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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:37 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Because nature is simply the sum of all natural processes.
Nature does not have a mind, or a goal, or an idea of balance and order. Those are all human things.
You are anthropomorphizing nature.
Stuff happens because it can, until it doesn't, and that's it.
Sorry but Btw, what I asked in OP? Please tell me years of original introduction of those religions.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:47 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, that is religious history, then. Many religions stem from earlier religions and all the larger ones have a few original ancestors.

Very (probably unreasonably) simplified:

Original Mosaic faith grew into current Mosaic faith, half a dozen Christian directions, and a few Islamic directions.

Hinduism has mutated several times and begat Buddhism, which merged with Old Chinese and spawned Taoism and Shintoism.

.... etc....

Hans
Although History of those religions are given on following links(homeworked) but not sure, if it is original years of their introductions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hinduism

History of 4th one i.e non-religious ones may be infinite.

I think, History of Christianity is bit sure i.e from Ist Century but uncertain in other cases. look:

Quote:
The history of Islam concerns the political, economic, social, and cultural developments of the Islamic civilization. Despite concerns about the reliability of early sources, most historians (non-Muslims)[1] believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the 7th century. Muslims however believe that it did not start with Muhammad, but that it was the original faith of others whom they regard as Prophets, such as Jesus, David, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry but Btw, what I asked in OP? Please tell me years of original introduction of those religions.
No.

So, how about you explain what you meant by
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I expected this question. Nice. Nature also changes due to changes in environment. Differance in Basic and current rules will be like, to travel by walking only and travel by modern vehicle or to remain nude and opt cotton clothes.
Because it looks like you're saying there are clear rules, set by nature, for living a natural and harmonious life.
And that those rules go out the window as soon you run into something 'unnatural' you do not want to give up.

Where do you get your universal rules from, and how come nature seems to adjust them as needed for your convenience?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
It could be clarified by you when you explained your findings.

You tend to ask "why can't .... ?" What exactly do you expect people to do about such a question? It can have a million answers. Do you expect us to rush out and research every time you throw some question up in the air?

Hans
So I done some home-work myself. Refer my last reply.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:50 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
¿Qué?
Welcome.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Crap. Crap, crap and bollocks.

The fundamental laws of nature are written in unchanging numbers. They are equations. They are Newtons Laws, and Einstein's formulae and Planck's and Mendel's work, and and so on, and none of them change. The laws don't change one iota. The laws allow for all sorts of variations within nature.

The ridiculous example you give shows just how little you know about anything, as violence is still used all the time to satiate hunger and sexual wants.
Are you claiming these are a&f. When laws allow for all sorts of variations within nature, how can we say these are constant or basic? It justify my feeling that there can be both nature's origional rules and nature's current rules.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:10 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
What has this to do with religion?

Look, for everybody to actually know what we are discussing here, please state your evidence for claiming that religions are based on nature.
As indicated in other thread I think these in one faith or may be in true religion may justify it. "The true nature of a thing or the intrinsic nature of a substance is its true dharma" and it is principle or medium of motion".

However this is not yet the purpose of OP.

Quote:
The only connection I can see is that primitive religions tend to try to explain things that people don't understand: Weather, disease, fate in general.

Once we move to the larger, theistic religions, they generally only try to explain (or rather explain away as the will of God) fate. Cultures at this point have generally gained at least some grasp of physics and other sciences, and they no longer need demigods or spirits to explain why it rains.


Hans
This can suggest about constant change in nature.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
No.

So, how about you explain what you meant by

Because it looks like you're saying there are clear rules, set by nature, for living a natural and harmonious life.
And that those rules go out the window as soon you run into something 'unnatural' you do not want to give up.

Where do you get your universal rules from, and how come nature seems to adjust them as needed for your convenience?
No. Simple rule of nature may be, "nature balances itself" and whatever happen is to achieve this goal, by creation, maintenance or destruction. It is bit odd to define "unnatural" in real sense.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:14 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Are you claiming these are a&f. When laws allow for all sorts of variations within nature, how can we say these are constant or basic? It justify my feeling that there can be both nature's origional rules and nature's current rules.
The laws don't change, Kumar.

Do you think the laws should change every time there is an earthquake, or a new species emerged, or a species goes extinct? Because by definition, those wouldn't be laws.

I'll not play your silly "a&f" games. That's some sort of mental block that you have personally, but that the rest of the world doesn't recognise.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:15 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No. Simple rule of nature may be, "nature balances itself" and whatever happen is to achieve this goal, by creation, maintenance or destruction. It is bit odd to define "unnatural" in real sense.
Nobody older than about 6 thinks that nature is sentient, has goals, or achieves anything.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:41 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No. Simple rule of nature may be, "nature balances itself" and whatever happen is to achieve this goal, by creation, maintenance or destruction. It is bit odd to define "unnatural" in real sense.
You are saying there are no rules.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:53 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The laws don't change, Kumar.

Do you think the laws should change every time there is an earthquake, or a new species emerged, or a species goes extinct? Because by definition, those wouldn't be laws.

I'll not play your silly "a&f" games. That's some sort of mental block that you have personally, but that the rest of the world doesn't recognise.
Ist, I mentioned rules not laws. 2nd, if laws are such as you claimed, what is the problem in claiming those as a&f?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:05 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The laws don't change, Kumar.

Do you think the laws should change every time there is an earthquake, or a new species emerged, or a species goes extinct? Because by definition, those wouldn't be laws.

I'll not play your silly "a&f" games. That's some sort of mental block that you have personally, but that the rest of the world doesn't recognise.
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
You are saying there are no rules.
No but probably can be only rúles.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:07 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Nobody older than about 6 thinks that nature is sentient, has goals, or achieves anything.
To effect change, above may not be important. Many things change without these.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:14 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
No.

So, how about you explain what you meant by

Because it looks like you're saying there are clear rules, set by nature, for living a natural and harmonious life.
And that those rules go out the window as soon you run into something 'unnatural' you do not want to give up.

Where do you get your universal rules from, and how come nature seems to adjust them as needed for your convenience?
Era, Yuga, epoh, phyenotype changes, Big bang theory etc. with different maniféstations or modifications are índicated. Google séarch will help.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:20 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
No.

So, how about you explain what you meant by

Because it looks like you're saying there are clear rules, set by nature, for living a natural and harmonious life.
And that those rules go out the window as soon you run into something 'unnatural' you do not want to give up.

Where do you get your universal rules from, and how come nature seems to adjust them as needed for your convenience?
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Kumar: We have to live as nature intended!
Someone: You mean naked and without tools?
Kumar: Well, obviously not that, I want my modern machinery!
Someone: So, when did nature change its rules, and how do you know?
Kumar: *gobbledygook*
Yes, therefore I am discussing basic, intermediare and current nature's rules to check to check truth, irrational & rational.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:22 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
No.

So, how about you explain what you meant by

Because it looks like you're saying there are clear rules, set by nature, for living a natural and harmonious life.
And that those rules go out the window as soon you run into something 'unnatural' you do not want to give up.

Where do you get your universal rules from, and how come nature seems to adjust them as needed for your convenience?
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Kumar: We have to live as nature intended!
Someone: You mean naked and without tools?
Kumar: Well, obviously not that, I want my modern machinery!
Someone: So, when did nature change its rules, and how do you know?
Kumar: *gobbledygook*
Yes, therefore I am discussing basic, intermediate and current nature's rules to check to check truth, irrational & rational.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:30 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
........ I am discussing basic, intermediate and current nature's rules.........
There is no such thing, so there is nothing to discuss.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:37 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
What has this to do with religion?

Look, for everybody to actually know what we are discussing here, please state your evidence for claiming that religions are based on nature.

The only connection I can see is that primitive religions tend to try to explain things that people don't understand: Weather, disease, fate in general.

Once we move to the larger, theistic religions, they generally only try to explain (or rather explain away as the will of God) fate. Cultures at this point have generally gained at least some grasp of physics and other sciences, and they no longer need demigods or spirits to explain why it rains.


Hans
I feel, you already accepted that there can be variations due to change of time and environment. I simply want to understand how such variations had influenced principles and practices suggested by any religion at the time of their introduction. One problem may come, few may claim it was much older than its practical introduction or external.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:48 AM   #60
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So you are asking someone to do a treatise on religion since the dawn of time?

Ok, I'll bite.

It's all fairy stories and bollocks.

The end.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:52 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Era, Yuga, epoh, phyenotype changes, Big bang theory etc. with different maniféstations or modifications are índicated. Google séarch will help.
If everything that happens modifies the rules, how can you say that the new situation is unnatural?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:59 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
If everything that happens modifies the rules, how can you say that the new situation is unnatural?
I am saying nothing about unnatural here.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
So you are asking someone to do a treatise on religion since the dawn of time?

Ok, I'll bite.

It's all fairy stories and bollocks.

The end.
I feel, we can still know basics of nature eg traveling by walking, to be nude, free food, free sex, free voilence etc...for basic needs.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:15 AM   #64
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what does any of that have to do with religion?

And whilst you are quite free to walk freely, scavenge for food freely, and have free sex (if you pay it's called prostitution (or marriage maybe)), I'm pretty sure free violence is only a basic need for psychopaths.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:55 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry, this is a secondary issue. Prime issue is (blah-blah snipped)
No. The prime issue is intelligibility. You have none in this thread. You have none in any other thread I've looked at with your babbling posts. Others have tried making allowance for your poor command of English - to no avail. Your posts, and it's therefore likely your thinking, are totally lacking in intelligibility.

Never mind religion, nature, economics, philosophy, etc. for a while. Spend time becoming at least intelligible in English and then try your fallacy salad down the road a ways.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:25 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I am saying nothing about unnatural here.
You can't be serious. You are talking about 'nature's rules', and what they mean, how they change, why they should be obeyed. Something that breaks the rules of nature is unnatural by definition.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:41 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I'll not play your silly "a&f" games.
I apologize if this has been asked and answered somewhere else and I forgot, but ... What is a&f? Abercrombie and Fitch?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:56 AM   #68
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Absolute and final I think.

As in Kumar's sig:

Quote:
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:58 AM   #69
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So, a tangent really but.

The list in the OP says 4million people follow shinto but there are 126million Japanese people, 80% of whom follow Shinto to some degree, it also has some follower in Hawaii.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 07:04 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I apologize if this has been asked and answered somewhere else and I forgot, but ... What is a&f? Abercrombie and Fitch?
It means: *Nanananananananana! I don't have to listen to you!*
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Old 23rd October 2017, 07:56 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I feel, you already accepted that there can be variations due to change of time and environment. I simply want to understand how such variations had influenced principles and practices suggested by any religion at the time of their introduction. One problem may come, few may claim it was much older than its practical introduction or external.
Putting words in my mouth now?

OK, I guess that does it, Kumar.

Hans
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:05 AM   #72
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Unfortunate that the cults of Zeus and Yog-Sothoth aren't on that list.

It's also unfortunate that the top two spots are the biggest troublemakers of the lot.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:20 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Sorry, this is a secondary issue. Prime issue is, which religion basically is based on prime nature's rules and which on intermediate or current nature's rules? For convenience sake, you may consider everything happen by the initiation of nature.

Kumar, "nature's rules" are not rules that you can choose whether or not to obey, and are nothing to do with virtue or morality. If you can do something, it is allowed by "nature's rules"; if "nature's rules" don't allow something it can't be done.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:22 AM   #74
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B-grade western, hardly 19th. century undar standing

Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Huh?
Oh my goodness by damn Jones Bhai! You are bit almost making om pani padme HUMMMMM! This 1st. sound of univarse! Egg coming out of Maha Yoni! (Okey, Maha Lingum go in first before, then egg. Chicken somewhat odd, not impartant here, keep it out of thread or else.) So Hindoo Ism getting it right.

Kumar, how is I am doing? Can?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:27 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Kumar, "nature's rules" are not rules that you can choose whether or not to obey, and are nothing to do with virtue or morality. If you can do something, it is allowed by "nature's rules"; if "nature's rules" don't allow something it can't be done.
This is quite relevant. Few religions, who follow such nature's rules can behave like what you mentioned above. No social binding.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:28 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Oh my goodness by damn Jones Bhai! You are bit almost making om pani padme HUMMMMM! This 1st. sound of univarse! Egg coming out of Maha Yoni! (Okey, Maha Lingum go in first before, then egg. Chicken somewhat odd, not impartant here, keep it out of thread or else.) So Hindoo Ism getting it right.

Kumar, how is I am doing? Can?
This is not primary concern. Please focus on sense not word. a&f ttttttt s&s, FAQ, qed. For odd is not balance. Prime rules from balance, yes, no?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:34 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Unfortunate that the cults of Zeus and Yog-Sothoth aren't on that list.

It's also unfortunate that the top two spots are the biggest troublemakers of the lot.
May one follow gross nature's rules other basic or may One believe in rationals being comparatively gross, other truth being basic.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:34 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
This is not primary concern. Please focus on sense not word. a&f ttttttt s&s, FAQ, qed. For odd is not balance. Prime rules from balance, yes, no?
I'm serious when I ask this . . . Is this thread written by some random word generator?
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:37 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
I'm serious when I ask this . . . Is this thread written by some random word generator?
No, just an attempt to mimic OP's style and general inscrutability. Born out of a combination of bemusement and frustration at my own inability to try and get something that makes sense out of their posts.
Perhaps a bit off topic, I apologise.


ETA: oops, is saw you wrote "thread", and weren't referring to my post specifically. To answer that question: possibly. Homeopathy hasn't come up yet, so that's new.

Last edited by Porpoise of Life; 23rd October 2017 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:42 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
I'm serious when I ask this . . . Is this thread written by some random word generator?
Kumaritis is an infectious disease.
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