ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 26th October 2017, 02:28 AM   #241
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Since science is not yet a&f, we need to understand many many things very badly to make it a&F. May it be in medical or physical science.
How many times have people told you that 'A&F' is bollocks.

Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Don't environment change with the change of time/conditions?

Don't changes in environment changes nature?
The environment is part of nature. You have the VW before the crosstown bus again.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 02:32 AM   #242
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
How many times have people told you that 'A&F' is bollocks.
Not for me. Don't will you wish a&f treatment?



Quote:
The environment is part of nature. You have the VW before the crosstown bus again.
Environment and nature can be interdependent.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 02:43 AM   #243
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Not for me. Don't will you wish a&f treatment?
Wishes are for fairy stories kumar, like homeopathy.





Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Environment and nature can be interdependent.
Er um ok...........
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 03:21 AM   #244
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,694
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Not for me. Don't will you wish a&f treatment?
Oh, you dish the treatment out regularly around here.
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 03:32 AM   #245
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
......3..
#21 is another proverb. On its face it states simple logic. You can't consume something and still have it. You can't have your money and spend it too; if you've spent it you don't have it. (It only applies to things that are consumed, though. You CAN have your book and read it too.)

You answered DEPENDS. Can you clarify what it depends on?
YES, IF WE MAKE FOR OURSELVES WE SHALL HAVE IT BUT IF FOR OTHERS OR FOR SALE, WE SHALL NOT HAVE IT.
#22 is the Pythagorean Theorem, a fundamental finding in plane geometry.

You answered "YES??" Does that mean theorems proven in mathematics are among basic nature's rules? Most skeptics here do regard mathematics as part of (even fundamental to) nature, so you won't get much argument about that.
OKAY.
#23 is a parody of an old proverb/adage/cliché, that I found online. (The original proverb is, "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.") The point of the parody is that the advice in such proverbs often falls short when applied in reality. Persistence has benefits, but how long should one continue to "try, try again" without success? Giving up has benefits too, such as being able to turn to more productive endeavors instead. Meanwhile, Yoda claims, "Do, or do not. There is no try."

You answered NO.

YES IT SHOULD BE TRY TRY AGAIN NOT JUST ONCE. OBVIOUSLY, SOME LIMIT WILL NATURALLY BE SET TILL YOU TIRED.

#24 is an old Vulcan proverb, according to Spock in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. (It was also said repeatedly by humans, prior to that movie, in the real world.) It recognizes a principle of politics and reputation: roughly, that a person who's consistently supported the status quo policy can become a particularly effective champion of a change in that policy.

You answered NO. Proverbs, human or otherwise, don't seem to have a good track record as basic nature's rules. Just as well, probably.
OKAY.
#25 is from the poem "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" by Thomas Gray. The poem meditates upon the "unhonored dead" buried in a rural cemetery after having lived in rural obscurity and poverty. While not phrased as actual advice, Gray seems to express admiration for the rustics' simple stoicism: "Along the cool sequestered vale of life/They kept the noiseless tenor of their way," in contrast to "the boast of heraldry, the pomp of power" among the wealthy, whose path, as the line I excerpted for this list points out, leads ultimately to the same place anyhow.

You answered NO. That's a surprise. Is it not a basic nature's rule that everyone dies? Even if you believe in an afterlife (as the poet certainly did) or in reincarnation, the grave is still part of that path.
NO, I RELATED IT TO GLORY. HOW GLORY CAN LEAD TO DEATH? I HAVE NOT CONSIDERED ANY PROVERB< POEM OR STORY, AS< I DO NOT KNOW THOSE SINCE NOT OF MY PLACE.
#26 is Wolfram's Law of Computational Equivalence, which he first presented in the book A New Kind of Science in 2002. It has not been proven mathematically. It is a conjecture consistent with all available evidence.

You answered "SEEMS YES?" which is very appropriate for an unproven conjecture consistent with all available evidence.

#27 is called Freitag's Law. Like many of the "laws" on this list it's not an actual law but rather good advice. On some days, one might be well advised to consider it carefully before picking up a screwdriver, but more generally it applies to for instance the one person in every office who is not (or should not be) permitted to touch the copying machine.

You answered NO. This disappoints me, because the law's originator is a clever fellow whom I sometimes admire. But maybe the reason is that the recent ubiquity of smart phones has made it one of the least heeded "laws" on this list.

YES, YOU SEEMS TO BE RIGHT. GIVING a 2nd THOUGHT.

#28 was said by Yoda in Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, but it expresses an idea that's found in numerous religions and occult traditions (with the films' Jedi religion being a watered-down version of the latter). That idea is that our true selves are eternal spirits (made of energy, light, vibrations, or some similarly ineffable stuff) only temporarily occupying bodies made of mere crude matter.

You answered "??". I figured you'd answer YES on this one. Perhaps you had difficulty understanding Yoda's unconventional grammar.

BUT WHETHER WE ARE IN ETERNAL FORM OR GROSS FORM, IT WILL MATTER. THEREFORE ??

#29 states the two basic principles of sympathetic magic: the Doctrine of Signatures stating that things that resemble one another affect one another (such as, a voodoo doll used to affect the person it's designed to look like), and the Principle of Contagion stating that things that used to be in contact with one another can continue to affect one another (such as, a bit of a person's hair used in the voodoo doll helping to affect the person because it came from them originally).

Scientifically, these principles are nonsense. They related to straightforward cause and effect, they were true, then that would have long ago been verified by simple experiments. (No, quantum entanglement doesn't count, except in cases where quantum entanglement actually exists, which it does not in the case of e.g. hair clippings or effigies.)

You answered YES. Well, the statement does describe a natural law; whether it's true or not is another matter, and I didn't ask for your opinion on that in this case.

WE DO REMEMBER OTHERS, WHO CAME IN CONTACT WITH US. I CAN"T SAY IF IT CAN RELATE TO SOME CORRESPONDING ENERGY CONCEPT.

#30 is a simple statement of how the natural world works, which science confirms is true. Even if you count humans among "plants and animals," as you should, the energy we use from fossil fuels, which for the time being is accurately described as "nearly all the energy we use," did come from photosynthesis originally. (Nuclear, solar, wind, and geothermal energy are the largest exceptions.)

You answered NO. Really?

HOW NUCLEAR, GEOTHERMAL, GRAVITATIONAL ENERGY CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO SUN ESP. TO PHOTOSYNTHESYS?
----------------------------

In summary, all the items on the list came from sets of rules or laws or principles that people have devised and promoted. In all cases, their originators could make a case for their particular rules being "natural" in some way or another.

That is why you need to be as specific as possible about what you mean when you talk about "basic nature's rules."

From your answers, the rules that you seem to accept most as "basic nature's rules" are the general ones that "reveal" the "true" nature of All Things, enumerated in systems like the Kybalion, various religions (when you happen to agree with them), sympathetic magic, or for that matter the Desiderata. Though you do appear to also include laws of physics and mathematics among them.
I INCLUDED BOTH BASIC AND GROSS NATURE's RULES NOT JUST BASIC IN ANY CONSIDERATION.

The answer to your original question, though, is that the different religions differ greatly between one another in which "laws" they contain. For instance, Christians don't claim that attachment causes suffering; they claim that sin causes suffering. And they don't agree that nothing is at rest and everything moves and vibrates; the Bible claims that God is eternal, and He rested on the seventh day of creation.

THIS MAY JUSTIFY PROBABLY IT CONSIDERED GROSS NATURE'S RULES BY CHANGEING TERM ATTACHMENT TO SIN(MEANING SAME) AND DUE TO CHANGE IN ENVIRONMENT WE ARE NEVER AT REST CURRENTLY. PROBABLY AT ABSOLUTE ZERO THINGS WERE AT REST--BASIC RULE.

Even where there is agreement on principles of advice (such as the Golden Rule), the justifications for those rules differ. The same advice about how to behave might be God's commandment in one religion, a philosopher-sage's assessment of how to organize a stable society in another, a prophet's recommendation for personal happiness in another, and part of the innate fabric of the universe in yet another.

Where do you want to go with this?

DIFFERENCES CAN JUST BE DEPENDENT ON DIFFERENCE IN LEVELS FROM BASIC TO INTERMEDIATE TO GROSS/LATEST/CURRENT IF NOTHING IS INTENTIONALLY LIE OR VESTED SELFISH INTEREST BASED(THIS TOO CAN ALSO COME WITHIN CURRENT LAWS).UNLESS ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS THERE, MULTIPLICITY IN POVS CAN ALWAYS BE THERE EVEN IF ALL ARE TRUE PARTIALLY OR CONDITIONALLY. I GAVE VERY GOOD MANGO TREE EXAMPLE IN THIS REGARD ÉLSEWHERE.
SOME BIG ONE ALSO SAID: HALF TRUTH IS OFTEN A GREAT LIE, SO I ALWAYS PUT EFFORTS TO ACHIEVE A&F TRUTH
Thanks a lot. My reply in capital letters is concluded. You and me put great effots & energy in it but still I enjoyed it. BYE.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.

Last edited by Kumar; 26th October 2017 at 04:29 AM.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 04:23 AM   #246
TubbaBlubba
Knave of the Dudes
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,651
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Hello,

Below is the indicated list of world's 20 largest religions and their number of believers:



It is difficult to discuss about all religions. So we can discuss about Ist four * marked in above list in this thread.

I have posted few posts in other topics, how religions can be different from other and how unnecessary arguments, MPOVs occur?

True religion should mean something auspicious entity or concept and should not attract odds among different people. Just from my POV, I feel, it is the level of suggested principles which should be real reasoning to getting such odds. Level: I mean from Prime/basic to gross/current and intermediate in term of progression of nature. From natural/truthful to modern/rational and intermediate Obsolete ones.

Can you indicate differences in levels in suggested principles in above 4 main religions? Had they suggested principles depended on, basic, intermediate or gross level of nature's state at the time of their introduction?

Please maintain dignity of all religions since real religion should not be odd.

Best wishes.
2.6 million Zoroastrians? Pretty sure that's an order of magnitude too much. 260,000 is more plausible.
__________________
"The president’s voracious sexual appetite is the elephant that the president rides around on each and every day while pretending that it doesn’t exist." - Bill O'Reilly et al., Killing Kennedy
TubbaBlubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 04:27 AM   #247
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Just tell:

Whether basis of Islam can be basic nature's rules whereas gross in case of Christianity? 2000 year may be quite less out of total nature's progression period, so probably it can be taken as gross/latest. If so, it can be thought that difference in these is just the difference of nature's basic rules and gross rules.
What have nature's rules got to do with it? These religions are about supernatural stuff. It's right there in the name.

Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Why can't energy be created or destroyed in practical sense by inter conversion of energy and matter? Definitions of Energy and matter are different.
Energy isn't a thing.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 05:01 AM   #248
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What have nature's rules got to do with it? These religions are about supernatural stuff. It's right there in the name.



Energy isn't a thing.
Whether those were basically be an energetic concept or a physical entity? What was there level in nature, prime or gross?
Since specific religious theological rules can be based on it, it is important to underststand these? Whether those religious resemble nature's rules will be secondary issue.
How it is related to my post?
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 05:06 AM   #249
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Whether those were basically be an energetic concept or a physical entity? What was there level in nature, prime or gross?
Since specific religious theological rules can be based on it, it is important to underststand these? Whether those religious resemble nature's rules will be secondary issue.
Make some sense, please.

Quote:
How it is related to my post?
It was a direct response to a post you made that treated energy as a thing. What confuses you?
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 05:07 AM   #250
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,262
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Whether those were basically be an energetic concept or a physical entity? What was there level in nature, prime or gross?
Since specific religious theological rules can be based on it, it is important to underststand these? Whether those religious resemble nature's rules will be secondary issue.
How it is related to my post?
Theological rules can be based on anything. A magical bearded man turning into an animal and raping women, a magical bearded man castrating his father, a magical bearded man murdering children. A magical bearded man rising from the dead to appease another magical bearded man who is both his father and himself at the same time.
Lots of bearded men basically... And nothing to do with understanding how the world works.

What theology is not based on is 'energetic concepts', whatever that means.
'Prime and gross nature levels' also doesn't mean anything.
You are not making sense Kumar.
Porpoise of Life is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 05:39 AM   #251
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Make some sense, please.
Grossly, I could understand about these two that, At prime level they have some common views but different at gross levels i.e god son vs prophet.If Attachment can be considered as sin, then there will be no issue on it. Other differances, I am not sure. Can you tell few?


,
Quote:
It was a direct response to a post you made that treated energy as a thing. What confuses you?
Thing is nowhere mentioned my quote quoted by you in that post. Anyway, not so important so leave it.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 06:07 AM   #252
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Since science is not yet a&f, we need to understand many many things very badly to make it a&F. May it be in medical or physical science.
How many times must it be explained to you that science will never be "A&F" by definition?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 06:53 AM   #253
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
How many times must it be explained to you that science will never be "A&F" by definition?
But someone topmost confirmed it, here.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 06:58 AM   #254
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Grossly, I could understand about these two that, At prime level they have some common views but different at gross levels i.e god son vs prophet.If Attachment can be considered as sin, then there will be no issue on it. Other differances, I am not sure. Can you tell few?
I asked you to make sense.

Quote:
Thing is nowhere mentioned my quote quoted by you in that post.
Yes it is. You talked about energy being created. You can't create not-a-thing.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 06:59 AM   #255
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
But someone topmost confirmed it, here.
Could you please stop using Google translate? Your posts are nonsensical. Either learn English or go a whatever-your-native-language(s) is(are) forum.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 06:59 AM   #256
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Theological rules can be based on anything. A magical bearded man turning into an animal and raping women, a magical bearded man castrating his father, a magical bearded man murdering children. A magical bearded man rising from the dead to appease another magical bearded man who is both his father and himself at the same time.
Lots of bearded men basically... And nothing to do with understanding how the world works.

What theology is not based on is 'energetic concepts', whatever that means.
'Prime and gross nature levels' also doesn't mean anything.
You are not making sense Kumar.
Ok but can there be prime & secondary gods, godlike god incarnations, godlike god son, godlike prophets, godesses at such different levels, angels, devils, ghosts etc?
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:00 AM   #257
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
But someone topmost confirmed it, here.
Cite that post please.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:08 AM   #258
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I asked you to make sense.



Yes it is. You talked about energy being created. You can't create not-a-thing.
What is the difference in god of these two religions?
Leave it.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:09 AM   #259
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Cite that post please.
You need to follow me. Some other will confirn.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:12 AM   #260
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Could you please stop using Google translate? Your posts are nonsensical. Either learn English or go a whatever-your-native-language(s) is(are) forum.
Third choice will be just to discuss with those posters who can understand me.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:13 AM   #261
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
What is the difference in god of these two religions?
Depends. If we go by the old testament, not a whole lot. Otherwise, they'd pretty different. Again, why do you ask me instead of reading up on those two mythologies?

And why are you leaving out Zeus and Yog-Sothoth?

Quote:
Leave it.
You're the one who brought it up. You were wrong.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:13 AM   #262
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
You need to follow me. Some other will confirn.
Not good enough. You made the claim, you get to provide the citation.

ETA: And why on earth would I follow you?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?

Last edited by abaddon; 26th October 2017 at 07:15 AM.
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:15 AM   #263
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,851
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
But someone topmost confirmed it, here.
No they didn't. You misunderstood, as usual.

What was explained to you multiple times is that the laws of nature do not change. Our understanding of them, however, sometimes changes as we learn more, so we can never be sure that we understand them completely.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

Last edited by Pixel42; 26th October 2017 at 07:17 AM.
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:16 AM   #264
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Third choice will be just to discuss with those posters who can understand me.
Nobody can understand you. With whom will you be discussing?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:16 AM   #265
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,851
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Third choice will be just to discuss with those posters who can understand me.
There are no posters who always understand you. There are a few who can sometimes discern what you mean, though it's always a struggle.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:23 AM   #266
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
No they didn't. You misunderstood, as usual.

What was explained to you multiple times is that the laws of nature do not change. Our understanding of them, however, sometimes changes as we learn more, so we can never be sure that we understand them completely.
No, not this one. Someone something confirmed in A&F in science which will suggest science is also A&F. But it is not commonly accepted here.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:24 AM   #267
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
The hell's A&F?
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 07:29 AM   #268
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
2.6 million Zoroastrians? Pretty sure that's an order of magnitude too much. 260,000 is more plausible.
I just quoted from that link. Sorry, I shall check.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 08:06 AM   #269
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Ok but can there be prime & secondary gods, godlike god incarnations, godlike god son, godlike prophets, godesses at such different levels, angels, devils, ghosts etc?
Kumar, there are no
Quote:
prime & secondary gods, godlike god incarnations, godlike god son, godlike prophets, godesses at such different levels, angels, devils, ghosts etc
Take that as just about as 'A&F' as you can get.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The hell's A&F?
You missed his sig?

Quote:
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 08:14 AM   #270
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
You missed his sig?
I had... but now that you've answered my question, I still have no idea what it means. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 08:18 AM   #271
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I had... but now that you've answered my question, I still have no idea what it means. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
In Kumarese, it basically seems to mean that if something (anything) isn't proven absolutely, 100% beyong any shadow of a doubt, homeopathy works.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 08:23 AM   #272
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
In Kumarese, it basically seems to mean that if something (anything) isn't proven absolutely, 100% beyong any shadow of a doubt, homeopathy works.
Even if homeopathy isn't 100% proven to work absolutely without the shadow of a doubt?
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 08:40 AM   #273
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,073
Oh 4 Pete's sake. (Who's Pete? Not impartant. Leave it.)

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I had... but now that you've answered my question, I still have no idea what it means. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Nobody's easier to understand than Kumar. All he's saying is

I IS RIGHT & U ARE WRONG & I CAN HOMEOPATH IF I WANNA!

Hell's afire, that's all he's ever said.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil

Last edited by sackett; 26th October 2017 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Thick fingers, the sure sign of Powers We Know Not Of.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 08:54 AM   #274
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
No, not this one. Someone something confirmed in A&F in science which will suggest science is also A&F. But it is not commonly accepted here.
You are wrong. Deal with it.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 09:10 AM   #275
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,639
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Even if homeopathy isn't 100% proven to work absolutely without the shadow of a doubt?

See also Jabba's argument for immortality, in which if there is the slightest doubt that we are mortal it is certain that we are immortal.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 09:11 AM   #276
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The hell's A&F?
A&F stands for "Absolute and Final". This is a concept that Kumar has invented out of whole cloth in order to claim that so long as science is not absolute and final then he can insert any old baloney into science. To date, Kumar has not understood that, by definition, science is provisional upon evidence and hence, must accept new evidence when it arises. Thus Kumar considers that his/her unevidenced baloney must perforce be given equal consideration despite the key word "evidence" of which Kumar has none.

Ask Kumar what "TTTT" means. Like many of his random made up acronyms, I have no IDEA. Randomly, when somebody responds, Kumar will make acronyms out of their response just because. And everyone else in thread is expected to keep up because reasons.

Somehow, everyone is supposed to know WTF he is on about, and if you don't you are supposed to absent yourself from his thread.

Does this make a lick of sense? Nope.

Pixel42 seems to have a half a grip on what any Kumar post may mean, which is more than I can claim, but communication or discussion this is not.

What is most annoying is that we know that he is perfectly able to post comprehensible English. Usually, that happens when the pressure is on and somehow, real English emerges as if from nowhere. That has to be a tactic. Not a good tactic, I will grant you.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 09:14 AM   #277
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What is most annoying is that we know that he is perfectly able to post comprehensible English.
Examples?
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 09:19 AM   #278
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Examples?
Sure, but I am sufficiently annoyed with this ongoing behaviour that while I can provide such, I am getting sufficiently to the edge of the MA to step away. Give it a while. Digging that up right now would make me very cross and prone to post something precipitous.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 09:21 AM   #279
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
I was just curious. Don't hurt yourself trying to answer my request!
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2017, 09:28 AM   #280
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I was just curious. Don't hurt yourself trying to answer my request!
No worries. It traverses many threads.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:10 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.