explanation why such things cannot be detected by scientific means.
Yes; your explanation is wrong.

Quote:
When you think about it God would have known mankind would develop sophisticated understanding of physics, so the psychic must remain undetectable as part of the divine plan.
Thinking about it does not lead to that conclusion.

Quote:
If we could detect the spirit world by science, the next thing would be mankind trying to take over the higher realms.
There is no spirit world.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 12:11 PM   #186
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,916
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
My experience of spiritualist mediums tells me there is a psychic reality, so there must be an explanation why such things cannot be detected by scientific means.
By far the most likely explanation is that you have misinterpreted your experience.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 01:15 PM   #187
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16,634
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If its the video I am thinking of I have seen it. It cannot be right in my experience, because everything I have experienced tells me the spirit world does exist. Therefore the conclusions of physics must be wrong.
And there you have it, folks. If reality doesn't conform to what Scorpion would like to believe, then it's reality that is wrong.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 01:31 PM   #188
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,916
Pretty much all belief in the supernatural seems to boil down to the assumption that one's own limited, fallible and biased perceptions are superior to decades of careful scientific investigation by humanity's greatest minds. Sheer arrogance, in other words.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd October 2017, 01:34 PM   #189
The Shrike
Illuminator
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,500
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
So, this seemed to start simply enough with my OP. My little 3 year old, Gianna, I believe is a child that has an interesting, colorful imagination. It is enjoyable to be around her because she is creative, curious, and loves images, words, colors and sounds.
She sounds fun! Plus, I've grown nostalgic for toddlers now that mine are rapidly progressing to life on their own.

We also had a "man in the hallway" who scared both of our kids. "He" was a paredolia'd face made out of a pattern of handles on cupboard doors and a drawer. We removed the handles when they told us how spooked they were to walk down that hallway at night. Problem solved.

I have four sibs and grew up in a boisterous house in the country. Despite all that interaction, toddler-me developed a rich fantasy world of one primary imaginary friend and a band of 5 or 6 others. They were all older than me (like teenagers or young-20s), and we would go on adventures, usually when I was playing outside. My parents and sibs knew all about them because I would share elaborate stories of our adventures. One day when I was in kindergarten, my parents realized that I hadn't spoken of them in a while and I matter-of-factly relayed to them that my friends were all dead of snakebite.

Like all other humans ever, I grew up un-psychic. Darn! I have had some really cool deja-vu experiences, though. On several occasions I had a deja-vu that I was having the deja-vu and I knew what was about to happen. My son will also attest that I have an uncanny ability to say something about whatever sporting event we're watching on television only to have my words repeated almost verbatim by the TV commentators. Ooh - I've also two or three times had the "birding" dream in which some bird species you've never seen appears to you in a dream and the next day you encounter that species for the first time. (This is a dream unique to birders, methinks.)

Quirky fun? Yes. Psychic? No.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 01:54 AM   #190
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,372
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Darn! I have had some really cool deja-vu experiences, though. On several occasions I had a deja-vu that I was having the deja-vu and I knew what was about to happen.
I once had a nested deja-vu experience that was seven layers deep. That was genuinely amazing.
__________________
Read my fantasy novel for free!
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 02:03 AM   #191
DevilsAdvocate
Illuminator
 
DevilsAdvocate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,704
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I once had a nested deja-vu experience that was seven layers deep. That was genuinely amazing.
I once ate a whole seven layer deja-vu all by myself. It was genuinely amazing. Or maybe it was a bean dip. I don't remember. I would remember if it happened again.
__________________
Heaven forbid someone reads these words and claims to be adversely affected by them, thus ensuring a barrage of lawsuits filed under the guise of protecting the unknowing victims who were stupid enough to read this and believe it! - Kevin Trudeau

Last edited by DevilsAdvocate; 23rd October 2017 at 02:17 AM.
DevilsAdvocate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 02:13 AM   #192
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,427
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If its the video I am thinking of I have seen it. It cannot be right in my experience, because everything I have experienced tells me the spirit world does exist. Therefore the conclusions of physics must be wrong.
That's what the Muslims, Buddhists, the 9/11 truthers, and Bigfooters believe too.

Meanwhile, science keeps producing testable, reapeatable, usable results. And all the different flavors of superstition have is "Take my word for it".

Well, I can't take everyone's word for it, because you're all contradicting each other. Hell, you are even contradicting yourself all the time.
So thanks, but no thanks. I'll stick with science for describing how the world works.

Last edited by Porpoise of Life; 23rd October 2017 at 02:15 AM.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 03:54 AM   #193
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I once had a nested deja-vu experience that was seven layers deep. That was genuinely amazing.
That must have been cool. Convoluted, but cool.

(Call David Lynch. There's a screenplay in that sucker!)
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 06:24 AM   #194
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,104
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
And there you have it, folks. If reality doesn't conform to what Scorpion would like to believe, then it's reality that is wrong.
Science has not defined reality to my satisfaction, it has just put scientific limits on it. But there is still much that is unknown.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 07:12 AM   #195
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Science has not defined reality to my satisfaction, it has just put scientific limits on it. But there is still much that is unknown.
Yeah, the unknown is unknown. News at 11.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 07:28 AM   #196
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,427
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Science has not defined reality to my satisfaction, it has just put scientific limits on it. But there is still much that is unknown.
"Much is unknown" does not mean "And that means anything I make up goes", nor does it mean "And therefore a lot of things that are known can be ignored and replaced by stuff I like better".

In a different thread, you are arguing against Islam on basis of factual inaccuracies and inconsistencies in their holy book. But any inaccuracy or inconsistency in your own beliefs gets dismissed wih a 'well, that's the spirit world for you... they don't like being held to their word."
You can't see the inconsistency in that approach?

Last edited by Porpoise of Life; 23rd October 2017 at 07:32 AM.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 07:33 AM   #197
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,916
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Science has not defined reality to my satisfaction, it has just put scientific limits on it. But there is still much that is unknown.
The fact that science does not know everything is not an excuse to wilfully ignore what it does know.

It knows that the things you want to believe make no sense, and are unsupported by the evidence that ought to exist if they were true. We even know enough to understand how and why you are managing to fool yourself into believing them.

The gaps in scientific knowledge you are trying to fit your woo into simply aren't big enough for it. They're not even the right shape.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 07:48 AM   #198
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,996
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Then how can my identity be stolen?
The same way someone steals your credit card and uses it. No one is going to stop them, the damage is done, they might get arrested if caught after the fact. It's up to you to protect your identity by taking precautions.

It's the same principle that these Boggarts use by playing on the human's belief that a soul can linger around after death. They take on the identity of someone who is dead for whatever purpose they have, at any rate, the dead don't come back because our identity here on earth is a transient thing ( like taking on a role in a video game).
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 08:03 AM   #199
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,996
I don't understand fully how this might work but I think there are creatures, non human, that live in the same space as we do but on a different "frequency". Some of those creatures seem to be aware of us and prey upon us just as lions prey upon humans if they are hungry. I think they use our memories or memories of what was in an area in the past or will be in the future to set a trap for susceptible humans. Perhaps time functions differently for them and they don't view it as linear?

It's scary if you think about it but I would say the vast majority of us are immune to their influence. Belief may play a part in reinforcing the illusion of a ghost or what we consider paranormal activity. I don't think so called psychics, mediums, or sensitives are "gifted", they are people who have a defect in the spiritual blend of the soul with the body, which I refer to as a leaky ID, and are liable to be mislead by these creatures.

What I call boggarts has historically been referred to as jinn, demons, fallen angels, or what have you depending on what religious beliefs you aspire to but whatever name you give them I believe they've probably evolved right along with us in some kind parasitic fashion in an alternate dimension where time the way we view it isn't relative. I guess they could function kind of like the G'ould in Star Gate only they aren't physically worms that embed themselves on our spinal cord but you see this theme reocurring in the literature enough to wonder about the inspiration for the idea. It also occurs in nature with parasites directing the behavour of ants or forming symbiotic relationships with plants and trees.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd

Last edited by Jodie; 23rd October 2017 at 08:14 AM.
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd October 2017, 08:15 AM   #200
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,634
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Don't Bogart That Joint!

This is very good advice.
__________________
A sentimental materialization of the kind of quasi‐rural bonhomie that seemed a millimeter from actual goose‐stepping and brown‐shirt uproars of bumpkin fascism.

Tom McGuane
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:29 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.